“Bite Off Your Hamster’s Head” Kids Do the Darndest Things

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into the disturbing world of the 764 Group—a cult that originated on Minecraft and Roblox, targeting vulnerable youth through online platforms. They discuss the shocking tactics used by the group, the psychological and societal factors that make children susceptible, and the broader implications for parents and communities. The conversation also explores the intersection of online radicalization, sexuality, and the importance of open dialogue with kids.

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be talking about a Satanic cult that was started on Minecraft by a 15-year-old on

Simone Collins: Minecraft.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, yeah, it grew early on Minecraft and Roblox.

And people can hear about this and they can be like, how bad can it be? Specifically, we’re gonna be going over these 7 6 4 group, which is linked to other groups in the Calm network, like the No Lives Matter movement, the Manic Murder Cult, the Sadistic Manic Cult, the Satanic Front oh goodie and the Mordoff Division.

But anyway. So you might be hearing this and being like, how bad, how bad can this really be? It’s a bunch of children. So I’ll read from an article in Wired and then we’ll get to the article itself, but this is just sort of. Preview of the type of shenanigans they get up to. Okay. Cardin head and other members of this [00:01:00] group would lure young women into video chats and extort them into cutting themselves performing live what’s the word here?

I, I should use actual acts or harming themselves. Eve a girl from the Midwest. When she was younger her, her mother recounted her daughter being drawn into the exploitation network through Gore servers on Discord. Where I’m gonna, just going forwards in this, whenever I’m talking about people who are, below certain age ranges, we’re just gonna use the word chicken instead. Okay. Okay, that sounds good. The word chicken instead. Okay. I think I can handle that. Okay. Where chickens would watch ultra violent content what 7, 6 4 would do is they would go in and drop videos in these groups and try to start pulling kids out of it and into that server.

Before I go further this is actually really interesting before we get into what happened to this girl is, is how they did it. So they take gore and other extreme content. Okay. And they do bit into [00:02:00] things like Minecraft or Roblox or Children’s discord servers.

Simone Collins: Oh. So like Elsa Gate, but on steroids and way worse.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because it’s very intentional. Well, it’s different than that because with Elsa Gate it’s like, oh, this stuff is doing well with kids or anything like that. This is more like if you’re at that edgy phase of like being young, you know, like let’s say you’re like 10 or 11 or something like that.

Yeah. And you’re like, oh, I’m not allowed to talk about this sort of stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, somebody dumps it and you’re like, oh, this is where the edgy cool kids are. Let’s go to their town. Like, let’s go to their server.

Mm-hmm.

So the moderator of 7 6 4 server who went by Brad, one of the aliases connected to Caden head, quote unquote groomed her daughter through false shows of affection and convincing them to send unclosed photographs.

Once they established a degree of trust, Caden and the Exhorters threatened to harm her elementary school aged brother. Or release the explicit photographs on video calls. They would urge her to unli herself and convince her to carve [00:03:00] usernames of members of the server into her skin.

Oh my gosh.

They talk later in the piece that I think like half a decade or a decade later, she still has some of these scars. Oh oh, this is screwed up. They pressured her to strangle her cat and even behead her hamster on camera. Wait, and she

Simone Collins: did it.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, but biting its head off. They said, bite the head off or I’ll f up your whole life.

Oh a username. Felix told Eve on video. Oh. During the police investigation, Felix was an alias associated with the IP address linked to Caden head. Eve did all of this from her bedroom closet. Things took a turn for the worse when she cut herself too deeply one night in the bathtub and turned the waters red, like one of her exhorters had requested.

They also swatted the family’s house and began calling her school and telling the principal she tried to murder animals, prompting school officials to file a report to the police. You just don’t realize how quickly it can happen. Eve’s mother [00:04:00] said, according to her mother, FBI did not reach out to Eve until December, 2023.

The Stevensville Police Department was not aware of Eve’s victimization by Camden Head, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Until two years after his arrest Eve’s mother said, FBI Agents contacted her the following months and asked for details, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, I, I, I skip ahead a lot when I’m reading pieces for stuff you guys don’t care about.

An interview with Canon had gave the probation SER services, confirmed the general details of E story. Bradley did admit to the group’s use of the servers to do that sort of extortion on individuals. That thread said they would do this for money and sometimes just for power over individuals. Oh my

gosh.

And Caden had himself admitted, urging users of the server to carve his initials into their bodies as a form of ho homage, and described his servers as a cult and himself as a venerated leader. Last spring, this guy Caden had, who we’ll get to later, 18 years old, 15 when he started the group, was sentenced to jail for 80 [00:05:00] years.

Simone Collins: Well, okay. At least there was that was Well,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no, no, no. There’s, there’s unfortunately many other individuals in, in, in this group, they we’re gonna be going over a series of the arrests, but you typically don’t know of what they’ve done until after they’ve been arrested.

Simone Collins: I can’t believe So we’re actually talking about this because I heard Catherine d mention it on a blocked and reported episode this morning.

Like I’d never heard of it before and I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it. ‘cause this is so. Grizzly and horrible, and it’s something to which so many of our kids are vulnerable. One thing that’s getting a lot of coverage recently is porta potty pot parties in Dubai. Have you heard of them?

Malcolm Collins: No. Tell me.

Oh, yeah. Well, they take women or whatever to, to explain.

Simone Collins: Well, no, basically, so yeah, like really, really wealthy men in Dubai offer to pay like Instagram models and influencers who are really, you know, like. Attractive women between, you know, tens of thousands to even over a hundred thousand dollars to come out to these really debauched parties where they make them like eat poop and urinate [00:06:00] in their mouths and things like that.

Right? Yeah. But like these are adult women who are making really bad judgements and you know, they’re signing NDAs and they’re making a lot of money from it. And now there are cases of women unliving themselves after this. Or even potentially being, having their lives non consensually ended if they like, refuse to comply during the parties. Like, I’m not saying these don’t go wrong, but this is like women getting themselves into it. Right? It then, but then, then they’re getting a lot of coverage. The fact that this is happening. To young children whose parents think that they’re just having fun on Roblox.

No,

Malcolm Collins: but I, I think that that actually undersells the scope of this. Yeah. If you look at this, there are as many, if not more people in the young perpetrator category. Yeah. I’m talking. You know, around the age of like, let’s say 15 to like 17. Right. Then there are in the victim category. So when you think about your kids and how they get sucked into this mm-hmm.

You [00:07:00] shouldn’t just be thinking about your kids as potential victims. Right. But as potential perpetrators.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And like, again, like there are only so many rich men in Dubai. I mean, there’s a lot Right. That are, that have like, you know, really, really, yeah. Fetishes that they wanna act on and are willing to do it.

Like, but like there, there’s an endless number of screwed up. Adolescents and the fact that, well,

Malcolm Collins: I think all adolescents are intrinsically screwed up.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But now there’s this, this pipeline to like incredibly evil acts.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. But I think the pipeline is actually in a way created by the parents.

And we’ll get to that. A another thing I note here, if you’re like, how is this stuff done at scale in the way it’s, it’s happening. Okay. It is, so later on the, the piece goes, the abuse was systemic and even codified in writing. A user was the alias, convict, circulated. A how-to guide for grooming potential victims that identifies chickens with mental disorders and illnesses as the most susceptible to manipulation.

Oh, of course, the

detailed instructions document how to Fein affection and draw victims into influence. Oh, and then turn attention into [00:08:00] negative enforcement in so self-doubt. In order to bring the person to the edge of a quote unquote borderline episode, the Guide reads quote, when they hit an episode, continue to break them down until they seem defeated in quote.

Simone Collins: That is so sick. Oh yeah. God, how are we on? And, well, I’m glad we’re learning about this as parents.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So I, I, we will go into this as, as we get into specific examples and stuff like that. I mean, people can imagine all the examples end up being somewhat samey, if I’m gonna say, if salacious. But I think it’s more interesting now we’re at the beginning and we’re talking the hook to talk about the theory around all of this and what’s happening in our society.

Okay.

A lot of the pieces on this will be like, this chicken started to engage with online erotic material at like X young age. Yeah. And that material involved Gore. That is how they were brought into these communities. The problem is, is, you know, [00:09:00] when we did our you know, sexual survey for our arousal pattern stuff.

Mm-hmm. One generally if kids are on the internet, they are engaging with erotic material if they are at all counterculture, right? Like that.

Simone Collins: Oh, not even that. I mean, I, I listened to a whole podcast on just those. Those weird mobile ads for games that ultimately are like 100% about fetishes, like foot fetishes and vore and all these things.

Mm-hmm. Like you’ll, you’ll even see it if literally you’re just exposed to mobile game ads. But go on.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, no, I point out with something like Voor or something. In the book, one of the statistics I always loved is the percent of the American population that is aroused by vore, that is people eating other people is larger than the population that lives in the state of Massachusetts, which is like the fifth most populous state or something.

Yeah, to give you some scale, so we’re not talking about, and if you’re talking about. Any of these more you know, sort of, gore related, sadism related. Masochism related. [00:10:00] Like any of the ones, like we’re not supposed to talk about arousal categories. If you put those all together, you’re probably looking at like 25% of the population.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And just to be clear, and this is something that Malcolm emphasizes. Again and again in the Pragma Dis Guide to Sexuality. Just because something turns you on doesn’t mean you morally endorse. It doesn’t mean you practice it, et cetera. Like a lot of these people clearly are going way too far with these, but just because you’re turned on by this doesn’t mean you sh should, can, or even are morally okay with doing this.

Any of that. Okay. But,

Malcolm Collins: but consider what’s happening in these kids’ minds. Mm-hmm. From the perspective of the way the parents have normalized different forms of sexuality and arousal content. Okay. So, yeah. They hit, you know, 15, 16, whatever they start being aroused by things if they all don’t have another explanation for

sure.

And they see stuff, whether it is masochistic related content for many of these young girls, I, I would not be surprised given how common young girl masochists were when I was you know, [00:11:00] like in high school and stuff like that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Cutting was

Simone Collins: so common in my middle school and high school.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Not, not, not even just normal cutting, but I’m talking like more direct mass because at one of the pieces they’re like like he like cut the girl and like drank her blood or something like that. And I’m like, bro, I know so many people who were into like vampire stuff. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, yeah.

At those ages, that’s obvious enough. Yeah. But here’s the problem. It’s the media. And it’s the parents who teach the kids that when what they, the kids don’t realize are fairly common arousal patterns, right? Mm-hmm. When these start to emerge in them they are the only, the only evoke set they have is If I am getting X impulses, I must be an evil satanist, right?

Oh, oh, yeah. Because no one

Simone Collins: has told them that a lot of people feel this way and it. Doesn’t correlate with what you morally condone or Yeah, it doesn’t mean it’s just not in order to act on it. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah. You can, you can feel something. That doesn’t mean you have to act [00:12:00] on it. That doesn’t mean to Yes, but that’s not the way this is contextualized for them.

You’re totally right. Only evil people. Like engaging with this sort of stuff.

Yeah.

And because the kids are taught that at this very young age, when they’re trying to figure out who am I? Right? They don’t know who they are yet. Yeah. They say, well, if only evil people find this stuff alluring, then I am evil.

And then what they do is they begin to Evil Max they begin to take. All of these other things, they associate with vague evilness. So what you’ll notice about these groups is they don’t often have like a coherent ideology. They’re not attempting to achieve any specific end in the world. They’re described as nihilistic, but nihilism is the wrong way to put it because they’re quite agentic for nihilists.

You are right?

Yeah.

They’re not really nihilistic. They have an [00:13:00] agenda. Right. But what the agenda is, is a collection of all of the ideas and motivations and ideologies that society has told them. Whether it’s Nazi ideology or satanic worship, like Nazism and Satanic worship are. Actually pretty antithetical ideologies.

Yes. If you actually look right well, no, no, you see this with the type of like iil who’s like a white nationalist and like a Catholic integralist which is like weirdly common among like the Nick Fuentes crowd because, you know, he’s a Catholic integralist and some people think he’s like white nationalist.

So he and, and these two things are literally directly antithetical. The, the. Kku Klux Klan was specifically interested in wiping out blacks, Catholics, and Jews. Like Catholics were just as bad as blacks to the Klan. Yeah, true. And yet they will identify as that and this other thing because in [00:14:00] their.

Progressive minds. I actually think that this is how people adopt these antithetical ideologies. They grow up in progressive urban monocultural households and they go, what are the most evil groups I could associate with? Oh, let’s go Nazi. KKK, and you know, some extremist religious Christian group.

This very traditionalist, like Catholic nationalism.

Mm-hmm.

And it, it, it forms a completely incoherent ideology. Or you look at these kids who grew up very sort of in more normy families and stuff like that. And it’s okay. What’s the most evil things that could happen? I’m an evil person now.

No, I know that because my entire life I’ve been told that people that wanna engage with X or Y are evil.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or that feel good when exposed to. Well, some form of good aroused when they exposed to X or Y.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And when sometimes it’s not even arousal, sometimes it’s just like, this is interesting to me.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like I was told that this would repel me, and yet I find it curious and interesting and I want to know more.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And they, [00:15:00] they, they assume that’s conflated with them, endorsing it somehow. And it’s not, it’s not,

Malcolm Collins: no. But then they get into communities, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Communities that collect content like this and they share content like this and they want to be involved in those communities, status hierarchies.

Because that’s just sort of naturally what happens to kids. They say, okay. You know, I’m an X or Y group. Now this is a group of people who are like me because my parents are not like me. They have signaled people who like X, Y, Z, they’re, they’re evil. Right?

Simone Collins: Right.

Malcolm Collins: And so I am going to. Try to, because, because our brains, our animal brain is like, okay, who’s your tribe?

They’re like, this is my tribe. What does my tribe do? It tries to get chickens to bite their pet’s head off in, in closets while filming it. Right now I need to do more than that. Like that’s how status is earned within these communities, which, which made the articles go into and I need to do more than that and I need to do more than that, and I need to do more than that.

And people can be like, well, I monitor my kids’ online activity. And it’s like, [00:16:00] you. Cannot fully monitor your kid’s online activity once a kid is 15. If they are a smart kid.

Yeah. When they’re

an agentic kid, which you should hope your kids are.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They will understand technology at a level that you don’t.

Mm-hmm. You cannot monitor a 15 year old’s activity on the internet any more than your parents could have monitored you at 15 on the internet.

Simone Collins: You see that’s a great way of putting it. Yeah, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. You simply know more about how computers work than they do. Mm-hmm. And they will simply know more about how AI and whatever the computers, if tomorrow work and you’re like, well, I monitor they’re a PC and I monitor their phone and I monitor their, their tablet. And I’m like, well, I mean, you do know that you can buy a cheap burner phone for like. 40 bucks, right on like eBay or something that’s a few years old and that can access any discord server, any online forum. They don’t need top of the line hardware for this.

And then you’re like, oh shoot, I hadn’t thought of that. Where would [00:17:00] my kid hide a burner phone? You don’t know where. They’d hide a burner phone. It could be at school. The only way around seeing your kids radicalized is. And people can be like, well, look, in my generation, this is one of the things, and this is why, you know, many people on our, on our show or in our comments know that we are like, look, I’m not saying pornography is like the best thing ever, but I am saying, or even.

Fetishize pornography or, or online, things like that. But I am saying that building too much of a negative stigma around them within the current online social context gives attackers a very easy pathway to your kids. And, and keep in mind it’s not just this type of content. I mean, like, what about furry content?

Like, if, if you tell them that these people are weird degenerates and then they watch something like that, you know, now if you’re adding like, furry stuff, furry stuff in here, you’re not getting like. Yeah, like e every, everything that could potentially be derided by somebody that turns somebody on, you’re getting to like 50% of the population now.

You know? You now they’re like, oh, well I’m a [00:18:00] furry and furries are evil, so I’m gonna do a bunch of evil stuff. And so the question is, is how do you, how do you. Go over this stuff with your kids. Well, one, we offered the Pragma to guide to sexuality for like 99 cents. I think it is a fairly good book that does not glorify arousal or sexuality, but also doesn’t put too much negative stigma.

I will say it has a slight negative stigma throughout the book on it, which is like, humans are gross, humans do gross things. But like you’re still a human. It’s, I think, a pretty good book for parents to go over with their kids in the same way that like, my parents would go over I dunno if your parents did with you, like the, the puberty books that are supposed to teach you about, like,

Simone Collins: oh no, we didn’t do that.

Malcolm Collins: What’s gonna happen at puberty? No. That’s what I’d probably go over with my kids because I think it explains so many aspects of arousal and gender identity in a way that is better than the lgbtq plus community does. From the perspective of. Like some of the things we point out [00:19:00] is that grouping humans into gay or straight as categories basically makes no sense when you consider that.

The number of people who are aroused predominantly by swapped genitals. So by this what I mean is they will find sorry, primary and secondary sex characteristics, primary sex characteristics of sexual characteristics used in the mating process. Secondary sex characteristics are stuff like.

Breasts or hand size or like broad

Simone Collins: shoulders?

Malcolm Collins: Broad shoulders. Right. The, the broadly fear beard form, right? Yeah. So, the percentage of people who are aroused by one set of primary sex characteristics and the other set of secondary sex characteristics is larger than the population that is aroused by, or I think it’s like around the size of the population.

I can’t remember. It is, it’s big to the point where. If you’re talking about the community that arise by matching yet opposite sex characteristics you’re like, oh, this isn’t like a, particularly in terms of unusual arousal patterns [00:20:00] particularly pronounced enough to define it as a totally new type of humanity or something.

And this helps when you’re going through all this with kids because then they’re like, oh, when somebody comes up and tries to feed them this stuff, they’re like it reminds me of when I was a kid. And one of the things my mom did was me. That really helped me not get into drug culture as a kid is when I was younger, she would smoke marijuana with me.

And so, it was a, it was a mom

Simone Collins: thing and therefore a not rebellious thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I thought it was like an old lady thing. Like people would come and they’d be like, and it made it much easier for me to turn them down. Was. Feeling like I’m being excluded. Yeah.

Where they would come and they’d be like, Hey, do you want marijuana?

And I was like, I can always get marijuana from my mom. Like, yeah. Why, why do I want it from you? Your marijuana could be laced with something. Yeah. And this immediately one sort of frames to them, I’m actually way cooler than you. And in a way, cooler environment and household and everything like that.

That’s true. Two. I’m doing it in a subversive way. Like, well, you don’t know what [00:21:00] that’s been cut with. Like how, how reliable is your dealer? How did you source him? Yeah. You know, now all of a sudden you’re coming at this from a totally different Oh, that’s mom stuff. Yeah. And I wanna do that for sexuality with our kids.

Actually, the intro to the pregnant, this guy to sexuality is, we pray that this book ruins or something like that. We’re sorry for this one. It was like that it’s

Simone Collins: dedicated to our children for whom we’ve just ruined sexuality.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But yeah. Anyway. I’m gonna keep going here, but anything you wanna say before I go further?

Simone Collins: No, I, I very much agree with what you say and do think that in that sense, we’re setting up our kids pretty well to be prepared for this though. I like all this sort of like, chat room medicalization stuff. I think Mm, I need to put more thought into that.

Malcolm Collins: Hmm. Oh, there’s just so little you can do. So little you can do.

You really need to give them a good friend network. Work really hard to make sure they have good friends. Mm. Online friends because that’s where their best friends are likely to be, which is why we focus on networking, why we create. You know, the Discord server we have and everything like that, because [00:22:00] I want environments where I would feel safe.

Like I know on the Basecamp Discord server, nobody’s getting groomed. Nobody’s getting radicalized. Like it’s just too diverse in the, in the number of perspectives that are, that are within it. And so it’s a great environment for my kids as they get older.

Mm-hmm. Right.

And, and. I think that what I would, you know, put upon people within the Discord server especially, is when young people are in the server you know, be very supportive and make them feel important.

Because that’s what people, young people especially want from online communities.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Because there is sort of the opposite type of online communities. It’s like, I think Okay. Within limits. The effective altruism slash rationalist community for teens has been really good. Like they’ve jumpstarted their careers, raised money.

Sometimes it doesn’t go so well, but like there are some instances of of teens entering tight-knit communities that start online, that lead them to accelerate their maturation and education and empowerment. So it’s not like it’s all bad. And I just [00:23:00] has to be careful, I guess. I

Malcolm Collins: mean, I don’t think EA communities are safe anymore.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But they used to be, I mean like we met so many young people who were like incredibly mature, incredibly entrepreneurial VI,

Malcolm Collins: literally came out of the EA community. I know. I

Simone Collins: know. It’s just, we’ve also met many young people who have been really nicely shaped by it and the connections I made within it.

So it’s That

Malcolm Collins: was in the last generation.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t think it’s, yeah, I guess not

Simone Collins: anymore, but I’m just saying that there have been historical examples of, of online communities. I mean, I think the

Malcolm Collins: base base camp is the new safe EA community.

Simone Collins: Hopefully,

Malcolm Collins: like that’s, that’s what we’ve been becoming. That’s what the prenatal movements have been becoming.

Because if you go to the normal one, it’s all like AI doism. I have no reason to live anymore. Know that’s very toxic book tour. But anyway, the FBI and other foreign law enforcement agencies are investigating 764 for both.

Simone Collins: Are you trying to find a YouTube safe way to put this?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Chicken meel. [00:24:00] Assault,

Offenses and terrorism because of connections to the Order of Nine Angels, a Satanist cult from Great Britain that has been ever present in the online edge, Lord and militant neo-Nazi circles for over a past decade.

Oh, no watch’s. Nazi memes and acceleration, accelerationist propaganda glorifying homicidal members of white supremacist groups like ANR division frequently appear in the extortion group’s. Telegram shots well. Many users of fear unfamiliar with zero nine a dogma, the sex symbols, text and aesthetic have been widely co-opted within the group for shock value.

The practice of urging victims to injure themselves with cut signs also bears a striking resemblance to oh nine A rituals. Now I’m gonna get into oh nine A, but I think you see the media is misunderstanding what’s going on here. They say they’re getting into this for quote unquote shock value, and I don’t think that’s it.

I think they found one thing interesting and now they assume all things that they’ve [00:25:00] coded negative in their mind must be co coded, is interesting. Mm-hmm. So to continue with a different piece here, ‘cause I’m skipping to a new piece that’s discussing this. Oh nine, A group that they’re affiliated with, a US soldier has been accused of plotting an attack on his own unit by sending information to an obscure Nazi satanist organization called The Order of Nine Angels.

But who are they? I founded in the UK in the 1970s. The ONA is an increasing focus for law enforcement and appears as an influence in several recent UK terrorism prosecutions relating to extreme right wing stuff. And, and again here of course, just whenever they don’t, like, whenever they see Nazis.

Even though Nazis are far closer to modern socialists than anything, right wing hey, they even hate the Jews. You know, they’re

Simone Collins: national socialists.

Malcolm Collins: And a lot of people are like, they weren’t socialists in the way that they’re socialists we talk about today. And I’m like, no, they, no. Literally were socialists in every economic way.

You could use the word socialist. Come on guys. We have another video where we go into that and I might [00:26:00] put just another one, like just how socialists were the national socialists and it is very socialist.

Hmm.

And very anti-Semitic. The National Socialists today, and they divided people based on rights and ethnicity and sexual orientation, just like progressives today.

They’re like, oh, but we do it with different ethnicities. And it’s like, it doesn’t matter, man. It is the dividing humans based on that stuff. So, anyway, I, I consider these groups to be left wing, whatever your politics are you wanna call it. But anyway, continue. So the group at Lionizes the Nazi era and dates its calendar from the birth of Adolf Hitler.

But its supernatural belief system goes beyond anything normally associated with right-wing extremism. So note here, again, I’m saying they’re just trying to evil Max. They, they start their calendar with Adolf Hitler’s birthday, right? In the short term, the goal is to undermine what they characterize as decent Judeo-Christian society.

So note here, I love it that they say that they’re an extreme right-wing group and they are an explicitly anti-Christian group with an emphasis on placed real world attacks. The aim being a new [00:27:00] imperial civilization based on a. Cruel mixture of social Darwinism, satanism, and fascism adherence are encouraged to secretly infiltrate government organizations such as the military or Christian churches in order to destabilize them from within.

Those who progress through the O a’s hierarchical ranks are required to undertake various tasks, including forming their own small groups to prove their leadership abilities. Was a result that a decentralized network of associated bodies exists throughout various countries. There is a total rejection of Essex and some key texts, even discuss virtual sacrifice, both symbolic and actual such groups reject attempts at gaining popular support on the extreme right because they’re anti-Christian.

They’re not right wing at all anyway whether through demonstrations or campaigns and are instead committed to an ideology of so-called accelerationism, which predicts societal collapse and racial warfare, seeking to speed the process up through acts of violence. Well, really what they’re often trying to do is increase speeds and stuff like [00:28:00] immigration and stuff like that.

‘cause they think it’ll lead to social warfare, which they can take advantage of. So they support pretty much only left wing causes, but, okay, let’s. The ideology is promoted in several online spaces, and that is where it blended with ideologies by ONA, giving the latter and increased influence and the further edges of the online community.

The Durham Teen neo-Nazi became, quote unquote, the Living Dead. Somebody said about him. This last year, a 16-year-old British boy became the youngest person to be convinced of planning a terror attack in the uk, and he was influenced by this.

Simone Collins: Goodness gracious.

Malcolm Collins: So we can talk about the 15-year-old who started all this.

Yeah. Can read his Wikipedia. Okay. He was bullied during his high school years. A classmate called him an easy target in his early teens. He suffered multiple psychological breakdowns and was isolated. He told probation officers that he stopped caring about anything, and after dropping outta school at 15, withdrew to his room.

He found the online network and named it after his zip code of his hometown. So that’s, that’s where it is, Steven. [00:29:00] Ah,

okay.

Kahan had noticeably been disruptive as a student. At the age of 10, he was fascinated by graphic online content depicting murder and torture. He assisted principal alerted authorities about him leading to an investigation into terrorist threats.

Despite disciplinary measures, he continued to use school computers to draw images of school. Goul bangings pow POWs like our kid got in trouble for, they say, oh, somebody, he drew a picture of a dead person. But you see, we don’t stigmatize that. Mm-hmm. When our kid does that, we don’t stigmatize it, which means it never becomes alluring to him.

It is boring parent stuff.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, we we’re, we’re not like, that’s an evil thing. That means that you must be an evil person.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I actually talked with the school about this. They’re like, well, I mean, look at all these raising rights of violence in schools and stuff like this. Why do you want to normalize this for your kid?

And I go, those rates have have occurred. In correlation with the resilience, with the rate that you have [00:30:00] not normalized this behavior in young boys. He can’t talk about guns. He got in trouble for talking about a nuan school. He can’t draw. People who are are, are dead. He can’t draw people with a gun. He can’t draw people with a knife.

I was like, when can he draw like Roman soldiers in a battle or something like that? It it like, how old did he have to be? And they’re like, well, I don’t think. Even in high school, you’d be allowed to do that today. And I’m like, well, do you know how often men think about Rome? You know, how many times a day, you know, you, you are suppressing completely normal thoughts in his head, which leads to radicalization.

And, and when we talk about like, just how, how far this goes Jason Curo, who is a judge who was going over him, said of him in court, there is something horribly wrong with you horribly. Where it’s like they’re looking at stuff that they haven’t bench lined. They don’t know the percent of young boys who find this type of thing interesting.

And they just assume because it’s not normalized in their communities. And keep in [00:31:00] mind how much you chill out as an adult. Okay. And as a young kid, there were many times where I was like, well, who am I? Like, am I evil because of X? Like, am I supposed to lean into that because and I think this is a really, really toxic thing to teach young people.

Simone Collins: Agreed. Totally.

Malcolm Collins: And you can see here the nihilism that is pervasive in many young kids makes this easier. But nihilism in use has always been a thing. Like people were like, come on. Yeah. Young kids in the nineties weren’t nihilistic. I was like, okay, what a you. You literally went from like the goth who were incredibly nihilistic.

The emos who are like a different. Brand of nihilism.

Simone Collins: Yeah. To

Malcolm Collins: the vampire kids who were yet a different brand of nihilism.

Speaker: Okay. Different how they’re, you know, one is good and, and Emos are horrible. They’re, you know, they’re posers. Emos suck my golf balls. Alright. Alright. Think of it this way. A golf [00:32:00] believes that deep down the world is totally up, but an emo thinks that deep down they are totally. That’s not much of a difference.

Speaker 3: That’s a huge difference. Okay. Okay. Look, emos are more prone to suicide this b***h man. But goths are more prone to be depressed that so many people commit suicide go’s. Darkness is nihilistic, whereas Emos is cynical. Wait, I thought we were cynical. Well, well, whatever. It doesn’t matter. No. Say you’re nihilistic.

Oh yeah. You.

Simone Collins: Yeah. This is just so normal. You’re going through it with adolescents, it’s, it’s gonna happen. And then on top of that, I mean, you also point out like, you know, a lot of this is based on people sort of realizing there are, they’re aroused by stuff.

Your arousal levels, especially if I think you’re an adolescent male, are at their peak during these years. They’re out of control. So even people who are adults were like, oh yeah. I mean, I guess I could kind of see no man, like it must be so much stronger for what they’re experiencing as well.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. If you go going into other [00:33:00] choice pieces from this this is about another user.

Mm-hmm.

And 2021, according to court records, Alameda posted a photograph of a bound in gag, half dressed chicken with a caption. Life’s always been. S**T still I see passed through rose colored lenses.

Simone Collins: Oh, this is so sick. Oh.

Malcolm Collins: And yeah, they were talking about how on the other guy’s phone they found 20 images of his, his online moniker carved into people that they had carved into themselves.

And in this other one they’re talking about, this guy was showing that there were at least multiple chicken victims who he had got to engage in, in acts,

Simone Collins: gosh, that’s so screwed up.

Malcolm Collins: But the problem with when I read all of this is they keep collating normal teenage behavior. With evil behavior, even in the way [00:34:00] that this stuff is covered.

And it’s just, you know, oh, you drew people fighting, you know, and you’re a young boy, that must mean you’re a psychopath. It’s like, no, you know, you wanted to have secret fights with other kids, or you wanted to,

Simone Collins: yeah. I mean, how, how did this founder ultimately get all this time alone in his room to learn how to radicalize and then torture chickens?

It was because he was first bullied and then kicked outta school and then treated like some kind of pariah. You’re absolutely right. I mean, this didn’t have to happen. Yeah. I mean, he, he might’ve been a little weird always. I, I doubt that he wouldn’t be right, but it didn’t have to be like this.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, you see how easy it’s to radicalize, like you saw the, the people who are radicalized into the Charlie Kirk shooting, and they all come from Mormon communities.

Mm-hmm. And then are exposed to alternate sexual identities and immediately their brain goes crazy. Right? Like, if, if, if you do not vaccinate your kids against this and you cannot vaccinate somebody with hate, [00:35:00] hate actually makes it easier for them to flip. Yeah. ‘cause the moment they engage with somebody and they’re like, oh, this person isn’t evil, like my parents said, then they throw out every other warning.

You came about that group of people.

Simone Collins: Well, and you also can’t vaccinate your kids if you don’t vaccinate your kids. Meaning that if you just shelter them and are like, well, we’ll just keep you away from those people.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: It’s not gonna protect them. And you’re

Malcolm Collins: like, well, you’ll future enough. The thing about the Charlie Kirk shooting with Tyler Robinson is, he didn’t radicalize until he was, what age age was he when all this happened? Like 19 or something? Yeah. I

Simone Collins: mean, well into his college career it seems, when he started living on his own.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is when I think a lot of parents think that you’re safe.

Right,

Simone Collins: right. Like you’ve left the nest. I, I’ve done my job. It is all good now.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And so this is just a conversation that I think within the, the, the circles of society that we plan on continuing to survive that like really, really needs to be had. What’s actually fascinating about it is, I [00:36:00] think it’s also how, because you saw this with the Tyler Robinson shooting and everything like that is originally he and his partner had at different times been when they killed Charlie Kirk, they were left wing radicals.

Mm-hmm. But they had been interested in Right, right-wing ideas beforehand. Like there’s. Forum posts about them complaining about white discrimination. We know that the trans roommate of the shooter was really into Jordan Peterson. He, he even apparently was into that till the end. You know, and, and I wouldn’t say Jordan Peterson is radicalized, but you know what I mean.

Like, they, they’re involved in sort of these edgy forums. And I do think that some, you know, young people get involved in conservative circles. Because they were raised by urban monoculture parents. In the same way that we need to worry about our kids joining a Satanic sex cult. They have to worry about their kids joining, you know, our sorts of circles.

But the problem is, is when they join and then they become growers. And this is what I think you need to, like, recognize when you’re, when you’re talking about any of this, is that did you mean

Simone Collins: to say

Malcolm Collins: gripes, griper, [00:37:00] whatever they’re called.

Simone Collins: Sorry. Someone in the comment had noticed that the last time you did this, I mean, it’s, it’s obviously tradition for you to things I love, but the point

Malcolm Collins: being is that the people who go in right wing message boards and are like, yeah, we actually should like hate the Jews, or, you know, we actually should you know, hate gay populations or we actually should you know.

By the way, Charlie Kirk was not saying that stuff. He was saying, the Bible says that you shouldn’t do this stuff. Mm-hmm. He wasn’t saying that you should hate these people.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And yet these people come into our spaces and you need to see them as being no different than these people on the left.

They, they aren’t really part of the wider ideological movement. Like, oh yeah, we really should you know, create you know, like an all white nation or something like that. Right. Like, these individuals are, just our community sort of ticks, like their community has ticks and they can grow and radicalize people into becoming shooters.

Like just, what was it recently? There was a shooting [00:38:00] at ICE or something. A a against, not the ice officers this time, but against the migrants. Right. And so it is our job to prevent that by pointing out how pathetic these individuals are and there isn’t really a coherent philosophy behind what they believe.

Yeah. It’s just that their parents told them these things were naughty, and society told them these things were naughty and now they think they’re being cool by doing. Yeah. It, it’s

Simone Collins: philosophically vacant. Edge lords desperate for attention. It is the most thirsty and sad thing you can ever do.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And, and this is something that we’ve promoted on other recent podcast, is the topic of post racism, which I think we as a society need to move towards, which is.

The old definitions of racism and non racism, they don’t really matter anymore. Everybody could say, oh, you are racist, or You are racist. By the nineties definition, it’s like, whatever. Like clearly the wokes have some new definition of what racist is. And clearly the right is like, I don’t even see why we’re like focused on this word when, you know, whatever.

You know, the [00:39:00] definition seems of fluid and I think that post racist is a good concept, which is just to say you recognize that groups are different. But like. Focusing on every edgy way in which they’re different is not a productive conversation for anyone. And you’re not really sharing information that anyone who’s interested in learning it does, isn’t already aware of.

Yeah. You, you just you know, serve to, well basically masturbate online. Like that’s what you’re doing. You’re like, look at how edgy I am. Look at how edge I am. Look, I know information I’m not supposed to know. Which is one of the things that we always try to avoid doing on this podcast. Yeah. When we, when we try to do something edgy, it’s because we’re asking a question that other people haven’t asked, and you need to say what we’re saying on this.

Podcast is quite edgy for the conservative audience that we have which is you need to normalize fetish porn. You don’t it’s, and it’s not necessarily fetish porn, but I’d say fetish arousal patterns, like unusual arousal patterns, just be like, weird things are gonna turn you on. That’s totally normal.

That’s [00:40:00] not because you were abused as a kid. We’ve, we’ve actually pointed out. In a lot of our research, there’s not strong correlation between a lot of this and abuse. Like, like it’s not that abuse doesn’t affect sexuality at all. It can like make you more like hypersexual and stuff like that, but it doesn’t focus whether or not weird things are gonna turn you on.

Mm-hmm. It appears to just be random genetics. Mm-hmm. And that’s, that’s really all there is to it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s not about your choice. You don’t get that choice. What you do get to choose is, is how you act on it and how you deal with it. And yeah, there, there are productive ways to handle this and I think, you know, the most productive way depends on the time and context.

And so I think that many religions, like historical religions methods for dealing with these things may have made sense in those historical contexts, but those coping mechanisms don’t work in the modern age when there are internet forums and discord servers and telegram groups, et cetera. Where things go off the rails.

You know, it may [00:41:00] work in like a small village with no telecommunications. We don’t live in that age anymore. But that is, yeah, God, it’s just terrifying. I didn’t know this was a thing. I, I just can’t believe that people are, you know, up in arms about Dubai’s port-a-potty parties when

Malcolm Collins: this is, they don’t care.

No kids going cra Yeah. No, that doesn’t, yeah. Like

Simone Collins: meanwhile, their kids are in a closet biting off their hamster’s heads and carving usernames into their skin and no one’s talking about it. I mean, I guess you said that wired heads done a beast, but Catherine d when she mentioned it. Had said actually coverage on this is, is just pretty dismal.

Like very, very few outlets are actually covering this and actually going into this and it’s a serious issue. I’m sure when they, their way

Malcolm Collins: right wing extremism.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I

Malcolm Collins: don’t know actually,

Simone Collins: no. She cited that there was one really conservative outlet that has actually done some of the best reporting and that she was really loathed to, to admit it, that she never would admit it if the reporting weren’t really good.[00:42:00]

So.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, there’s that.

Simone Collins: I, I appreciate that. Well,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, it’s an anti-Christian group, so

Simone Collins: Yeah, maybe that’s actually why mainstream media isn’t covering it as much, just because they’re like. Eh, you know, Satanists,

Malcolm Collins: whatever, like trying to take over churches, I guess. Yeah. That word. Yeah. They do them.

Simone Collins: Yeah, sure.

Whatever. But, wow. Yikes. Thanks.

Malcolm Collins: Love you to Decone. Have a spectacular day. And don’t join a Satanist cult. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah, you neither. And let’s maybe talk to our kids about this.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. Just and, and again, if you’re like, well, what do I do? The Pragma Guide to Sexuality, the audio book, the book, we make them super cheap, easily accessible and it is a good, like, honest sexuality book and sexuality is the number one way that kids are radicalized.

Simone Collins: Yeah, there you go.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, love you to death.

Simone Collins: Love you too. And by the way, thank you so much for, I mean, since [00:43:00] 2:00 AM handling temperamental

Malcolm Collins: well, you’re pregnant, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah. But. I feel guilty and grateful and they clearly feel super comforted by you and it was so nice of you to go down and make sure they’re okay and clean up messes well,

Malcolm Collins: I’m glad I, I fooled them into thinking I’m a nice guy.

You know, the kids are, kids seem to like me. I, no, they adore you. This is but poor judgment of character on their part. I’ll tell you what, just ‘cause I’m their dad, I’m okay.

Simone Collins: You are a safe place for them. And they love it and they love getting, I dunno, I’ve

Malcolm Collins: read the news. Apparently I beat them. This is they beat

Simone Collins: you more.

Let’s be honest. They beat you more. Yes. The best moment ever was when we had that journalist over and we were showing them like how completely unafraid they were of us by like going to like s slap their face, but then like stopping our hands right there. And they like don’t react at all and they just think it’s really funny and then they.

Went to do the same thing to you later and you like [00:44:00] flinched big time because both of us are covered in bruises from them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They they’re, they’re attack children. This is what they, I there was the one video at the end of one of the videos recently where the kids were coming after me and. They all got together like a pack and they were being very aggressive and I felt like I had like a pack of like wild animals chasing me around.

It’s like

Simone Collins: that scene in Jurassic Park with the, you know, that little, like the, the guy’s like, oh, they’re just little tiny, you know, like SSIR raptors. Like not a problem. But then they start flocking and he’s screwed.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And that

Simone Collins: as soon as we get to kid number five, I mean, it’s good to get to a point where you are genuinely scared for yourself.

Oh,

Malcolm Collins: absolutely. Well, you are happy.

Simone Collins: Actually, we’ve already reached number five

Malcolm Collins: in a few days, so. Oh, we gotta have enough backlog, right? That you guys don’t miss a day.

Simone Collins: Not a day. Yeah. And who knows how much I’m gonna hemorrhage out in this one. So we gotta Did you hemorrage last time? I lost, I lost. I mean, you always lose a lot of blood when you do these, but like with some c-sections, you [00:45:00] can lose a lot, a lot of blood.

I, I, I shouldn’t, but like, you know it, who knows? I, I try to get out of the hospital. You don’t be lost by

Malcolm Collins: cutting off your finger.

Simone Collins: I know, man, that cut the tick inside of my finger. Let’s go. You ready?

Malcolm Collins: Oh. How did the episode today do?

Simone Collins: It went well. I think people really enjoyed it. We, we today ran the episode on survey stats showing the differences between Gen Z, male and female, Trump and Harris voters.

People found it telling, they found it interesting. People had interesting things to say about their thoughts about whether and when there will be a debt jubilee how Gen Z is going to fare through the collapse and the disruption. So it’s just, it’s a very thought provoking. Topic that I think is also very much top of mind for so many people.

As we’re clicking our way to the top of a rollercoaster right now, waiting, waiting for our stomach to up, what happens? [00:46:00] Alright. Yeah.

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