Andrea Samadi revisits her 2019 conversation with neuroleadership pioneer Friederike Fabritius to explore practical neuroscience strategies for better productivity, well-being, and workplace happiness.
On this episode, we’ll learn:
✔ Why only 20% of people feel passionate about their jobs, and what we can do to change that.
✔ How to use neuroscience to reach peak performance or flow with your work.
Neuroscientist and neuroleadership pioneer Friederike Fabritius shows ...
Andrea Samadi revisits her 2019 conversation with neuroleadership pioneer Friederike Fabritius to explore practical neuroscience strategies for better productivity, well-being, and workplace happiness.
On this episode, we’ll learn:
✔ Why only 20% of people feel passionate about their jobs, and what we can do to change that.
✔ How to use neuroscience to reach peak performance or flow with your work.
Neuroscientist and neuroleadership pioneer Friederike Fabritius shows us how three simple ingredients—FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS—can help us find flow and peak performance at work. We’ll also explore why men and women often respond differently to stress, how to identify your unique neurosignature, and practical ways to design a workplace (and a life) that helps your brain thrive
✔ Learn the three key ingredients for flow—fun, fear (challenge), and focus—how the stress–performance curve affects apathy and burnout.
✔ Why tailoring roles to individual neurosignatures (dopamine, serotonin, testosterone, estrogen) can unlock peak performance.
Welcome back to SEASON 14 of The Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast, where we connect the science-based evidence behind social and emotional learning and emotional intelligence training for improved well-being, achievement, productivity and results—using what I saw as the missing link (since we weren’t taught this when we were growing up in school), the application of practical neuroscience.
I’m Andrea Samadi, and seven years ago, launched this podcast with a question I had never truly asked myself before: (and that is) If productivity and results matter to us—and they do now more than ever—how exactly are we using our brain to make them happen?
Most of us were never taught how to apply neuroscience to improve productivity, results, or well-being. About a decade ago, I became fascinated by the mind-brain-results connection—and how science can be applied to our everyday lives.
That’s why I’ve made it my mission to bring you the world’s top experts—so together, we can explore the intersection of science and social-emotional learning. We’ll break down complex ideas and turn them into practical strategies we can use every day for predictable, science-backed results.
For today’s Episode 373, we continue our journey into our mind with the next interview review. Just a reminder-this review series began back with Episode 366[i], where in Part 3 we discovered an important lesson: if we don’t like our results—or what we see on the outside—we need to shift our mindset and look within. True change always begins on the inside.
We moved onto EP 369[ii] we learned how to Rewire our Brain with Dr. Dawson Church and his Bliss Brain Meditations, and then EP 370[iii] with John Medina’s Brain Rules, where we reviewed how important this understanding of neuroscience is, especially connected to education, teaching and learning.
Next we went deeper into our mind and brain with EP 371 and 72 where we with clinical professor of psychiatry from UCLA’s School of Medicine, Dr. Daniel J Siegel and his Mindsight concept, which is the same idea as Theory of Mind, or seeing the mind in another. All of these episodes are helping us to further sharpen of minds and brains, and connect better with others, for improved productivity and success in our work and personal lives.
For today’s EP 373, we go back to EP 27[iv], recorded October 2019, with pioneer in neuroleadership, neuroscientist, Friederike Fabritius[v], from Germany. On this episode, we covered her book, The Leading Brain: Neuroscience Hacks to Work Smarter, Better and Happier.
Friederike returned again to the podcast, for EP 258[vi] recorded in November 2022 advancing our conversation with her next book, The Brain Friendly Workplace.
Both of these interviews covered important tips that I think we should all take into consideration to be happier, and therefore, more productive at work. Going along with our theme-that if we don’t like what’s going on outside of ourselves, let’s dive deeper into understanding how our brain and minds work.
Which brings us back to FRIEDERIKE FABRITIUS, MS, is a neuroscientist and pioneer in the field of neuroleadership. She trained at the Max Planck Institute for Brain Research and is an alumna of McKinsey & Company (helping organizations to create change). Friederike delivers brain-based leadership programs to Fortune 500 executives and organizations around the globe to transform how they think, innovate, and navigate change.
I’m always looking for productivity tips that we can all use, and it’s clear that stress in our workplaces is at an all-time high, globally. We know that “2/3 of people report being stressed at work, to the point they can’t sleep at night”[vii] and in our first clip, Friederike reports that “only 20% of people feel passionate about their jobs” and that “40% of people never experience FLOW in their jobs.” I think there has to be another way to find balance here.
VIDEO 1 Click Here to Watch
Let’s listen to Friederike’s clip on:
Why FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS Matter for Flow & Peak Performance
“Only 20% of people feel passionate about their jobs. That’s insane. And 40% of people never experience FLOW in their jobs. And (she thinks) it can be that simple. That everyone can be happy at their jobs. All you need are three simple things. (Friederike calls them ) FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS. And it has to do with a certain mix of neurochemicals in our brain. When we are having fun at work (not the after work party kind of fun) where you have fun after the work is done. I’m thinking of having fun related to the task at hand. And when we are having fun, our brains release a neurochemical called dopamine. Dopamine is a real brain booster. It makes you think faster. It helps you to do everything a bit speedier and better, and makes us more creative.”
💡 Key Points from Video Clip 1
Only 20% of people feel passionate about their jobs (she reported) and about 40% never experience flow—that state of deep concentration where time disappears and performance peaks. Friederike suggests that reaching flow at work requires three key ingredients:
FUN → Dopamine from the brain released boosts creativity, speed, and sharper thinking.
Not the after-work kind of fun, but enjoyment in the task itself.
THINK: Do I enjoy my daily tasks at work? YES- keep going! NO- then you’ve got something to think about
FEAR → A sense of challenge or pressure (like deadlines or high stakes) keeps you from slipping into apathy. You want to find the right balance for you, remembering that some people perform better with a sense of threat, while others, don’t do as well.
THINK, What side of the chart do you perform best with? Do you prefer less stress, or more to keep you motivated? Be sure you have strategies to either stay motivated, or to mitigate your stress.
FOCUS → Having time in your day for the concentration that directs your energy where it matters most, allowing you to reach peak performance in your day.
THINK: How do you block off time in your day to accomplish the work that requires your most intense focus?
The Stress vs. Performance Curve
Another important concept that goes along with creating flow in our work lives, is understanding the stress vs performance curve.
Think about a person with a low stress job (on the left-hand side of the graph). The job is easy for them, they have low stress, not much challenge in their day, and not very exciting, which can lead to apathy without this understanding of how to reach PEAK PERFORMANCE. If the job is too easy, without any threat/challenge/fear the person working in this job environment will be under challenged, and will join the 40% of the population who do not reach FLOW in their work day.
Then look at the right side of the graph, where a person’s job is on the higher end of the stress scale. Think of someone’s whose work day is filled with putting out fires, minute after minute, until they reach the end of the day, and are exhausted. There is high stress here, and lots of pressure. Think about extreme sports, investment bankers, or consultants, or those who are always running behind, without an end to their daily tasks. Instead of feeling apathy, like the person on the left side of the graph, this person feels anxiety that can lead to depression or burnout.
We ALL need to find our optimal stress point, so that our work challenges us just the right amount, leading us to that place of optimal workplace happiness where we can be a part of the 40% of the population who experience that FLOW state, or PEAK PERFORMANCE.
🔑 Practical Tips for Why FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS Matter for Flow & Peak Performance
The Stress vs. Performance Curve
- Low Stress (Left Side: Apathy)
Tasks are too easy, repetitive, and uninspiring → boredom sets in. Without FUN/FEAR/FOCUS, you won’t reach flow.
Tip: Tie your job tasks to your personal “why” and create deadlines to generate challenge.
- High Stress (Right Side: Anxiety)
Overload, constant fire-fighting, and no room to breathe → burnout and exhaustion.
Tip: Find ways to manage stress (recovery breaks, clear priorities, mindfulness) so that pressure fuels, not drains, you.
- Optimal Stress (Middle: Flow/Peak Performance)
The sweet spot—where challenge meets skill. With the right mix of FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS, you engage deeply and perform at your best.
THINK:
Do you prefer a low stress work environment, or high stress? Whatever you choose, be sure that you understand the best way for you to reach PEAK PERFORMANCE, and prevent apathy/boredom on the left side of the chart, or burnout, anxiety, depression on the right side.
I know I’m the happiest working with on the right side of the graph, where stress can be higher, and am always looking for new and healthy ways to better manage daily stress in my life, as well as those close to me. So far, the strategy that has had the most profound impact on my ability to bounce back after higher stress days, would be exercise and daily meditation.
VIDEO 2 Click Here to Watch
Moving to our second clip where Friederike talks about how men and women’s brain’s react differently to stress.
She says “Men and women react differently to stress and to different situations. I think this is one of the reasons why there’s so few women in leadership positions. It’s because the stress point that men have combining testosterone and dopamine might be quite different for that of women who combine in her brain dopamine activity with estrogen activity. So people need different work environments to perform at their best. I’m always against coaching people and changing people. I think it’s a waste of time and energy. You should be thinking “What does this specific person need in order to reach peak performance and then you need to create and craft an environment that matches this person rather than trying to mold the person to the job, you should mold the job to the person.”
IMAGE CREDIT: Carolin Nischwitz
This is what Friederike covered in her second book, The Brain Friendly Workplace
That we covered on our 2nd interview[viii] where she asked us to identify our neurosignature, reminding us that women can have a testosterone neurosignature, and it would be this neurosignature that would be best for women in leadership positions.
Different Brains, Different Stress Points
💡 Key Points from Video Clip 2
In her work, Friederike points out that men and women often respond differently to stress because of how neurochemicals interact:
- Men → Testosterone + Dopamine
- Women → Estrogen + Dopamine
This difference can influence how each person reaches peak performance, and it may also help explain why fewer women end up in leadership roles—because many workplaces are designed around stress points that better fit the male brain.
🔑
Practical Tips for Rethinking Leadership & Workplace Design
Instead of trying to “fix people” through coaching or molding them to fit a job, Friederike argues we should:
- Identify each person’s neurosignature (the unique mix of brain chemistry and stress response).
- Shape the work environment to match the person, not the other way around.
This is at the heart of her book, The Brain Friendly Workplace, where she challenges organizations to rethink success—not as conformity, but as creating conditions where every brain type can thrive.
REVIEW and CONCLUSION
As we wrap up Episode 373 and our review of EP 27 with Friderike Fabritius, we covered:
💡 Key Points from Video Clip 1 with Practical Tips
Why FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS Matter for Flow & Peak Performance
With The Stress vs. Performance Curve
- Low Stress (Left Side: Apathy)
Tasks are too easy, repetitive, and uninspiring → boredom sets in. Without FUN/FEAR/FOCUS, you won’t reach flow.
Tip: Tie your job tasks to your personal “why” and create deadlines to generate challenge.
- High Stress (Right Side: Anxiety)
Overload, constant fire-fighting, and no room to breathe → burnout and exhaustion.
Tip: Find ways to manage stress (recovery breaks, clear priorities, mindfulness) so that pressure fuels, not drains, you.
- Optimal Stress (Middle: Flow/Peak Performance)
The sweet spot—where challenge meets skill. With the right mix of FUN, FEAR, and FOCUS, you engage deeply and perform at your best.
💡 Key Points from Video Clip 2
Different Brains, Different Stress Points
Men → Testosterone + Dopamine
Women → Estrogen + Dopamine
These differences can influence how each person reaches peak performance, and it may also help explain why fewer women end up in leadership roles—because many workplaces are designed around stress points that better fit Testosterone Signature Brain, however, woman can also have Testosterone Neurosignature brain and end up in positions of leadership. I do encourage you to watch our second interview[ix], so that you can identify your own neurosignature.
🔑
Practical Tips for Rethinking Leadership & Workplace Design
Instead of trying to “fix people” through coaching or molding them to fit a job, Friederike argues we should:
- Identify each person’s neurosignature (the unique mix of brain chemistry and stress response).
- Shape the work environment to match the person, not the other way around.
- Know the best self-care for YOU based on your neurosignature.
This is at the heart of her book, The Brain Friendly Workplace, where she challenges organizations to rethink success—not as conformity, but as creating conditions where every brain type can thrive.
In chapter 1, she explains that “It’s All About Our Brains” and that “four powerful chemicals shape your personality: the neurotransmitters dopamine and serotonin, estrogen and testosterone. Together, they form four distinct systems that stimulate specific areas of your brain. These are your dopamine, serotonin, estrogen and testosterone brain systems” (Chapter 1, page 10, The Brain Friendly Workplace).
Dopamine: People high in dopamine are curious, energetic and future-oriented. Inventors and entrepreneurs tend to have this neurosignature. They get bored easily and are always looking for the next exciting, new project.
Serotonin: People high in serotonin are reliable, detail-oriented, cautious and loyal. They thrive on routine and structure and enjoy consistency and stability.
Testosterone: People high in testosterone are tough-minded, direct, and enjoy wielding power. They tend to be analytical and use systems thinking, which involves moving logically from one step to the next to solve a problem.
Estrogen: People high in estrogen are empathetic and good at building personal connections and community. Estrogen increases serotonin of the “cuddle hormone” oxytocin, which enhances feelings of bonding and trust. Think of Steve Wozniak, Apple’s co-founder. He exhibits the traits of a high estrogen neurosignature, who is also a lateral thinker (which involves prioritizing intuition and insight, making connections that others might miss).
(From Chapter 1 of the Brain Friendly Workplace).
If you resonated with one of the qualities of the neurosignature, I added some tips from Friederike’s blog for how to manage your stress, based on each neurosignature.
How to destress based on your neurosignature (written by Friederike Fabritius)[x]
𝗛𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗘𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗼𝗴𝗲𝗻: Have that one close friend who you can call anytime and who is always there for you. Also, be aware of not overloading yourself too much so you can manage the stress.
𝗛𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗧𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗼𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗼𝗻𝗲: Make sure you have the freedom to do what you want to do and are holding onto your autonomy to prevent burnout. To relieve stress, do something adventurous and challenging! Hike a high mountain or test a race car.
𝗛𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗗𝗼𝗽𝗮𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗲: Make sure not to get bored! Try a new activity or hobby to engross yourself in. Sign up for that new Tabata class at the gym; explore something creative like bookmaking or wood-sculpting.
𝗛𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗦𝗲𝗿𝗼𝘁𝗼𝗻𝗶𝗻: Plan it out and create a routine. By setting a plan and sticking to it, say every morning, you will feel less stressed. Also, be social! Try volunteering, joining a choir, or setting up a dinner date with friends.
By understanding your neurosignature, you can refine your life, both in and out of the office, for success.
I hope you found this review helpful for pinpointing the best work environment for your brain to reach PEAK performance, and we will see you in 2 weeks for PART 2 of this review.
See you October 12th.
RESOURCES:
Watch Full Interview 1 with Friederike Fabritius https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHK3UG8-Or0
Clip 1 Fun, Fear, Focus PART 1 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DZkTBIb-JNk
Clip 1B Fun, Fear, Focus, PART 2 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rEnJXHJIgbg
Clip 2 Men vs Women https://www.youtube.com/shorts/S4Wxat_I2vU
Watch Full Interview 2 with Friederike Fabritius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmv9PmuioFs
THE BRAIN FRIENDLY WORKPLACE https://friederikefabritius.com/books/the-brain-friendly-workplace/
REFERENCES:
[i] Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 366 REVIEW PART 1: Unlocking Your Potential: Refining Goals with Bob Proctor’s Wisdom https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/unlocking-your-potential-redefining-goals-with-bob-proctors-wisdom/
[ii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 369 with Dr. Dawson Church https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/bliss-brain-rewire-your-mind-in-minutes-a-day/
[iii]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 370 with Dr. John Medina on “How Neuroscience Can Transform Classrooms” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/brain-rules-revisited-how-neuroscience-can-transform-classrooms/
[iv]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 27 with Friederike Fabritius on “The Recipe for Achieving Peak Performance” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/pioneer-in-the-field-of-neuroleadership-friederike-fabritius-on-the-recipe-for-achieving-peak-performance/
[v] https://friederikefabritius.com/
[vi]Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning Podcast EPISODE 258 with Neuroscientist Friederike Fabritius on “The Brain Friendly Workplace” https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/neuroscientistwallstreet-journalbestselling-authorfriederike-fabritius-onhernew-bookthe-brainfriendly-workplacewhy-talented-peoplequitand-how-tomake/
[vii] Intro to The Brian Friendly Workplace Published on YouTube September 2022 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La9yqt0v9f4
[viii] Watch Full Interview 2 with Friederike Fabritius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmv9PmuioFs
[ix] Watch Full Interview 2 with Friederike Fabritius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmv9PmuioFs
[x] https://friederikefabritius.com/blog/the-best-self-care-for-your-neurosignature-based-in-neuroscience/
