Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

H.W. Brands: America First — Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh and the Fight for America’s Role in the World

2026-01-13

What happens when a nation debates whether it has a moral obligation to intervene in the suffering of others — and who gets to decide? Corey is joined by Pulitzer Prize–finalist historian and bestselling author H.W. Brands, Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin, to explore the moral, political, and human tensions behind one of the most consequential debates in American history. The conversation centers on Professor Brands’ latest book, America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the S...

What happens when a nation debates whether it has a moral obligation to intervene in the suffering of others — and who gets to decide?

Corey is joined by Pulitzer Prize–finalist historian and bestselling author H.W. Brands, Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin, to explore the moral, political, and human tensions behind one of the most consequential debates in American history.

The conversation centers on Professor Brands’ latest book, America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War, which examines the clash between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Charles Lindbergh as the United States wrestled with whether to enter World War II — and what role America should play in the world.

Professor Brands unpacks how personal biography shapes public history, introducing his framework of “big history” and “little history” — the intersection between sweeping geopolitical forces and the intimate human decisions that quietly steer them. From Lindbergh’s unlikely rise as a celebrity political figure to Roosevelt’s strategic ambiguity and political maneuvering, the discussion reveals how persuasion, fear, power, and moral reasoning collide in moments of national consequence.

Corey and Dr. Brands explore the ethical tension at the heart of American leadership: When does power create responsibility? Is it moral for leaders to deceive in pursuit of what they believe is the greater good? How should a nation weigh human suffering abroad against the risks borne by its own citizens? The conversation also examines Lindbergh’s controversial views on race, antisemitism, and isolationism — resisting caricature while reckoning honestly with their implications.

Along the way, Brands reflects on his craft as a historian — how he uses diaries, speeches, correspondence, and press transcripts to reconstruct interior lives while remaining faithful to documented sources — and why narrative storytelling remains essential to understanding political power and human choice.

The episode closes by turning forward: What questions should we be asking now that future historians will use to understand our moment? How should Americans grapple with a changing global balance of power, rising geopolitical instability, and the enduring tension between national interest and moral responsibility?

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About the Guest:

H.W. Brands holds the Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin and is the author of numerous acclaimed histories and biographies, including Founding Partisans, The First American, Traitor to His Class, and America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War. Two of his biographies were finalists for the Pulitzer Prize.

Brands writes regularly on Substack at hwbrands.substack.com, where he publishes A User’s Guide to History. His forthcoming biography of George Washington, American Patriarch, will be released this spring.

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