Renewed Education Inspections

Want to know more about Ofsted's renewed education inspections? In this episode, Lee Owston (National Director, Education), Lee Elliott (Assistant Regional Director, North East, Yorkshire and Humber), Jayne Coward (Deputy Director, Early Years) and Andrea Dill-Russell (Senior HMI, Further Education and Skills) explore the key changes to education inspections and what Ofsted is hearing on the ground from our pilots and inspections now they have started. 

 

Transcript

Jonathan Bennett: Hello and welcome to another episode of Ofsted Talks, the Ofsted podcast. And today we're going to be talking about our renewed framework for inspection. Inspections started in November, and we're going to explore some of the changes, and also what we're hearing on the ground from our pilot inspections, as well as the actual inspections now that they have started. And who better to talk us through all of this than Lee Owston, Lee Elliott, Andrea Dill-Russell and Jayne Coward. I'll let you all introduce yourselves and your roles, and let's start with you. Lee Owston.

 

Lee Owston: Hello, great to be here. I'm Lee Owston. I'm one of His Majesty's inspectors, and I'm Ofsted’s National Director of Education.

 

Lee Elliott: Hi everyone. I'm Lee Elliott. I'm the Assistant Regional Director for Education in the North East, Yorkshire and Humber.

 

Jayne Coward: Hi everyone. I'm Jayne coward. I am Deputy Director for early years regulatory policy and practice. Nice to be here.

 

Andrea Dill-Russell: Hello everyone. I'm Andrea Dill-Russell. I'm Senior His Majesty's Inspector in the policy team for further education and skills and teacher development.

 

Jonathan Bennett: Great. Thank you all. So, as we said, we will talk a bit about what we have seen on the ground as these inspections went through the pilot stages, and now they are live and we're inspecting. But let's just remind ourselves of some of the key changes to this renewed framework with you, Lee.

 

Lee Owston: Absolutely, and for those of you that have heard me talk before, I normally sum it up by saying the changes are essentially about making inspection look different, but also making it feel different too. So, we reviewed not only what our inspection materials make inspection look at, but also how we go about collecting evidence, because that's the bit that people often remember the most, because that's how we interact with them, that's how we have conversations with them at the point of inspection. And if I was to boil it down to the five key areas, I suppose, we've changed toolkits and the evaluation areas that we look at. We've changed how we report so we've introduced report cards. There's a new five-point grading scale, and of course, we've also more recently published our work around what our monitoring program would look like in schools, further education and skills. So, I just take each of those in turn and give you kind of a snapshot of what those changes mean in practice. And of course, I'm sure all of you will be clicking and downloading and looking at our toolkits, operating guides and inspection information documents to get more detail. But if I start with the toolkits and the evaluation areas, this was a replacement to our kind of framework and our school inspection, further education and skills inspection handbooks, early years inspection handbooks that we had previously. And it all started with the question, you know, what makes great provision? What are the component parts that allow fantastic early years settings, schools in all of their types, or indeed post-16 provision to do the job that they do. And of course, that's where we arrived in terms of the evaluation areas, whether that's around curriculum, teaching and training, whether that's in early years, around welfare and well-being, or indeed in schools, whether that's about attendance and behaviour. So we broke it down into those separate elements, and through our toolkits, exemplified what different grades look like for each of those areas. It therefore is the focal point for inspection. Those inspection toolkits show you what we'll focus on, how we'll evaluate and how we'll grade. And I suppose there's probably not a lot there that surprises people. You know, it is all of the things that you would expect great provision to be doing and to have in place, whether that's around leadership and governance or how well children, learners achieve. But I think the newer element is around inclusion. And of course, if you look at our toolkits, you'll see that there is a new inclusion evaluation area, but also, it's spread right across all of our other evaluation areas. So what does it mean to have an inclusive curriculum or inclusive teaching practices, so on and so forth across all of our remits? And just to give you a snapshot by inclusion, we mean, what is it that leaders are doing to help break down those barriers to learning and well-being, and that might be around children who are from disadvantaged backgrounds. It might be those who have special educational needs and or disabilities, or indeed, it might be those known to social care, so something that we've really helped to push to the front. And actually, if you listen to Sir Martyn as our Chief Inspector, you'll hear him talk about inclusion being at the heart of this renewed framework. So that was toolkits and evaluation areas. And as I said, please do download those if you want more detail on our website. Now linked to that is obviously how we report and this is one of the biggest changes, I would say, in probably our 30 plus year history as an organisation, we have fundamentally redesigned how we communicate what we find on inspection to predominantly parents and carers. So, our new report cards combine at a glance grades with the narrative summary of the strengths and the areas for improvement in wherever we've been. And we kind of tested lots of different types with parents and carers. And of course, what we've ended up with is something that allows you as a parent or carer to kind of click on what interests you most, what is of most importance to you in helping you decide where your child goes in terms of their next stage or their next setting. So, when those are published in January - so our first batch will be published in January - I'm sure people will find those far more helpful in terms of providing the detail that they want about their child's education. Now within those report cards, you'll obviously see a very different grading scale. From our testing, our piloting and our early inspections, we know the five-point grading scale and how it differs from what's gone before is something that we really need to help people understand and explain. So, first thing I want to say is the five-point grading scale cannot in any way be compared with the old grades. Can't be compared with the kind of four words that we've known from the past. It's a different approach to inspection. It's a new way of reporting. We wanted to change the culture of inspection, and in doing that, we started by changing the language that we use, and obviously that all came back to the words we used for evaluation and for grading. So, for example, you cannot equate the new exceptional grade with an outstanding grade that perhaps you've received previously, the two are not an automatic crossover. Equally, good in terms of the old system doesn't automatically equate with expected or strong. They are new grades with new standards, and importantly, those standards are aligned to, particularly the expected standard, with everything that providers are expected to do, whether that's written into statute, whether that's professional standards or non-statutory guidance. So everything in the expected standard has been crafted around everything that a provider is expected to do. And it's a high bar, because one of the things we've also introduced is this idea of a secure fit, so you have to, through inspection evidence, gathering, meet every one of the standards before you can be graded as the expected standard. And that's a shift from what we've known before, which was obviously a best fit. And a best fit, it was us learning from the Big Listen around inconsistency, and one of the things we unpicked was that a best fit inevitably allowed some institutions to achieve a grade on having some of the things that we'd written down, but not the others. And equally, the institution down the road could still get the same grade, but have a different mix of criteria, and that led to, you know, inconsistencies we heard through the Big Listen. So we've removed that, and now we've gone with a secure fit, which means you have to have all of the standards before you can be graded that particular standard. And

then the other thing just to touch upon is the needs attention grade. And I want to be really clear with everybody that's listening, that needs attention is simply an indication that there's work to be done to reach the expected standard. It's not a fail, but it does highlight where issues need to be addressed before they become even bigger problems that might need urgent improvement in the future.

And then the last thing on my list of five was around monitoring. And again, if you want to look at some of our guidance around monitoring for schools and further education and skills in particular, then you can download it from our website, but we've redesigned the system for monitoring and those two remits, particularly where there's a need for where we've perhaps graded needs attention or urgent improvement, we'll design a program and go back and offer, obviously, leaders reassurance that they're on the right track and improvement is happening, but also reassure parents and carers that obviously things are getting better. And

where we see those improvements, we'll be able to recognise them more quickly and change a grade on a report card there and then at the point of monitoring without leaders and others having to wait for a full inspection, 2,3,4 years down the line in previous models before their hard work has been recognised. So, plenty more I could say about monitoring, but I'll leave it there for now and just say there's plenty that we've reformed. And of course, in making all of those changes based on the Big Listen. We also want to make sure that the intention we all had in our minds in making improvements, or the reality that we see on the ground through inspection.

 

Jonathan Bennett: Thanks, Lee. And just to pick up on a few of the things there, because as you and I go out and about and we listen quite a lot, get a lot of questions in. And I think the secure fit and best fit change is one that we get quite a lot of questions around, so it's good to get the clarity on what that actually means. One of the things we've also heard, though, is that with the toolkits, that it's not just a sort of schools toolkit, in an early years toolkit, it actually breaks down into a lot more detail, doesn't it depending on which part of that sector you're working in?

 

Lee Owston: It does, you're right. So, it's different by design. So not only have we made sure that the early years toolkit speaks to the early years and schools and further education and skills, but even within each remit, we know there's a vast variety of different provision types, and we've made sure that at the start of every evaluation area within each of those remit toolkits, we talk about the differences, for example, between a childminder and registered or group based provision in early years. Or, in schools, we talk about the difference between a primary and secondary at a very kind of high level, or indeed, UTCs or small schools or specialist provision, where there are slight nuances to how we might go about gathering our evidence. And further education and skills, we try and cover the four main provision types, but even within those, there'll be differences, because we've tried really hard to build more of a provider's context into the way in which we go about gathering evidence and, of course, evaluating them and awarding a grade.

 

Jonathan Bennett: And the other thing that's probably important to remember, we still get quite a lot of questions about it, is that when you talk about the read across and that there isn't one between the set of grades and the previous ones, the main difference, there isn't just one grade now, is it? So it's not, you won't get just exceptional or strong standard. It's dependent on the different evaluation areas.

 

Lee Owston: It is, and that's something that state-funded schools saw the earliest back in September 2024 - we removed the overall effectiveness grade at the request of the Secretary of State. With the launch of the renewed framework, we've just made sure that every other remit is kind of brought into line. So, we've removed those headline grades, those overall effectiveness grades, that captured an awful lot under one banner and can often hide the separate strengths and the even better ifs or the next steps. And now we've made it far more nuanced, as I said earlier, by enabling parents and carers predominantly to focus on what matters most to them, but even when they've selected that, for example, attendance and behaviour in schools, to then see a narrative description alongside a side a grade.

 

Jonathan Bennett: And of course, the first lot of report cards are going to be published this month. So, let's go over to you Lee Elliott - I'm sorry to be using surnames but with two Lees I have to. You've been on some of the school's inspections, and what have we sort of heard from the pilots and these early inspections? You know, what is working well, where have we had to make tweaks?

 

Lee Elliott: Yeah, absolutely. And it's been really interesting for me in my role to be out leading an inspection, and out quality assuring inspections of late and Lee referenced earlier on in the discussion, inspections looking and feeling different. And I can certainly say with confidence for me, from my point of view as a lead inspector, it certainly felt different in a really positive way, and the feedback that I've had from head teachers and other senior leaders when I've quality assured inspections of late, it's been quite similar as well. And I think what struck me the most, I suppose we've always had school leaders at the heart of inspection in terms of that dialog etc, but what struck me the most with the renewed inspections is the amount of high quality ongoing professional dialog between leaders in the inspection team and that sort of greater sense of shared insights. And I suppose what I mean by that are those regular opportunities for leaders to hear from the team about what they're seeing and what the emerging evidence tells us, as well as, of course, opportunities for leaders to show inspectors aspects of the school that work well and aspects that they're particularly proud of, I suppose, as well. And that regular dialog for me as a lead inspector really allowed me to get a detailed understanding of the school and to hear from the head teacher about the impact of their work on pupils learning, and that dialog, it starts right from the off, doesn't it? You know, that notification call, when we make the call to the school, we've made a change, and we're trying to endeavour now to have that notification call via teams or Google meet, you know, a video call, rather than across the telephone, and that helps to build that constructive working relationship, that professional dialog from the off. Being able to see the head teacher and senior leaders on the call was really helpful to me to establish that sort of professional discussion from the off, but also logistically, when it came to things like organising and co-constructing the timetable, we were able to do that together on screen and populate it together, and that really made a difference and helped us, quite literally, hit the ground running as an inspection team and as a school. I'm not sure if that was a similar thing for you, Jayne and Andrea, it certainly looked and felt different to me in that regard.

 

Jayne Coward: Yeah, I'd say with that, with my early years hat on, absolutely, I think that planning calls been a bit of a revelation, actually, and I agree with lots of what you've said, it's just a really good opportunity to establish that positive professional working relationship ahead of the inspector relying on site and providers have told us that they've really welcomed that opportunity to talk about the context of their setting, to set out what their strengths are as well as what they're working on. I think they've had real confidence to be to have those open and transparent conversations right from the start. And feedback that we've had is that they feel inspections are done with them rather than to them. So, Lee talked about inspections that look and feel different, and that's really hard to demonstrate until you're actually out there doing the pilots and doing the live inspection. So, I think by the time the inspector walks through the door on the first day of the inspection, it can get off to really great start, because this is those really positive relationships, and providers have told us that they felt listened to, which I think is really important. Have you had similar Andrea?

 

Andrea Dill-Russell: Yeah. I mean, in particular, in further education and skills, Lee's already outlined the sort of the variety and range of the providers that we inspect, but I think in particular the fact that from the time that we sort of make that notification call, you know, on teams, you can sort of meet with people in a much more collaborative process. Part Two of the planning call, in particular, where you just giving the senior leaders and the nominee the time to talk about their different types of provision, the different types of curriculum and the learners and apprentices that they're working with has been really important, and the fact that lead inspectors have taken the time to listen and understand the context and then worked collaboratively to then sort of agree the inspection focused areas, part of the sort of the final, final part of the call, rather than what's tended to happen previously, when you'd go in with a preconceived idea about what you were going to look at, and obviously that's a significant change, and very much from what you said, Jayne, that sort of repeatedly as I've led inspections team inspections and been out and QA them that that providers are, I would say, overall, saying that they feel like they're being listened to. And then when we do the orientation meeting on the first day of inspection, where the lead inspector is then reflecting back what they've said to the rest of the team, they're finding that really quite powerful, because it does demonstrate that the lead inspectors have understood and then have used that to really inform the inspection team about what the inspection methodology, the activities are going to look like, but it's all been set around their context and what they've and what they've told us about, which has been, as I say, I just think really, really powerful. I think the interesting thing from FES, and it would be interesting interesting to see what Lee's view is, sorry, Lee Elliot, not Lee Owston – or Lee Owston might have a view - is that we've always had nominees in FES, and so it was like, well, actually, this might not be that much of a difference for us, but I think what we've definitely seen, it strengthened the role of the nominee, because they feel even more so they're part of the team. They've got that sort of collaborative work. And therefore, throughout the inspection, as the inspection is evolving, it's definitely an evolving piece now, rather than you know that that piece is finished, and then we'll move on to the next piece. But they're part of those ongoing conversations, through reflection as to so we know where do we need to move the inspection team now, now obviously we sort of seen that we've celebrated or validated, or know where things might look sort of like slightly differently or better, and that's helped us sort of move, I think, through inspections, so that there is that ongoing collaborative work that doesn't just take place at planning. So, I don't know how others are found through the introduction of the nominee, I'd be interested to know really.

 

Lee Elliott: Yeah, it's a really interesting point, isn't it, Andrea, and I've seen it working really well on FES inspections as well, and was interested to see how it transfers to school inspections. The inspection that I led, you know, we make it really clear to school leaders that the nominee is there to support them, but they absolutely won't be disadvantaged if they don't choose to have a nominee. And on my pilot inspection, the school didn't want to have a nominee, because they said that the person they would have nominated to carry out that role would have been the deputy head, and the deputy head was going to be in on the meetings. And it worked really well for that school during that inspection. But equally, I've seen inspections where the nominee has made a real impact, because we know schools are busy places, and in many schools, especially some of the primary schools that have been in on inspection, you know, quite often they might get a parent wants to speak the head teacher unannounced, and schools have got to operate as normal, even when inspectors are there, and that nominee role just helps ease the sort of load on senior leaders. The head teacher helps the inspection team work closely with a really knowledgeable nominee who knows the school inside out, and they can help provide additional evidence, or they can speak to staff if there's an amendment to the timetable. So, I've seen it work in both ways, without a nominee really well, but with a nominee really well. And I think it just gives schools that additional sort of flexibility to be able to work well with inspection teams.

 

Andrea Dill-Russell: It does show that, doesn’t it, we always said that we would tailor inspections under renewed framework, and actually we are definitely doing that and fully in line with the operating guide, which is really important.

 

Jonathan Bennett: I was going to say coming to you, Jayne, how is that translating in early years, which, again, is very, very different.

 

Jayne Coward: So, so again, similar to what Lee said, I mean, we set out with an expectation that for the childminders, or very small provision, we likely wouldn't have a nominee, particularly for a childminder where they're often operating on their own and they are the person that knows the children best. But like Lee and Andrea have said, when you're inspecting a larger, more complex nursery based provision, then absolutely we've seen through the pilots and the live inspections where that nominee role has worked well to have that kind of coordination and be that link with the inspection team. So to have the flexibility to use it where it's appropriate to use it has been really important. But I think one of the key changes we found in early years is it's the manager having or the deputy, whoever the person is, that's going to come around with you, them being there and seeing at the same time as the lead inspector, what's happening within a provision has been like gold dust, because you can have the opportunity in the moment to say, you know, is this typical of practice that we've seen in this room, and I think that's been really important in terms of having that shared experience and then being able to move on and have those collaborative conversations about what you've seen together, rather than kind of coming back and saying, Oh, well, I saw this. It's much more helpful when you when you see things together, and you can have those in the moment discussions.

 

Jonathan Bennett: And all this talk of nominees is a good opportunity to plug our nominee training videos, which are on our Ofsted YouTube channel. So, if once you have thought of or decided who your nominee should be, then that training is available. Just search for Ofsted on YouTube and you'll see the training and it's, it's per remit as well. The things that you mentioned, and what I was going to ask you, because we get a lot of questions about, is the planning call. It's obviously, it's the sort of the starting point of the relationship that you talk about, and this more collaborative approach. From having been on planning calls now, what would you say to leaders, or how would you make sure giving them advice now on this, on this podcast, that they make the most of the planning, what can they be doing? Because we are getting a lot of questions from leaders that say, you know, what do I need to prepare, what do I need to bring? So, in your view, when planning calls have gone well, what have leaders done?

 

Lee Elliott: Really interesting question, and something that I was going to touch on in terms of inspections feeling different and looking different, because in the past, you know, an inspector would have done their prep. They would have had a look at curriculum plans, from websites and so on, and you would have had a sense of what the day one timetable was going to look like. And you might have pre-populated a timetable, 90% of the timetable before making that call. On my pilot inspection, I could safely say maybe 80% of the timetable was blank, because what I wanted to do with the head teacher in that notification call was listen to the head teacher talk to me about the context of their school, talk to me about the work that they've done since the last inspection, and talk to me also about aspects of the school that they felt inspectors could see and might be able to celebrate. And so together, we really co-constructed that timetable and populated the timetable with learning walks to see aspects of provision that the school were proud of, to see aspects of provision where they started working of late and were seeing early impact. And that was really that that sort of collaborative approach. And it was interesting to hear Andrea say inspectors were hearing from providers, say that inspections were being done with and not to, and that they were feeling listened to. And I think that notification call was really key to be able to have that equal partnership to construct the timetable, to get a sense of that context and the uniqueness of the school for me.

 

Jonathan Bennett: So leaders should come prepared, sort of to think about and talk about how they want to, to explore their setting review on the day.

 

Lee Elliott: Yeah, I don't think it's a sense of coming prepared, because leaders know their school inside out anyway. It's just making sure that they're able to articulate to us in that time available what it is that works well, you know, what they're proud of and what they want us to see as inspectors, so that we, by the end of the two day process, we get to see that inside out.

 

Lee Owston: Can I just jump in because that's just made me reflect on one of those other questions I often get asked, which is around self-evaluation. And it links to what Lee was just saying there, because people automatically assume that by self-evaluation we mean extensive document and for the record, that is not what inspectors expect to see. We're not returning to the days of, you know, lengthy SEFs, particularly in the schools and schools space. For me, self-evaluation is a verb. It's a process. It's a process of knowing about your provider, your institution. As Lee’s just said, everything that you do really well, all of the things that are on your desk as a leader, because you're dealing with them now, because you know a school or a setting, or a provider as a living, breathing entity, isn't it all. It's always evolving and moving forward. And of course, inspection therefore, is about starting with a conversation. It's not starting by a sharing of documents that we then go away and separately unpick. So, my one bit of advice to people would be, don't see self-evaluation as an onerous task of constantly filling in a document and updating it, because that's not what we want to see. We just want a conversation from the very first point of inspection all the way throughout the two, three, however many days we might be on site, because essentially, we want to help you celebrate, validate, and with fresh eyes, highlight the things that you might not have on your radar yet, but would really support you in that continuous improvement process.

 

Andrea Dill-Russell: Yeah, and I can I just sort of add there that, I think what sort of sort of part of that reflection, for me, was the fact that we sort of no longer do deep dives, which really did sort of shoehorn you into looking at a subject in particular – well, in FES anyway – because you're listening to what leaders are saying from a self-assessment point of view, basically what they know about, what's going well, what they're working on etc, means that you can really open out the inspection focused areas to be about themes, to be about groups, and not just about subjects, which means actually, they're more valuable for providers, because they're getting more sort of helpful feedback around what is working well. So, you're doing the validation, but then you can highlight sort of potentially areas that they might want to sort of continue to work on or improve, particularly where, if you're looking at certain groups of learners that are on a construction course, may well be doing really well, but if a similar group of learners are on hospitality through that sort of curriculum is not working quite so well that inspectors now through those sort of professional conversations can talk about why that may or may not be sort of happening. So it's actually more valuable for the provider because they're getting more helpful feedback through those conversations and really sort of like, sort of understanding, you know, what is working well and what's working less well means that the inspection focus areas are just more helpful fo sort of the improvement, for providers, sort of more overall.

 

Jayne Coward: I was just going to build on that, Andrea, I agree. And you know, we've been out and about doing lots of webinars and presentations, obviously to make sure everybody feels comfortable with the with the new inspection toolkits. And that's the question we probably get asked most often is, what can we do so that we're in the best place we can be when you come and it absolutely is giving them the confidence that they know their children the best. You said that about school leave, if I go into a nurse nursery or a child minder setting, they are the people that know their children best. And if they're doing what's right for their children within that setting, particularly the most vulnerable and disadvantaged, then they'll be doing what's right for Ofsted. And I think that planning call is a really good conversation starter. It's around half an hour. Don't want providers to think that they have to cram everything that they know about their setting into that 30 minutes. It's absolutely to get those key highlights around the context, what the setting feel they are doing well, what areas they're working on. So absolutely, we can co-construct those areas of inspection focus, but then we've got the time on inspection to really get underneath, to have those professional conversations, to observe the practice and the interactions, to talk to staff, to do all of those lovely activities, which, you know, if you've read the operating guide, you'll get more detail around. It's a scene setter, but really important for me, it's around establishing that really good professional working relationship from the outset. So have confidence in yourselves and what you know about your setting, because that will put you in a really good place for the inspection.

 

Jonathan Bennett: I like what you said there about the sort of the co-constructing, because it is a conversation, isn't it? It's not you as the inspector saying what you want to look at or just leaving it entirely, it's working out the best way to inspect that particular setting between the setting leader and the inspector.

 

Jayne Coward: Absolutely.

 

Jonathan Bennett: So I could talk about this for ages, but we are mindful of making sure that we don't stretch into sort of a three hour marathon podcast. But I think we will probably come back to this topic as inspections continue and we continue to learn. On that basis, Lee Owston, I just want to sort of finish with you. How is the process of inspection going to continue into January and beyond, because it is new for us as Ofsted right now, but it's going to be new for schools and for early years settings and for colleges and everyone else in further education for quite a while to come.

 

Lee Owston: It is, and we're very conscious of that. Depending on when your inspection is due, you might be coming to this in one year, two year, three years or more down the down the line. So, we have a series of materials. And if you go to our YouTube channel, there's a series of videos there, you can see lots of our webinar material that we delivered in September and October time to help people understand what inspection meant specifically for them, and we have webinars for broad range of kind of provision types. And of course, as we learn more about inspections, we'll continue to put other materials out there that we know will be supportive. For example, we've got a recent video, haven't we, about explaining the difference between the old grading system and the five-point grading scale. Some material around that number one question I get asked, ‘when will I be inspected’? And of course, across the spring and summer, we'll continue to build the number of inspections that we deliver so that we get back to business as usual as quickly as possible. However, particularly from myself, coming from a policy perspective, we're always keen to listen and learn and adapt, whether that's tweaking our materials, providing further comms or clarity to the sector, or indeed, further bits of training for our inspectors and all of that, or most of that you will be able to find with full transparency on the usual channels when you wish to see it. And ultimately, we've also commissioned an independent review, and that independent review will continue over the next couple of years to report back to us on what we're finding. So again, we can learn and we can adapt and celebrate what you've heard today in terms of where the policy intention is having its intended effect and making inspection feel and look much better than it has before.

 

Jonathan Bennett: Great. Thank you. So, I want to thank you all for your time. I hope those of you who have been listening and found that useful. As Lee mentioned, you can either go on to the Ofsted gov.uk page where we have a whole host of blogs and more coming and information around inspection, or the Ofsted YouTube channel where we also have all of those webinars and various different bits of video explainers, talking through the different aspects of inspection, depending on what kind of setting you're in. We're usually at a lot of events as well. So, if you know that Ofsted are there, come and speak to us on the stand. We always have experts there, and you can ask us questions. We're always happy to help. And obviously we're all on all of our social channels as well. So we're on X, on LinkedIn and on Facebook, so look us up, there's more information constantly on those channels as well. So Lee Owston, Lee Elliott, Andrea Dill-Russell and Jayne Coward, thank you very much for your time, and until the next Ofsted talks, I'll bid you farewell.