Remembering Dr. Wallace J Nichols: Blue Mind: Exploring the Water-Brain Connection

In this episode of the Neuroscience Meets Social and Emotional Learning podcast, host Andrea Samadi revisits a profound interview with Dr. Wallace J. Nichols, the author of the best-selling book "Blue Mind." Dr. Nichols delves into the fascinating connection between our brains and water, inspired by his extensive research and personal experiences.

Andrea reflects on Dr. Nichols' groundbreaking work, which explores how being near, in, on, or underwater can enhance our happiness, health, and overall well-being. This episode covers the origins of the Blue Mind theory, its scientific backing, and practical ways to apply it in daily life to combat stress, anxiety, and burnout.

As we honor Dr. Nichols' legacy, Andrea encourages listeners to practice Blue Mind, understand their personal connection to water, and extend this healing practice to others. Tune in to discover how the magical and mysterious connection to water can transform our lives.

On today's episode #338 we will revisit a previous interview #297[i] from last summer to remember the author of the best-selling book, Blue Mind, Dr. Wallace J. Nichols, who made such an impact on the world with his Blue Mind Movement, and is no longer with us today. While this is a difficult episode to write, I know it’s an important one as I could use the tips I know we are going to cover myself at the moment. I’m also sure there are others in the world who could benefit from revisiting the surprising science that shows how being near, in, on, or under water can make you happier, healthier more connected and better at what you do. I could have left this episode until a later date, even closed to World Blue Mind Day coming up July 23rd (later this month) as I stared at a blank document and the words just wouldn’t come out.  Then when I finally did start writing, last month, the document was erased, so it just must not have been the right words. Or maybe this episode was meant to be written near the ocean as I’m sitting next to the Gulf of Mexico, while writing this. Or maybe even written from the point of view, of being under the water, looking around, and up, to “see” what can be felt deeply with this mysterious brain/mind connection.

Before sitting down to write this episode, I noticed sea turtles swimming around in the ocean, up close to us, and everyone mentioned how rare this was. I just kept thinking of Dr. Nichols telling me (in our interview this time last year) that he studied sea turtles for 30 years, and remembered him mentioning that he was hoping someone else more qualified (like Dr. Oliver Sachs) would write the book he wanted to write, connecting the deep mysterious ocean with the intricacies of our brain.

While revisiting our interview, I wondered:

• What else could we learn from Dr. Nichols that we might have missed the first time? You know when you read a good book twice you always see something new. This is because you’ve changed since the first time, and you bring new experiences with you. I wonder what doors this second look would open for all of us?
• How can I improve my own Blue Mind Practice? Dr. Nichols mentioned that even if we are doing ok, practicing Blue Mind could still help us, but for those people who are in Red Mind (feeling anxious) this practice could save your life. It’s another tool to add to our tool kit to prevent us from reaching Grey Mind (or Burn out).
• How can revisiting this episode help others close to me (starting with my own family) helping them to practice Blue Mind in our daily lives? Also not being afraid of the hardest science in the room (our emotions) and keep talking openly about our feelings, and to not be afraid to reach out to others if we feel Red Mind or anxious thoughts.
• How can we highlight Dr. Nichols’ work so that we ALL can do what he suggests we do, by finding “our water, pay attention to how it feels and then take someone else with you” to experience the deep mysteries felt with this Blue Mind that’s backed by science.

Knowing our first interview was an important one, I watched the YouTube[ii] version for the third time this week, writing more notes on top of previous notes, to see if I could dig deeper into the meaning of the words of wisdom covered in our first interview.

Let’s go back and revisit this important interview with marine biologist and author, Dr. Wallace J Nichols, to see if we can take our own practice of Blue Mind, to the next level.

We opened up our interview when I recalled standing next to the bluest water I have ever seen in Turks and Caicos, last summer, 2023, just prior to our interview. I remember our bags were packed, and we were just leaving our hotel to return home, when I was introduced to Dr. Nichols, (via email) after experiencing some of the most “magical” memories that our family has ever felt, near the water. Dr. Nichols recalls those turquoise waters, saying he “knew them well” and we would return home as a family, not knowing we would ALL need Dr. Nichols’ Blue Mind Theory later this summer ourselves. It’s all easy to see these things looking backwards, but the dots had not connected forward yet, like Steve Jobs’ famous Stanford Commencement Speech.[iii]

I knew this was an important interview. For myself, as well as for others.

INTRO: We open up this interview with my introduction about Dr. Nichols, and how the foreword to his book, Blue Mind, was written by Celine Cousteau, one of the daughters of the great Jacques Cousteau who wrestles with explaining the “awe and wonder” of our oceans and waterways. She says “should we leave it, or dive in and explain it?” Jacques Cousteau would dive in, so she decides to do the same and says “it’s about reconnecting our sense of self and soul with our waterways and oceans. It’s about finding creativity, clarity, and confidence in our deep Blue Minds.” (Celine Cousteau) Next, I ask Dr. Nichols to share some of the meaning behind Celine Cousteau’s words in the Foreword, and he shared that she connected her background in psychology to her words.

Then I ask Dr. Nichols about how he made the brain/water connection and I loved his answer. He was hoping that someone else would publish Blue Mind. He searched all over the place for this book, Your Brain on Water, and pitched this book idea to Dr. Oliver Sachs, and he was told over and over again, that this is your book to write.

I understood why he kept looking for this book, from my point of view. I’m a former teacher, from Toronto, trying to make sense of how our brain impacts our future results, specifically as it relates to learning. I remember writing the idea of this podcast down, connecting Neuroscience to Social and Emotional Learning and almost hid this idea from others in the beginning. I’m not a neuroscientist, or anything –ist. But there was a time when I was told, just like Dr. Nichols, “you need to make the neuroscience/education connection” (and was handed a ton of books to read). I remember thinking “this is too hard for me” but I did it anyway. I was determined to learn more about our brain and learning, and paid people smarter than me to explain the concepts I couldn’t grasp. Slowly but surely, I began to understand how our brain learns something new.

Which is why I was so impressed when Dr. Nichols “wrote the book” anyway, connecting the nervous system (that we are still making deeper discoveries with) to largely unexplored bodies of water, like the ocean. He connected top neuroscientists, to those who understood the mysteries within the depths of the ocean. He says himself that it took him some time, explaining to me that he’s a marine biologist, who studied sea turtles for 30 years, and I understood what he was saying. He noted “I’m not a neuropsychologist, I just came in the side door.”  He did the work needed to “put this theory together, because he knew he had to do this. What he created continues to gain momentum over the years. He started a movement, The Blue Mind Movement, with this book that he knew he had to write, and proved that we ALL can make the brain/water connection to become happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what we do.

Q1: I was amazed at the research held in the pages of this book. I had to ask how he did it, and the answer just blew me away. Dr. Nichols talked about how they held Blue Mind Summits where they would connect the leading experts in neuroscience, (like neuroscientist Howard Fields) to those who used these principles in their lives around water, like pioneering top wave surfer, (Jeff Clark) or those who used this magical connection to water to overcome addiction. They were asked one question that they each would answer from their specific point of view. Like making the connection with dopamine (in our brain) and surfing, something that had never been done before.

This is where true learning begins, almost like connecting peanut butter to chocolate to create the Reece’s Peanut Butter Cup. Even though Dr. Nichols mentioned that no one would fund this idea, he just knew it had to be done, and he did it.

He mentions Dr. Dan Siegel[iv] often in Blue Mind, and looked for anyone we knew the science to help make this brain on water connection.

Sometimes I forget what questions I ask on interviews. The questions just come out of me and if you know me, I’m like this in real life. I remember someone saying that meeting me for the first time was like a job interview. I’m so curious, and I will just ask you so many questions, you’d leave our conversation wondering “why so many questions?!” I forgot that I mentioned my fascination with surfing at the north shore of Hawaii to Dr. Nichols until I re-watched our interview. Hollywood really does Blue Mind well, with all the movies, bringing water to life, and television has mastered this topic. Until this weekend, I had no idea that the American animated tv series Spongebob was created by a marine scientist educator an animator, and was the highest rated Nickelodeon Series, and the most profitable, generating over $13B in merchandising revenue.[v] So why did Hollywood[vi] film and television producers see something that didn’t reach those who protect our oceans?  This is what motivated Dr. Nichols to keep talking to those who could help him to make this brain/water connection. Since writing Blue Mind, Dr. Nichols’ mentioned there were hundreds more organizations dedicated to saving our oceans, but more work needs to be done here. I do feel a responsibility to continue to spread Dr. Nichols’ work, and keep his Blue Mind Theory in the forefront of our minds.

And by question 2, I was already asking Dr. Nichols “why am I mesmerized by the ocean?” and sharing how I felt a connection to the Billabong Pipe Masters section of the North shore in Hawaii. He looked at me with deep understanding, and it was here that I knew he understood what I was feeling, as I was starting to understand his Blue Mind Theory. I just couldn’t put it into words. There is something magical about being around water, and I’ve felt it for years.

Q2: I asked Dr. Wallace “Why are many people fascinated with the ocean and the “secrets it holds?” and he reassured me this was common, and he hears this all the time. I thought that if I felt this way, how many others listening also feel this fascination? When he said that “many people feel this way” and that “we are not alone” I felt my emotions coming through. Finally, someone telling me what I feel around water is common. I felt understood at a whole new level. He said “maybe everyone feels this connection” and it might not always be the ocean. It can be a puddle, or even frozen water! Now Dr. Nichols is catching my attention, and I can’t look away. As he listed all the sources of Blue Mind, my awareness is expanding. I had no idea there were so many ways to connect to water, and his words and calm voice were transporting me to what he called “virtual water.”

Now that we know what Blue Mind is, (it’s a feeling of fascination that we might all feel around water) how do we apply it and make use of it in our lives to become happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what we do?

Dr. Nichols directs us to STEP 1 of this process where he says that we must first of all understand our own Blue Mind. I know that I am more creative around water. I know my kids have always loved swimming in the ocean, or swimming pools.  What about you?  How do you feel around water? Have you ever stood mesmerized looking at water, or ice, or fog, and wondered what was capturing your attention? I hope that you feel some sort of reassurance that this is something Dr. Nichols would hear all the time. Now what’s next? What do we DO with this Blue Mind Theory?

STEP 2: Mindfully practice Blue Mind in your life. When you are in what Dr. Nichols calls RED MIND (anxious or super stressed) go to the water, get in the water, float on the water, sit by the water, read your book by the water. Practice this evidence-based method that can help transform you to a better place and make this a part of your “emotional tool-kit.”

Dr. Nichols had a goal to make this common knowledge to transform well-being and wellness, while also transforming our ability to protect these waters.

Q2B: Then it happened, and I no longer am afraid to “feel” deep emotions. It happens ALL the time when I’m connecting with others at the heart level, during interviews, (or in life) and I know Dr. Nichols could see it, let alone “feel” it. My eyes started to tear up, and I had to ask “Why do some of us feel so emotional around the water?” I knew he understood what I was trying to ask him. I loved his answer. He said “when we are in the water, we’re vulnerable. Our armor fades away. We access connection, curiosity, compassion, to each other, ourselves and to the water.”  He reminded me that “It’s a place for reflection. Deep reflection. Deep thought.” I love when I feel comfortable enough to be my whole self with someone else. It’s an incredible place to be.  No need to pretend, or hide, or be someone I’m not. Just exist and be 100% myself. This is how I feel around water, and this inspires my writing, deeper thoughts, and a desire to connect and learn.

Dr. Nichols reminds us that “water soothes the soul” and this is written in the King James version of the Bible, Psalms 23, written 3,000 years ago. Having a bad day, (he says) get down to the water, it will soothe your soul.  This is a deeply ancient concept and Dr. Nichols explains the scientific connection to “why” this happens, in his book. His research goes deep into the water/brain connection.

We make some of our best memories on the water, near the water, with the people we care about. This is true! In your mind, think about the photos you take. How many photos do you have of those you love, that have water associated with them? It doesn’t need to be the deep blue ocean. It was be frozen water (ice) or even fog.

We have our deepest thoughts around water. I know this is true for me! It doesn’t have to be the bluest ocean. Sometimes, on rare cooler days while hiking in the mountains, we can see fog, and it always stops me in my tracks. I never thought of this as Blue Mind until reflecting on Dr. Nichols’ words.

We have our nostalgia around water.

We learn a lot. We reflect a lot.

Our world is simplified around water. Our brain shifts to a different place. A place that Dr. Nichols refers to as Blue Mind.

All of this opens us up to emotions. Sad things. Happy things. We grieve at the water. Many of us cry in the shower but don’t forget that “water soothes the soul” (Psalms 23).

Q3: I wondered what Dr. Nichols discovered when he measured his brain in the water, and his response showed me how far technology has come. They went from their prototype cap, with wires, to now where he said we can measure our brain waves without wires while surfing, kayaking, floating or swimming. I still would like to try this.

If you want to do your own research, go to Google Scholar and type “blue mind, blue health or blue space” into the search bar, to learn more.

Q4: Dr. Nichols explains what happens to our brain while swimming, vs floating, when we are still. He shares that Dr. Feinstein would say our brains can go into delta waves (much deeper than theta) when we are floating).

Standing by a lake will give us this “meditative” state, but most people who have not done this before, might not stay there for 2 hours. Or they might think that mediation is boring. To overcome this, Dr. Nichols suggest, that you can put a fishing pole in their hand, and they might stick around the lake just a bit longer than usual.

Q5: How do we use BLUE MIND to become more self-aware? Dr. Nichols explains that when we are in a crisis of any kind RED MIND (feel anxious, urgency) our thinking narrows and we might feel panic which is useful at times, (it can help us) but it can also (when it’s triggered all the time) lead us to GREY MIND and will eventually burn us out.

So we must learn to rest, relax, breathe to gain perspective. Learn to pause to see things from a new angle. Take a more compassionate approach and you might appreciate the opponent better or learn to understand yourself better. This helps with problem solving and thinking.

IMAGINATION:

When you can’t get to the water, think about water with your own imagination.  We don’t need to go to that turquoise water on the other side of the world. Blue scription is doing blue mind wherever you are. 

I explained to Dr. Nichols during our interview that we had left the deep blue ocean. When we returned home, I completely forgot about ALL of the types of water we have available to us in Arizona, where we say we are land locked. Dr. Nichols opened up my mind, and uncovered a way for anyone to find water.

He would begin with…

WILD WATERS:

Start with wild waters

A river, lakes, oceans 

DOMESTIC WATER:

Pool tub spa showers 

Put a candle in bathroom 

URBAN WATER:

Fountains to sit or walk by

VIRTUAL WATER:

Poetry songs recordings of water apps 

Make your own recording of videos, of water to replay later.

Reminding us that we ALL have an abundance of water, even those of us who think we are land locked.

Q7: When I asked Dr. Nichols about our emotions, or why many people prefer to leave them out of the conversation, he reminds me that “our emotions are the hardest science in the room.” The Science of Emotion is rigorous and complex. He’s now fully aware that the science backs up our emotional side, and knows when this side is ignored, is usually from people who just are not aware of the vast amounts of science behind our emotions. His answer made me feel more comfortable with the fact I know I can “feel” deeply, and to not be afraid of this. I will just keep learning, to understand this difficult science, and am grateful I had this once in this lifetime opportunity to sit down and speak with Dr. Nichols, who opened my awareness up to a whole new level.

Q8: When I asked Dr. Nichols about what has impacted him the most over the years with his study, it was all about helping others. I know his work and Blue Mind Theory can save someone’s life, if you are struggling with a RED mind yourself, (to find peace) and once you’ve gone from RED MIND to BLUE MIND yourself, reach your hand out help others to get through their day. 

Dr. Nichols reminds us that we ALL know someone who is sitting on their couch not sure what the point is, and urges us to go find them and get them to water (of some sort) wherever it is. Take them fishing, he says. Go find your water 

Practice blue mind ourselves first, and then take someone else with you

Reminding us that water gives us peace of mind and heart.

At the end of this interview, I felt a deep connection to Dr. Nichols, so much so, that when I stopped recording, I couldn’t stop the tears. I felt his heart, and years of work with his Blue Mind Theory, and was moved to such a deep level. He understood what I was feeling, and I didn’t need to explain why I was crying. I’m sure it wasn’t the first time that he felt that someone “really connect” with his work.

Looking back now, I’m just grateful that I let him see the true authentic me. Not one that is guarded, or afraid. I had no armor on, was vulnerable just like while floating in water, and Dr. Nichols’ BLUE MIND THEORY message came through loud and clear.

REVIEW AND CONCLUSION:

To review and conclude this review of our interview EP297 with Dr. Nichols last summer, I remind us to revisit Blue Mind Theory, no just this month, but every month, making it a part of our emotional tool kit. Every July 23rd is World Blue Mind Day, and I am committed to sharing Dr. Nichols’ work with new reflections each year.

I ask you, the listener, how do you connect to Dr. Nichols’ BLUE MIND THEORY?

When you feel RED MIND, what strategies do you have to move you back to peace and calm of BLUE MIND? Have you tried using the water for this?

I encourage everyone to read Blue Mind, and keep looking at the science. Keep practicing Blue Mind Theory.

STEP 1: Understand your BLUE MIND (what is YOUR Connection to being on near or in water)?

STEP 2: Practice BLUE MIND and finally, grab someone’s hand, and take them with you to water (where ever that might be). Dr. Wallace suggested fishing. I love swimming. What’s your favorite way to practice Blue Mind Theory?

For those of you who feel a deep connection to Dr. Nichols’s work, like me, I wanted to let you know that there is a verified Go Fund Me Page to help Dr. Nichols’ Foundation continue to raise funds to continue to raise awareness around the world. The Dr. Wallace J Nichols memorial fund was established to continue the work of one of the world’s most important environmentalists and change makers.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/nichols-memorial-fund

I’ll close out this episode with a reminder from Dr. Nichols book to keep learning and perfecting whatever Blue Mind is to you, with his final thoughts in our interview.

Q8: Hear from Dr. Nichols himself about what’s impacted him the most about the mystery within the ocean. While I can’t ever call up Dr. Nichols, and ask him for another interview, which is the sad part of this episode, I do believe that his legacy is an important one, and I will continue to reference and practice his Blue Mind Theory in my own life, as well as make connections back to his work in the future, so his work continues forward, helping others around the World, to find peace with this surprising science that shows how being near. In, on, or under water can make you happier, healthier, more connected, and better at what you do.

REFERENCES:

[i]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Wallace J Nichols “Blue Mind” EP #297 https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/author-scientist-and-activistdrwallace-jnichols-on-blue-mind-the-surprising-science-that-shows-how-beingnear-inonor-underwatercanmakeyourhappier-h/

 

[ii] Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast YouTube Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Wallace J Nichols “Blue Mind” EP #297 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwx1jrHj33c&feature=youtu.be

 

[iii] Steve Jobs 2005 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc

 

[iv]Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast Interview with Andrea Samadi and Dr. Dan Siegel  EP #28 on “Mindsight: The Basis for Social and Emotional Intelligence”   https://andreasamadi.podbean.com/e/clinical-professor-of-psychiatry-at-the-ucla-school-of-medicine-dr-daniel-siegel-on-mindsight-the-basis-for-social-and-emotional-intelligence/

 

[v] Sponge BobTV Series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants

 

[vi] Chasing Mavericks 2012 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1629757/