Ep 42 - Yulia Denisyuk fulfilled her dream when she left her 9 to 5 & became travel photographer & writer in magazines like National Geographic
Hello Wicked Hunters,
Welcome back to another episode of the art of photography Podcast. Today I'd like to introduce to you Yulia Denisyuk.
Yulia Denisyuk is an award-winning travel photographer and writer who turned to travel journalism after working as a US Navy Sailor and a Fortune 500 brand manager. Yulia's work appears in National Geographic Traveller, TIME, Conde Nast Traveler, BBC Travel, Lonely Planet, and more.
For past assignments, she’s shared a roof with nomads in Mongolia, traced the origins of Iznik tiles with artisans in Turkey, and learned the art of Imigongo with artist collectives in Rwanda. Yulia is the founder of NOMⴷD + JULES, a small-group travel company with trips to the Middle East. She’s also the founder of Travel Media Lab, a platform for women and allies in travel media, where she teaches the Introduction to Travel Journalism program and runs a membership for travel photographers and writers. Yulia frequently speaks at conferences and events and teaches various travel media topics at workshops around the world.
She's kind enough to give those who tune in a special offer:
Get your free guide to publishing your travel stories here: https://travelmedialab.co/start
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Yulia Denisyuk 0:00
If I didn't really see any other way, you know, it was just and it really started getting me into this existential crisis almost because I really made it in a traditional sense of the word I had great salary at that point. I was I was a brand manager at a big corporation in the US. But I was just so unhappy inside and so miserable.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt 0:31
Hey, weekenders Welcome back to The Art of photography podcast, where we share our passion in photography and how photography given us purpose and happiness. And today, we have somebody who's not only a photographer, but a professional travel writer as well. Not only she has won awards on both areas, she's also been featured in many, many publications, such as national geography. She's a great artists great friend, and I can't wait to get to know her more. Hello, Yulia. How are you doing?
Yulia Denisyuk 1:10
Hi, Stanley. I'm doing well. So, thank you so much for inviting me to your podcast. I'm excited to chat with you.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:17
Yeah, I mean, you know, we've been connected for quite some times. And I think you know, I haven't really get to know somebody until either meet them or in person or have them in my in my podcast, and you know, you are you have such an interesting and incredible stories from your travels. So I couldn't wait to hear more about it. Yeah, so you know, like, I've heard this story. From this, you're probably tired
Yulia Denisyuk 1:49
of hearing over this story, because you already heard this story so much.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:53
Only heard you once from the from the from the space there was like, wow, I didn't know a lot about you know, more, a lot more about you. And that's why I got you to do podcast as soon as I heard that. So tell me what's sparks your interest in travel? Right. You know, in travel, first of all, and how photography and writing transpires through your life, you know, from your love of traveling?
Yulia Denisyuk 2:25
Yeah, well, first of all, I'm just so glad that we're doing this because I think we both were following each other on Instagram. And then I heard you on clubhouse, and we were in the same rooms on clubhouse. And then we were in spaces on Twitter. So now we're finally on a zoom together, I just love this whole, like, legend that allows us to do this, you know, I'm sitting in Chicago, you're in Bali, and we're having a conversation, and it's pretty awesome. So thank you for that. That's really cool.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 2:55
Yeah, it's, it's been a pleasure, you know, like you say, we've been connected back and forth, but never really have that quality get to know each other. So, and I know, like, I've been following your travel as well. And, you know, I've been jealous, you know, seeing where you go. And seems like we haven't really find a place where you can meet even though we both travel a lot, but hopefully, you know, now that the COVID kind of behind us. It's going to be a lot easier to meet each other. But yeah, I'm so excited to have you here and hear your story because your story is very inspiring. And is you know, every time I hear your story, it's always fuel me up. So yeah, let let the audience know, what is that sparks that really ignite your passion?
Yulia Denisyuk 3:48
Thank you. Thank you, Simon. Yeah, so I I've been obsessed with travel ever since I was little. Because I was born and Kazakhstan, Central Asia. And I grew up in Estonia, actually, which is one of the European countries now. So ever since I was a little girl, I would travel back and forth between Kazakhstan and then Estonia, on this huge train journey that will take me you know, five days all throughout the Estonia, Russia, Kazakhstan. And that's when my lot of trouble really started. I was little I was still a child, you know, and I just loved looking out the window and seeing seeing the steppes of Kazakhstan, the fields, the forests, the camels, because as you go south in Kazakhstan, you start seeing camels and stuff. And that's what I remember. And I will also remember feeling like I didn't quite belong anywhere, because when I you know, I was born in Kazakhstan, but I moved. When when when I was three, we moved to Estonia. And so I didn't quite belong to Kazakhstan. anymore. But in Estonia, I also didn't belong because I wasn't born there. I was from Kazakhstan. Yeah. And so I, from the early age, I had this feeling that I'm sort of in between, I'm not I don't belong to anywhere, but I belong everywhere kind of situation, you know, because Estonia and Kazakhstan, they were really different, even in the Soviet time, because, you know, when I was born in the Soviet Union, even in that time, Kazakhstan was very central Asian, you know, if you think of places like was Pakistan, Tajikistan, you know, even closer to Afghanistan, that kind of culture. And of course, Estonia is very European. So it's very different. And I felt this urge to know different people know, different places and cultures from a very early age. And so, you know, the Slav forester was was with me from the beginning. But when I came to the States, I was, I was 16, when I came here, and I was put on the path that many people go on, which is a very traditional path, you know, as immigrants, we have this pressure to succeed in the most traditional sense of the word, you know, get a good job, get a good education, you know, get a good salary, a house, a mortgage, a car, like all those things, you know, and that was the role that I, I followed, because that was, you know, that was laid out in front of me, but I found myself, by the time I was 30, I found myself increasingly questioning why the hell do I go to work every day. I hated it. I hated all the meetings, I hated PowerPoint, I hated everything doing. But I didn't really see any other way. You know, it was just and it really started getting me into this existential crisis, almost because I really made it in the traditional sense of the word, I had great salary at that point, I was I was a brand manager at a big corporation in the US. But I was just so unhappy inside and so miserable. So finally, in 2016, or 2015, rather, my health started falling apart, my back started having issues, I couldn't even show up at the office anymore, I couldn't even sit down at my desk at the office, that's how bad it got. And I was working at a really stressful job at that point. And, you know, everything sort of came together and this huge, sort of point of burnout and stress. And I one day, I just decided, You know what, I need to try something different, because this isn't working. And that's when I decided to try to become a travel photographer and writer because that's something I've always loved. You know, as much love for travel was developing my love for photography, and storytelling was developing to ever since I was little, I was writing stories. I had my first camera when I was 10 years old. And I was always taking pictures, you know. So that was always there. But I never saw it as a path as a real path in life to pursue. But yeah, when I was 30, I decided that, you know, now we're never try it, try it out and see what happens and,
and go with it. And I did, and I'm so glad that I did. Because I've never been happier than I am right now. You know, doing what I love really having the freedom to work on the projects that I want to work on. And yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll get into it, because it hasn't been easy. Also, it's not it's not as easy and glamorous, but it's as it sounds, and looks like on Instagram and stuff. But still, for me the it's just so much it's worth it's so much because I've never been happier than I am now. You know?
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 9:00
Yeah. Wow. You know, it's it's really funny, because every time you know, I hear you talking, I just see myself, you know, you're just, I could, you know, I mean, our story is not exactly the same, but feeling the same, same way, you know, I left my engineering career for the same reason as well. So I know exactly how you feel. But was there ever a day in you know, from from that time because I just you're telling me that you're a brand manager for a big company and you have this pre comfortable lifestyle? You've made your way up there and you feel like you made it right. Feel like everything that your parents and everyone else told you that dream life? It's like it's there, right? But was there? What was that one thing that really make you what was that one thing that makes you go over the plate right? The one thing that makes you cuz you said that you're thinking about this for a while you already knew photography for a while you love writing. But what was this one thing that would make everything click and make you just run for me?
Yulia Denisyuk 10:15
It was it was travel, honestly, because the thing is that when I was working, and I was back home working, I felt like zombie, I felt like I'm dead. And every time I would book a ticket, and I would go somewhere, I felt so alive, I felt so like, full of ideas full of creativity, full of energy. And the contrast was just so big, you know, every time I would book a ticket and go somewhere, I'm like, Yes, you know, I want this, I am alive, I want more of this. And every time I would come back, it always just went down, down down the hill. And, you know, it was becoming more and more extreme, really, these two lives that I was leading. And the thing is that in the US, and I don't know, in other countries that may be different. But in the US, the policy for workers is really bad, because we get two weeks vacation a year, really five, Business 10 Business days, occasionally years when we get and for somebody like me for whom trouble is such a big part of my life. That's never enough. Like, you know, this, right? It's not enough at all. So I got to the point, it got to a point that I was doing some really ridiculous things. Like, for example, I'm here in the States, and I'm looking, I'm taking Friday off, I'm taking Monday off, and I'm flying to Dubai for a weekend. You know, and just trying to satisfy that urge, somehow. And then, you know, Monday night, I'm back in the States from Dubai, you know, I'm jet lagged. And Tuesday, I show up at work. And I'm like this, you know. So it got to that point. And I was like, There's no way that you know, something has to change, because those two lifestyles were just so different. And I don't tell this story that often, but to be honest, the biggest thing that's put me on this path was actually something bad that happened to me, because in all honesty, it's really hard to quit your job and go after something like this. It's really hard. It's so scary. And if you have bills, if you have family obligations, whatever, like, how can you say no, I'm just going to drop it all and go and pursue the dream, it's really difficult, you know. So I think that's probably if this thing didn't happen to me, I would still continue being in corporate right now. And still being miserable in my job, because, again, it's really scary to do that. But what happened to me was that the brand I was working on at the time, it was struggling for many years, it wasn't doing well, the sales were declining, and you know, in corporate, they tell you that they care about you, but really, they don't care about you, they care about profits, and they need to find somebody to, to put the blame on for whatever's happening, you know, and so the company and my team, I was the person so they fired me, actually, they let me go. And at that time, I had a choice, because I was, you know, this was a really big, reputable company. And I could have called the recruiter and said, Hey, find me another job, you know, because I had good, I had a good degree from I had an MBA, I had a good experience with multiple companies. So I would have found another job really easily. But that was like this pivotal moment for me, because when they let me go, they gave me a separation package too. Which would gave me some cushion to start something something different, you know, and that was really my sign, plus my health problems, plus all the stress and everything I was going through. So that was the sign for me to say, okay, you've been given this chance, use this chance and try something new. And I'm so happy that I did. But again, like just I want to be real with you. You know, we talk about this, quit your job and pursue your dream. But really, in reality, it's so hard, like how do people actually do it? If you have bills, if you have a family to feed or whatever, you know, whatever your situation is, it's really difficult. So I want to be real with people it's not, you know, because the thing is that being a freelancer and working for yourself, it is hard, you guys, people don't want to pay attention to you at the beginning. You have to spend so much time building your brand, building your client base, like all of those things. It is it is not it is not easy. It's not easy. So you have to have some kind of a plan, right? Whether it's savings that you can live on for some time, you know, whether it's doing some part time kind of work that can get you by whatever it is, you know, let's be real. It's not just as simple as quit your job and start working on your dream, you know.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 14:57
Yeah, it's man like, you know, I, I always wanted to get fired.
Yulia Denisyuk 15:04
It really is good. Right? They give you a separation back. And it's so good.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 15:08
I know, I never got that. But it's it's so funny when you say that it's like, you know, that must been quite a relief to finally, you know, have that decision because you're right. You know, I'm single person and I, at that time, I think you know, I have a house. So there is a little bit obligation there. But you know, I could have I was renting it. So it wasn't as big obligation. And even for me, finding that decision to just drop everything and start off by living off my savings is just one of the scariest thing to do, right? Because it's something that we like, for me, at least, I never have to worry about money because I that's the only thing I think about, right? It wasn't about travel about happiness, about your fulfillment in life, it's just about surviving and thriving. And, you know, that was the only thing I ever lived for. So when I have to quit my job, and stop thinking about, you know, surviving and just, you know, try to be happy and have a fulfilled life. Yeah, that's really, really scary, scary, scary moment in my life. But when you say that, I know exactly what you mean. And you know, like, like, like you say, you know, people, there are a lot of promises being thrown around in the internet saying that, yeah, you know, like, do this and you'll be happy. This, I one thing that I always say in my social media, that it's not life for everyone. But I think if you've been stuck in your, you know, day to day and mundane lifestyle, and you love changes, and you love to do on the go, why not give it a try, right? We got nothing to lose, you could always go back to your corporate life, a year after two years, 10 years, whatever it may be, there's always a chance like, you're still never gone away. I think it was three years into what I'm doing this, you know, at my lowest point, I actually got offered my engineer, work back. And I was like, it's very tempting, but I didn't take that. Because you're right. You know, this is if this is what you love for however much you however hard it is. You still going to keep going because that's what energizes you. So thanks for sharing that. Yulia. I know it's in my sometimes it's hard to share our, you know, our difficult stories. But it's good that people can see the struggle behind it. So I'm quite interesting on your origin this right. I know I'm a big advocate for people to pursue their dreams and leave their job, even though it's one of the hardest thing ever. If somebody come up to you and ask that question, right? Well, Yulia, I feel like I'm really stuck in my work. And I have this dream that I want to pursue whatever it is, whether it's photography writer, becoming a painter, whatever it is, but how would you recommend you know those people to approach it? How do you think that it's better to just pull the plug, you know, start off easy and doing it as part time? How do you think people should approach it both mentally? And also, you know, financially, especially for those people who feel like they have a lot of what they call it? A lot of responsibilities that they have in their hand?
Yulia Denisyuk 18:56
Yeah, so that's a really important question. Because yeah, that's That's exactly it. Right? How do we practically do it? So I think, and this is what I always recommend to anyone I talk about on this subject is that you have to start with having a really good understanding of what it is that you're trying to accomplish, what is your vision, what are you trying to do? And that also can be easier said than done? Because sometimes people only know that, you know, I hate whatever this is, but I don't know what this next thing can be. So I will address both of these situations because, you know, you would approach them differently. But in the case that you know, you want to change and you know what you want to do? You have some idea you want to be become let's say my case, I knew I wanted to be a travel photographer that that's one sentence. I knew like I want to be a travel photographer. I want to work with National Geographic, that's what I knew. But turns out that even that is not quite enough because you don't really know how to like what What should your next step be? Because yeah, you can reach out to National Geographic. And by the way I did, and I never heard back from them. Because, you know, I had no portfolio I had no, I had nothing at that point, I was just starting out. So yeah, they didn't respond to me, which is fine, you know, I am not, I'm not mad at them. So you need to spend some time and writing out your vision in the year in three years and five years? What is it that you see yourself doing? Who do you want to work with? Where do you want to be? What kind of work do you want to do? You know, all that is really important, because it's going to give you that guidance to say, Okay, if that's where I will be in five years, what steps do I need to take now to get there in five years, and then start working on that, and start really small too, because again, like you can reach out to National Geographic right away, but they're probably just going to ignore you. Because you don't have a portfolio, you don't have anything. So you need to start at little by little. And you build that by working with some smaller names, smaller brands, maybe smaller assignments at first and grow, you know, little by little. So that's one thing. And then to the people who paid with whatever situation is happening, but they don't know how to get to, or like they don't know, they don't know, they don't have the idea of the vision for themselves. I would say, start exploring different curiosities that you have. Right, because we always talk about find your passion, love Allah. But finding a passion is a really, really big thing. And it's so much pressure also, like, don't put so much pressure on yourself, you know, start small, like, what are you curious about what sparks some interest to you right now, go pursue that, try that, you know, try many different things. And little by little, you will find some answers to what it is that you want to be doing. And for that, you don't have to quit your job, right, you can do that on the weekend, for example, or you can do that at night, perhaps or early morning, you know. So that's that. But then practically, I always recommend to people to have some sort of backup plan, don't quit cold turkey, because that's going to put so much pressure on you. And again, at first. And that's true for everything, whether you're starting a business, a company, whether you're starting as a freelancer, or as a creator, it takes in most cases takes years to build something from from zero to wherever you want it to be. So don't expect that, you know, you quit your job today. And tomorrow, you're gonna get all the clients that you need to pay your bills, because unless you already have some sort of network, some sort of base, it's not gonna happen overnight, like that. So I always say, if that's your goal, if you want to eventually move out of your current career at your current job, either start saving, or start looking for part time opportunities that will still allow you to pay the bills, let's say and do something as you're building this new thing that you're doing. That's, that's a much better way to do it, then just quit and try to figure things out and be stressful as heck. And, you know, get even more stress and burnout for you. Because that's not healthy as well.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 23:10
Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. Because, you know, when you stress out and you burn out, you're never gonna, you can't be creative and you can't create. So, you know, if your goal is to get out of this life that you hate, then you know, if you don't have that backup plan, and you have all that stress, then it's not going to help you. But one thing that you say that I really love, and, you know, I think not most of us don't say Enough of this curiosity, I think that is that is definitely the path to finding your passion because you're right, you know, it's funny, because there's so many times where people, you know, younger people kind of look up to me and ask me, it's like, Stanley, you know, you found this beautiful passion, how do you find it up? You know, I've spent 20 years trying to look for us, it's like, don't, you can't just sit and find it. You just have to try different things and see what really energize you. That's what passion means. Right? So I'm not that you mentioned that. So I am curious, Yulia, you know, you say this, this curiosity. So you know, and of course, from travel, writing and photography made sense, right. And as well as you know, you say that since you were a kid, you have a lot of exposure on this. When you decided to leave when you find that courage to leave that life behind, what how did you get started, you know, into what was the first project that get you started and that gives you the confidence that You can do this.
Yulia Denisyuk 25:03
I'm laughing because my first ever paid article was for a magazine that no longer exists. And they paid me for it hours. And but it was huge for me. No, it was huge, because I was like, oh my god, somebody's willing to pay me for live photos. And my images, like that was so huge. And it was an article on Koh Yao noi, which is one of the smaller islands in in Thailand. And my path, my plan was that, you know, when I quit, you know, when that whole transition happened, you know, they let me go, they gave me the package. I did some math in terms of how long would that package last me. And I said, Okay, I need to go to some places where the cost of living is much lower than it is in the States. In the States. That package wouldn't last me very, very long. So my plan was that I will go to I went to Vietnam, I spent some time there. I went to Thailand. And very importantly, I started building my photography portfolio there. You know, I taking a lot of images a lot a lot. I still have like this huge portfolio from back then it was a six month trip. And that's how I use it. I was really taking photographs everywhere. Because before that, yeah, I was taking photos for sure. But you know, it was a bit more sporadic than that. And by the way, I know a lot of writers and photographers who do it that way who use some sort of a big trip to beef up their initial portfolio with ideas with stories with photographs that they can then start approaching, you know, on these publications when so yeah, so I was Thailand. I wasn't I was staying on Koh Yao noi, I loved the island. It's one of the lesser known islands. And yeah, I approached this publication. I don't even remember how I found them. But I approached them i I said I wanted to write a story about this island. And you know, they took it. And yeah, they paid me for hours, which is really low. I don't recommend anyone to be selling their work for that low. But you know, it was huge for me because it was my first ever paid article. And the other thing that happened that that sort of gave me this. You look for signs in the universe? Am I on the right path? Is this really happening? Like, is there a potential here for me? Should I keep going? And by the way, you should keep going, you should absolutely like not quit because the other thing is that I think people quit too soon. Because we are in such an impatient society where we just want things happen right away. And when things aren't happening right away, we just quit. You know. And, you know, if you look at any stories from actors, any any stories from creative careers, some actors who are very well known to them, and they it took them years to get discovered to have the role that which changed their lives. And all of that, you know, and it's the same for us as well. So where was I going with that? Hold on? I had I was going somewhere with that. Oh, yeah. So the other thing that happened, so the first one was that article, the 48 hour article. And the second thing that happened that as I was going through that six month trip, I was sharing on Instagram, you know, and at that point, Instagram was a much better place to be discovered than it is today, you know, and that could be a topic of another episode, because you know, talking about discoverability on Instagram, it's really hard, right? But I was on Instagram, I was sharing my my, my stories, my photographs. And I was using a hashtag of one of the magazines that I absolutely love, which is a far, far magazine, they are on Instagram to their hashtag is traveling. And I've been reading that magazine for years and years, I had a dream one day to work with them, you know, but so I was sharing my work and hashtag travel deeper. And once one day, I receive an email in my inbox saying a farm magazine reaching out for an interview. And I almost fell from my chair because I'm like, wait, what?
You know, but at that point, they had a, I don't think they do it anymore. But they used to have this column where they would feature in travelers on Instagram with stories, photographers, people who are creative, you know? So they reached out to me that they had an interview with me and it felt incredible to be you know, to do that. And after that, I told them, hey, I would love to work with you guys on some stories. Would you be open to that? And they said, Yeah, sure, pitch us pitch us your ideas. And that's how I started working with a fire magazine. You know, so when that happened when my dream magazine that I've been reading for years and years before when they reached out to me, it was like, oh, okay, maybe there is something here, maybe I have some potential, maybe what I have to say, is resonating with people, you know. So that was really important for me.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 30:19
Yeah, that's awesome to hear, you know, like, I think we don't give us enough credit. I know, I don't, I'm very hard on myself. And we don't celebrate those small wins. But if you, you know, have that small wins, and you put them together, it become a big momentum. And, you know, I mean, look at you today, right? You were writing for a magazine that was no longer there. And you know, so, you know, like, you kept going and you kept going, you know, those small wins really add up? Even if it only gives you that confidence, right? No exposure, no, no money value or whatnot. But that's, that's incredible. So afar magazine was, was the very first magazine that you got into and that was the groundbreaking. believe that's, that's incredible. So when you go into this trip, and this journey, right, into trying to see whatever you're doing have potential. Was there ever a time where you have to choose between writing and photography? Because I know you love both? Was there ever a crosswalk where you go? You know what I think I need, I might need to focus on one or the other. Is that ever crossed your mind? I don't
Yulia Denisyuk 31:50
know if never did because, and I know there are different schools of thoughts on this. Some people would say no, you need to do one thing and do it. Well. If you do more than one thing, you're not doing anything? Well, I don't believe about that. I'm, I am what you call a multi passionate person. Oh, no, sorry, not multi passionate. The word the term is multi potential light, multi potential, meaning I have potential in multiple areas. And the person I heard it from which by the way, you should interview, She's incredible. You maybe you know her, her name is Lola I can make. She's a huge, huge inspiration for me in this industry. She's a photographer, she's a writer, she's an educator, she's a TEDx speaker, like she has a book, she wrote a book, like She's incredible. And on my podcast, I've actually interviewed her. And I was asking her kind of a similar question like, how do you do all these things? Because, you know, you're you're excelling at all of them, actually. And so that's when that's when I heard that term, multi potential light, you know, and people are different, right? Somebody is really thriving, when they focus on one thing and do that well, and go deep in that. I thrive in doing different things. I'm an entrepreneur as well, as are you right? You were telling me about the project that you're working on right now, which is super cool. I am building a company right now, too. I am an NFT. Artist, I am a writer, I'm an educator. I speak at conferences, right? And I'm striving doing all those things. So no, it was never a choice for me that I should do one or the other. And in fact, I feel like for this for my industry, which which is travel media industry, right? I have I have an advantage because I can, I can offer both services to any client be the magazine, being a tourism board, a travel company, I can divorce I can write, I can take pictures, I'm not as good with video. And people have been telling me for years that I should start doing videos, I'm still not there. I don't know if I ever will be. But you know, writing and photography, I'm your person. And I want to say I want to comment on something you said before, which is about being hard on yourself. Man, Stanley like, I'm resonating with that so much. And up until recently, I was really bad at celebrating my wins. And acknowledging how tough how far I've come. And that has really come from the change of starting to celebrate and starting to acknowledge it has come from. I started teaching two years ago during COVID. And I teach travel photography, writing how to get into the industry. And when I was preparing for my first class, I was like, I need a framework. You know, I need some sort of a framework to apply to how I'm going to teach this class like I know what I want to teach but I want to put it into like a package and so frame worth. And so I was looking for different frameworks out there. And finally, I found one framework, which is called Dragon dreaming, Dragon dreaming. And I'm like, what is that? That sounds cool. So I started researching about it. And dragon dreaming is a framework that's used in, in operations in different like consulting circles around the world, and is based on Pacific Islander indigenous philosophy of New Zealand and Australia and you know, Aboriginal knowledge and wisdom. I'm like, Wait, why that sounds like, you know, like, how do you marry those two? That sounds very interesting. So anyhow, long story short, I started researching and the dragon dreaming framework is, has four phases. Dream, plan, do celebrate.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 35:59
Yulia Denisyuk 36:00
plan, do celebrate. And that when I saw that, I was like, Oh, my God, yes. Right. Because I already believe that we need to dream first, right? Like I was saying earlier, we need the vision. Where are you trying to go? Where are you trying to be five years from now? Okay, now, the vision now you need to plan? How are you actually going to get there? You know, what are the steps you need to take, but that's not enough. After you plan, you need to actually do the things if you don't do the things, nothing happens. But even that is not enough. Because extremely powerfully, they say that celebration phase has to be as much as the other three phases. And I'm even getting goosebumps now talking about it. Because in our lives, we never give celebration that much time. Never, we may stop for a second and say, oh, yeah, great, great job. But this isn't the same like dream phase, Plan phase, do space and braid. They're equally as long which when I when I read that, I was like, oh my god, this is huge. And they were talking about why celebration for that long is so important for us. It is huge for our growth, actually, it is huge for restoring our energy. It is huge, like consoling different levels. And so when you said that, like you know being hard on yourself and not celebrating the wins. I, my whole philosophy on that shifted when I came across that because now I'm very intentional on celebrating on keeping track of my wins. Actually, I have a document. Anytime everybody's anybody says something on my podcast on social media, a client I worked with, I literally copy paste that into this document. And when I feel really bad, or something's going wrong, you know, we all have those days, right? I just opened that document and I read it and I'm mine myself. Okay, what you do matters. You're doing great, don't worry, like keep going, you know, all those things. So, yeah, sorry, I went on a tangent, but this is a topic that I'm really really passionate about as well.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 38:01
No, that's beautiful. i I'm having getting goosebumps as well. And you know, like, cuz I resonated with that. You know, I think it's, it's the culture, this fast paced culture that we always need to go for something bigger, right, that you know, if it's, if it was $40 article written by a magazine that's not there, it's it doesn't matter can I think, right, because we see people on Instagram, a posting bigger and bigger, but Yeah, and like, yeah, I totally agree. You know, I don't I only start celebrating because I took a seminar by Tony Robbins, and there was one of the things like, okay, wouldn't have thought, you know, that's the one thing that you know, they talk about, but yeah, it's really important for your mental health. But what I didn't know, though, that we meant to celebrate the same as ending and doing this this crazy, you know, it's, it reminds me to celebrate more because, yeah, that's Wow, it's just mind blowing. I think it has to do with, you know, our upbringing as well. I know for me, I live in a culture where you know, it's never good enough, right? That Asian culture is always like, you could have getting something bigger something more expensive or then you know, so that could be it as well. But he had that's a really good reminder I'm gonna look into that that's a really cool thing.
Yulia Denisyuk 39:32
Yeah, so definitely look,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 39:34
you're telling me this now you know, you started you started falling into teaching during COVID after you become a successful what you call a travel and writer photographer. How did you fell into that? Was there any thing that transpires that make you that that take you into that path or was there a different things That makes you want to teach?
Yulia Denisyuk 40:02
Well, I've been, I've been thinking about teaching for for a while. And you know, it really came from people always asking me the same as on Instagram. How do you work with National Geographic? That's like, number one question. Everybody wants to know that, which I understand, right? And so of course, like, if it makes sense. And so I was kind of tired. I'm just always, you know, answering the same question over and over again, because the truth is that you cannot answer do you work with National Geographic? Or how do you get published national in one sentence? Or in one DM? It's impossible? Because you're asking me to tell you the answer that took me six years to work on. And people expect that like that one quick secret or something, you know, and it just doesn't work like that, right? Like when you're building a career, and it's like this in any field, right? If you want to become a doctor, if you want to become a lawyer, you need to go through training you need to build, you need to do a lot of things. But somehow when we talk about creative careers, it's always okay. There's got to be some sort of a secret or something, you know. So I was tired of sort of always hearing that question, and always giving the same answer. And, but the thing is, I never had enough time to really dedicate to finding a framework or thinking about what I should teach her how to teach it. Yeah. So of course, when COVID happened, and all trouble stopped, we all had the time on our hands to do the things we never had time to do. And so that's when I started, I started with something small, I had a, I had a really small email class, and I still offer that email class, which is like really basic beginner level. And then I wanted to develop like a bigger, like a masterclass kind of offering that will teach you everything I know about the industry. But I'm gonna say something important, I think, which is that I didn't know how to teach. I didn't know if I was any good at teaching. So what did I do? I took a class that taught me some of these things, it taught me how to teach it. So it taught me how to structure a masterclass. And, you know, that's how I built my very first masterclass. And I will say this, because I think it's really important. We are so fortunate these days that we have so many people offering their knowledge and expertise for us in any topic or area like, right, you can go to masterclass.com, you can go to Skillshare, whatever many platforms, and people who will teach, you will share with you anything you want to learn. And I think it's important to use that because there is nothing that I teach in my class that you can't figure out on your own. But it's going to take you years probably to figure it out, right? Because again, it's my experience, it's my mistakes, it's my everything. And it took me years really there. So you can do that. If you don't want to, you know, invest into an education like that, no, by all means, do it by yourself, but just know that it's going to take your time and efforts to figure it out. Or you can sort of get a shortcut and learn from people who have done it, and who are going to teach you everything they know, I'm now in trouble. And by the way to this day, I'm still buying workshops, classes from people because I know like, Okay, I could I could spend a year trying to figure out how to become a better teacher and how to structure my class, or I can save the classroom somebody and do it faster. And in one week. I know, I know more, you know, so I'm a huge and maybe because I'm maybe I'm biased because I'm also in this industry now of teaching. And I know, I'm learning more about how it works. And I love it so much, but I'm a huge supporter of all the different educators out there because I think it's amazing that we can we get to do that now. And there's literally almost no barriers to doing that, you know, which is kind of cool. And I know teach as well. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 44:11
Yeah, that's that's really interesting that you mentioned that, you know, I it's that it's just it's very interesting how that that point that you make, you know, I when I first started, you know, photography, right? I gave myself like six months to be successful. Right?
Yulia Denisyuk 44:37
Meet you. Why like why What the hell meet you Oh, my God. Like, you know what,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 44:42
this guy's like, take photo posted Instagram, they become famous. So six months, I'll crush it. And, of course, didn't happen, you know, first year you know, it's like it's getting better but it's not really what I want it and you know, But I don't think up to now I've been in it for four years. I don't think I'm where I want it to be yet, right. But it's true. You look at people studying engineering, accounting, architecture, they take three years, four years of intensive schooling. And we decide that we're not going to take school, we just cannot figure it out. Because apparently, this is something that really easy to figure out. Right? And it doesn't happen, right? So I really wish that when I started in 2018, I knew all of these courses, all of these people who made the courses because it would have taken me so much less time to get where I need to be to get to where I am right now. And yeah, that, you know, these courses could be $500 $1,000. But how much opportunity that you could have? Get, you know, yeah, I having that shortcut. You know, like, I, if there is one thing that I wish I realized better, when in my life was just that, you know, like, don't be a cheapskate, and just pay for these courses. And, you know, like, I mean, you could start dipping your toes with all this, what they call it from Udemy, and stuff like that. But when you find someone who's been through it, like you write someone who have the track record, and manage to figure it out, I mean, it doesn't matter how long you try to figure it out, you know, especially to, you know, break into Nigeria and stuff like that. Yes, there is, you know, it might take you a long, long time. But also, you might never figure it out, you know, because there's, maybe it's a mindset day, maybe it's whatever it is, right? So, man, like, if you could just look at what people have done, model it. And if that doesn't work, find someone else who's done it as well, and try to model it because sometimes different different ways with the resonate with different people, right? So if you could just do that. And instead of making your own mistake, you could learn from their mistake. Good save you years, should we leave university anymore? Yeah, I'm very passionate about this live this this topic as well. But I'll digress. But thanks for sharing that. I think that is a really powerful things to see. Right? You know, I myself, still take advices from people who are better than me, I still take courses on different things. So and I think that's absolutely important. Because if you don't grow, then you're going backwards. You know, people think that once you're up there, you're just like, you know, it's a paradise. It's not you have to keep moving forward. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Yulia. Sorry, got me fired up there a little bit.
Yulia Denisyuk 48:20
I love it. I love to see. That's awesome.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 48:24
Oh, yeah, I guess, you know, one of the thing that I'm sure the audience would love to hear it, and I'm sure that you cannot say in you know, 510 minutes or whatnot. Because, you know, you cannot just package everything that you learned four years into, you know, 10 minutes. It's, it's crazy, right? You do one one hour webinar, and they expect that you can just do everything, right, it's not going to work that way. But I'm pretty sure there's going to be a topic that a lot of the audience would love to hear. If you could put, you know, even just a framework on how to how to get published or have how to get featured in NatGeo. That would
Yulia Denisyuk 49:10
be of course, that's the question you asked me oh my god, no. Well,
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 49:15
I wasn't I actually didn't have that in mind until you mentioned it. I was like, you know, now that you mentioned it, I'm gonna have to ask the question because otherwise they just be pointless.
Yulia Denisyuk 49:30
Okay, so first of all, the the environment right now is very different from the environment. I was starting out in 2016. Because back then, if you didn't know somebody on the inside, the chances of you getting in there are very low. And here's why. Because most of these brands, most of these magazines, they didn't give any guidance. So just a random person on how to approach them, how to pitch them, how to work with them. And so me, you know, I was starting in the industry with zero, like, I had no knowledge, no connections, no nothing. It took me so long to figure it out. Because I didn't know anybody who could tell me like, even something as simple as who the hell do you contact at National Geographic, you know, right now is time to be starting in this industry. Because all that is changing so much, most of the bigger publications in the US and globally, they are putting their guidelines online. So you can very simply Google how to pitch National Geographic, how to pitch a fire magazine, how to pitch travel and leader. And you will find their very recent guidelines that they regularly update, where they're gonna lay it all out for you, I'm not even going to waste my time or waste my breath telling you how to do it, because literally, they show you which sections of the magazine they have, which stories are they're looking for, what kind of formats? What about photography? What about writing? How do you pitch them, what is a good pitch look like, they're even going to show you that they're going to tell you exact person on each section, like that person with their email address. Before I could never find email addresses. It was like a crazy game of LinkedIn, looking on LinkedIn, looking on Instagram, like trying to find something. Now, it's amazing, because a lot of these have their guidelines. And, you know, when you follow the guidelines, like 95%, of, of you being successful. I mean, of course, there are intricacies there. And by the way I teach about that, you know, because you still need to figure out how to do a pitch that fits in the publication, because not all the stories you will have fit into every publication and that's normal, you know, because different publications have different voice, different strategies, different audiences, and that's perfectly fine. But yeah, I mean, right now, you know, six years ago, my answer to you will be very different. But right now, I think I would say that the first step, know who you want to work with, again, if it's National Geographic, it go on Google, and literally google how to pitch National Geographic, and you will see their guidelines. And that's your starting point. Of course, build a portfolio to start building your start understanding your niche. What kind of work do you want to do? What do you want to be known for? Are you a wildlife photographer? Right? Are you? Are you a hotel's writer? Are you a sustainability writer? Are you a conservation photographer, like what is your niche, because they're going to want to know that and you're going to want to build your portfolio based on that, you know, but for the most part, your your step number one is to Google that guideline, read it and follow it, and you will be successful.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 53:05
You know, it's really interesting, because for the longest time, I want to get my photography, like, you know, published, right. And I was like, it's like trying to search trying to find out different things. And, you know, I come across, like, a couple of different people in my journey that really make that difference. And the biggest aha moments, was that you just have to kind of get in touch with them find who who to get in touch, and get in touch with them with some sort of pitch, of course, you know, that's going to be a whole different conversation of what kind of pitch Are you how you pitch and stuff like that, but it's as simple as that. And that, that really blew my mind. I was just like, Whoa, yeah, like, why don't I do that? Why, why don't I just email them and ask them, right? It's as simple as that. And you know, this is where I think of course, learning it from people who not only know the how, but doing you know, right in it right? I mean, you still practicing this and as you say, you you can if I were to ask you this 10 years ago, the answer would be different because the industry are changing and if you're not in the industry, then you know the theories they want no because things are changing, right? But if you can learn from someone experience like what you say this small difference can make a big difference in your life and in your progress. So yeah, I guess you know, I wanted to pitch you know, you I was in your webinar as well and you run webinars, so I was enjoying that. But I haven't yet got into the Add to Your master class perhaps one day, because I've got so many things in my on my hand right now. But yeah, if that's, you know, we can have this if that's something that you always wanted to learn, right, how to be a travel writer how to pitch and all these different intricacies because I know usually, usually I'll make it sound really easy to just kind of go find that guidance and send it out. But this can be a small little difference that make a big difference. And I think that's where you get a lot of benefit from your master class. Well, Yulia,
Yulia Denisyuk 55:37
sorry. And just Can I add something to what you just said? Because when you said about, like, reaching out, you know, find the right people and reach out to them. It applies to anything in life, really. And most of the time, we have so many like, we create these barriers in our mind that say, oh, no, I am not good enough, or I shouldn't reach out, I have nothing to say. I'll give you a really short example, really quick one. I this year, one of my goals is to develop a partnership with brands where I become an ambassador of a brand or a brand sponsors me. Literally last week, I reached out to one brands, literally, like randomly because I was researching different brands in the photography world, you know, and I was looking at their ambassador program, and I'm like, Why did I never reach out to this brand? So I reached out to them last week. I had a zoom conversation with them yesterday. And so they they sent me an email, welcome to our ambassadorship program. And it was as easy as that me reaching out to them and sending them an email. And I'm like, What the hell like? Like, why was I waiting this long? I could have done this two years ago. But you know, sometimes, but now it's like this, like you said, it's this huge aha moment. I'm like, Oh, my God, who else can I reach out to? What else am I sitting on, that I couldn't be doing? And I'm not doing because I have all these thoughts, or I'm afraid or they're not gonna want to work with me or whatever. Like, most of the time reaching out is so powerful. And so I highly recommend it to everyone.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 57:09
Oh, my God, it's the same. It's the same thing as well. Like, for me, like just reaching out, I used to have such a big fear of reaching out for some reason. And I, you know, one of the biggest mental block that I have was that people will reach out to me, um, that, you know, I'm too overconfident, I suppose, right? Just like, if we put out work out there, people will reach out. But the matter of fact, is that there's so many people out there, right. You need to put yourself in there. So by Live Nation, congratulations. On emissary ship, that's cool. Yeah. So you
Yulia Denisyuk 57:47
know, a lot of a lot of people have that I, myself included, and a lot of people in my membership had the same, like, I'm just gonna put my work out there, and people are gonna notice me. But the thing is, the market is really crowded. Sure, maybe there's one in 1000 chance that you will get noticed by Why leave it up to chance, be more proactive about it, right? Because then you're going to increase your chances of being noticed if you reach out to people. So
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 58:15
absolutely, you know, you gotta make your chances. That's the key word. I think, you know, that's something that also I wish I had realized a lot sooner in my journey. So thanks for sharing that. So we can run into the one hour mark, there is this one question that I really want to ask you. Before we wrap this up, is that you know, when when you started this, and you've been to a lot of different countries with different cultures, right? Look at different publication work with different brands. How, how I want to know whether or not you know, it is much difficult for you to be to do this as a female artists, because I know that, you know, I don't have the experience myself, because I'm a male. But I think one thing that I'd like to learn is like, how is that different? You know, whether or not you ever come across any difficulties? Because you are a female, or whether or not it's never a problem in your journey.
Yulia Denisyuk 59:29
I love that question. Thank you. Thank you for asking that Stanley. And I think that shows great empathy on your side. So I appreciate it. Yes, yes, I've experienced some some things, but the thing is, is that most of them have been in my head, actually. And I've never experienced anything from any of the partners I worked with or any of that, but just a short story that I was on assignment in early Wanda a couple of years ago, and I was the only woman on the on the, on the trip, there was other photographers and right all guys, and I was the only girl. And there was one guy there who was just so loud in every conversation, he was promoting the heck out of himself. Because we were there with a PR agency that represented Rwanda. And they have many clients, they work with other tourism boards as well. So it's, it's good when you have a good relationship with the PR company, because then they will send you more places. So this guy was doing the heck out of that he was promoting himself, he was always inserting himself in every conversation, talking about his work, like he was all over it, you know. And me by that time, I was already very established, I work with National Geographic, you know, I had nothing to prove. But I found that I don't do any of that. Actually. I know, I don't talk about my work, I am very quiet, I don't engage as much. You know, I'm also an introvert. So maybe that's why but I, I remember thinking while you lay a look at this guy, and then I looked him up, by the way, looked at his work. And honestly, it was not that special. But here he is really like boasting and promoting the heck out of himself. And that got me thinking like Yulia look like why are you not talking about your work and yourself? You know. So that's just one example of how sometimes I think we can hold ourselves back. And I know many women who do that, we are also socialized, not to talk about ourselves, you know, really give give, give, be caregivers be shy, be quiet, you know. So it's a real challenge for many women that I know, in this industry included, you know, so yeah, I appreciate you asking that question. Because it's a very real thing.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:02:01
Wow, that's, that's really interesting, you know, because I can resonate with that. And this is why I really want to talk to you, because there's so many in our patterns story are just like very, you know, similar, because even though I'm not a woman of a sling, I kind of grew up in that culture as well. And, you know, like, where, like, you shouldn't, you should, like, if you just share your wins, it can be looked as if you're being arrogant, which is, that's not the definition of arrogance, right. And that's why there was a lot of a lot of time in my head where, you know, I just don't want to talk about my work, or I just don't want to, you know, put myself out there and share the wins. And I actually sometimes have to still force myself to share, like, if I have been published or something or whatever it is, because because of that mentality. So that is really interesting. And it's really good that you have shared, so that you know, if there is any female artists that are listening to this and felt like, they haven't been doing that as much that it's okay to do that. Because, you know, when, when we I think one of the biggest one of the biggest mindset for me was when I heard this, if you're if you believe in your product, and if you believe that your product can make other people better, whatever, in whatever sense, then if you don't sell yourself, then you're not, you are doing that person a disservice. Right? You're not giving that person every chance, like somebody who are worse, which, you know, maybe in your example, there are maybe good at boasting themselves, but they weren't not good enough. And then suddenly somebody buy it, and it's not giving them result, then you know, it's on you. So, wow, that's really powerful thing to share. Yulia so thanks for sharing that. My pleasure. All right. So yeah, do you actually, like teach any courses? We like, you know, for female and like to empower female as well? Because, you know, like, through your journey, is that
Yulia Denisyuk 1:04:21
so? It's funny. You're the second person who asked me that very recently. I you have a workshop on impostor syndrome, and maybe I need to bring that back because that's a that's a big one big topic. I have a membership really, that's the biggest thing that I focused on. So I did two things in my platform. I have a membership, which you know, anybody can sign up for that anytime. And it's a membership for people on this path who wants to break into the industry who wants to start working? I support them in many ways. And I also have this masterclass program. The enrollment is finished right now, but the next one is in November this fall. And, you know, that's the opportunity to really learn about the industry from the ground up. But yeah, I think I might need to bring back that workshop because people people are asking me right now like, and not not so much about the industry but exactly like that mindset, imposter syndrome confidence, you know, because that's really, really important.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:05:26
Yeah, fantastic. I think, you know, that's, that's something that can be very helpful and powerful. And, you know, this is one of the reasons why I do this podcast is that, you know, for those of you who think you haven't made it yet, that's okay. Because, for us, we, you know, like, I've been in this for four years, and I'm not where I want to be right. I still have a long way to go. But I think you got to enjoy the journey. So, yeah. Well, Yulia, it's been a really, really good time talking to you one thing that I always ask my audience, you know, sorry, my, my guests when they come into the podcast, is that if there is one advice, I know, you've given so many advice, but if there is one most important advice that if our listener fell asleep, that you just want them to get this one thing, what would that I love that.
Yulia Denisyuk 1:06:26
Don't give up. Don't give up and keep going. And if you think it's gonna take a year, it's probably going to take three years, if you've got, if you think is going to take six months, it's probably going to take three years. So just plan on that plan accordingly. Be ready to be in it for the long haul. But also know that there is light at the end of this tunnel. Today, I got off a call with an agency and they want to send me to Barcelona to Mexico to send a reefer to Malaga to this and that, and I had to like, pinch myself, I'm like, Wait, this is my life. This is my work. This is what I get to do. Now, you know, and again, it took years to get here and to be here. But I didn't give up. And I hope if you're listening right now, if there's one thing you will remember is that don't give up, keep building, you will reach a critical point at which people will start reaching out to you, people will start to want to work with you. It might take longer than you hope. But it you will get there. If you apply yourself. If you're consistent and passionate, you will get there. If you ask for help, you will get there. And then it's going to be amazing. And then it's like a snowball effect, because now more and more people are reaching out to me and I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing. You know, it didn't happen on year one, it didn't happen year two or three, even by year six. People are reaching out to me, and it's amazing. And I'm still here, I'm still in the industry, I'm still building. So that's the most important thing I can tell you.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:08:09
Wow, that's just so inspiring. And, you know, it's it's the simplest thing make the biggest difference. And I think that is such an important advice that I haven't heard from anyone from this podcast. So I'm so glad that you share that to never give up. Wow, I think I need to, you know, I need to those reminders as well as many times
Yulia Denisyuk 1:08:32
me too, because there are days I want to give up too. I'm like, you know, some stressful days. But you know, we all need that advice from that reminder from time to time for sure.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:08:41
Yeah, I think you know, a lot of us forget that we're doing this not for anyone else but for us. So if it's really makes you happy, then just enjoy it and ride the wave and keep going right? What's the alternative? Going back to your nine to five with you know, giving your stress and backache right it's it's no matter All right, well, Julie, I It's been such an incredible hour, you know, chatting with you learning about your journey, learning about your mindset. I think that's really cool as well. I think one of the things that I really love is just like how you think and how you conceptualize the world. I know I wish we have more time to talk about your travel but perhaps we'll bring you back for a second part or whatnot. But for people who you know, listen to you and I'm sure they will fall in love with you. They will want to learn and get to know your course I'm pretty sure how can they get in touch with you and learn more about you know what you offer in terms of courses?
Yulia Denisyuk 1:09:50
Sure. If you're on Instagram you can find me at In Search of perfect that's dedicated to my photography, writing My career. And my platform where I teach is at travel Media Lab. It's also on the website, travel media lab.com. We also have a podcast. So if you enjoy listening to podcasts, maybe check ours out. We do a lot of interviews as well. So again, in search of perfect on Instagram, and travel Media Lab on Instagram and on the website as well.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:10:24
Fantastic so actually, tell us a little bit about your podcast you know, for so for people who are listening and looking for, you know, some other podcasts to listen, maybe just give a little bit short description what it's about what you guys. You know, what, what you discuss in that podcast and some sort of topics, maybe?
Yulia Denisyuk 1:10:44
Yeah, sure. It's exactly what I do what I teach. It's, it's helping people break into trouble media. So if you're interested in this industry, we have interviews with editors. We have a farm medium magazine editor interview, we have interviews with other writers, photographers, I do solo episodes where I share tips, like how to work with tourism boards, etc. Like, there's just a lot of information there. So yeah, if you're interested in the industry, definitely check it out. It's against trouble Media Lab and find it on any platform.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:11:19
Fantastic. Yeah. So um, I'll get all that link anyway on the description. So you guys don't have to worry if you'd like trying to think like, you know, is that within whatever it may be. All right. Well, Yulia, thank you very much for being part of this podcast and for taking the time and share not only your story, but also your learning as well as your wisdom in this in this life, pretty much. Well, we can hunters, thank you for listening. And hopefully you guys enjoy this podcast, this episode with Julia. She have built herself, you know, a career that she passionate and love. And like she said, it's not easy. It's not simple, but it's worth it. And for those of you who want to be able to learn how you can get your photograph or article featured in you know, places like a far nach national geography. Yulia is probably the best person I could think of, to, to learn from. So yeah, make sure you hit up, hit her up, look up the courses and see if that's the right thing for you. But with that being said, you know, thank you very much for being here. Yulia will close up the podcast. And for those of you who haven't subscribed yet, what are you guys waiting for you will get to listen to more inspiring photographers, as well as creative just like Julia. And you know, any notification coming through Week by week, every time we release a new podcast. Well, Yulia, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for being here and enjoy the rest of your day.
Yulia Denisyuk 1:13:14
Thank you so much, Dan. You're an excellent hosts and great interviewer. I really enjoyed talking to you. So thank you so much for your time.
Stanley Aryanto - The Wicked Hunt Photography 1:13:23
I appreciate that. All right. Well, weekenders. I'll see you guys next week.
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