Torry People’s Assembly putting “just” back into “just transition”

What is deliberative democracy, and can it help your community involve more people in creating a better future for all? SCCAN Story Weaver, Kaska Hempel, explores the idea in this story from the People’s Assembly in Torry, as the community stand up against becoming a sacrificial zone yet again.

The Assembly took place at St Fittick’s Park over the weekend of 28 and 29 of May this year, and it was facilitated by Open Source. It was a part of the multi-partner Just Transition Communities pilot project, coordinated by North-East Climate Action Network (NESCAN) Hub and funded by the Scottish Government from their Just Transition Fund.

Interviews, recording and edits: Kaska Hempel

With special thanks to NESCAN for the use of recording of Alison Stewart’s speech, from the North  East Communities Just Transition project partner Knowledge Exchange event 31 May, 2023.

Resources:

NESCAN https://www.nescan.org/

Grassroots to Global/Open Source https://www.grassroots2global.org/open-source

Assembly Catalyst training with Open Source in Aberdeen, apply by 4th of October https://www.grassroots2global.org/training

Declaration of Torry People’s Assembly May 2023 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LVnCe8YBD4PV1uThl411Ahzfbu1gejtA0LHoro-9eBg/edit

Scottish Government’s Just Transition Fund https://www.gov.scot/publications/just-transition-fund/pages/overview/

Lesley Riddoch’s column on Torry People’s Assembly in The National, May 2023 https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23514047.torry-one-deprived-areas-lose-park-just-transition/

XR Scotland statement on reasons for leaving Scottish Climate Assembly Stewarding Group in 2020 https://xrscotland.org/2020/11/xr-scotland-can-no-longer-endorse-scotlands-climate-citizens-assembly/

First Torry People’s Assembly 2021 report by Scott Herrett and Susan Smith https://www.grassroots2global.org/thinkinghome/torry-assembly

People’s Torry Assembly Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/PeoplesAssemblyTorry

People’s Torry Assembly Twitter https://twitter.com/Torry_PA

Grampian Community Law Centre, Robert Gordon University https://www.rgu.ac.uk/news/news-2022/5411-grampian-community-law-centre-prepares-for-torry-launch-in-scotland-first

A mini-doco by ReelNews "They're killing our kids!" Save St Fitticks Park, including Climate Camp visit to St Fittick’s https://youtu.be/jtvfbc-2GT8,

Friends of St Fittick’s Park https://saintfittickstorry.com/

Greyhope Bay Café in a doco by Sara Stroud https://vimeo.com/639311933

Transcript

[00:00:00] Kaska Hempel: Hello. You look interesting.

Why don't you tell me what you're doing here?

[00:00:09] Speaker 1: What we're doing here, right at this moment in time, is directing people to where the actual assembly really is. But, on the greater scheme of things, I think there's...

[00:00:20] Kaska Hempel: Oh, there's a sign!

[00:00:21] Speaker 1: I think the... how can Torry reclaim the power to make this a healthy community to live and grow up in? That's the main thing that it's all about.

[00:00:31] Liam: Yeah, I'm Liam. I'm just a volunteer for the weekend. So I've not been involved in any organisation. I was like, it's good to help out, but yeah, learning a lot and it's a great community event to meet people that are quite active in activism circles around Aberdeen.

It's a little melting pot. I'm from just south of Aberdeen and I live in the north. I got involved with Friends Of St Fittick's Park, who are one of the main activist groups organising the event today. The green space we're in, St Fittick's. It is earmarked for demolition company called Energy Transition Zone.

My degree was in Conservation Biology, so I'm really interested in the biodiversity here. It's won awards. There was £300, 000 of spending from the council to enhance biodiversity at this site. It's done incredible. Yeah. It's not a very clear cut issue. It involves a lot of discussion around the power that oil and gas has in Aberdeen, who the council is serving.

There's vast amounts of money changing hands. Yeah. It's got a lot of interesting climate and community justice aspects where you go, who is this for? who's it going to benefit? who's suffering?

[00:01:56] Alastair: Sup, my name's Alastair. Well, you can have a badge with it.

[00:02:01] Kaska Hempel: Yeah, unfortunately we can't see it.

[00:02:03] Alastair: Yeah, so I'm just helping out too. I've come up to Aberdeen for a couple of days to do whatever. Put tables up, or move chairs around, or anything like that, just to help the People's Assembly to run as smoothly as possible. It's also, you know, to try and help with... Yeah, if we live in a democracy, then we ought to be able to ensure that what goes on is actually for the best for all people, not for a small minority who are going to make a lot of money.

And, you know, got to exploit the poorest even more, if I've understood correctly. That's what I think is happening. Yeah, if you... basically, if you go over there, it's by the old folks home, by the Balnagask.

[00:02:50] Kaska Hempel: Hello, it's Kaska, one of your Story Weavers. That was me making my way to the day one of Torry People's Assembly at St Fittick's Park in Aberdeen on Saturday 27th of May, earlier this year. We'll hear more from the gathering later, but first let me ask you... do you know what People's Assembly is? Or deliberative democracy?

Well, before I embarked on this journey, I was not quite sure myself. So let me share with you what I've learned as I've dipped my toe into the Nescan's Just Transition Communities project. The project that was conceived last November and with support from the Scottish Government's Just Transition Fund, Nescan, or North East Scotland Climate Action Network, along with several partners, embarked on a pilot year.

Here is Alison Stewart, Nescan's Hub Manager. Explaining the transformative thinking behind it at the Knowledge Exchange Get Together for the Project Partners in June this year.

[00:03:55] Alison Stewart: When we talk about getting to net zero, there is a tendency to limit ourselves and our imaginations. We need to think bigger, we need to think holistically, we need to think collaboratively and inclusively, and we need to think of systems change.

When we discuss what a just transition means, the main barriers to change, to transition, It's that our current decision making processes are flawed. They allow for vested interests to dominate the conversation and create an elite few who determine the process and the pathways to net zero and the changes that we have to make.

The people are not generally represented in this, but if we want a just transition, all sectors of our society, workers and communities need to be involved on an equal basis in our decision making processes. We have an opportunity, while getting to net zero, to create the society that we want. A fair, just, equal, biodiverse, healthy and thriving one.

And we need to seize this opportunity with both hands.

So Nescan Hub is playing our part to ultimately create, over a few years, a toolkit for communities and decision makers. So by the end of this process, we really hope that communities can run these processes themselves. The ideas, plans, and outcomes can then be fed into wider and bigger decision making processes.

[00:05:19] Kaska Hempel: While we wait for the recordings from this gathering to be published by Nescan on their website, along with their reflections on the pilot, let's immerse ourselves in the Assembly process itself. In this episode, I take you along for a visit with People's Assembly in Torry, which was facilitated by Open Source.

Before I headed out to experience the Assembly itself, I spoke to Eva, one of the people who helped facilitate the Assembly with the community. I wanted to get to grips with the concepts and the process in theory. To start, I asked her to introduce herself and share her own journey into this work.

[00:05:59] Eva Schonveld: I'm Eva Schonveld. I live in Portobello in Edinburgh, and I work for an organisation called Heart Politics. Particularly on facilitation of deliberative democratic processes through a group called Open Source. It's been quite a long journey. There are a few key moments. The ecologist did a supplement on climate change, probably at the end of the 90s, that hit me like a ton of bricks.

And I really wanted to do something about it and wasn't sure what. And then I read another article, probably four or five years later, in Permaculture News. That Rob Hopkins had written about the work that he did at Kinsale and suddenly I kind of thought oh, this is great, It's so positive and you know, we can work and make our communities better places as well as doing something about climate change. So I managed to shift my work to be working mostly in that for quite a few years and then burnt out and came back slowly into climate action in different ways, but particularly with Extinction Rebellion, which is where, you know, I first came across this idea that we could use democracy really differently.

I think I'd already started thinking about politics and about how toxic the political system that we have is now and how it doesn't do anybody any good, including the people who are in it. And, you know, we get very bad decisions out of it. And I'm really interested in the kind of emotional and cultural underpinnings of that.

And I think that came together with the Assembly work that the Extinction Rebellion really highlighted. And our group was forming, and via Extinction Rebellion we had two representatives on the stewarding group of the Scottish Climate Assembly that the Scottish Government put together and, you know, had quite a lot of input into that, I think making it quite a lot better than it would have been.

But eventually our two representatives decided to leave because they felt that basically the people who were going to be Assembly members weren't going to be allowed to deliberate properly. The thing was increasingly being skewed towards existing government policy. Which is kind of understandable, but not very democratic.

And so we have set out to explore how Assemblies might be part of a different way of doing democracy. And that's what I'm working on at the moment.

[00:08:38] Kaska Hempel: That's really interesting. I'm already sort of spotting a bit of jargon that I think it will be quite useful to explain to people. So, if you could explain what deliberative democracy means?

[00:08:50] Eva Schonveld: Yeah, it is one of those kind of catch all phrases that sort of means, you know, if you deliberate, you mean you think really deeply and carefully, and I think there is something about slowing down and moving away from the kind of party political Punch and Judy kind of politics, you know, it's the top layer of what we see in government because it's not the only thing that happens in government to something, you know, and here's where it gets a bit vague.

For me, it means much more inclusive, and it means being open to a much wider range of how people understand things and process ideas. So, you know, a lot of what happens in mainstream politics is very verbal, is very written, but that's not necessarily the best way for us to process information, or certainly not all of us.

So for me, deliberative democracy then broadens out into a... really interesting, rich exploration of how can we be really inclusive in the decisions that we make? How can we make sure that we set them up so that people don't get reactive, but actually are listening to one another and to the information they're hearing, and have time and space to really think about and come to shared understandings of what's really going on, and then move towards kind of good better decisions.

So yes, it's a bit of a catch all phrase.

[00:10:15] Kaska Hempel: So you already mentioned the Citizens Assembly on Climate that Scottish Government put together a few years back, a couple of years back now. Can you explain what that involves and how is it different to People's Assemblies or more grassroots driven Assemblies work that you've been involved in?

[00:10:34] Eva Schonveld: Yeah, so Citizens Assemblies are one of the more popular forms of alternatives to mainstream democracy. And they're one of the most sort of clearly... delineated. So with a Citizens Assembly, people turn up because they've been, well, A, invited, and then B, they've been sortitioned. So the sortition process, I don't exactly know how it happens, but the intention is to try to get a representative sample of the population of whoever's being consulted here.

So you'll select for different demographics, for age and education and race and gender. And you'll try and say, ok, so we have got, I don't know, 56 percent of women in Scotland, so we'll want to make sure that 56 out of 100 people in this Citizens Assembly end up being women. So we're trying to sort of build a mini picture of all of us within the group who become members of the Assembly.

And no one else joins. It's a closed group that normally lasts over several weeks. It's normally around a hundred people. And there's a kind of phasing of it where there's input from across a spectrum, which is also really important. So you'll have an input of people with different views, but who have some kind of expertise, some reason to be the people who you'd go and ask about this particular subject that we're looking at.

So that people can compare. And the idea is that, you know, people are presented with these different ideas, and then they deliberate. They talk in small groups and talk in big groups and have different, you know, there's different methods of helping people work through the material that they've got to come to some kind of shared opinion.

And obviously it's rarely 100%, but it can often be quite high. Just because this process of filtering and boiling down and taking time and throwing ideas around together tends to move people towards more common ground, tends to move away from the polarisation that we're used to in politics at the moment.

[00:12:47] Kaska Hempel: So that's the Citizens Assembly and that's usually put on by the government and feeds into government policy in some way.

[00:12:55] Eva Schonveld: That is partly because they're quite expensive to put on, just the sortition process itself can be pretty expensive. So, and it has tended to be governments who've done that or local authorities.

We're very interested in the idea of Citizen led Citizens Assemblies because we felt that the government was not able to put its own agenda to one side when it hosted a Citizens Assembly. And then People's Assemblies are, again, a kind of catch all phrase for like a big meeting. For us to try to bring that together into something that feels like it's a contribution towards something that's really democratic.

The outreach phase is as important as the actual Assembly itself. Letting people know that it's happening. Giving people an opportunity to feed in, to have views on what it is that we should be focusing on. And trying to make the process itself as accessible as we can. It's all part of trying to make this feel like it's legitimate.

And in some ways it can't be. Because there'll always be people who get left out. And so what we see with People's Assemblies is that they're particularly good at generating policy ideas. There may be places where people want to take decisions, and you wouldn't say, well, you know, you guys can't decide to start a community garden even though you found a bunch of other people who really want to do it at the People's Assembly.

Of course, decisions may be made there, and may lead to action in communities. But, in the bigger picture, It may be that, you know, communities can come up with ideas for how their local economies could be transformed. Or what changes of National Policy would be needed in order to make community life be more meaningful and fulfilling, and be less damaging to the environment.

So that's how we're seeing those. So People's Assemblies really good at generating ideas, and if you connect them up across different communities, then become quite a powerful voice which is part of our kind of theory of change. And then you could have potentially Citizen led Citizens Assemblies to make decisions around the kind of policies that have been generated by local People's Assemblies.

So within our movement, we're relatively well practiced in these kind of processes of helping people to think creatively, to listen to one another, to make decisions that lead on to action. But in terms of interacting with democratic systems as they stand, we're... right at the beginning of that. And I think the work that we're doing in Torry is, it's our first step into seeing how this community could get more of a voice that feels like it genuinely comes from an informed position of what people in this community

feel about particular issues and that could potentially lead to change. Torry is just south of the river in Aberdeen and is a community that has been in the news quite a lot recently and it's quite an extraordinary place to go to because it does feel like it has ended up at the sharp end of some very bad decisions over the last 30, 40 years.

[00:16:21] Lynne Restrup: I bought my own two comfy chairs. They're much comfier.

[00:16:26] Kaska Hempel: Oh, yes.

Lynn, who I found at the welcome desk once I got to the Assembly site, filled me in on what it's been like to live in a place treated like a sacrificial zone for decades. Wind was picking up at this point, so there's some noise from the tent flapping around in the background.

[00:16:48] Lynne Restrup: I'm Lynne Restrup. I'm a long time Torry resident.

I've lived in Torry for nearly 50 years. I live in Balnagask Road and my extended family lives in Torry. My mum lives in Torry. My sister lives in Torry. My oldest son still lives in Torry. And I really love the community, but I've seen a huge change in it in the last 50 years. It used to be...

It always had its problems but it's kind of seems to have lost its heart a bit. I think people have got a bit demoralized with having all the good things in Torry taken away from us and having all the rubbish things sort of put in our community, things that other communities really wouldn't want to have.

And It's after a period of time, I think people just get a bit demoralized about the fights. So some of the things that historically have happened in Torry, like we've lost access to the sea on one side of us. Back when they demolished old Torry, the tanks were built for the oil and gas companies down there.

This was a huge part of Torry heritage from being an old fishing village, so we lost that connection with the sea then. In more recent times, we've lost one Primary School, our only Secondary School, we've lost our outdoor Sports Centre, we've lost our indoor Sports Centre.

We used to have more Medical Practices in Torry.

We've lost a lot of our retail in Torry. We've lost a lot of our community in Torry because people have moved out of Torry due to a lot of the changes that have been happening. We had a huge thriving Polish population for a while, but due to Brexit and Covid, a lot of them moved away, so we lost a lot of our new Torry folk, which was a bit of a shame.

And I think once you lose a Primary School and once you lose a Secondary School, it stops young families wanting to move into Torry. And unfortunately, since they've put some of the less desirable things in Torry, like the water treatment plant, the incinerator, and we've lost our access to the sea on the other side of Torry, which with the harbour development which nobody in Torry wanted. We all fought against that but the Harbour Board got its way. So, to lose your part of your history with the connection with the sea, to lose a Primary School and a Secondary School, have an incinerator built right beside one of our two remaining Primary Schools.

Basically, if you were in the school playground and could kick a ball hard enough, you could hit the incinerator. So, Torry's community, we're an aging population. I'm 60 now, so the fight that I'm doing is not necessarily for my benefit. It's for our younger community members. Because it's going to be a dying community, because nobody with young families is going to want to move here.

So, instead of having a thriving population of people who lived for generations in Torry, loved living in Torry, and even when they moved away had really fond memories of being in Torry, we're just going to be seen as a place that people only live in Torry if they have to. And as soon as they get the opportunity to move, that's what they're gonna do, because to be honest, if I was younger, and I'm raising my family now, I don't know if I would want to stay in Torry, and that really breaks my heart to say that.

I personally don't see how you can create anything green, truly green, by destroying the only green space that a community has. So I think the loss of St Fittick's Park is the last straw for a lot of people, and it's galvanized a lot of people. They've thought, well, we've put up with this, we've put up with that, but actually, you know...

It's not, it's not alright. We're not just going to say, okay, well, just lose our park as well, because at some point the community has to say, enough is enough. And I think that's where we are.

[00:21:10] Eva Schonveld: And one of the main things that people say when you go and ask them, shall we do an assembly in Torry? is don't bother, it won't work, and the council never listens to us.

So, that is life in Torry. And basically it's not okay. It's not okay in Torry and it's not okay anywhere else. And so our Assembly is an attempt to encourage people, encourage people who live in Torry to come together and give it another try. And it's not like we're the first thing to come along, but we hope that it may be a way to bring people together across a wide range of different interests and focuses and say, what is it that we can do together?

[00:21:55] Kaska Hempel: Let's just talk about logistics. How does one actually organise an Assembly the way that you're helping people? Is there a set format?

[00:22:07] Eva Schonveld: There's not a set format. It has to be tailor made to the particular community, but that doesn't mean that there aren't phases and areas of work that you can expect to come up.

And the first ones is outreach. I think it's almost impossible to do too much outreach. And we've come up with a completely spurious statistic which is like 90 percent of the work of an Assembly happens before the Assembly. At 10%, well, maybe 5 percent is in the Assembly and then there's a whole bunch of follow up as well which probably is another 90 percent actually.

But I think because we're talking about Assemblies, we can get caught up in thinking about, so what are we actually going to do in that meeting? And obviously that's really important. But finding out where people are in the community, finding out what's important to them, finding out what would make it possible, or even desirable for them to come along to an Assembly.

Speaking to people who are not like me, who are not, you know, who's not like oneself and finding out where they're at and taking all of that information on board to develop something which is going to be as accessible and meaningful to local people as possible is massively important.

[00:23:28] Kaska Hempel: You've been involved in organising this assembly today. Why did you get involved? What

prompted you to spend your precious time, no doubt, because it was a long, long process, wasn't it?

[00:23:46] Speaker 3: It is. I mean, I'm full time work. I have a mum, an elderly mum, who I look after. I have grandchildren as well that I look after.

So I don't have a lot of free time. You know, we've been doing this for months. Every Saturday, all day, Saturday evenings, different events, going and talking to people. It is a big commitment. But I feel it's worth it for me. Because Torry really suffers a lot from social issues.

It's a really poor economic area. It's people with ill health. People rely on food banks. People are really struggling with the cost of living right now. There's a lot of unemployment, people are balancing huge, huge pressures in their personal life and not everybody has the mental strength to actually devote time to this as well because if I was a young single mum struggling to feed my kids, put food on the table, or pay my rent.

You know, I don't know if I really would be that bothered about constantly fighting with the council, getting involved with an assembly in a way to try and bring those voices together. And I feel that I kind of have to do it for maybe people who would like to do it as well.

[00:25:03] Kaska Hempel: How did you find the whole process of going through preparation?

Do you think that in any way helped the community at all?

[00:25:12] Speaker 3: As I said, I've lived in Torry a long time, but even I wasn't aware of all the pockets of really good things that are happening in Torry. I've met some amazing people in the preparation and the running up to this. People who really are community minded, that are really looking at problems in the local area, really trying to improve things.

They're small voices working on small projects, so I would like to think that the Assembly is going to give them a platform for us to find out about more about what they're doing and for them to tap more into the community support. I love the idea of an Assembly because we all feel like what we have to say is not being listened to.

And so maybe it takes folks coming in from the outside to shine a light. And for us to feel that bit more empowered than we were before. So I would like to see this as a jumping off point.

[00:26:15] Kaska Hempel: And you're talking about people coming from the outside to facilitate it. And also to, you know, report on it. How do you feel about that?

[00:26:27] Speaker 3: To be honest, to start with, I was a bit like, hmm, is this somebody else that's coming in and trying to take power away from people in Torry and tell us what should be good for us and what we should be doing and what we shouldn't be doing? And actually it's not been like that at all. It's been the real education.

For folk from the outside to go into a community and actually ask them what they think the issues are and try and sort of say, well, you know, if you did have more help, what could we do? You know, you tell us what we could be doing to help. And actually having anybody coming into a community and offering that level of support is quite unusual, I think.

And I think that they've brought, sort of, expertise as well in terms that we didn't have before. And also just somebody really actually taking an interest in Torry and people from the outside thinking actually it's not okay what's happening, not just in Torry, but in some of our other communities that are under threat.

No, I think it's easy for the council or whatever to dismiss it as just people in Torry just complaining, but when other people are seeing that same thing happening. It almost like validates what we're feeling. We're not just making a fuss over nothing. I met a few people today and talked about some of the issues, and people are actually quite astounded about the really bad things that have happened in Torry, and about the accumulative effect of one thing after the other sort of being placed in Torry.

I think a lot of people came along thinking it was just about the loss of St Fittick's Park, but there's a whole history behind it.

[00:28:18] Kaska Hempel: So that's the work you've been helping with in Torry, is that right?

[00:28:21] Eva Schonveld: Yeah, that's a lot of what we've been doing. So we've got a comms group and a logistics group and a outreach group and we have a programme group.

So the programme is, you know, what you actually do once people, you've got people through the door, what is it we're going to do together? And it's helpful if that focuses around a question. So you use all that information, all those conversations that you've had when you've been listening to people in the community to go, okay, so what are they saying the really important issues in this community are?

And is there a way that we can focus this assembly, so we touch on most of those. I think certainly with Torry, we've tried to create quite a wide question. So our question is, how can people in Torry reclaim the power to make this a good place to grow up and live in? So the question is around reclaiming power, but it's also around health.

It's also around young people. And these were things that came out from the conversations that we had. This is kind of like, there's no point. The council never listens to us. Those are issues of power. So once you have your question, you can focus your assembly. So how are we going to help people to look at that?

How do we reclaim the power? How are we going to help people to look at what is it like to grow up healthy in Torry? What would that vision of a healthy community be? And so you may want to have an input phase. You may want to have people speaking at the beginning about maybe possibly a range of views.

It kind of depends. That's where the Citizens Assembly and the People's Assembly may be most different. You may not need a range of views. You may just want to give people different opportunities to think about different parts and in Torry we've decided to hang the whole of the outputs of the Assembly around a declaration.

The declaration has different parts to it and one of them states the situation in Torry. What has happened and where we are just now. Another part states what do we want to change and who's responsible for that because I think there's a lot, you know, something that as a transition person I'm all about what can the community do together?

And this just has not washed in Torry. I think people do things and they have done things for the community and will continue to. But they're furious with the council and there's a social contract that has been broken and people aren't just going to let that go. So it has to be dealt with. What is it the people in Torry want from the council?

On their own terms, reasonably, you know, with a timeline that has been thought through and is reasonable. So we're not saying you have to change everything tomorrow, but within this reasonable point of view, we want you to have addressed this. So that's the declaration would encompass all of those things.

And then there's another piece of work which is more kind of inward facing, which is what is the community going to do about this? So both what kind of tasks and projects might we want to happen in Torry? But also if the council don't do what we said, what's our next step? You know, are we going to move into petitions or going and standing outside the council?

Or are we going to go and put our bodies on the line and block roads? You know, these are the kinds of things that people in the community might want to think about. And these are ways of reclaiming power. And so it's important that we explore them. And not everybody in the community is going to want to do everything, and that's another, you know, that's another plus, because we can potentially imagine different people doing different things.

[00:31:56] Kaska Hempel: As you might have figured out by now, I turned up on day one of two of the Assembly, which was all about, according to the programme, looking at the issues we face in Torry and creating a declaration of what needs to change, and then celebrating.

By the time I arrived at the assembly tents, the morning session was wrapping up and people already shared thoughts on problems and on things they would like to see in Torry. Each thought carefully written down on a large paper leaf to contribute to the Torry Assembly declaration tree on display. Now, focus was shifting towards the most imminent issue, the situation with St Fittick's Park. I was just in time to catch a walking tour of the place, led by Richard Caie, a member of Friends of St Fittick's Park and the Community Council.

[00:32:50] Speaker 2: Look at these tours, and we haven't lost too many people. Okay. So is this bit staying here, or is it being developed? This bit of stage here. Yeah.

[00:33:00] Speaker 1: And is the proposal then to move the, like they're saying they're gonna move the wetland or something? Yeah, that's the wetlands. Yeah.

[00:33:08] Speaker 2: These are the wetlands.

Swamp reeds look.

[00:33:15] Kaska Hempel: Wow. Yeah.

[00:33:16] Speaker 2: Bone rockes could be in Florida. That one that was up around. Yep. Right. The East Tullos Burn starts its life up in the Tullos Estate. It's all the waste from just water waste. The infrastructure there is 50, 60 years old, so nobody really knows what goes into it. That's a typical colour.

It actually runs alongside the railway in a culvert. And this is where it certainly comes out. And between 2010 and 2014, there was a lot of discussion about this area, a lot of good consultation, and this is the end result. All the wetlands there are artificial. They're all being ploughed out by JCBs.

And there's about 200 yards of reed beds till we get up to the next bridge. And the reed beds filter everything out. And every now and again people come and remove the mud and the excess plants. It does work. If you look at the colour of the water and then our next stop up in the bridge. Compare the colour.

If you want to taste it, carry on, but I would not recommend it.

Right, hurry up at the back there, come on. Right, if you come back here in a couple of years time, unfortunately, this might be fenced off and from here all the way, that big triangle there, that's all going to be an industrial estate. The factory's going to be here, somewhere, and all those trees are going to get zapped.

So it's sort of from here to the white state, it's all going to be industrial, up to the railway. So, this is a very popular area, people come here with barbecues, we've got facilities for children there, baskets, ball, court, nets, that's all going to get zapped as well. So we'll next stop at the bridge.

Next lot of the burn goes under the bridge and we're going to have a look at the quality of the water, see if all this, all the weeds here have improved the quality of the water.

[00:35:39] Kaska Hempel: Hiya, would you mind if I ask you a couple of questions? No, okay. Are you from Torry?

[00:35:44] Annie Munro: Yes, I'm Annie Munro, 1978. I came up from Fife.

No, I like this, I'm down here a lot, with Rosie a lot. I had another dog as well. So quiet and they want to take it away. They took the bay away, they've taken dunnies away. As you could walk up and around. There's a path that comes from here, right up to dunnies.

Kaska Hempel

That's really upsetting, isn't it? Do you think this Assembly today is going to make a difference?

[00:36:15] Annie Munro: Do you know something? I hope so. Community Council, I'm on that. I've been on different ones. But it's apathy. It's because when we didn't have a Community Council when they said about the incinerator. But people go, they're going to build it anyway. And they do. So, what can you do? But I think this is a really good thing.

It's bringing different views, sort of thing. Because before you just sit there in the Community Council and you'll go,

Oh la la, the community councillors are there and you'll say to them, but...

look, see the ducks?

[00:36:53] Kaska Hempel: Oh yes, that's the best thing, it's right in the path. Beautiful, look at all the beautiful flowers in there.

[00:36:58] Annie Munro.: I know, I know, the gorse. They'll come, look. They think they're getting fed. Oh, the water looks so much cleaner here. Yeah, cleaner, doesn't it?

[00:37:08] Kaska Hempel: So you said you're feeling hopeful about this process?

[00:37:12] Annie Munro.: Well, we need to get into people's houses.

Yeah, we need to get people involved.

It's okay saying you're here, but you don't stay here. You know what I mean? We need the people that stays here.

[00:37:26] Kaska Hempel: How do you think you can do that?

[00:37:28] Annie Munro.: I don't know. I stay on the block and not one of them know anything about it and they're not interested.

[00:37:33] Kaska Hempel: Why do you think that is?

[00:37:34] Annie Munro.: Well, they don't come down here. They don't see this. A lot of folk don't even know it exists. My daughter didn't even know this existed until I brought her down.

 I used to come down here most days with her.

[00:37:46] Kaska Hempel: Is it because you've got dogs? You've had dogs that this is a space you can use?

[00:37:50] Annie Munro.: There's a lot of people come down with their kids. I've seen them in here with their push chairs and everything. Yep. Summer holidays it's used a lot more than it is now. This is all going to go.

 Yeah, it's frustrating, isn't it, Richard?

[00:38:04] Richard: Nobody listens. We've got all the lovely consultations.

We've had three master planning sessions. Absolutely everybody there said, no, we don't want it. But, tick in the box, they've held a consultation. I was saying in BBC Scotland a couple of days ago, if they can take this away from a community, then no green space in Scotland is safe. A lot of people live on, sort of, the other side of down nearer to the city so they don't naturally sort of walk this way And, I don't know. We can't really get a lot of engagement going. We've got a wonderful Assembly, been well publicised, but yet, we haven't got all that many people. So, I think it's a universal problem.

[00:38:50] Kaska Hempel: Oh, look at that! That's so amazing!

The flowers over there as well, willow...

[00:38:55] Richard: Marsh, what do you call it, marsh, marigold. And if we look at St Fittick's Church over there, I've got relatives buried there. So it is local to me. Do you have any idea how old it is? Oh, I think 1809 it stopped. But it goes way, way back. I'll tell you the story of St

Fitticks.

Right folks. St Fittick's, Bay St fittick's. He was an Irish French monk that washed ashore. Up to 1906, they used to have a well on the beach and in the preceding hundreds of years it was very, very popular with the locals because it was a holy well and the church clamping down on all this nonsense and there was real trouble, real antipathy towards that because this was our well and they couldn't stop the locals from

drinking the well. As you see, what I'm saying now, even though we're way up, we can't see the sea. So if you're down in the park, you can't see the sea, you're hemmed in. And then, roughly where that big lump of earth is, that's where the new factories are going to go. So that's going to be even more hemmed in.

So far as we know, they haven't done an Environmental Impact assessment, health, Quality of Life Assessment, Health Inequality Assessment. But even if all those are negative, you sort of know we're just going to be ignored. Nobody's going to stop the massive project like this just because you get a few negative reports.

And the bottom half of that community wood, which was planted in 2010, 2014,

is going to get chopped off. And that's where the new wetlands will go. They will abut directly onto the new factories. So it just doesn't make any sense at all. The good news is the rich people who are doing this don't live here, so it won't affect them at all. Oh, we need to be thankful for that . But it's been a great community fight and I think the community will just keep on fighting.

This is our land. Right, lunch onward.

[00:41:13] Kaska Hempel: So what are you guys doing?

[00:41:18] Speaker 1: We're kind of just volunteering to... I think it's general help out. Specifically, we were gonna, if there were kids that were like, 18 to 16, that weren't wanting to sit through that, we were gonna like, take them to do physical activities and stuff.

But, because there's not a huge demand for that at the moment, we're just helping out with whatever odd jobs is available. Which is? Which is soup! We're gonna refill the soup with just the red roll.

[00:41:53] Kaska Hempel: I wanted to go back to the processes of talking to each other. You mentioned emotions and difference, maybe difference of opinion. How do you tackle these? In a meeting that's obviously going to have that kind of diversity of voices and strong emotions in it. Is there techniques or approaches that you use or you recommend people use?

[00:42:16] Eva Schonveld: Well, there's a whole range of different things. And I guess one of the most fundamental ones is having people in the room who've thought about this stuff before. Because cultures... spread a little bit like yogurt cultures. We infect people with how we're feeling. And if there's enough of us who are feeling this is important, we're taking this seriously and we really, really want to listen to one another.

We want this to be the kind of meeting where everybody's voice gets heard. Then that kind of transmits itself in some weird magical way. And so not to say that, well, you use magic, of course. So having enough people who are taking responsibility for and holding the space, who've got a sense of this is how we want to do things.

Creating processes where people get to listen, but not too much, and where they get to speak, but not too much. So using facilitation. So that it's not just the people who are confident, or the loudest voices who get to speak, but where quiet people get space too. And also, creating different ways for people to express themselves.

So again, like I was saying before, you know, some of us are really, really comfortable going on at length with chat. Whereas others might actually prefer to draw, or might prefer to do interpretive dance. And I think we're away, we're away from that. But actually, there is something about using the arts, you know, and that happens loads in other cultures.

When my husband works in Kenya, when they take a break in the meeting, everybody sings. Everybody gets up and sings and dances. That's how you take a break. And the kind of dropping of petty issues and of tiredness. And of distraction and the bringing of everybody into the same space in the same moment feeling like we're together.

That something like that does is like we have so much to learn from other cultures. And again, I think it's a while before that will be the way that we're expecting to do things in our communities. But I bloody well want to work towards it because it's important. It's really important. You know, if you ask somebody, would you change your job next week?

You're going to be an MSP, you know most people were going no way because they know how toxic and stressful that kind of work is, but making our collective decisions should be something that we all feel like being involved in, and obviously sometimes it's going to be boring, but it is something about ways to make these processes feel more approachable, feel more fun, feel more engaging.

[00:44:51] Speaker 3: We are doing some leaf printing to make a big banner for the park. This is a fern. They've all, it's just a bunch of stuff that I've collected up and pressed and dried out. And then if we pop it onto the fabric over here.

[00:45:07] Kaska Hempel: So, how come you're involved in this?

[00:45:10] Speaker 3: I live in Torry.

And, like, the park, we walked around here loads during lockdown and everything so quite familiar with the place and enjoyed spending time here. So I've been sort of involved with the campaign to save the park and I knew somebody who was part of organising this thing and she asked if I want to come down and do like some, I'm also an artist, a textile artist so...

[00:45:32] Kaska Hempel: Oh wonderful, hence the banner.

[00:45:33] Speaker 3: Hence the banner.

Are you coming? Are you coming? Right, I'll show, I'll

show. You can have a go at that.

My hands are

messy. Yeah, I'm not very good at keeping clean with this. There we go. Should we have a look? Oh, that's lovely. You can see all the nice little veins from the

leaf in there. That's very cool.

Did you want to help me?

We carry on colouring in all the letters using the leaves. Does that sound good?

[00:46:10] Speaker 2: If you just arrived in this morning, we were looking at all the problems that Torry faces. And what do we want? On the tree there, you can see the problems.

They came out in small groups. And on the second tree, you've got what we need.

So that's what you miss, young lady. But instead of that, you're gathering all that to just go with it. And we're going to go into a session now.

[00:46:31] Kaska Hempel: After lunch, people gathered again to hear more on St Fittick's Park situation, this time staying in the assembly tent to hear from a number of speakers with relevant experience.

I've selected the most powerful excerpts from their presentations here. Despite being invited, neither the Energy Transition Zone company nor the council representatives turned up to contribute. Instead, Eva kicked off the session on behalf of ETZ, drawing on their contributions elsewhere. She donned a hard hat to better get into the role.

There's a little bit of generator noise in the background, which was used to power the laptop with her presentation.

[00:47:14] Eva Schonveld: Maggie McGinlay, ETZ Chief Executive, said on Radio Scotland yesterday that a small part of St Fittick's Park is needed by ETZ because of its location next to Aberdeen South Harbour. ETZ will work closely with the community to minimise the development of St Fittick's Park But maximize the impact in terms of jobs in a way that ensures ETZ are protecting and enhancing biodiversity and looking at other facilities that will enhance the park overall.

My hat is off, I'm not ETZ anymore.

[00:47:50] Kaska Hempel: Next up was Hannah from Grampian Community Law Centre. A part of Robert Gordon University's Law School.

She's been working with the community on challenging the rezoning of St Fittick's.

[00:48:02] Hannah: So, obviously the planning process, as many people who have become involved with St Fittick's Park have found out, is not particularly user friendly. It is very tricky to use and understand. And it is not made for the lone person. So we have this process, which is designed to be democratic, where we have a new local development plan comes into play every once in a while. And around about 2019, 2020, we had the emerging local development plan for Aberdeen.

But as the new plan emerged, there was very quickly decided amongst decision makers that the park would have a different use. Obviously, things had developed with the port so we had the port taking over the Bay of Nigg and starting to creep, and then the powers that be decided, actually, that park looks just fine for a load of industrial units, so we'll have a bit of that as well. And obviously there's some money behind it.

So, I guess it feels a wee bit like a fait accompli. You know, it must feel like that to the community. It feels that there's no hope. We're done here. It's, you know, the decisions made. But actually, you know, we've been working for months now with the Friends of St Fittick's group to understand what legal avenues there are to challenge this.

And we have got avenues that we're investigating. So, this is not the end. This is very much the beginning. And it's going to be a long road ahead. That's a big process. I've just been through it with another community campaign and it's stressful. And it's time consuming. But if we don't stand up to these things, then no land in Scotland is safe, as Richard very wisely said on Radio Scotland yesterday.

[00:50:04] Speaker 1: Do you want to just turn to the person next to you, just because you've heard two quite different presentations. Just take a moment to think, to share what that feels like, having listened to the person with the hat, and then to Hannah, yeah? What did you get out of that? What were the differences in what was being said?

What were the different feelings with that? Just turn to the person next to you, just for a moment. Yeah.

[00:50:27] Scott Herritt: So my name is Scott Herritt. So I'm here representing Defence Sympathetics, which is this sort of campaign group, what got set up to protect the park. So, I moved to Torry about two and a half years ago, and I can remember going down into the park, and it was just before the, obviously the harbour's been getting built.

But I can remember going down into the park one day, a bit like today, walking down, and it's a really sunny day, walking down the hill, and there's just this natural amphitheater bowl looking out to the bayonet, and I just thought this is amazing. Like, this is an amazing place. And I basically ended up living here.

And so now, if you go down there, that is gone. That is all gone. Even though it's in the water, it's affected the park. And that's what's gonna happen if they take a third of that park and stick a long, big factory in which no one knows what it's for. So, I'm really, really, really angry. And I'm really angry because of obviously what's happening.

But I'm also angry because ETZ Limited decided not to come and look people in the eye. So I actually helped put another Assembly on which was more focused on basically looking at this idea of a community asset transfer of the park. And two years ago we asked them to come and present their plans.

And they said that the plans weren't ready so they didn't want to come. Since that time, it's been two years, and they've said exactly the same thing. So, I'm going to leave that up to your own conclusions, like what that actually means. It's not about any transition, it's about a private land grab of our land, of public land.

We all own this land, collectively, in common. That is what it's about. And that happens, not just in Aberdeen, that happens across the world. And we need to stop that, and the only people who are going to stop that is people like you. And I appreciate there's people, there's a mixture of people in from Torry and from outside of Torry.

This is happening in your communities as well. But the only way to change that is... likes of you getting together, wherever your communities are, and trying to sort of do something about it, and not relying on people in suits, in big offices to try and do something about it. It's only going to change if we do something about it.

As you probably can recognise from my voice, I'm not from Aberdeen, I'm from Grimsby. And so Grimsby's a place where it's like transitioned, and it's transitioned from fishing to basically nothing. And so it's had a big impact on parts of town which I grew up in. And so I think I just wanted to sort of highlight is that the Friends of St Fitticks support the real need for an energy transition and this idea of a just transition. And Aberdeen itself has gone through lots of different transitions. So, you've had like, obviously you had the granite industries, the ship building industries, the mills, the fishing, and then obviously you went into oil.

And so all those transitions have been imposed on the people, and the people have been in control of those transitions, essentially the same people who want to control this transition now. We have to find a way to control that and direct it so it's actually to the benefits and to the needs of people.

So whatever comes next, we need to try to find a way that we're sort of part and parcel of what happens. And I think, why not start that in here, in Torry? This, what we're doing today. That's what should happen. It should happen everywhere. So that's what I'm going to say.

I'm just wondering, do you want to say anything?

[00:54:18] Speaker 1: It really angers me that we've been selected yet again to sacrifice our space and our heritage and our nature for money, and I'm really pissed off about it. Sorry, I get a bit emotional.

If you all know me, you know I do cry a bit. So to say we are now responsible for Aberdeen's thriving economy if this zone goes ahead, and that's a hell of a responsibility to put on the community. If you don't give us this, Aberdeen won't fall. That is the message that we've been getting.

[00:54:57] Adrian Croft: My name is Adrian Croft and I'm a GP. I am the Clinical Lead at Torry Medical Practice. I'm the director of the Ribbidy Medical Group, which owns the practice. So, a couple of years ago, me and my colleagues decided we needed to write an open letter. Addressed essentially to the council and to the Scottish Government.

To explain why we were astounded and shocked at the decision to change the planning regulations and to plan for industrialization of the park. We have, sadly a life expectancy that's like 13 years less than the West End in this area of Banagas. You have a healthy life expectancy, more than 20, 25 years even, compared with the rest of the city, second to the West End. I mean, those are massive, massive differences.

But the evidence internationally shows that the benefits of green space are most marked in communities that have the worst health. The Scottish Government has polished hugely on green space, on the benefits of green space.

We urgently need massive investment for the energy and industrial transition. But this is not the technology to do it. This is not the place to do it. And this is definitely not the way to do it. I mean, we'd love to see our money going into technologies that are proven. Things that can deliver immediate, tangible benefits to our local communities. Like insulating our houses. The houses here are frequently very small, very cold, very damp.

So... they could quickly do something there that would massively improve insulation, for instance, in the community. And how cheap compared to the money they're pouring into this.

[00:56:50] Kaska Hempel: This is, of course, just a very short snapshot of the process, and only some of the issues that we're focused on. The afternoon continued to explore questions about why these problems keep happening, and how can Torry reclaim the power to make this a healthy community to grow up in?

Amongst all of the presentations, there was a lot of conversation and contribution from the audience. The format was varied across the day, and many voices were heard and recorded, just like Eva promised. The proceedings were also beautifully summarised in visual notes by Graphic Artist Rosie Bailuzzi.

You can see some of that record on the Torry People's Assembly social media channels which I linked in the show notes. At the end of the day, I asked a couple of others what they thought about the process.

[00:57:45] David McCubbin: My name is David McCubbin. I work for Third Sector Interface. Moray. Just started last month. I'm a Project Coordinator with a Just Transition project in Moray, which is part of the wider Aberdeenshire, Aberdeen City. A project that's been coordinated by Nescan.

I've come here today to volunteer just to help set up and man the welcome desk but also just to see how an Assembly works and learn because although we're not doing Assemblies, we are doing deliberative events with the different communities in Moray that want to engage and have those conversations about whatever it might be and it isn't this top down, you know, whether it's government or councils or an organisation, so it's trying to get people involved so that they feel part of the process and the decision making.

It's very easy for people to not want to engage or say, well there's no point in being involved because I'm not going to make a difference but if we can show that you can make a difference it will inspire people and I think communities are looking at other communities to see what are they doing and then that spurs them on it's that kind of snowball effect.

[00:58:52] Kaska Hempel: What's the most useful thing you saw today and during the day?

[00:58:55] David McCubbin: What I really like about it is it feels very friendly and informal. There's no barriers. It's open to all. There's the entertainment for the children. There's nobody suited and booted. It just feels accessible to everybody. And you could see some people were coming on their own and people would go up and speak to them.

So you were given the opportunity to mingle. But nothing's forced and nobody's being made to say or do anything they don't want to. I know sometimes when I go to things and you think I just want to listen. I don't necessarily want the spotlight shining down on me or to be, you know, given a mic to go up in front of everybody because there's the opportunity to write stuff down, you know, the trees they're doing and the leaves and it's sort of open to all because this isn't everybody's cup of tea.

And this is really nice as well, outdoors. And, you know, they're in the place that one of the biggest challenges being faced at the minute and it's not just sort of in a community hall somewhere, it's here and the fact they did the tour earlier and that was really well attended so you could see this is where the proposals are.

I like the fact as well it's drop in and out so you can come for the whole day and I know ideally that's what you want. Actually some people might come and think oh I'll just, I'll drop in briefly and then oh this is all right actually and I'm gonna stay and then they stay and then they might come back tomorrow.

[01:00:10] Sarah Stroud: My name is Sarah Stroud and I'm a filmmaker. Yeah, so my feeling was like sometimes it felt like I was in group therapy. So it was really interesting like I loved when the chap speaking about psychotherapy and like for me I was really aware of the layers of the connections we have with the past and how we relive the cycles of things. I was just really aware of it being quite a therapeutic space. And how, you know, you're being given time so that you can speak and then people listen. Like that's something that you do quite often in 12 step programmes. It felt like really quite safe and a really nice nurturing space.

[01:00:47] Fiona McIntyre: Yeah, and you were allowed to be angry you know, I was saying that I felt like I was picking up on people's emotions and feeling things that I didn't think I expected to feel but through that process probably have healed a little bit as well, like kind of, or at least there's a sense that there's people to share with. Kind of thing, like, yeah.

My name's Fiona McIntyre. I run Greyhawk Bay, which is a local charity in Torry that aims to connect communities with our coast and heritage. We have a cafe up in Torry Battery, which has the best view of bottlenose dolphins. Because this is the community we serve, it's really important to us that maybe we can share what we have been able to do, but also just to kind of really get to know what are the issues and really...

Yeah, I kind of support the community in that, and even just in listening. And again, seeing the children and the old men, like, seeing the cross section of, like, so many different people, and also people that have travelled up for the event.

[01:01:49] Kaska Hempel: Right, we're interfering with serving of dinner, so we probably should back out.

But thank you for chatting.

That was the Assembly gathering. Lots and lots of going on in it. The second day was... It's equally busy with its focus on hearing input on how from local experience and then discussing strategies, next steps, and drafting an action plan. According to Rosie's graphic record, by the end of the assembly, a few ideas for practical action started emerging.

From community litter picks, basketball tournaments and nature activities at the park to raise awareness and make it an irresistible place for all in Torry, to door knocking campaigns to reach people in their own homes, discussing heating costs and time banking ideas, to a vision for a community led Torry Retrofit Project, creating local jobs alongside warmer homes.

Of course, the Assembly was just one point in the journey for this community. As someone said on the day, it's a long journey, and this is only the beginning, and there's been many beginnings. But it'd be interesting to see how this beginning may go forward. I asked Eva to comment on what needs to happen next for such people led Assemblies to turn into productive beginnings.

[01:03:15] Eva Schonveld: We talk about there being three main pathways. So, pathway one is what the community could do for itself. Pathway two is like stuff that we want to happen that needs to interact with current power holders. That might be the council, that might be national government, that might be funders. But these are things that are going to take more work and more preparation.

Pathway three is a really interesting pathway that's sort of imaginary at the moment, which is to do with the kind of things that I've been saying is like, what could communities achieve? If they decided to step into responsibility for decision making. What could we achieve together if we connected our Assemblies and used deliberation to have really, really juicy, generative conversations about how we could do things really differently.

How we could change our communities and change our way of life in a way that means everybody gets their basic needs met. Which they currently don't, and also where we're not polluting the planet that we rely on to survive. These are kind of absolutely crucial questions of the moment, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be us in the places that we live who come up with the responses to that.

Because fundamentally... that's what humans are for. Humans are for living in a place, having families and friends, and cooperating and collaborating with the natural world. We've given our power away to this kind of system, which feels impenetrable, and it also feels inevitable, because it's all we've ever known.

But it's not how humans have always lived. We cannot continue to live like this. And we all know that. There's got to be changes. And to be kind of creative and collaborative and cooperative in how we make those changes so that people don't get hurt in the process. Feels like, well, this is the window that we've got to do it that way.

And it's much better than the alternatives.

[01:05:19] Kaska Hempel: Great. Yes, great call to action. So, organising something like this, it sounds really involved as a process. Is there help available, or funding?

[01:05:31] Eva Schonveld: I think this is one of the really big stumbling blocks with this whole thing, is that it takes a lot to organise and there isn't currently money around for people to do Assemblies.

It may be that as a result of this... Scottish Government will extend, because this is coming from Just Transition funding, which is being piloted in the North East and may be rolled out across the whole country. They may decide that Assemblies are a good thing, community run Assemblies, are a good thing, so there may be money coming from that.

And there may be money coming through the climate hubs. If communities are saying, we want to have Assemblies, and this is what we're applying for grants to do, if the hubs think that those are important, then they would be able to put funds that way. And the last thing I would say is that we've got a training and we're planning to run a training up in the North East.

Basically, it's an assembly catalysts training. It's for people who might then go off and set up a steering group and do all this kind of outreach. And we're going to develop, hopefully, if we get the funding, next year, a facilitators training, which we would work with Go Deep, who's another one of the partners in the NESCAN process.

[01:06:41] Kaska Hempel: How do you take... the ideas forward. Do you have any feeling for that and what would be the most powerful thing that people can do or an outcome from an Assembly that can happen?

[01:06:53] Eva Schonveld: Well, this Assembly in Torry will have this declaration that will include a plan. Or at least the beginnings of a plan for how we're going to move forward.

And that might include small local initiatives that local people have, you know, discovered that there's other people who are keen on whatever it is. And also requests or slash demands to the council of things that need to be taken up in Torry. And all of that requires following up. And so for a big chunk of the money that we're putting forward for years two and three is for somebody to work in Torry basically to drive forward the outcomes of the Assembly.

Because before we went to Torry, we just had no sense of how little capacity there is in some communities who just had the stuffing knocked out of them. And while there might be, there might be a group of people who could just carry on, just kind of integrate this with the work that they're already doing for nothing on behalf of the community.

And I expect that is what will happen to begin with. There's a real need to have resource for individuals or small groups who can take things forward on behalf of their communities. Being fed into by these broad community led processes.

[01:08:14] Kaska Hempel: This is by no means an exhaustive guide in deliberative democracy.

So if you're interested in learning more about how this kind of work can help your own community, NESCAN will be shortly publishing a set of resources relating to the first round of deliberative democratic process pilots across the communities in the North East, including... the community led Assemblies like the one in Torry.

You can also join assembly catalyst training in Aberdeen starting on the 6th of October. SCCAN has invited Open Source to additionally deliver such training across Scotland in January, so look out for registration details coming out on our channels later this year. I've put the relevant links in the episode notes for you, including more information about the ongoing fight to save St Fittick's Park. I'm fascinated to find out how this story unfolds in the future. I'll leave the last words today to Torry Bears, knitted by Lynne for her table at the welcoming tent.

[01:09:18] Lynne Restrup: So, there's just a bit of a play on the word Torry. We are the Torry Bears. It is our territory and we love its history. Please share your own story at Torry People's Assembly.

Together we can be victorious. It's just a bit of fun to show that it's not all serious and doom and gloom. We can have a laugh for ourselves.

[01:10:01] Kaska Hempel: Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please give it a like and share it with others. It'll really help us reach a wider audience. If something exciting is happening in your own community, be sure to let us know so that we can help you tell your own story. You can drop our Story Weavers a line at stories at SCCAN.scot.

It's SCCAN, S C C A N. scot S C O T

We also offer training and mini grant support to community storytellers. To keep up to date with our offerings and everything SCCAN, check out our website at SCCAN. scot or find us on Twitter, Facebook or Instagram. Or simply sign up to the newsletter.