In episode 312, Kestrel welcomes Denali Jöel, a non-binary Multidisciplinary Artist, Designer, Educator and Fashion Griot, to the show. Born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica, Denali has been an asylee living in the US since 2014, recently obtaining their U.S. citizenship this year. Their art praxis intersects design, performance, media and community engagement with particular focus on queer identities and Afro-diasporan histories, futures, collective healing, and radical imagination.
“It comes back to us as an individual but also as a collective to recognize that we need to shift our own relationship to fashion and with fashion as a tool for the ways in which that we show up, the ways in which we disrupt our own oppression. I think we place so much emphasis on calling out and asking industry to do better and I’m just like — the industry is actually operating the way it’s supposed to, like it was built. Again, when you think about whose imagination we are living in, that is the imagination. And so, when we force folks to shift, are we just bullying them into performing a version of change or is it possible that we could create new ecosystems within our own selves — and using the resources available to us — but creating that shift and slowly moving away from industry and start thinking more about ecosystems.” -Denali
This is THE FINAL EPISODE of Season 6. Launched in February of 2022, this season has taken us on a journey – and here we are, arriving at the 52nd episode of this era of Conscious Chatter.
Over the last two years on the show, we have questioned so much of how the fashion industry operates, and really dove into unique ways that individuals, companies and initiatives are working to basically unlearn *the way fashion has been done* and relearn new ways of reimagining its future.
This final episode of the season feels really important to me – as it’s the last show that will be oriented in this way. As Nat and I have teased a bit here and there, we have a fresh approach to Conscious Chatter coming to you with Season 7. :)
But with this immense feeling of wanting to culminate Season 6 in an extra meaningful and circular way, I sat and questioned for quite some time who could provide that sort of grounding presence. When I thought of this week’s guest, I felt instantly at ease and an all-encompassing feeling of warmth and hope surrounded me. They were the person that could help us close out this season. It may sound a bit airy fairy, but this episode feels like a massive hug to me – I hope you feel it too.
In today’s world, we hear the word INTENTIONAL thrown around a lot. It’s one of those words that has taken hold in recent years and become a go-to. While we see its use on a consistent basis, I’m not entirely sure whether we’re seeing its meaning carried out in practice.
What is the definition of INTENTIONAL?
According to Dictionary.com, it is defined as: done with intention or on purpose.
In order to do something with intention, there is almost undoubtedly a need to slow down and become more present and tuned into that process. As we know, slowing down is not really something the systems around us are advocating for.
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t folks out there truly taking the meaning of intentionality to heart and very thoughtfully putting it into practice.
I say it in our chat, but I’ll say it again – this week’s guest takes intentionality to the extreme, in the most beautiful way. They also consistently resist the systems around us by working to reimagine their own approaches and value indicators outside of the vacuum as much as possible.
For example, they approach fashion and costume design as an art praxis that is rooted in intentionality, sustainability and social equity, and that is guided by three Afro-Indigenous philosophies.
Instead of commodifying it, they have and continue to use fashion as a tool to slowly further discover themself. But what I love about how they communicate is they are not only talking about themself as an individual, but also being a Black Queer person, they are telling stories as a part of a larger community of intersections, brimming with collective histories, present circumstances and collective futures.
Quotes & links from the conversation:
“The more I matured, the more I realized that external validation was very fickle and fleeting. And so, it came now to — when I look in the mirror, do the clothes that I wear, does my appearance uplift and reverence the divine feminine and the divine masculine that lives within me?” -Denali (25:07)
“Because of me and my own intersections, the work that I do is constantly in conversation with who I am and my positionality in society — the areas within which I feel marginalized and also the areas within which I feel liberated. And so, I want to ensure that I’m making space for that and holding the past, the present, and the future within me. And so, being a griot is essentially that — it’s acting as an archive, as a vanguard of sorts, you know protecting and advancing the stories of who I am as an individual but also as a collective body — centering and amplifying the Black femme, shifting the balance to us recognizing that Queer folks, especially those at the intersection of being Black and Queer are diviners historically — reclaiming all of that. And so, being a griot was important to me because like you said, I’m a storyteller and I think it hit me when I realized the vicissitudes I’ve had to survive in my life are to kind of give me and provide me with all of these stories — these stories that again, through the Ubuntu principle are not just for me, but they’re for the collective, they’re for everyone.” -Denali (31:52)
“Parable Of The Sower”, book by Octavia E. Butler that Denali references connected to their upcoming project in collaboration with The New Children’s Museum in San Diego, CA
“Songs Of The Gullah” — a fashion film by Denali
Denali’s Website
Follow Studio Asa >
Follow Denali on Instagram >
Wafa Ghnaim of Tatreez and Tea & Dr. Tanveer Ahmed of Central Saint Martins on preserving culture, decolonial frameworks, and how intersectional reform can be a pathway toward sustainable fashion futu
Sustainable fashion podcasters unite — Emily Stochl of Pre-Loved Podcast & Stella Hertantyo of Conscious Style Podcast help us reflect on 11 years since Rana Plaza, celebrating collective movements
Upcycling artists Francisco Alcazar & Ella Wiznia of Series NY are redefining sustainable fashion while reimagining craft & challenging the gender binary
How gender plays into the devaluing of knowledge and its links to sustainable fashion & wellness with Megan Schnitker of Lakota Made and Niha Elety of Tega Collective
Celebrating the cultural tradition, past and present, of Palestinian Tatreez with artists / educators Lina Barkawi and Eman Toom & why sustainable fashion must include cultural sustainability
Intergenerational knowledge & sustainable fashion — how clothing is more than just aesthetics; it’s about the upholding of cultural practices and the amplifying of knowledge & traditions
Vintage stylist Beth Jones & Dounia Wone of Vestiaire Collective on whether fast fashion brands fit into the resale experience
Why self work is integral to advocating for transformation in fashion & why we must deeply question our personal values to truly get active in creating a more sustainable fashion future
Julius Tillery aka the "Puff Daddy Of Cotton" on the need to remix both the perception of the cotton industry and the business model
Cassandra Pintro of Consumption Project on welcoming her community to challenge their buying habits and question what is *enough*
Jeanell English on navigating the pressure to project a certain image in business & across climate spaces and balancing the worlds of activists & execs as a leader in impact
Muchaneta Ten Napel on utilizing tech as a tool to change how fashion does business, not a crutch that will *save us all* & preparing for the fashion policy changes that are on the horizon
*Breaking It Down* with Rachel Arthur, lead author of The Sustainable Fashion Communication Playbook, an actionable guide co-published by UNEP and UN Climate Change
Tameka Peoples of Seed2Shirt on rebuilding equitable + just cotton systems & fostering the reclamation of cotton acreage for Black farmers
Lisa Diegel, Global Sustainability Director, on Faherty's Native Initiatives, what mutually beneficial relationships can look like in practice, and the nuanced ways brands must take responsibility for
Eric Liedtke of UNLESS on pressing fashion to ditch the plastic ingredients and ideating on what it will take for corporations to truly change
A new era of storytelling at Conscious Chatter, meet our newest team member Natalie Shehata & what slow media means for us in practice
Jessie Frances (@cappuccinosandconsignment) on the complications with resale's *moment* — fast fashion addictions becoming secondhand addictions, luxury's obsession with exclusivity & the gentrifica
Winona Quigley of Green Matters Natural Dye Company on reimagining what *scale* means for natural dyeing & how accessibility and limits also play into the idea of *growth*
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