Our guest in this episode is Patrick van der Burght, one of the world's leading experts in the science of ethical persuasion. After a challenging start as a sales rep for a product with a terrible reputation, Patrick discovered the powerful work of Dr. Robert Cialdini, using its principles to turn that product into a market leader. He now dedicates his work to teaching business owners a proven framework for building stronger connections and achieving their most important outcomes with complete integrity.In our...
Our guest in this episode is Patrick van der Burght, one of the world's leading experts in the science of ethical persuasion. After a challenging start as a sales rep for a product with a terrible reputation, Patrick discovered the powerful work of Dr. Robert Cialdini, using its principles to turn that product into a market leader. He now dedicates his work to teaching business owners a proven framework for building stronger connections and achieving their most important outcomes with complete integrity.
In our fascinating chat, we explored the science of human decision-making and the critical difference between honest influence and dishonest manipulation. Key points discussed include:
* Ethical persuasion builds long-term success; manipulation is a short-term win that ultimately leads to disaster.
* True influence comes from highlighting genuine facts, not inventing falsehoods to create artificial pressure.
* Understanding the seven universal principles of persuasion helps you build genuine trust and guide decisions ethically.
Listen to the podcast to find out more.
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Show Notes from this episode with Patrick van der Burght
It was an absolute honour to welcome Patrick van der Burght, one of the world's leading experts in the science of ethical persuasion, to the InnovaBuzz podcast. As business owners, we pour so much of ourselves into our work, yet often feel like we're guessing when it comes to getting the cooperation and compliance we need to succeed. Patrick pulled back the curtain on this exact challenge, revealing that influence isn't an art form reserved for a select few; it's a science that any of us can learn to apply, ethically and effectively.
Our conversation illuminated a powerful truth: you can significantly increase the number of "yeses" you receive without twisting arms or compromising your integrity. It’s about understanding the psychology of human decision-making and learning how to formulate your requests in a way that makes it easier for people to agree. Patrick’s passion for this topic is infectious, born from a deep-seated compassion for hardworking entrepreneurs who are leaving success on the table simply because they don’t yet know this proven framework.
The Dry Suit Epiphany: From Being Laughed At to Market Leader
I was fascinated by Patrick's own origin story in persuasion science. As a young sales rep in the scuba diving industry, he took on a brand of dry suits that had a disastrous reputation; the year before, they had all leaked. When he presented the new, improved product to his retailers, they literally laughed at him. He had a great product, but a total lack of trust in the market. It was a classic business nightmare.
Facing this challenge, he dove into the work of Dr. Robert Cialdini and began applying the universal principles of persuasion. By strategically and ethically bringing the right facts to the surface, he was able to rebuild trust and reframe the conversation. The result? In just 18 months, that once-mocked dry suit became the market leader. That experience converted Patrick for life, proving that this science had the power to turn even the most difficult situations around.
Walking the Ethical Tightrope: Persuasion vs. Manipulation
Patrick was crystal clear on a point that I know concerns many of us: the fine line between ethical persuasion and outright manipulation. He offered a brilliant litmus test. Unethical persuasion, like the shoe salesperson lying about having the "last pair," involves importing falsehoods into a situation to pressure a decision. It might create a short-term win, but it inevitably leads to long-term disaster once the deceit is discovered.
Ethical persuasion, on the other hand, is about bringing naturally occurring truths to the surface. If the TV you want truly is the last one in stock, you as the customer want to be told that information to make an informed choice. The key is honesty. Ethical influence is not about creating false scarcity or pressure; it's about highlighting genuine facts that help someone make a better, easier decision that serves their own interests.
The Three 'Cancers' of Unethical Influence
Going a step further, Patrick shared the devastating long-term costs of fostering a dishonest culture, which he powerfully described as "three cancers." The first is the stress it places on employees, most of whom dislike being asked to lie, leading to more sick days. The second is a much higher staff turnover, as good people will seek employment elsewhere, creating a huge cost in hiring and training.
The third cancer is perhaps the most insidious: the only people who don't mind being unethical are, well, unethical people. These are not the employees you want, as their dishonesty won't be limited to your customers; it will extend to side deals and stealing office supplies. Patrick’s point is stark and clear: a business built on deceit will ultimately rot from the inside out.
A Quick Tour of the Seven Universal Principles of Influence
At the heart of Patrick’s work are the seven universal principles that work across all cultures: Reciprocity (we feel obliged to give back), Liking (we say yes to people we like), and the new principle of Unity (we are influenced by those we share an identity with). These first three are all about building relationships.
The next principles help reduce uncertainty: Social Proof (we follow the lead of similar others) and Authority (we defer to experts). Finally, to motivate action, we have Consistency (we stick with our commitments) and Scarcity (we want more of what we can have less of). Understanding these fundamental drivers is the first step to applying them.
Turning a Bad Review into a Trust-Building Moment
So how does this work in the real world? Patrick gave a masterful example of handling a negative online review. The wrong move is to ignore it or get defensive. Instead, you can respond by first acknowledging the person's bad experience. This simple act of honesty immediately establishes you as a trustworthy source of information because you're acting against your own immediate self-interest.
Then, you can gently pivot to social proof by saying something like, "As you can see from our 128 other positive reviews, your experience is not what normally happens here." This validates the complaint while reassuring any future customers that the issue was an exception, not the rule. It’s a brilliant way to turn a negative into a powerful display of credibility.
Your First Step into the Science of Influence
Ultimately, what I took away from my chat with Patrick is that we don’t have to operate on guesswork. Whether we're in sales, marketing, HR, or even just trying to get our kids to do their homework, we are constantly in situations where we need to be persuasive. There is a science to it, one that is ethical, available, and incredibly potent.
As Patrick advised, the easiest first step for anyone is to simply become aware that this science exists. A great way to start is by picking up Dr. Cialdini's foundational book, Influence. By learning the principles, you can start to spot opportunities to ethically and effectively build stronger connections and achieve the outcomes you're working so hard for.
In Summary: Patrick van der Burght provides a compelling and ethical framework for influence. His message is a game-changer: stop guessing and start learning the science of human decision-making. By applying these proven principles with honesty and integrity, you can not only achieve greater success but also build deeper, more trusting, and more enduring relationships in every area of your life.
Action
Realize there is a science to how people make decisions that is available for you to learn. As a first practical step, follow Patrick's recommendation and get Dr. Cialdini's foundational book, Influence, to begin understanding these powerful principles.
Reach Out
You can reach out and thank Patrick on his website, or connect with him on LinkedIn. Patrick has also generously provided a Free Influence & Persuasion Guide which includes a downloadable ebook.
Links:
* Website – Ethical Pursuasion
* LinkedIn
* Facebook
* X (formerly Twitter) – @yesmoreoften
* Instagram – @ethical_persuasion
* YouTube
* TikTok
* Free Influence & Persuasion Guide
Books:
* Influence, New and Expanded: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini
* How to Hear YES More Often: Harnessing the Power of Influence and Ethical Persuasion in Business by Patrick Van Der Burght, Leopold Ajami, and John Doorbar
Cool Things About Patrick
* He's a land, sea, and air adventurer who found his calling on cassette tapes. There's a fantastic juxtaposition between his adventurous, hands-on life as a commercial pilot, scuba diver, and Harley rider, and the old-school, analogue way he discovered his passion: listening to Dr. Cialdini's work on cassette tapes in the late 90s.
* He had the courage to cold-email his hero. After being inspired by the tapes, he didn't just become a fan; he took the initiative to email Dr. Cialdini directly for permission to teach the material. That single act of proactive courage fundamentally shaped his professional journey.
* His Harley adventures are a shared passion. The image of a Harley rider often evokes a solo journey, but Patrick's spouse also enjoys riding, making it a shared activity. This adds a wonderful layer of warmth and partnership to his adventurous side.
* He's on a mission to equip the next generation with a "crucial life skill." His strong desire isn't just to coach professionals, but to teach ethical persuasion to young people in schools, preparing them for a future where social influence is a top-ranked skill needed for success.
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