Am I Doing Enough? Understanding Your Baby & Toddler

A Co-Production from Learn With Less® and the Play On Words Podcast

Are you constantly wondering if you’re doing enough as a parent? Do you feel pressure to “get it right” when it comes to your baby or toddler’s development? In this episode, In this co-produced episode, of the “Play On Words” podcast and the Learn With Less®” podcast, Ayelet Marinovich of  Learn With Less® joins host Beth Gaskill of Big City Readers.

Ayelet Marinovich is a pediatric speech-language pathologist, parent educator, & founder of Learn With Less®.

She’s the author of Understanding Your Baby & Understanding Your Toddler, 2 incredible resources that remind parents: you don’t need fancy toys or complicated activities—your everyday interactions are already powerful learning moments.

We talk about:
🧠 Why you don’t need more stuff to help your child learn
✨ How to feel confident that you’re doing “enough”
👶 The surprising ways babies and toddlers learn best
📚 Simple, evidence-based ways to support early development
🎵 Why everyday routines (yes, even diaper changes!) are packed with learning opportunities

If you’ve ever doubted yourself as a parent, this episode is your reminder: you are enough. 💛

Helpful Resources Related to This Episode

The Learn With Less® Infant/Toddler Development Blueprint

Ayelet’s books: Understanding Your Baby & Understanding Your Toddler

Learn With Less® Fundamentals Course

Big City Readers Courses

Ayelet’s Musical Album, Strength In Words: Music For Families

Connect With Us

Ayelet: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Beth: Facebook / Instagram / Pinterest

Text Transcript of The Podcast Episode

Beth: Welcome back to the Play On Words podcast. I am so excited and a little bit nervous today to have Ayelet Marinovich here from Learn With Less® to talk about: Do kids really need toys to learn and thrive? If you don’t know Ayelet, she is a child development guru, parent, play based learning specialist, and speech therapist too, right? So many things, I’ll let you introduce yourself, but this is an episode (I already know) is going to be so great. So welcome to the show.

Ayelet:
Thank you so much for having me. Beth. It’s great to be here. Yay.

Beth:
Okay, so tell us a little bit about you and Learn With Less® for the people who might not know you!

Ayelet: Sure. So again, I’m Ayelet. I have been a speech and language therapist since, gosh, 2009 / 2010. When I became a mom in 2014, I was far from where I grew up, which was here in California. My partner and I had moved to London, and so I was pregnant and had my first child there, across the pond. I was really looking for, number one, community. Number two, a way to utilize the knowledge that I have in my professional arena, and connect that with creating connection points with other new families. So I started leading caregiver and baby classes with my own child, just in my community, out of our home.

I loved it so much because it was an opportunity to connect, to bring people together and, again, to share information that at least I knew. Obviously, the overwhelm of early parenthood is intense, and this was a place that I could feel confident. I could feel at least a little bit less vulnerable and and really share that information with other new parents and caregivers who I knew were feeling the same way. I just started leading these groups, and really facilitating these groups and utilizing that knowledge, and just expanding on the kinds of questions that I was getting and asking myself. What can I do to support and connect with this teeny, tiny human in my world? And yeah, that’s, that’s how it came to be.

Beth: Wow. And so now, are you still leading them, or are you mostly training and coaching other people to lead them?

Ayelet: Yeah, primarily I license and support other educator and therapist types to utilize the curriculum that I developed, to use in their own communities. This is amazing because it expands the impact that I can have exponentially, and really allows me to feel like I’m putting something into the world that is healing and helpful.

Beth: It is. I even like the song on your podcast. Is that in – do you sing that in the class? Hello, everybody, I get it stuck in my head when I’m listening. I love singing it in my own house, like when I’m making dinner. So, okay, do you do miss teaching the in-person or the actual “caregiver & me” classes? Now that’s my growing pain, too: You want to have a bigger reach, but you kind of have to give a little!

Ayelet: Yeah, and I do from time to time, often offer them virtually! I mean, it’s funny, right? Because when I started the licensing program, it was February of 2020, so there was, of course, a big switch to, I now need to ensure that other folks also are able to lead these virtually. I had actually been doing this since 2017 myself, for a variety of reasons. There has always been a need for virtual connection, and always will be. So I do still lead classes from time to time, especially when I’m getting that itch.

Beth: Oh good, that’s kind of how I do it, too. I was just talking with someone yesterday, and they said, so you don’t get to be with kids anymore? I answered, No, I still do. I do, say, a once a month meetup, but it’s so hard because you think to yourself, I want to reach every kid and family! I think we align a lot on that – that is my big focus: community for families, whether they’re in school or in the baby stage.

Originally I started because I saw so many parents having struggles with knowing how to advocate for their child in an IEP meeting, or like things like that. There needs to be a bridge between school and home: how to find your community, asked the right resources… and then my work expanded to people who don’t need IEPs! Yeah, it’s such a need. Community is such an important part of being a parent!

Ayelet: Yes, especially in these uncertain times.

Beth: I know! Every post I do, I ask myself, does this matter? The world is on fire!

I know you are a big advocate of using what you have. I mean, your literal company is called Learn With Less®, right? I once posted something many years ago, and I still think about it, because I kind of got in trouble, but I posted something that a popular toy subscription company had sent me – this little toy that was a box and it had tissues in it, and you pull them out. I was like, so cute. And I made a post that said, and also, this actual box of tissues does the exact same thing. There’s no need to buy this.

Ayelet: I literally have one sitting behind me, yes!

Beth: The reason I got in trouble is because a toy store owner said, I’m so mad at you! but I said, I’m sorry, there’s enough for people that want to buy toys and people to know that they don’t need, too. So can you talk a little bit about what role toys actually play in child development?

What Role Do Toys Play in Child Development?

Ayelet: I mean, first of all, I like to say this whole the baby industry is sort of a “The Emperor has no toys” situation, right? I am not anti toy. My children have always had toys, either that I have bought or that other family members or people in our community have given them. But my my kids also have always known that the wooden spoon and the paper towel roll are equally as entertaining and an equally valid developmental tool.

The power of any tool or toy is not inherently on the box that says “this is an educational toy.” Anyone can put that tag on, say, cupcake liner and say “educational toy.” It’s the actual interaction with that toy and with others that makes the difference. I think it also really comes down to the power of connection! And at Learn With Less®, we have four pillars that we want to define around creating more connection, more opportunities for interaction, more vocabulary, more modeling, more reciprocity. So those are, as I define them here at Learn With Less®, play, talk, sing and move. And I’m happy to go into that, if you’d like.

Beth: Oh, please!

How Does Play Support Early Learning?

Ayelet: Yeah! So around play, we want to define that with attention to the following principles. First, open ended play, meaning we want to encourage caregivers to really engage in the exploration of the environment and everyday objects. Also, being playful can simply mean exploring, experimenting, offering varied environments and varying objects! Most importantly, we want to actually help the adults in the room see that being playful is a different way of looking at what we as grown ups come to define as play. Many adults in the room come into the idea of playing with their child as following set of rules. For instance, we hit the ball, we run, we score. Or it can be thought of as a procedural exercise: we open the book, we read the page, we turn the page, repeat.

Encouraging caregivers to play with no specific end goal in mind can really require them to reframe their entire thinking. I think a lot of your audience are educators or therapists, as well. So in a therapeutic context, you’re going to want to weave whatever skill you’re working on into the play. For instance, it might be that a professional is working on turn taking, eye gaze, joint attention, imitation, first words, or gesture use. We want to encourage and create an environment where that caregiver is encouraged to be flexible and accepting of what is happening, what might happen next, and what their child is doing. Finally, within that play, we want to ensure safety with a variety of materials.

Beth: Yeah. So, okay, I’m imagining. I always try to work on remembering that not everyone has all of the information. If I’m the furthest point out, I’m imagining that I’m a parent. So how do I play with my kid? Say, I’m sitting in my living room and we have I’m drinking my coffee, and he likes the plastic lid that I took off from the coffee shop we stopped at this morning. How do we play with that? I think a lot of parents also think that play means I have to “be silly,” which I think maybe we can correct that. I think people want a specific goal. So if they’re asking, so what do, how do I pick what topic I want to do with this lid? And, you know, then they just get stuck. Do I just say, the lid is on my head?

Ayelet: Well, actually, yeah, I mean, my default is always… everything is a hat!

Beth: Okay, so that is a good move.

Ayelet: It’s a great method, yeah! I mean, it’s really about following the child’s lead. If your child is interested in that plastic lid, then, yeah, what are they doing with it? All you need to do is talk about what they’re doing, how are they engaging with it? Oh, it’s light! Yep, you can pick it up. I wonder if there’s something heavy over here? Just speak about what they are doing with it, or how it feels, or what it looks like. Engage with that. Of course, we can always expand, meaning take what they are doing and add more language. I can imagine say, pushing a finger down and sort of popping it up. There’s so much that we can either lead with and model, or simply just follow what our child is doing and how they are interested in it.

Beth: I love it. Okay, that’s easy. Do you have a time frame around that? I know we would say, no, just follow their lead. But so many people ask, how long do I sit? Should I introduce something else? I think we’ve over analyzed things so much as a society that people feel like they’re not doing anything right. When actually, you’re worrying about it is the only problem!

Ayelet: I think parenting is such a practice of of being able to sit with. I will be the first person to say that I absolutely still struggle with that. My kids are eight and 11 now. But I think it’s about paying attention to what’s happening in the environment. It’s looking at, is the child still engaged? Great. Continue to reinforce that engagement. Are they finding that they’re done? Great. We’re all done with this. We can move on to the next thing. And like you said, it’s very hard, I think, for families to trust themselves. So much about of what this is all about, what I try to achieve at Learn With Less®, is fostering confidence and competence. It’s about helping families feel confident and competent that they can be with, and facilitate, and engage in play.

The means to do that are often through these four pillars of play, talk, sing, move, which are again, just an open ended opportunity to enjoy your child for a few minutes. I think another thing is, like you said, people think that play is “I have to be silly. I have to do pretend play. I’m not good at that. I don’t want to do that. Or I don’t even have more than 10 minutes a day to dedicate to sitting and totally being present.” But I think the example you gave,Beth, is so good. Because it’s literally: Okay. I’ve sat down with this maybe lukewarm cup of coffee. I’m finally getting a few minutes to sit with it and with my child. So much can happen within those in between times.

A lot of what I talk about at Learn With Less® is utilizing those everyday routines and tiny rituals of the day. That’s your gold! We don’t need to necessarily dedicate 20 minutes a day just sitting with our child. We are literally doing it during a diaper change, when you’re putting your child’s shoes on or sweater on, when you are going out to get the mail. All of those little things are the opportunities!

Beth: Those tiny moments are often the times we’re rushing through to get to the next part – but that’s when everything’s happening! I also when you were just talking, I thought, okay, I went from asking, people are going to ask, “what do I do?” Okay, so say they want to play with this lid, and can we give them play? And then when you renamed the pillars again, play, talk, sing and move, then, I got to thinking about what happens next! So maybe you’re pushing the lid, and then you’re going to chase it. Then you get it, and then you are popping the thing, and you’re going, “pop, pop, pop, pop goes the top,” and just those little moments. So maybe walk us through, let’s keep this as the example, and through the rest of the pillars.

How Do We Create A Language Rich Environment For Babies and Toddlers?

Ayelet:
Okay, so we’ve started with play, so then we can discuss talk. Like you said, “pop, pop, pop, pop goes the top.” That’s both talk and sing! You’re saying vocabulary and you’re making it into some rhyming scheme, you’re giving it a rhythm or a melody. So for talk, we want to remember that caregivers – just by having discussions with their potentially pre verbal baby or toddler, just by making those observations alongside their child, they’re creating a language rich environment.

Let’s think about this idea of “repetition with variation” as the gold standard. That’s about helping them see the value in all those everyday experiences, like the diaper change or popping the lid of the coffee topper. These are all these are opportunities for repetition, because maybe you do go get a cup of coffee every morning. And tiny variations that you can make with a change of pace, with a change of attention, with the addition of a choice making opportunity, with a little song, like “pop, pop, pop goes the top” and so on. That’s it!

We also want to help caregivers remember that the drill and kill kind of “what’s this? What’s this?” labeling that many parents sort of get stuck in, because they want their child to show them how much they know… This is just one of the many reasons we communicate! Labeling is just one way we can talk about things, but so is asking questions, making requests, greeting… You could hold up that lid and say hello, and then move the little topper that goes in and out and that can be its mouth. Suddenly you have a puppet! Oh my goodness, how cute!

So many other parts of joint intentional acts, socially interactive acts, and behavioral regulation acts are all talk, creating that language rich environment. We all communicate using a variety of means and modes, not just with words! Remember alll those precursors to language, all those additional ways, like eye gaze, facial expressions, gestures, moving closer to an object. So maybe your child is pre verbal, and they’re not going to say something, but you might move that funny little top that’s become a puppet closer to their face, and they might move towards it too. Then all of a sudden, when they’re not expecting it, BOO!

There’s so much that we can infuse with these silly little objects that often end up in our recycling containers, that are opportunities for engagement and modeling our own curiosity, talking about our own feelings, imitating their vocalizations, verbalizations, and movements. These are all supporting various areas of communication. And caregivers are the primary language models. They are the ones modeling what they want their child to then imitate. So we want to help them model a wonderful variation of vocabulary, and formation of sentences, etc. We also want them to model positive behavior of positive communication styles. We want them to talk to their children, around their children in the ways that you know they want them eventually to do the same to them. So that is how I sort of define talk.

How to Use Musical Experiences to Support Early Development

And then we have sing. Often, this is the one people have the most difficulty gathering the resources and just doing. I want to really encourage people to remember that this pillar of sing doesn’t necessarily mean singing a specific song with specific vocabulary, singing every day or in every way with their child. There’s so many ways to be musical, just like “pop, pop, pop, pop goes the top,” because music is so powerful. Giving caregivers ways to feel at ease, trying things out, and giving children ways to trying things to try things out, by modeling our own imperfection, and using music to add a silly element to a simple routine. This coffee lid being a wonderful example. Another one might be the diaper change. STINKY DIAPER! It’s time for a new one! Or my personal favorite, that came out of a moment of brilliance. “Is there a poopoo in there / Is there a poopoo in there / Was it only air / Or is there poopoo in there?

Beth: Oh my gosh. I love that. I think parents and caregivers need this permission that being silly actually is helpful!

Ayelet: Yeah, right, when you have the capacity!

Beth: Yes, yes. So I just thought about when you were using talk and sing to model both communication and stuff that you want them to do. I thought of the little tiny Tim song, the froggy. I had a little froggy / his name is Tiny Tim. I always do at the burp, he had a bubble in his throat, and we do a big burp, and then I always go, “and what should he say? Excuse me!” In those moments, because yeah, it can be fun to do Tiny Tim and there’s a lot of language benefits and literacy benefits and all of the things and that. But also, you can add in manners!

There’s so much, I think, that people often also get lost in that questioning, what does a dog say? What does a cow say? I like to remind grown ups to try to think about yourself in conversations. Are you just asking questions? That’s not a good conversation! If you’re just asking a dozen questions at someone, that’s gonna get really boring for the other person! You have to leave that space for the dialog. I think that’s a good reminder.

Ayelet: Sometimes just pausing at the end, towards the end of a sentence or a poem or a chant or a melody of a song is such an effective thing! And that’s actually, there’s a name for that. It’s called the cloze procedure, where you’re pausing and what do we do next? We… buckle our seat belt, or whatever it is. When you have that sort of repetition and routine, you you allow them to know, number one, what’s coming next, and number two, offer an opportunity for them to either verbally or gesturally, take the next step and fill in that gap.

Beth: I love it. That is great. I also love to do that when I’m talking about teaching rhyming. I’m sure you know the book, Little Blue Truck. I could read it in my sleep. My examples always go, horn went beep / Engine purred / friendliest sound you ever…. And I always am coaching parents and teachers and caregivers that even if they’re not gonna know the rhyme yet, or even if they don’t, just leave a little bit of time, and then if the child is not saying it, then just fill it in. But giving that amount of time is going to help them start to realize, Oh, those two words are rhyming words. Oh, there’s a word that goes there. Oh, that’s not just one sentence, those are separate words…

Ayelet: Yes! I mean, I’m just imagining this whole thing, and visually, I’m seeing myself cupping my hand against my ear. “Friendliest sound you ever…” put the hand against the ear, and that’s a gestural opportunity for someone, for a child who’s maybe non verbal, pre verbal, to to give that that gesture of “heard.”

Beth: I love that. Okay, amazing. So then move is next, yeah, great. Tell us about move.

How to Use Movement to Support Early Child Development

Ayelet: Number one, movement is life. Their child learns about everything by learning how their body moves, where it is in space, by solving that problem of how to balance and lift, and figuring out elements of force & gravity, and of becoming the scientists that they are through movement. So we want to help caregivers remember that even with a tiny baby or a child with motor challenges, they can consider various movement planes. Whether it’s during tummy time or during a dance party or a lullaby, whether it’s to stimulate or to regulate.

Also, exploration cannot be contained. It is learning. So we might have some movement in and out of the location where the session started. We might be sitting up or laying down on the floor. We might be mouthing something or exploring how one surface is different from the next. Movement is also connected to gesture, so pushing, pulling, raising a hand, waving all of those things. Even in that example, earlier that you were giving of pushing that coffee lid on on the floor, for instance, with a little toddler: you can have them flick it with their finger, or with their whole hand, or their the tops of their fingers, or with a foot. There’s so many ways to integrate movement, and we know that early gestural communication is also linked to this movement as well.

It’s all connected. And I want to also just name out loud that all of these things, play, talk, sing, move. There’s overlap with all of them, of course. Just gonna say that. So it’s not like you can, you know, check one off the list and be done with it. It’s an ebb and flow. You’re always playing. All of this is play, but how can you infuse more playfulness, more language, more melody or rhythm or and more movement into your everyday moments with your child.

Also, those four pillars are how we support cognition, communication, motor and sensory development and social/emotional development. That is how it happens! It’s sort of this developmental matrix that I like to talk about: there are ways that you can play that support cognition. There are ways that you can play that support communication. There are ways that you can play that support motor and sensory development, etc, etc. And then same goes for all of the other pieces.

Beth: Yeah. I was just thinking, we love the song, zoom, zoom, zoom. And in that song, you’re doing all the things, because you’re doing, zoom, zoom, zooming. Yeah, we’re flying to the moon, and then when you do blast off and you lift the baby in the air, it’s playful, it’s movement. You’re flying them around the room, even the part if you want to take a trip, climb aboard my rocket ship, has talk in it. There’s singing… So if your baby wants you to sing, zoom, zoom, zoom 10 times. Guess what? You just did all of the components!

Ayelet: Exactly. All you need to do. And maybe they’re telling you that they want you to do, zoom, zoom, zoom by moving their hands in that zooming way that is representative of that song. To me, it’s really, you know, it’s not about you getting to show off all your cute therapy toys or getting to use your laminator as a provider, but for every single material that you use as a provider or a therapist or educator, for instance, if you’re bringing something into the home or you’re providing materials within a group, or you’re using what’s already there, try to think of the most basic version.

In our use of everyday items, we’re educating caregivers that they don’t need what you have, what you bring in, they can use what they already have in their own homes, regardless of how “much” or how “little” they have. Our caregivers are a diverse set of people and children who may or may not be accustomed to playing with a variety of materials. So I want to address this too, right? Folks maybe started a speech therapy session or a developmental class maybe already having spent the morning in a cardboard box or the kitchen cabinets. OR, that caregiver may be completely opposed to their child using their their kitchen as a play space, and that’s fine! That is their right. If they’re not comfortable, you find another way, another material, another space. Because, again, we’re building family capacity, family confidence and family competence.

Beth: Amazing. So would you say, if, let’s say a therapist is listening to this. The question is: what is your favorite tool that you can find in someone’s house?

A Speech Therapist’s All Time Favorite Developmental Tool In Your Home

Ayelet: Ooh, the favorite? That’s a fun one. I think the salad spinner is one of my all-time faves.

Beth: Wow, I was not expecting that!

Ayelet: Yeah, my kids still, if they see the salad spinner… again, they are eight and 11 years old. They will take it out. They’ll just push down that topper. It’s such a fun, very regulating activity. The sound of it, the pushing of the topper is great. You can put things in, take them out, tap it. It goes round and round. There’s so much vocabulary. There so much opportunity for a musical element. It is a movement activity. Fine motor, yeah.

Beth: Great one.

Ayelet: And, of course, there are multiple levels of hats, right? The top is a hat, the bottom is a hat. The netting section is a hat.

Beth: So, wow, lots of hats.

Ayelet: When in doubt, it’s a hat.

Beth: Yeah, when in doubt it’s a hat! Do you have any practical shifts you can give to caregivers to help them shift their mindset from entertaining their child to supporting independent play?

How to Support Independent Play In Young Children

Ayelet: building attention is done through helping children see the creative aspects within what they have in front of them. When you are engaging with those everyday objects, whether it’s the coffee lid or a diaper itself, or whatever it is you are helping them with, see the magic and the wonder in all of those things, and see the value in those things.

What the research says is that one way to support attention and independence in young children is actually through engagement. So it’s a little bit counterintuitive, but that is literally what we can do. The more little moments that you can spend in engagement with your child, the the more actually that fosters their independence and their ability to see playful opportunities everywhere.

Beth: Yes, that is in deep alignment with one thing that I I talk about. I have a course at Big City Readers, learn to draw, drawing to writing. It’s a progression, it starts with just drawing, and then you’re writing words. And some parents will say, Okay, I put it on and my child is it’s for four and five and six year olds. The child is watching it, but they’re not doing it. What should I do?

I always say, set up two spots, put it on and don’t say anything. You just do the class. You sit and you draw with me, and you write with me. And you don’t need to invite them. They see that there’s a spot for them if they want to come over there, but show them that you’re doing it. If you’re like watching TV and you say, Okay, you do this, or you know you’re doing something. They want to be close to you. They want connection with you. So if you’re doing it and not pressuring them, they’re probably going to be interested in what you’re doing.

Ayelet: Yes, absolutely.

The Parental Pressures of Keeping Up With the Right Tools

Beth: What advice would you give to parents or caregivers who feel pressure to keep up with trends of toys and things, especially with social media. I get a lot of messages saying, this new reading curriculum came out. Do I need it? My answer is: You have taken Big City Readers classes. Those are the tools you need. That tool that that new reading game, is not going to teach your child anything more than you know already! You don’t need another tool. You are the one that teaches your child. That tool is not magical. Do you have any advice on people that are trying to keep up?

Ayelet: I mean number one, don’t be afraid to opt out. I’ve gotten much better at that over the years.

Beth: Why is it so hard?

How to Opt Out and Declutter Your Digital Landscape

Ayelet: It is so hard because we live in a capitalist society that tells us that more and more and more is always better, that you need to be more, do more, and buy more to be the “best” parent or therapist that you can be. And the the the secret in that is that you do already have everything you need to support and connect with tiny humans in your life.

That is the gold. And it is, it’s very hard to remember that. But if you need permission, here it is, you literally have everything you need. It’s probably in your recycling container. It’s in every single room in your home, and it’s everywhere that you go, if you are taking a walk with your tiny human, there is grass, there are spider webs, there are cracks in the concrete. All of that is, is the tool of supporting early language, early learning in general.

Beth: Wow, I love it. I Okay. What would you say to the parent or caregiver who is overwhelmed by clutter? Where should they start in simplifying their play space.

Ayelet: I’ve always been a big fan of toy rotation. Something children haven’t seen in a while suddenly takes on meaning and excitement and wonder, and it’s because they haven’t seen it in a while, or they forgot what joy it brought them. Even now , my 8 and 11 year old do this if they catch wind of a box we have in the garage that’s going to another family or for donation!

Even if you have, say, a closed bin of stuff, or a closet full of stuff, bringing just a few things out at a time, and just observing your child, looking at what what is exciting for them or interesting to them. And if you want to do that on a weekly basis or a monthly basis, there’s no right way, again. That’s a good reminder: there’s no right way for any of this.

Anyone who tells you that number one, they’re a parenting expert, or that this is the one, be all, end all solution, has something to sell you, right? I think really just reminding folks that they literally already have all of the tools they need, they probably need less than what they have depending on the family and community that we’re talking about. Just giving that permission to to Learn With Less®, is it.

Beth: I think that’s a really good reminder. You have what it takes. You don’t need these extra things. It’s hard to remember, though!

Ayelet: It is. Well, one of, one of the things that I want to offer to your audience is what I call the Learn With Less® infant and toddler development blueprint, which you can find at learnwithless.com/blueprint, and it goes through everything that we covered today. It’s everything around those four pillars of play, talk, sing, and move, how they connect to early development, and how you can support that. So that is a gift that I would be happy to share with your audience so you can keep it top of mind.

Beth: I like to remember whenever I’m feeling overwhelmed by anything, not just in this developmental world, that social media – back to the keeping up thing – you wouldn’t have 200 people in your house talking to you and giving you advice. Scrolling and watching videos from 200 people saying you should do this. You should do this.

I always like to suggest picking like the three to five people that really align with me right now doesn’t have to be forever. I say, you can unfollow me if I’m causing you stress, because you can’t, in this season, do these things with your child, but pick three to five and just focus on that and don’t look at anything else.

Ayelet: Decluttering, decluttering that digital landscape is also an important piece.

Beth: It is. I need to work on it as a daily practice.

Ayelet: Yeah, for sure, I’m there with you. 

Beth: Ok, I have two questions for you that I like to ask my guests. The first is, what are you currently reading?

Ayelet: Oh, what am I currently reading? Ooh, what am I currently reading! This is a good one.

Beth: I surprised you with this, because, as we talked about before we started the podcast recording, I was asking, how do you keep up? You’ve been doing this for almost 10 years, and I forgot that I have segments, and because I haven’t been I’ve been so irregular. I realized, oh yeah, it’s been a month since I recorded an episode. I forgot.

Ayelet: Yes, I’m reading a couple of books, which tends to happen. One is Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer, a beautiful book. I’m listening to it on audio, and it’s her actually reading it. I love when that happens. Her subtitle is: indigenous wisdom, scientific knowledge and the teaching of plants. It’s a really beautiful book.

Beth: Oh, that sounds amazing.

Ayelet: Yeah. And then the other one is called the Trail Guide to the Torah of Non-Violence by Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, who’s a wonderful Jewish spiritual leader and anti racist guide. So yeah, those two things on my reading list.

Beth: Oh I may have to link those too.

And okay, this one’s kind of tricky. So I’ll give you a minute if you need to think about it. But everyone that listens to this podcast seems to be from the same-ish generation. So I started asking, what is one thing that you miss about elementary school? It’s different now than it used to be. And you know, some people have said book covers. Lisa Frank pens have been mentioned. Oh, market days, which seems to be only certain population in the US had market days.

Ayelet: I want to know what that is!

Beth: It was a fundraiser for the school, like, once a month, and you could put an order for market days, and it was very novelty items, but not good at all, like french toast sticks and these little, tiny mini frozen pizzas. And it would raise money for the school. A percentage of the orders from market days would go to the school, and but only about 60% of people that I’ve mentioned that to knew what it was, and they’re like, Oh yeah, but the French go sticks from it were so good!

Ayelet: That’s really funny. Two things come to mind. One, and this is ironic, because my eight year old is is now begging to do this, which we will do. Don’t worry. Lemonade stands.So bringing it back, yes. The other one… and maybe this is more, a little bit more middle school, but mix tapes.

Beth: Yes, oh my gosh. I actually bought a used car a couple years ago, and there was a mixed CD in the and I found it like a year later. I was like, this is someone’s mixed tape!

Ayelet: Yes, so much love and intentionality goes into that. Oh gosh, yes. You know, there’s always a good playlist, of course, but the actual sitting down. And again, I was born in 1981 so cassette tapes were my jam, literally. But sitting down, often recording a song from the radio literally going, pressing record at exactly the right time. Yeah, amazing.

Beth: Yeah, wow. I do remember that, just like, brought me back. I remember what I had one that was written on it in pink marker. And I remember packing it to go to college, it was my favorite thing.

Ayelet: Yes – I have one from summer camp back in the day that I still treasure.

Beth: Oh, I love that. Wow. Where’d you go to summer camp? 

Ayelet: I went to Camp Tawonga, which is near Yosemite, yeah, fun place. Love it.

Beth: Well, okay, thank you so much for being on this episode. I can’t wait to share it with everybody and link all of your things that you mentioned. Where can people find you?

Ayelet: Yeah, at learnwithless.com, at Learn With Less® on all the social platforms, I hope! I mean, yeah, by the time this episode comes out. Yeah. I’m also on blue sky @learnwithless, as meta implodes, definitely at Learn With Less® you can find me almost everywhere, sharing information, ideas, permission to to put it down and opt out. And, yeah, lots of ideas and fun.

I love social media because it literally can be so social. And so if you’re on there, and you hear this and want to connect, please do – love to chat with you in the DMs!

Beth: Yay. Well thank you so much!

Ayelet: Thank you, Beth!

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