Epstein tried to befriend me

His enemies were hoping that Donald Trump would come out badly from the Epstein files, but he hasn't. Gerry argues that the scandal is a parable about modern capitalism, and remembers the time Jeffrey Epstein tried and failed to make friends with him. Katy tells the inside story of her interview with Peter Mandelson.

Also, what can we expect when the Clintons testify to the Epstein investigation? And what does President Trump mean when he says "nationalise the vote"?

Katy Balls, Washington editor and columnist at The Times and The Sunday Times

Gerard Baker, columnist at The Times and editor at large at The Wall Street Journal

Producer: Euan Dawtrey

Executive producer: Molly Guinness

Email us: thestateofit@thetimes.co.uk

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