Guest: Forrest Smith — serial founder bringing clinic-grade photobiomodulation to a safe, wearable form factor. Theme: Why dose and delivery matter more than raw wattage for red light therapy.Key takeawaysWavelengths that work: Deep red 660 nm (blood flow, NO release, shallow penetration) + 808 nm near-IR (deeper tissues/joints).Mechanisms: Hemoglobin photodissociates NO → vasodilation + better O₂ delivery; mitochondria’s cytochrome c oxidase bottleneck relieved → higher AT...
Guest: Forrest Smith — serial founder bringing clinic-grade photobiomodulation to a safe, wearable form factor.
Theme: Why dose and delivery matter more than raw wattage for red light therapy.
Key takeaways
- Wavelengths that work: Deep red 660 nm (blood flow, NO release, shallow penetration) + 808 nm near-IR (deeper tissues/joints).
- Mechanisms: Hemoglobin photodissociates NO → vasodilation + better O₂ delivery; mitochondria’s cytochrome c oxidase bottleneck relieved → higher ATP output; downstream: resilience to oxidative stress.
- Performance & recovery: Overnight reductions in CK and CRP let athletes train sooner; UFC PI and USA Weightlifting use cases mentioned.
- Brains & microvessels: Near-IR protocols tied to BDNF and microvascular improvements—an emerging Alzheimer’s angle.
- Dosing > device hype: Class-1 lasers allow precise, reproducible dosing to deeper targets; panels/LEDs spread light too broadly and shift dose by distance (inverse-square).
- Safety & contraindications: Class-1 lasers are eye-safe in normal use; titanium implants OK (osseointegration may improve). Pregnancy and active cancer: regulatory contraindications despite encouraging early data.
- Personal protocol (example): 15 min over carotids + 15 min lower abdomen (gut) upon waking; higher-melanin skin generally needs longer time at same power.
Resources & links (from interview)
Chapter markers (approx.)
00:00 Why red light now?
00:34 Mission: measurable QoL at scale
03:02 Risks of NSAIDs vs alternatives
03:34 660 nm + 808 nm explained
05:34 Newer NIR bands (905–1064 nm)
07:39 Penetration depth: red vs NIR
08:34 Photoacceptors & evolution (melanin)
10:28 Hemoglobin, NO, and O₂ delivery
12:02 Mitochondria & ATP bottleneck
14:06 Brain protection & TBI athletes
14:34 CK/CRP drops & faster training
15:55 Dosing by melanin level
17:49 Implants, pregnancy, cancer notes
21:22 Biphasic dose curve; laser classes
25:26 LEDs vs lasers; panels’ dose drift
27:50 Strongest evidence areas (wound, knee OA)
29:33 Gut–brain, BDNF, microvasc/Alzheimer’s
31:46 Forrest’s daily protocol (neck + gut)
34:00 Systemic effects; fertil
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