What if the very traits you've been told to soften, like being collaborative or agreeable, are actually essential to your success, not obstacles to it? In this episode of Finding Brave, we explore why so many professionals, especially women, feel trapped between being liked and being respected, and what it really takes to be both. In this episode, Kathy Caprino speaks with Alison Fragale, an organizational psychologist, professor at the University of North Carolina Kenan-Flagler Business School, and bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How...
What if the very traits you've been told to soften, like being collaborative or agreeable, are actually essential to your success, not obstacles to it? In this episode of Finding Brave, we explore why so many professionals, especially women, feel trapped between being liked and being respected, and what it really takes to be both.
In this episode, Kathy Caprino speaks with Alison Fragale, an organizational psychologist, professor at the University of North Carolina Kenan-Flagler Business School, and bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. Drawing on her extensive research on status, power, negotiation, and influence, Alison helps individuals understand how respect is formed and how it can be intentionally built without compromising your authenticity.
In our conversation, Alison breaks down the two core dimensions that shape how others evaluate and perceive us: warmth and competence. She explains how our behaviors signal, or fail to signal, competence, how feedback like "you're too nice" is often misunderstood, and why pulling back on warmth is rarely the right answer. Through powerful examples from her research, consulting career, and personal experience, she reveals how small behavioral shifts can dramatically change how others perceive your authority and credibility.
This episode offers practical, science-backed insight for anyone navigating leadership, visibility, or influence at work. If you have ever felt misunderstood or unsure of how to show up fully and effectively while being your true self, this conversation will give you a new lens and and transformative ways forward.
Key Highlights From This Episode:
- Introducing Alison Fragale and her research on status, power, and influence. [01:00]
- Lessons from Alison's early consulting career at McKinsey and how career dissatisfaction can drive self-awareness and meaningful change. [04:44]
- The science behind status, why respect matters, and the "likeable badass" framework. [12:51]
- Understanding the two key ways people evaluate others: warmth and competence. [14:35]
- How gender bias shapes status and perception in the workplace. [17:26]
- Ways that feedback like "you're too nice" often miss the point, what it's actually communicating, and how to signal capability without sacrificing warmth or authenticity. [21:28]
- Why asking for advice, not feedback, leads to clearer insight and stronger allies. [25:37]
- Alison's personal story about self-deprecation and learning from direct feedback. [28:07]
- Unpacking key distinctions between power and status, and their effects. [33:32]
- Final takeaway: How talking up others builds status and influence, and is one of the most rewarding, fruitful and joyful things we can do. [37:50]
For More Information:
Alison Fragale
Alison Fragale on LinkedIn
Alison Fragale on YouTube
Alison Fragale on Instagram
Links Mentioned in Today's Episode:
Alison's book, Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve
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Inspiring Quotes from Today's Show:
"The best job in life is one that you love, and the second best job is one that you hate, because when you are unhappy in your work situation, it will motivate you, like nothing else, to really understand yourself – and figure out how [to improve your situation]." — Alison Fragale [0:05:48]
"When we talk about a person being a "high-status' individual, we're saying people highly regard them. And what that means is: your status is an opinion in other people's minds. But it turns out to be a really important opinion for our own happiness and for our career success." — Alison Fragale [0:13:11]
"The two things we pay attention to are: do you care, and are you capable?" — Alison Fragale [0:14:49]
"When a man and a woman walk into a situation, if everything else about them is equal, there's a very high likelihood that the audience is going to immediately give more status to the man than the woman." — Alison Fragale [0:20:06]
"I'm not going to pull back on being nice, but I am going to show you that I know what I'm doing. You can rely on me. I'm results-oriented, I'm capable." — Alison Fragale [0:22:35]
"Smiling is a warm behavior, apologizing is a warm behavior, giving somebody a compliment is a warm behavior, putting yourself down is actually a warm behavior, because it shows you're humble. But some of these behaviors are better than others at showing how capable you are." — Alison Fragale [0:24:10]
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