Circle of Fellows #124: The Impact of Mentoring

The communication profession is currently weathering a perfect storm of tectonic shifts, from the promises of AI to the messy realities of hybrid work, and we are languishing in denial if we think traditional, one-way “career advice” will save us. In the January 2026 Circle of Fellows, our panel will move beyond the clichés to examine mentoring as a pragmatic, strategic tool for institutional knowledge transfer and professional resilience.

High-impact mentoring fosters the “trusted advisor” mindset, helping practitioners navigate the minefield of ethical leadership while bridging the gap between academic theory and high-stakes business execution. Whether you’re a senior leader looking to cultivate the next generation of strategic thinkers or a rising professional seeking to future-proof your career, this episode provides actionable frameworks for building the kind of meaningful, two-way developmental relationships that drive both individual growth and organizational success.

The panel was recorded on Thursday, January 22, 2026.

About the panel:

Dr. Amanda Hamilton-Attwell, accredited by both IABC and PRSA. She is Managing Director of Business DNA, based in South Africa, which provides strategic research and consulting, including communication audits, customer service, and women’s leadership topics. She is licensed in Adobe Connect and WebEx, using these to conduct virtual professional learning and education sessions. and other focused research and training in communication skills. Her career has also included a 15-year stint as a research manager for the National Productivity Institute.

Brent Carey is an award-winning communications executive and corporate storyteller who has been helping organizations connect with their stakeholders and achieve successful business outcomes for more than 30 years. During his career in corporate communications, he has practiced the complete range of the profession’s disciplines, including internal/HR communications and employee engagement, recruitment marketing, issues management and crisis communications, public and media relations, marketing communications and government relations. Brent is currently Vice President, Communications, at Mattamy Asset Management (the parent company of Mattamy Homes), based in Toronto, where he leads the corporate communications function and a small, impactful team that provides strategic planning and execution across Mattamy’s operations in Canada and the US. Brent has also held communication leadership roles with KPMG International, Deloitte Canada, CIBC, TD Bank and Imperial Oil. In 2004 he earned the Accredited Business Communicator (ABC) designation from IABC and in 2024 was recognized with the prestigious IABC Canada Master Communicator Award, an accolade bestowed upon select professionals who have demonstrated exemplary contributions to the field of communication. Brent graduated from York University in Toronto with a double honours degree in Communications and English.

Andrea Greenhous’s life’s purpose is to improve the world of work. For over 30 years, she has helped organizations improve the employee experience and build workplaces where people thrive. As founder and president of Vision2Voice, an internal communications agency, Andrea and her dedicated team help organizations adopt a strategic approach to employee communications to achieve results. Andrea has led initiatives and transformation projects for Fortune 500 technology companies, large government departments, and organizations as diverse as construction, biotech, finance, and higher education. This has led to a signature approach emphasizing harnessing employee voices and amplifying their insights and ideas.

Andrea is a storyteller, a PROSCI-certified change leader, and Dare to Lead trained based on the work and research of Brené Brown. She is also a certified Fearless Organization Practitioner. She uses the tools and processes developed by Amy C. Edmondson, the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, to build psychological safety in teams. Andrea has been named one of the top 10 influencers in internal communications and is a frequent guest blogger and speaker at industry events.

Russell Grossman, DipPR, ABC, FRSA, FCIPR, FCIM, IABC Fellow, has been a communications practitioner for 40 years and a UK Senior Civil Servant since 2006. He is Director of Communications at the UK Rail Regulator, the Office of Rail and Road, and recently stepped down after 13 years from his additional position as the head of the Government Communication Service (GCS) internal communications profession. He’s a non-executive director of the “Engage for Success ” movement, which aims to advance employee engagement, and a sponsor for both the GCS Fast Stream and GCS Talent. He is a past International Chair of IABC.  Russell and his long-suffering wife of 40 years are blessed with four children (one of whom also works within GCS) and five grandchildren.

Raw Transcript:

Hi, everybody, and welcome to Circle of Fellows. Uh, this is the monthly panel discussion featuring members of the Iabc fellows cohort. Uh, and we have four fellows joining us today for an, uh, interesting conversation on a topic that we have not tackled before. So I’m really looking forward to this one. Uh, we are talking about mentoring, uh, in today’s session. Uh, this is of particular interest to me because I’ve been on both sides of this, which I’ll talk about a little bit more in a minute. Uh, I do want to let everyone know who is watching in real time, uh, that you are welcome to participate by, uh, using the chat feature in YouTube, uh, to, uh, contribute your questions, your observations, your thoughts, your experiences, and we will share those on the screen and make them part of the conversation. Uh, so, uh, please take advantage of that. We really enjoy, uh, responding to the things that are of interest to you. Uh, hopefully all of our conversation is of interest to you. Uh, and we will jump into that in just a minute. But first, I would like, uh, like you to meet the panel. Uh, and we’ll just go around in clockwise order as I see you, starting with you. Amanda. Um, good day everybody. It is evening here in South Africa. I am talking to you from Pretoria in sunny South Africa. It’s not raining at the moment. It’s not cold. It’s beautiful weather. I am the CEO of business DNA, and I’ve been, uh, that for the past twenty six years now. Um, and, we do all kinds of research and consulting and, uh, strategic planning and, uh, it’s just fun. And, you know, I’ve been a member of the Iabc, uh, for so many years. I don’t even want to mention that. And, uh, I’m still as passionate about the profession, um, as I was when I started this journey many moons ago. So that’s me. And I am ABC, and, um, you know, a fellow. Of course. Of course. Uh, Andrea. Hi, everyone. My name is Andrea Greenhouse. My pronouns are she her. I’m coming from sunny, beautiful Ottawa. Even though it is cold, I run a small internal communications agency, and we’re in the business of helping organizations modernize internal communication changes everywhere. And you can’t lead change without modern, effective internal communication. So that’s what I do. Um, here in my little office with my two dogs. And I’m really excited about this conversation. I’m excited about it, too. Uh, Brent, you’re up next. Hi, everyone. My name is Brent Carey. I’m the head of corporate communications at Mattamy Asset Management in Toronto, Ontario. Also very cold and sunny. Um, uh, Madam Asset Management is the parent company of the more well-known brand Mattamy Homes, which is the largest family owned homebuilder in North America. I’m super passionate as as all my fellow panelists are about the topic of mentoring. Uh, I’ve been a mentor for many years, both within my organization and IBC and, uh, so looking forward to the conversation today. Thank you. Looking forward to it too. And Russell, last but not least, hi there. So I’m Russell Grossman, I’m coming to you from London. That’s London, England rather than London Ontario. And where I’m afraid the weather isn’t too good. But I’m director of communications at the Rail Regulator for the UK, and I’m also one of the senior directors in the Government Communications Service again in the UK. And I’ve been an ABC member for quite a long time. And like Brent and the others, mentoring is something that I’m particularly interested and passionate about as well. I’ve been on both sides of that, and I’m interested to see what we explore in this conversation. Thanks for being here, Russell. Uh, and I should probably mention that I’m shell holes. Uh, I am the moderator of the panel. I am senior director of communications at Webcor. We’re a commercial general contractor and builder operating in California and elsewhere. Uh, and very happy to be here with you all. Uh, I mentioned that I have been on both sides of mentoring, uh, that includes a formal mentoring Entering relationship that I’m in now. This was the result of an Iabc San Francisco initiative. I think it was about four years ago, where they solicited people who wanted to be mentored and people who would be willing to do the mentoring, and then they paired them up. It was supposed to be a one year program, but the the young woman that I was assigned to and I have continued to meet monthly ever since then, and I have found that to be a very beneficial relationship for for the both of us. Um, on the mentee side, uh, nothing formal. Uh, I had, uh, a boss once. Um, who? I don’t know if he would call himself a mentor, but I certainly saw him that way. Uh, he taught me a lot. We spent a lot of time just sitting and talking through the various issues that that I was facing and, and challenges and career growth. And, uh, I feel like I owe him a lot. We’re still friends. He’s in his eighties now and living in Montana, but we still stay in touch. So having been on both sides of this, I see the value of it. So what I would like to start with is a question of, um, what is, in your experience, the best approach to mentoring? Is it a formal program with, with scheduled meetings, uh, and agendas, or is it finding somebody who can just fulfill that role on a day to day basis? What’s what’s your experience been? Can I start off maybe by saying that I think rather like communications. Uh, it depends on your audience. And I think, uh, it very much depends on whether you feel, uh, that the person that you’re mentoring is looking for a formal or informal mentoring relationship. And, you know, I’m sure we’ll come on to this a little bit more, but the way in which the mentoring relationship starts can be very different. Some people may come to you because they know you as a person. Some people may come because you were a name on a list of a number of mentees, and they’ve just kind of put a dart into that piece of paper, as it were. Um, so I think just to just to start off, I think it depends very much on both who the mentee is and of course, your insights and your judgment on that situation. It might be useful also shall, to draw a distinction. And I think one of my colleagues here raised it in the sort of our pre work difference between mentoring and coaching. Right. I kind of view mentoring as, as a more formal arrangement, as you indicated, where coaching can happen anytime, anywhere with with anyone. Yeah, I think that was me. And I think because I try very I’m not a certified coach, so I try very hard to not say that I’m coaching, but I yeah, I have different kind of mentoring relationships with different people. I have formal ones where I’m actually getting paid, helping people, sort of nudging them along, sharing expertise. We have a formal program where we’re, you know, we’re tackling their strategy. I’ve got one coming up tomorrow where I’m, you know, we’re talking about business acumen. Then I have others where I think I have a link on my website where you can just have coffee with me and I’ll share all my failures, and you can learn from those. Then I have my employees that I, you know, mentor more formally. And then I’ve been part of formal mentoring programs. So, um, my experience is that, you know, um, the fact that people confuse mentoring and coaching, uh, often causes the, uh, person on the other side of the table to be confused as well because, uh, you know, it’s easy to confuse them because they both develop mental. But the one is, uh, where you share your experience that’s mentoring. While coaching is while when you actually enable the person to solve the problem himself or herself. So, you know, and it’s so important to when you start this relationship, especially if it’s more a formal relationship that you clarify what what is the situation, what is the primary goal. Because it often, you know, coaching will go into mentoring uh, or mentoring will go into coaching. But it’s important that we understand that there is a difference between the in the the outcome of the situation and not to throw yet another term into the mix. But there’s also networking, right. Which might be the most informal of everything where you you just occasionally connecting with folks and and offering some advice or what have you. Um, so I think they probably ratchet up on the the formality scale as you go from networking to coaching and mentoring. Yeah, it probably pays to define mentoring a little better. Amanda, I’m intrigued by the notion that it is it is focused on sharing your experience. I know that my mentee, Sarah, um, will talk about everything from her career path to how she deals with, uh, a, a, a supervisor who is, uh, problematic is probably the diplomatic way to, to put it, uh, and everything in between. So. So when you talk about mentoring, um, what exactly are you talking about? I think shell, that brings in the concept of trust, what you’ve just mentioned there, uh, and the degree to which the mentor and mentee relationship is one built on trust and the degree to which the mentee is actually prepared to open themselves up and share in a way that, uh, obviously they need to trust you, but also in a way that they probably wouldn’t with people that they know. More, more more, um, than than than you, you know. So I think the, the way in which the mentor is positioned relative to the mentee is clearly important as well. Um, I always think I was interested to hear Andrea talk about your mentoring of your employees. Uh, is that something that they would expect, do you think? Um, so I read something somewhere a few years ago, and it’s stuck in my head that, you know, my business isn’t going to last forever. It’s a small business. Maybe we’ll get acquired. Maybe. Who knows what will happen. But the people in my team, they’ll have long careers. And so a part of my why is because I love internal communications so much and I feel so passionate about it. Part of my why is to help share my knowledge, my approaches, like help them basically carry the torch in the future. But in their own way. Like I have one woman who’s just amazing at client relations and she has a real focus on digital. I have another person who’s a really great strategist, so like helping them grow in their own way. But at the same time, you know, my vision is people who will carry the torch for internal communications for the next, you know, twenty, thirty, maybe even forty years. I’ve always used mentoring as, um, a two way street as well. Right. The best mentoring relationships that I’ve ever had was I learned as much from my mentee as as they may have learned from me. So I love going in into the relationship. Um, looking to get something out of it myself. And and if there’s a selection process, try to, you know, not necessarily go for somebody who’s in the exact same role or, you know, it’s about diversity of thought or age or gender or roles, whatever it might be. Because the the most successful mentor relationships, I think, is when you learn as much as you give. Uh, but I would like to know, you know, how did you see, um, because. Okay, let me start from my side. Um, I see mentoring is where I, the person will come to me and say, I have this, uh, problem with my supervisor, and he or she will tell me the situation. And if I mentor the person, I will say, well, in a situation like this, this is what I would have done or this is what I have done, and that was the outcome. So this is how I solved the problem for me. And you know, my definition of mentoring, that is mentoring. While coaching would be, um, if you look at your, uh, supervisor would why do you think he is responding like that? And then the person will say, why? And then I would say, well, how does your personality perhaps contribute to this problem? And then perhaps, well, how do you see the long term impact of this relationship. And you know, so if I mentor I do all the thinking. I do all the talking while in my coaching role, the other person would do the thinking, the other person will do the talking. And I think that’s that’s important to distinguish between the roles. So, um, you know, uh, I’ve been working with a client for eleven years now. I started mentoring and coaching her when she was a generalist, and she’s now a GM. So every time she gets to this ceiling, we would have this relationship. And for me, that is the the amazing satisfaction that I get from that. Mhm. Don’t you think it also depends on what the person needs and to a certain extent what you need. Like now I have a bigger team and I’ve got different generations. So I need to understand them. So I’m, I’m learning from them as Brian was saying. But it’s also like where are the gaps. Where do they need help? Where do they need support. It’s like really driven by the person, the relation, like the aspects of the relationship. You know, like everybody, you know, you need five different friends, A friend who will go running with you. A friend who will, like, go on a holiday because they’re really great at travel, you know. You know, that kind of thing. You can also say that about husbands or wives, like different people satisfy different things. But my point is it really depends on what what’s needed in the relationship. Yeah, definitely. Amanda, in your in your description that you just had, how would you describe who drives the process? Um, I’ve always thought of mentoring. As you know, the mentee has to own it and is responsible and accountable and and really drives the process forward. So would how do you how do you react to that? Uh, in the mentoring process, the person would come to me and say, um, I have a problem with this, please help me. And so initially, the person will come to me, so the the driver will be the person, but then I will say, okay, now in a situation like this, this is how I responded. So then I would do the thinking, I would do the talking, and the person will ask me questions and I will respond to the questions. So the person will learn from my experience while in the coaching, uh, situation, uh, I want the person to dig into his or her own experience and see if we can perhaps find a solution there. And that is why also, um, like to in a, in a situation like that, say to the person, perhaps we should, uh, think about using this model. Why don’t you read this article or read this book? And then next time when we get together, we discuss this concept. Um, so it also gives the person a Responsibility not only to look at me for advice, but to have this higher level discussion about, uh, emotional intelligence, uh, about, uh, impact players. So how do you become an impact player? So that for me is very healthy. So I drive the advice in that sense. But eventually in our next discussion, the person will again do the talking. I will ask, do the the guidance on applying this in this situation. Yeah, I think you’re right though, Brent, that people need to come prepared to the conversation in terms of what they need to know, what they want from the conversation, uh, from the relationship. I think that’s really important. Like even just the one on ones I have with my team, it’s their meeting, their chance to to talk to me, for me to help them with their career or, or their, you know, their goals, those kinds of things. So and of course, I come prepared as well. And I’m thinking about, well, what do I see? Um, I also get a lot because I own my own business. I also get asked about business advice too. So people who want to start their own, either consulting company or even just a different type of business. So there’s that too, you know? Yeah, I always found that it like the more structured the mentee can make it in terms of maybe topics or, you know, agendas or even setting the cadence for how often and when you’re going to meet, uh, is a great starting point. And then, of course, the conversation as it’s happening is very, um, free flowing and, you know, kind of fewer guardrails on it from that perspective. But I think having the mentee own the responsibility, um, for kind of the logistics side of it almost makes a ton of sense. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I’ve always seen that the process and the relationship is owned by the mentee. I think this is particularly important given that there’s a certain volunteerism about this. The mentee is coming to you voluntarily for assistance, uh, and therefore, uh, what what you owe the mentee for that is to ensure that they are satisfied. And I think part of that satisfaction is to ask the mentee, for example, always, as I as I do, always come to me with a specific issue that you’ve thought through and with specific points that you’d like, you’d like to deal with. So it’s just like any situation be be clear about what our objectives are, because otherwise you could spend a whole of a mentoring session going around the houses, but not actually get anywhere concrete in terms of what the what the mentee either wants or indeed needs. And of course, sometimes what the what the mentee wants and what the mentee needs are not the same. And part of our responsibility, I think, sometimes as mentors, is to eek out what the difference is between the two of them. For somebody who is. I’m sorry. Go ahead. Thank you. You go. Alright. Uh, for somebody who is going to become a mentor for the first time, they’ve agreed to fulfill this role. What can they do to prepare if they’ve never done this before? Uh, I can start. I, I was part of a mentorship program, and I was. I was actually afraid. I’m like, what do I have to offer? Um, and I, I always also wanted to really be like, I’m a helper. I really wanted to be supportive. I wanted to be, you know, the best mentor. And so I did quite a bit of preparation. There’s lots of resources around. But you also to friend’s point, you have to make sure that your mentee becomes comes prepared. Um, but I think listening with an open heart, sharing your experience in an honest way, like I think people will learn more from our failures than our successes. Um, and that, you know, building psychological safety, helping make it a safe space for them to talk and to share your own experience. I think you need to be prepared to be part of an open relationship. Uh, you need absolutely agree with Andrew. You need to be able to prepare to to be prepared to expose some of your own vulnerabilities as an example of where you’ve been, uh, so that people can see the mentee can see that, you know, this is not something that’s unique to them. It’s a problem that many people have come across before. And I think, um, there are probably things that I might discuss with mentees that I may not discuss with many other people. Uh, that, of course, is part of the trust relationship that we that we were talking about earlier. Yeah, I would say the keys for me are, you know, active listening, which of course is way different than just engaging in the conversation and, um, transparency overall. Be vulnerable yourself. Be ready for vulnerabilities. On the other side, I’ve had mentees, you know, in tears, uh, during conversations, I assume. Not because of anything I did, um, just because of the situation. And, um, you know, being able to help them, help them through that. So it, um, it’s very much that, that to a to a street, um, of course, but but active listening, um, and pretty much complete transparency. And as Russell said it that goes to to trust. And so it’s probably not going to happen at the very first session, especially if you don’t know each other. Um, do you ever ask the mentee to sign a document of confidentiality, or do you sign a document of confidentiality? Uh, that is a good question. I think even in the super formal programs that I’ve been a part of, I’ve. That that’s not been a part of it. I mean, you agree to certain, um, parameters as as part of the relationship, but I’ve never actually signed anything that I can recall. Yeah. Now, I just wondered, uh, because I haven’t signed it. You know, anything? Also, uh, except the declaration that I signed with the company, but, uh, otherwise, never. Um, but, uh, you know what? What intrigued me about mentoring is that, uh, at different stages of a person’s career, they need different types of mentoring. And that as a mentor, you should know that if you if you’re mentoring a foundational person, that you should not come from a business strategist framework when you mean to that person, because that my experience is that that poor person would be so scared of, you know, oh my goodness, is that what I need to do in my role? So, you know, aligning your mentor, mentoring input with the level of the person that you are mentoring a little bit higher to let them grow. But also remember that you you must stay, not you must stay on the level and a little bit higher and not more than that. Yeah it’s great. And as with audiences, right? It’s not about you. It’s about them. Yeah, yeah. I also think like helping people see like see the bigger picture and, and look forward because a lot of people are stuck in what’s going on now. And I know there’s a lot of uncertainty in the world and careers are changing. But helping them see the different paths, like we know in our work, employees want to know how they can learn and grow. And so helping them, seeing those different paths, seeing the different options, helping them help themselves in terms of learning, career development and growth, I think is also a really big thing that that, uh, your mentor would appreciate. There’s another aspect, if you’re if it’s a program within your organization, which is how to navigate some of the things that might be particular to your company. Um, you know, whether it’s politics or, you know, um, what the signs of, of good leaders are or what, what to work on to sort of get ahead within this organization, which, you know, we’d need to be more general if if it was sort of, uh, you know, through IVC or some other similar organization where it wasn’t specific to the company. So I think that is where you can be a of particular advantage, particularly in a large organization where you know enough about the organization to be able to to to provide advice and guidance. But you’re not so close to the issues, and you don’t know the people too strongly that it would be difficult to to to talk about, um, across the government communication service. We have a formal mentoring program in which we just put ourselves forward, uh, on a list, as it were. And I find that the people who tend to look me up, and I’m sure it’s the case with other mentees, are those that are kind of at arm’s length, but not so far away. So that that that element of the relationship that I’ve just described where you’re close enough. But but not not not too close allows you I think you, I think allows you to have an effective relationship and effective and an effective solution, uh, and one that, uh, you know, you would regard as successful if when the mentee then comes back and says, actually, thank you for solving that. I didn’t see that that that does lead on actually to how how do we judge the success of a mentoring relationship? Well, for me, was that the progress that this person made in the organization because, uh, I was, you know, I would say I, I coached sixty percent of the time and mentored forty percent of the time because she had to build her confidence that she actually can deal with what is on the table, because that was the reason why she came to me, that she felt helpless and in instead of just saying to her, well, this is how I do this and this and this. I say to her, okay, what what do you think we could do? And, uh, if you if you take the personality of this person, what can you do to convince this person that you can actually do more. So for me, and that is why I keep coming back to coaching because, uh, coaching, uh, in the I’m a certified coach is building the confidence of the person. Mentoring is sharing your experience to give the person an idea of potential behavior. So that’s that’s what I do. I was going to say that I can’t really answer the question, except if you see them succeed. Succeed them. See them happy in their role solving certain problems. But I also wanted to say it’s immensely satisfying, and I think that’s why I love doing it. When you’re mentoring someone, seeing them solve these challenges, seeing them grow, seeing them flourish is is always so amazing. Yeah, I have a bit of a funny story. We had a formal mentoring program in my company that has since evolved, but it began as a retention strategy around, um, you know, uh, retaining high performance in a particular demographic group. And so all the mentees came from that group. Um, we I meant I mentored four people throughout the course over four years. Um, and three of them, you know, promptly left the company after, uh, the mentoring relationship was over, uh, which, you know, maybe, um, unsuccessful at some point because the strategy was around retention. But I viewed it as highly successful because they were able to grow. And yes, it would have been great to to see them flourish within the company. But having helped set them up for success, they go elsewhere. Uh, you know, I’m perfectly fine with that. And it’s, it’s part of the risk of a, of a program that we ran like that. But, uh, so I was one for four, but in my mind I was really for, for, for. I think a lot of companies are developing like formal mentoring programs to as a part of the employee experience. I think it’s really important, especially for marginalized communities or people who may have be at a slight disadvantage. Um, so I hope those high performers, Brent, were also like from disadvantaged groups or whatever, but I think it’s it’s something that organizations really look at. Um, it’s also a way of maximizing the benefit you’re getting from your senior staff and tapping into their experience. Yeah, I remember I remember communicating, uh, a mentorship program for an employer several years ago. And one of the things that I remember about it was that one of the rules of the program was that you would, uh, change mentors. Uh, I think it was every six months, uh, that you shouldn’t stick with the same mentor for the duration. Uh, I’m wondering about your feelings about that. I’ve. As I said, I’ve been mentoring, uh, Sarah now for, uh, three or four years. Uh, and she has no interest in finding somebody else. And I’m very happy with the relationship. Um, and I think about my mentors, and these are just people that I’ve known and worked with. There was no formal program. Um, I think when you hear people say, oh, yeah, he was my mentor, uh, or she was my mentor. These are people that had that sort of an ongoing relationship in a formal mentorship program. Is it important to rotate through different mentors and mentees? I can tell my own personal story. When I was very new in in academia, I had a mentor, and unfortunately I had the same mentor for the whole duration of my tenure, and I fell into what they call the mentor trap. So I became so, um, close to this person that I could. I felt that I couldn’t make any decision before he approved it, before he said, well, this is what I would have done. And yes, that’s the right way. So when he resigned, it was like, in my whole world fell apart and I just couldn’t see myself going on because he also didn’t, you know, um, enabled me to go alone. And I think as a mentor and a coach, that is one of our responsibilities to give the the person wings and not to make him your property and become dependent on you. And, um. Yeah. So, um, I think, uh, it’s two ways, uh, it’s your responsibility to to grow the person. And, you know, not that the person become too attached to you. And, uh, it is sometimes necessary that, um, people change mentors, but I think it can also be disruptive. I also think there’s a law of diminishing returns. Uh, I think you’re probably most effective in a mentoring relationship. Um, after, say, sessions two, three or four, you’re welcome to disagree with this, but I think by the time you get to maybe sessions, I don’t know, eight, nine or ten, if you’re still going that long, then I think there is. Most of the heavy lifting has probably been done by then, and I think there is a danger that sometimes you can over mentor, uh, that you won’t you go into areas that probably are not that necessary for the mentee. Um, but because the mentor and the mentee are in this relationship, neither of them wants to break it off. I think. I think that can be quite, uh, quite disadvantageous to both, to both mentor and mentee, actually. So, um, I would say I think there’s probably to your question, I think you should rotate, actually. Yeah. And some like I agree, mostly because I also think that you, you learn a lot from different people. Like one person, you know, you learn from different perspectives, different experiences. But I also think there’s something really powerful about having a long term relationship, someone who can maybe open doors for you or help you through different, you know, really gets to know you, helps you through different phases of your career. I think that, like, I’ve never had that. And I think I always think that that would have been really helpful or powerful for me. Um, so I can see both sides. Yeah. I was going to say, um, you know, the classic. It depends. And, um, I think my favorite answer to any question. Yeah. Um, I think the key word you raised there was relationship, right? Because. Because it is a relationship based on trust as we’ve we’ve talked about. And that takes time to develop, especially if you’re meeting, say, monthly, right, in a formal way. Um, I would personally, I think six months is is probably a little late. Um, but at the same time, there’s definitely value in, um, in a diversity of, of voice for the, for the mentee. Right. Um, different perspectives, different personality types, different roles, whatever it might be. Um, and I think there also has to be an understanding that, like, listen, if it’s not working for either party, you got to, you got to, um, call it. And, um, that doesn’t need to, you know, last the, the program recommended length or whatever, right. If it’s if it’s not a fit, it’s not a fit. It happens. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the benefits of this long term relationship mentor coach relationship that I have with this one client of mine is that it is intensely project based. So we will work on a project with her. I will work with on a project with her, and then we will, you know, go through the project and see to its end. And sometimes entries for a call even. And then we’ll start with another project. Or sometimes we work on several projects together. Always things that she works on. And so then we, um, I help her think through things or help her research things. I find research articles for her. Then we discuss the research article. So perhaps it’s not a, you know, typical, uh, relationship mentor coaching relationship. But I do a lot of mentoring, and I, I do even more coaching because she needs confidence. I have a question. Sorry. No. Go ahead. I think it gets back to solving the problem that’s in front of us. Um, and making sure that we tailor our approach to the person that we’re trying to help. Yeah. Yeah. I have a question for Russell and Brent, because you both mentioned that you have, uh, had mentoring programs within your organizations. What was the motivation in the organization for establishing that program? And after I hear from you, I have a follow up question that I’ll throw to all of you. I think in the government communication service in the UK, it was a recognition that we’ve got some six to seven thousand communications practitioners across the whole of you need to understand this is across the whole of every government and arm’s length body that you can, you can imagine, of which there are about five hundred different organisations. Um, and uh, recognition that, uh, that we weren’t really maximizing the potential, the experience, etc., of quite a lot of senior practitioners. Um, and how did we how did we do that? Uh, it was started as a pilot, uh, probably, I’m guessing now five or six years ago. Uh, and, uh, there’s absolutely no, you know, there’s no compunction. There’s obviously no money involved. Uh, it was very much a feeling from some people. I’ll include myself in that, uh, of wanting as a senior practitioner to give something back to the profession. Um, and also, I think many of us also find it satisfying. We’ve talked about this already, a satisfying thing to do. Um, so the the program is self-sustaining. Um, it largely runs itself. It’s very much down to mentor and mentee choosing each other. Um, and we might go on to this in a second, but of course, uh, that, that the choice of a mentee to a mentor isn’t always right either. Um, and, uh, we have a few guardrails around it. There’s a kind of, uh, crib sheet about, you know, how to how to mentor and what to do and what not to do and stuff like that. Um, but that that was the original, original motivation for it. Brent. Yeah. And for, for our organization, I mentioned earlier, it started as a retention strategy around a, um, a particular underrepresented group that had high performers who were leaving the company at a, at a rate that we didn’t feel was acceptable. So this was one of the solutions, um, to retain, uh, high performers within that group. Um, so that, you know, was a fairly manual process at the time, going back several years, uh, where, um, leaders were involved in matching mentees and mentors. Um, but they were cross-functional areas. I think I had two marketing, uh, folks, uh, in the United States, uh, I had a purchasing person and then a project manager. So the, um, it was, uh, a highly successful at the time other than me, I think, because I lost three of them. Um, and then that evolved over time into sort of just opening it up to everybody who thought that they might need a mentor as a bit of an employee experience, um, uh, program. And so now we use, uh, online tools that, you know, upload profiles, and the mentees can, uh, based on their needs and, and whether they want, you know, kind of in person or they don’t want somebody, uh, in this role or whatever. So there’s a whole matching process that, uh, that goes along with it now and, uh, it’s it’s proving to be, uh, you know, quite a good, um, quite a good program. The reason I ask, as I did some research on this topic in preparation for today’s panel, uh, I found that there was some criticism of organizational mentor programs in that they promote conformity. uh, that if you have the current leaders in the organization mentoring the younger people in the organization, you’re just turning them into mini me’s, right? Just, uh, it’s. Sort of the anti-diversity, uh, pipeline. Uh, and I’m wondering, how do you handle mentorship within an organization without that program becoming a pipeline for conformity? I have something to say. Pipeline for conformity, a good idea? Yeah. No, I have something to say like that. Forgets that the mentorship goes both ways. Right? So we are as we’re mentoring, we’re also learning. And like I’ve learned a lot about like from my Gen Z and my millennials about like their expectations around work. And I’ve changed. Like I’ve changed my policies. I’ve changed how I work. Just I’ve yeah, I’ve I’ve learned a lot from them and that’s changed our organization. I think our small little organization for the better. Um, so I think that that’s the missing piece there. Yeah, I would say shell that within our organization in this in our program. It’s certainly true. For me personally, your responsibility as the mentor is not to the company, it’s to the mentee. And so, um, I, I don’t feel the need to not that I coached anybody to leave, but, um, setting them up for success in career and life. Uh, if I can put it that way, uh, is the most important thing based on what they need to do. Not necessarily that we, um, retain them. And hopefully no one from my company is watching this. I agree. I agree. Your responsibility is is not to the organization. It is to the mentee. Um, it it’s also true to Andrea’s point that actually it’s one way that you’re keeping in touch with the rest of the organization. So what can happen, particularly in a large organization, is as the organization demographics, if you like, are changing at the at the lower level, you can keep out. You can be out of touch with that. And it’s one way to just keep in touch with what is happening across the whole organization, from what the mentee is mentoring is mentoring you about in terms of that, that, that, kind of that, that kind of approach. Russell, I once I recently read one of these business philosophers said that any person older than fifty needs a mentor of twenty five. Mm mm mm. Yeah. In our program. Amanda, to that point, you can sign up and lots of people do sign up as a mentor and a mentee. Yeah. Do you have a twenty five year old mentoring you, Brent? Uh, not at the moment, but I you know what? We have actually the kickoff to the next year of the program is in about an hour and a half, and, uh, I may, I may I may take it up on that I may set myself down for as being a mentee. Lots to learn from those folks, right? Yes. Oh, yeah. Tons. Yeah. So it raises an interesting question because there is this concept of reverse mentoring. Yeah. It’s usually brought up in terms of technology, uh, because the younger employees are are more adept at the newer digital technologies that the, the older, uh, more senior people, uh, probably aren’t using because they have admins to, to do that sort of thing. Uh, have you been involved in any of those kinds of mentor programs, and what do you think of them? More informal than formal because they definitely they they say these programs are these platforms are intuitive. I think they’re intuitive for the younger generations, not from my generation. I think that there’s like you can get tutorials almost anywhere. Like the other day, I fixed a problem that no one on my team was able to fix, and I just ai helped. But, um, I think there’s much more powerful ways to use reverse mentoring. Kind of like I was talking about before. Understanding different generations. What can they bring to the table? I wrote an article about because I’m really fascinated about making sure like how to make sure different generations create a better workplace rather than, you know, create friction. And there’s a lot of great studies that show if you harness the power and the values and the perspectives of all those generations, you can really flourish as an organization. So I think that’s where the power is not figuring out where to my, my, um, my conquest or whatever was figuring out how to put page numbers on Canva presentations like, you know, like that’s not to me, that’s not really that powerful. But the power is in the generations and learning from each other. Yeah. Amanda, you’ve talked about the difference between mentoring and coaching. Uh, and I’m wondering about mentoring people on your own team when you’re supposed to be their supervisor, you’re supposed to be supervising them. You’re supposed to be evaluating their performance. You’re supposed to be coaching them. Uh, this is something that I have heard from leaders in my organization is I work in construction, which very traditionally is I tell you what to do, and you do it, uh, and they’re really trying to change that to to coaching. I remember our former CEO talking about, you know, if you think about a coach on a Little league team helping you adjust your swing, uh, this is the type of thing he wanted to see our managers doing with their employees. Uh, should those managers be mentoring as well? Or should they advise their people to find somebody else to be their mentor? I think in some industries, it’s easier to have a mentor and a coaching program, um, as a supervisor, because, you know, I think, for instance, in a construction environment, in a mining environment, especially in the operational levels, I think it is it would be difficult. And I think that a person becomes ready for mentoring, um, and ready for coaching. So I think on the operational levels where you have a team leader, where way. You have a supervisor. I, I think few people at that level have the need for mentoring and coaching as a leader. You have the responsibility, in any case, to mentor and coach these people, uh, during work, uh, you know, team meetings, during personal interactions with them. But that would be unstructured. It would be, um, how are you dealing with this? So it would be five minute coaching, five minute mentoring here and there during the day. So I can’t see that they would that as a supervisor in a construction company or in a team leader in a hospitality industry or a, um, mine that I would coach and mentor these people. I think they’re not ready for that. But in the more the more, um, senior Their levels, they will become ready for that. Now you just solve their problem. I completely agree with that. I think it very much depends on on the the nature of the business that you’re in. Um, certainly I regard my main, my principal relationship with my team as a mentoring one, mentoring or coaching, whichever you want. I do not regard it principally as a supervisory one. Uh, and I think if it was a supervisory one, something has probably gone wrong in the relationship. But that’s the kind of business that I’m in. And I think maybe in construction where safety is first and you do need to do what you’re told for your own safety. I think it might be different. So, um, maybe it’s horses for courses. Um, definitely. I would say that like. Let’s say within my, my team, for example, which is not huge, uh, the, the lines or the definitions of mentoring and coaching are, you know, a little less important, perhaps. Um, uh, it’s just what you do on a on a day to day basis, whether it’s something really specific and they need to be told what to do, or they need some advice about some other potential issue, whatever it might be, that’s just part of the day to day job of a of a manager or leader of a team. I would hesitate to, and I don’t think I would actually take on a member of my, my team in a formal mentoring relationship. I think that’s that’s for somebody else in a different perspective. Yeah. Great. Definitely. Andrea, you mentioned AI earlier. Not in the context of mentoring. It was looking looking up how to do something technically. Uh, but there’s a lot of data suggesting that, especially among younger people, they are turning to AI for this type of activity. Uh, I wonder what you think about that. Uh, as AI as a mentor. I have to tell you, I set up a custom GPT. Um, there are only two of us in our communications department, and I don’t have the budget to work with a consultant. Uh, and there are times that I would like to be able to bounce my ideas or my thoughts off of, uh, a very knowledgeable, senior, experienced, uh, communicator. So I created one, uh, in a custom GPT, uh, and I have to confess, it works pretty well. Uh, I wouldn’t call her my mentor. Uh, just a senior colleague that I can I can bounce ideas off of. But I wonder what you think AI fits into this whole realm of mentorship. First of all, you called your your AI expert a she, which I’m very happy about. Sorry, Russell. No, it is a female dominated profession, so it seemed appropriate and and a different perspective. Right. I think it’s just another tool in our toolbox. Right. It’s just another way of bouncing, like you said, bouncing ideas off, getting direction, whatever. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. Of course, what’s missing is the human relationship we talked about relationship built on trust. Um, um, support, empathy, those kinds of things. And I don’t think you can replace that, but it is another important tool. Yeah. And I agree with you. I think that there is a place to have this, uh, mentor in your screen and to ask them a couple of questions, but eventually, um, people would need people to, to engage with that. It is more, you know, talking about your problem and talking about your need for assistance, that that’s solving half of the problem. Like Socrates said, we all have the solutions. We just need to somebody to ask us the right questions. So, um, you know, either the mentee or the the coach doesn’t matter. But, uh, I think use AI for certain things, but eventually they will be a need for a person. I’m I’m sorry to say I agree with what Amanda just said. I’m sorry to say that if we were asking this question in twenty years time, we would probably concede that the AI was a much better mentor and empathizer and, um, more structured approach had a more structured and professional approach than the human. And that’s really worrying. Um, I think the question you’ve asked is very interesting. Um, shell, uh, particularly young people over relying at the moment on what is basically a machine to provide them with life advice. Uh, and I think that’s, it’s a really I’ve seen a couple of examples of that. And I think it’s really, really worrying. And, um, I don’t know where it’s all headed. Uh, but let’s see what happens when we have this conversation in twenty years time. Well, not only that conversation, not only life advice, but relationships like people like talking about attachments or whatever. So, yeah, that human relationship is just so important. And, uh, yeah, I can tell you, I have made way more mistakes than ChatGPT has ever made. So people are learning from those, right? Yeah. And people will learn from your mistakes. Right? Like, exactly. Just not there yet. That the human element and all the things, the lived experiences that we bring to the table as mentors or to the relationship, um, at the moment can’t be replicated by the machine. Yeah. You know, one of my prescribed books in my early studies said that originally, um, the the church decided to, uh, print the Bible and teach the people to read that they can read, you know, all the mistakes that they make and that they they need the church. But unfortunately, uh, the people also read other books. So it was that unintended consequence. But, um, I also feel that, you know, when books, when advice books, self-help books became so popular, people said, yes, but everybody is now finding solutions in these self-help books. They don’t go to the, uh, the people that they used to go to, which would typically be the mentor or, sorry, the the minister, the parents. And because books books is a problem, everybody, they’re not going to need us anymore. So, Russell, I fear that I don’t agree with you. I think in twenty years time, the people that will sit and discuss this problem would say, yeah, some people you can find solutions on AI, like you can find solutions in books, but eventually people still need. While we are human beings, people still need the right of somebody else’s eyes to just do, to feel cared for and to feel helped. And not this cold thing that you know. So I hope so. I hope, I hope so. I think one advantage AI has if, if, if I’ve had a particularly troubling or upsetting experience at the office, and I want to talk to my mentor and he’s not available, the AI is available. It’s not going to tell me it’s busy. I’m sorry, I’m in a meeting. I can’t talk right now. Uh, we only have a couple of minutes left. I want to go around and, uh, get your your one quick response to the question what can cause mentoring to fail? Chemistry. Chemistry. Oh, the lack of it or the lack of it? Um, I thought we might have touched on this earlier, actually, that, um. Sometimes the chemistry just isn’t right. Uh, I think we talked about trust and everything. Everything in that, in that department. Uh, I think the truth is that as humans, uh, relationships are based ultimately on chemistry, and sometimes the chemistry just isn’t right. And I think you I think you know that after the first, um, interaction, I always say to anybody that I’m taking on as a mentor, let’s have an initial chat and then see where we want to go from there. I never commit, and I would never want a mentor to commit to a relationship from the get go before we’ve had an initial, uh, basically, you know, what what What are we? What do we like to each other? Uh, Russell, I want to take the total opposite. I think another reason why mentorship programs fail is when people become too close. Because the chemistry is working too well, and that eventually you cannot distance yourself sufficiently from that person because you feel too sorry or anything like that. So I think the balance is important. Yeah, that open conversation, I would say a lack of preparation or effort. Okay. And Brent. Yeah, I would say maybe a mismatch of objectives. Right. Like a lack of understanding of what each party wants to get out of the relationship. You have to you have to come to agreement on that. Um, kind of more upfront. Yeah. And let’s see if we can cover this one question that we actually got from Brian Kilgore. Uh, is YouTube a mentor? It certainly tells photographers what camera to buy or how to set up lights, and I can agree with that. Uh, it does, but is that mentorship or is that more something else? That’s instructions. That’s instructions. Resources. I would say it’s an aid mentor. Yeah. Not a replacement. Right. No, it’s I think it’s like the difference between a teacher and a mentor. Um, so AI, uh, sorry, YouTube would be the teacher. I would sit there and look at this video and learn something from it, because I want to learn something from it. So I’ve always seen it as a relationship. Yeah, yeah. I’ve written a little, uh, routine, uh, using one of Google’s lab, uh, tools that goes into the YouTube video, extracts the steps. So I’m no longer having to rewind the video to find the one that I missed. Uh, the steps have all been articulated for me in this tool. So there’s a use of AI. Uh, this has been great. Uh, we’re out of time. I do want to let everybody know that the next circle of fellows is scheduled for the same time, noon eastern time on Thursday, February twenty sixth. We will be talking, uh, to some extent, about the new Edelman Trust Barometer, which talks about, uh, insularity. Uh, last year’s was about grievance, and we’re talking about communicating in the age of Grievance. The panel is Priya Bates, Alice Brink, Jane Mitchell and Jennifer Waugh. So that will be great. Thank you, everybody, for a wonderful conversation today. And for those of you who are watching in real time, uh, appreciate that, Brian. Appreciate the question and see you all next month. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye bye bye.

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