In this episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast, I bring back one of my favourite holiday episodes, which is an interview with my kids, where we talk about ‘people, not stuff’.Every year around the holidays, I hear from parents who are worried their kids are too focused on presents, too greedy, or too materialistic — and they’re afraid they’re getting something wrong. I made this episode to offer a long-term perspective. I interviewed my own kids (then 14, 17, and 20) about what holidays and gifts felt like when they were little — and what actually ma...
In this episode of the Peaceful Parenting Podcast, I bring back one of my favourite holiday episodes, which is an interview with my kids, where we talk about ‘people, not stuff’.
Every year around the holidays, I hear from parents who are worried their kids are too focused on presents, too greedy, or too materialistic — and they’re afraid they’re getting something wrong. I made this episode to offer a long-term perspective.
I interviewed my own kids (then 14, 17, and 20) about what holidays and gifts felt like when they were little — and what actually mattered as they got older.
Us last year at Christmas- on one of the Christmas Day walks we discussed on the podcast:
In the episode, we talk about why “wanting stuff” is normal in childhood, how values really develop over time, and why parents can relax a lot more than they think.
🎉🎂 Also- today is my birthday!
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xx Sarah (and Corey!)
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You can listen wherever you get your podcasts, OR we’ve included a fully edited transcript of our interview at the bottom of this post.
We talk about:
* 2:00 — Intro: replay episode + why parents worry about “greedy/materialistic” kids
* 3:00 — Holiday schedule update + invitation to email podcast ideas/guest suggestions
* 3:34 — Why this episode: parents’ concerns about consumerism + interviewing Sarah’s kids
* 4:00 — Important context: privilege, money, and why this worry comes from a privileged place
* 5:00 — Two practical ways to handle privilege: Santa gifts + donating new presents
* 7:00 — Meet Maxine (14): how holiday meaning shifts with age (family time, traditions, coziness)
* 11:38 — “Ungrateful” little kids: why it’s normal + what parents shouldn’t panic about
* 13:23 — What helps long-term: building traditions + experiences as gifts
* 16:34 — Meet Asa (17): growing out of the “wanting stuff” stage + values changing over time
* 21:05 — Middle school + fitting in: when brand-name wanting peaks (and why)
* 22:30 — What parents should do: keep kids grounded + relax
* 23:01 — Meet Lee (20): consumerism awareness, “people not stuff,” and the post-holiday letdown
* 32:00 — Gratitude + privilege: why kids can’t fully grasp it yet, and how it comes with time
* 33:31 — Reassurance: if you’re worried about this, you’re probably already doing fine
* 34:34 — Wrap-up: “the parenting podcast paradox” + holiday wishes
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xx Sarah and Corey
Your peaceful parenting team- click here for a free short consult or a coaching session
Visit our website for free resources, podcast, coaching, membership and more!
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Here’s the polished transcript of the interview-
Today’s episode is a replay of an episode from four years ago.
So many parents get worried, especially at this time of year, that their kids are materialistic and greedy and will never have good values. I thought you could use a little window into the future, and it would be helpful for you to see where we are in my family and what it’s like as kids get older.
So I interviewed my kids about their experiences growing up with presents and holidays and stuff. So if your kid has a case of the greedy, you’ll see, if you listen to my kids, that it won’t last forever. At the time of the interviews, they were 14, 17, and 20. Today they’re 18, 21, and 24. Things really do shift as your kids get older.
My older two kids live on their own—and they have for a few years—and so far, all they’ve said they want for Christmas is socks. Things really do change.
If this holiday support episode is helpful and you aren’t on my email list, make sure you check out the other posts that we have on Substack. As I mentioned, just search up Substack and Sarah Rosensweet and you’ll find us.
My team and I are going to be taking a bit of time off for the holidays. We will be back in the new year with new episodes of this podcast. And if you have any ideas for the podcast, or any guests that you’d like to have on, or you would like to be coached on the podcast, shoot me an email: sarah@sarahrosensweet.com.
I’d love to hear from you about any ideas you have for the podcast—what you’d like to have coming up in the new year.
Here we go back to the podcast. Enjoy this replay, whether it’s your first time hearing it or if you’ve heard it before.
Sarah: Today’s episode is a response to some parents’ questions and concerns that I received when I did a call-out asking people what they were concerned about over the holidays. And some parents were really feeling stressed about materialism and consumerism of the holidays, and their kids getting too many presents or wanting too much stuff.
So I interviewed my kids about it—what their perspective was, having gone through the “I want more presents” stage, and now they’re teenagers. They’re 14, 17, and one of them’s not a teenager anymore—he’s 20. So I interviewed them because they’ve been through it, and I’ve been through it with them.
But before we dive into the interviews, I just want to acknowledge that this is a very privileged position—that we have the privilege of being able to be concerned that our kids have too much stuff, or they’re getting too many presents, or that they’re worried too much about getting things and being able to buy things.
For a number of years when our kids were little, my husband was a student and I was a stay-at-home mom, and we really didn’t have any money. We really had to watch every penny. But we still had privilege because we got government assistance—child tax benefit. We live in Canada where we have socialized medicine, so we didn’t need to worry about health insurance.
And we also had the family safety net privilege, which was that we knew if we ever were really in dire straits, our parents would help us out.
And our kids had privilege even though we didn’t have money in those years, because they got a lot of presents from their grandparents. I think we mention that in the interviews that are coming up.
So my husband and I—we didn’t have much money, but we didn’t need to worry about buying them gifts because they had five sets of grandparents. Hello, divorce and remarriage.
So I just really wanted to acknowledge that I am speaking from a place of privilege, my children are speaking from a place of privilege, and those parents who reached out to me concerned about too many presents and materialism and “What are we gonna do when our kids just want so much stuff?”—they’re also speaking from a place of privilege.
And many, many, many parents don’t have that. They don’t have enough money to buy presents for their kids. And those kids might be in school with kids who get tons of presents at Christmas.
So two small things that we can do—and I know these are really just a drop in the bucket—but while I’m here, I’m just going to make two suggestions for all of us listening who are coming from a place of privilege.
One is that we don’t get big presents from Santa. If we do celebrate Christmas and we do the Santa tradition, we don’t give our children big presents from Santa. That’s one thing, because what about kids who are getting hardly anything, if anything at all, from Santa?
Another is that we make donations. Those of us who have privilege—we either make donations to food banks, or we make donations by buying new presents. It’s great to donate things that your kids no longer play with. But what I’m asking here is that we donate new presents to organizations that will then distribute them to kids who are less financially privileged.
I know that’s not a ton, and I always feel kind of nervous and vulnerable when I talk about things like this. I’m still learning and I’m not perfect. However, I just wanted to address the issue of privilege—financial privilege—before we dive in.
So let me introduce you to my kids. If you didn’t hear them in episode one of the podcast, when they were talking about what it was like to be raised by peaceful parenting, you might wanna go back and give that a listen. But let me introduce you to Maxine, who’s 14; Asa, who’s 17; and Lee, who’s 20.
You’re gonna hear each of their perspectives on stuff and presents and materialism and consumerism, and what they think parents should do to raise kids who have great values.
Okay, let’s dive in. Hi, Maxine. Hello. Welcome to the podcast.
Maxine: Hi.
Sarah: Can you introduce yourself?
Maxine: I’m Maxine, and I’m your child.
Sarah: How old are you? I know how old you are, but other people don’t.
Maxine: I’m 14.
Sarah: All right. So do you remember when you were little, what was the best thing about birthdays—Christmas, holidays?
Maxine: Oh… presents, I guess.
Sarah: I think that’s what—well, I—
Maxine: I probably shouldn’t say that, because I know that’s, like, what the whole podcasting is about.
Sarah: No, it’s okay. That’s what I’m trying to normalize. The fact that for little kids, it’s all about presents, right?
Maxine: Yeah.
Sarah: So do you think you’re still in that phase at 14—that it’s mostly about the presents?
Maxine: Well, not really. I like spending time with you guys—especially since Lee moved out.
Sarah: So you’re looking forward to having your brother come home at Christmas. What else is meaningful to you about the Christmas holiday?
Maxine: Well, literally you and Dad don’t have to work that much when it’s—so we get to spend, like, the whole day together. And we always have a nice breakfast, and sometimes we get to help you with that and stuff like that.
Sarah: One of my favorite things the past couple of years that we’ve been doing is the family walk on Christmas.
Maxine: Yeah. It’s fun. And we always take Emmy, and she’s always so happy to be with all of us.
Sarah: Yeah, because she never gets all five of us to take her for a walk at once.
Maxine: Oh—Emmy. Emmy’s our dog, by the way, if you don’t know that.
Sarah: So do you still like the presents?
Maxine: Yeah, I still like presents. But, like, who doesn’t like presents? Even you and Dad like presents.
Sarah: That’s true. But the time with family—you’re starting to appreciate that more as you’re getting older. Do you ever remember getting a present you didn’t like when you were a kid?
Maxine: No, but I remember being disappointed that I didn’t get presents that I wanted.
Sarah: Oh yeah? Tell me about that.
Maxine: When I thought Santa was real, I would make lists and I wouldn’t get all the stuff, and I would be kind of sad.
Sarah: Yeah. And how do you think that affected you as a person?
Maxine: I don’t think it really mattered. I think I was just a little kid who wanted to have all the presents that I wanted.
Sarah: Yeah. Do you think that’s pretty normal?
Maxine: Yeah.
Sarah: Do you think parents should worry about that?
Maxine: No. I think you shouldn’t worry. But I think it’s weird if your kids aren’t excited about presents and don’t want lots and lots of presents, because that’s a normal thing for kids to want.
Sarah: And so what do you think happens as you get older, and now you’re like, “Yeah, I still like presents, but that’s not the most important thing.”
Maxine: I think when you’re little, you just don’t understand what the holidays—and what that is all about. But when you get older, you realize that it’s more about just being able to spend time with people and stuff.
And it’s also nice to give people presents instead of just always getting presents.
Sarah: What have been your favorite presents that you’ve given?
Maxine: I don’t know—like when I give my brothers records or stuff like that, and it just seems to make them happy, then it makes me feel good.
Sarah: Do you remember making presents?
Maxine: Yeah. I made presents—like this year or last year. I made those little tree decorations for my brothers and you and my dad and all the grandparents and stuff.
Sarah: That’s right. Those were nice.
Maxine: Those little candy cane things.
Sarah: Yeah, those were sweet.
Maxine: Also, I like Christmas because it’s all nice and cozy. And just—like on Christmas or just any holidays that we do as a family—but especially Christmas, when we’re all sitting around and listening to music and it’s all cozy in our house and stuff, and then we can look outside and stuff like that.
Sarah: I love that too. I love decorating the tree and then sitting and looking at it afterwards, having hot chocolate.
Maxine: Yeah.
Sarah: You know, that was a tradition that I did growing up too.
Maxine: Cool. Also sometimes on Christmas—or mostly Christmas or New Year’s—when our grandparents call to just say “Happy New Year” or “Merry Christmas,” that’s nice. And you get to talk to them.
Usually I call your mom, and I always show her all my presents and stuff.
Sarah: You know, Nana listens to the podcast. Do you want to say hi to her?
Maxine: Hi Nana.
Sarah: One of the other things that parents were worried about—and why I’m making this podcast—is that sometimes little kids seem really ungrateful. Like they get a whole giant pile of presents and then they’re like, “I wanted the blah blah blah,” or “I didn’t get that,” or “Why did he get more?”
What do you think those parents need to hear when they have little kids? What do they need to hear from an older kid?
Maxine: Like I said before, when I would not get presents that I wanted, but I would still get other presents—I would be sad or unhappy about it, that I didn’t get the other presents that I wanted. But after, I would realize how fun the presents I actually got were.
And honestly, if you have a four-year-old and they’re upset about not getting something, then they’re literally four. So you can’t really think that they’re ungrateful, because they don’t even know what that word means. They probably don’t even know how to say that word.
So you can’t really worry about them being ungrateful, because they don’t even know what that is.
Sarah: Right. And they don’t have anything to compare it to, right?
Maxine: Yeah, because they’re literally four.
Sarah: So if parents are really worried about that—if they think their kids think that toys are the most important thing—what would you say to those parents?
Maxine: Well, kids are just kids. I’m still a kid, but I know that presents aren’t the only thing that’s good about holidays and stuff. But I’m still learning. And if your kid is younger than me, then chances are they’ll know even less about that.
So honestly, kids are just kids, and they just think presents are so cool and exciting that they don’t know there’s more to it than presents.
Sarah: Right. Do you think there’s anything parents could or should do to teach their kids that there are things more important than presents?
Maxine: Well, you could do traditions, like what we do—like where you go on a walk, or you decorate your tree as a family or something. Or if you celebrate Hanukkah, doing little traditions for that and stuff. So when they’re older, they’ll see, “Oh, when we did all those things, those were nice traditions that my parents did.”
Sarah: Can you think of any other traditions that were important to you?
Maxine: Decorating cookies.
Sarah: I was thinking about that too. That’s a lot of fun. I’m really looking forward to doing that this year.
Maxine: And I already promised one of my teachers, Ms. Miller, that I was going to give her cookies. So we have to do it.
Sarah: We absolutely will, because she loves sugar.
Maxine: Yeah, she’s sugar.
Sarah: She does. Yeah.
I think you’ve always liked giving presents too. Is there anything else you think parents should know if they’re worried about their kids thinking that stuff is more important than people?
Maxine: Honestly, just what I said before: kids are just kids, and they don’t know anything other than presents. So don’t think it’s a big deal, because eventually they’ll realize more things about holidays, like I did.
But if your kid’s, like, six and they’re so excited about the presents and that’s all they can talk about, then honestly that’s a normal kid behavior.
Sarah: Right. And not worry about it.
Maxine: Well, not, like, normal, but a lot of kids are like that.
Sarah: Yeah. And I think if we can be excited for them too, right?
Maxine: Yeah. If you can show them that it’s so great that they’re excited about it, and it can be like, “I’m excited too,” then they’ll see it’s not something bad. But if you tell them, “No, you shouldn’t be this excited about presents. That’s not allowed…”
Sarah: That’s right.
Hey, do you remember—this is one thing I forgot to ask your brothers about—do you remember times when you’ve gotten an experience instead of a thing you can hold in your hands for a present?
Maxine: People have given me a ticket to go do something with me or something. Just for fun.
Sarah: I think Mimi took you to a show once.
Maxine: Yeah.
Sarah: And Uncle Les used to do sleepovers and movie night.
Maxine: Yeah.
Sarah: Do you think that’s a good idea? Do you think kids like that?
Maxine: Yeah. I liked—huh? But I’m not a normal kid.
Sarah: You’re not a normal kid? Why aren’t you a normal kid?
Maxine: Because I’m not. I don’t know how to explain it.
Sarah: I think you’re a pretty normal kid.
Maxine: No, I’m extraordinary.
Sarah: You’re also hilarious.
Maxine: Thanks, darling.
Sarah: You are welcome. Love you. You look funny with those big headphones on your head.
Maxine: Yeah, I’m sure.
Sarah: I do love you, kid.
Maxine: Oh, I love you.
Sarah: Hello. Okay. Okay, let’s get started. Can you introduce yourself?
Asa: My name’s Asa. I’m your son. I’m 17.
Sarah: Thanks for coming on the podcast.
Asa: Yeah, no problem.
Sarah: So when you were little, you and your older brother Lee used to spend hours looking at the Lego catalog and circling all the things that you wanted.
Asa: Uh-huh.
Sarah: Do you remember that?
Asa: Yeah.
Sarah: And I remember Dad used to really worry about that. He used to worry that you guys—your values were out of place, and you were gonna be super greedy kids and not care about the right things.
Asa: Right.
Sarah: He was right?
Asa: Yeah.
Sarah: Are you super greedy?
Asa: No.
Sarah: Now, I remember one year when you were around 11 and I said, “The grandparents are starting to ask what you want for Christmas,” because they wanted to get you something. And you stopped and you thought, and you said, “Mom, I think I have a pretty good life. I can’t think of anything I want.”
Do you remember that?
Asa: Yeah.
Sarah: So how did you go from the five-year-old who wanted everything in the Lego catalog to—
Asa: I think I kind of just grew out of it, I guess, is the best way to say it. I don’t know. My brain chemistry changed.
Sarah: Do you think that’s typical of 17-year-olds? Do you feel like most kids your age don’t want that much stuff?
Asa: Yeah. The thing is, I don’t really play with toys anymore. So when I was little, you can never have too many toys. You just get more and more and more, and they’re all good.
But now, thinking about it, the only thing I’m missing in my daily life is a backpack big enough to put all my stuff in. So that’s, like, the only thing I want. When I think about it—what would make my life better—the only thing I can think of is a bigger backpack.
Sarah: A bigger backpack. Okay.
Asa: Bigger backpack.
Sarah: I think Santa has gotten wind of that, so you don’t have too long to wait.
I feel like you’re sort of unusual for kids your age in terms of not being into brand-name stuff. Do you think that’s true?
Asa: Yeah. I would say that’s true.
Sarah: Why do you think that is?
Asa: When you get older, you value different things. Your values change. You don’t really care so much about accumulating plastic chachkes, and you’re more focused on just having a good time.
Sarah: I know you don’t want little toys from the dollar store or Lego kits anymore, but why don’t you want brand-name sneakers? You haven’t even gotten sneakers in, like, two years, right?
Asa: I’ve evolved past that.
Sarah: Okay, but what is it? I’m trying to say: I think you’re unusual for someone 17, in grade 12, who’s not like, “Oh, I need these sneakers and that expensive thing and the latest iPhone.”
I want to hear anything you think would be helpful for parents who want to make sure their kids don’t grow up greedy and materialistic.
Asa: They won’t. They won’t. Or maybe they will, but it doesn’t really—some people are like that and some people aren’t.
Everybody when they’re little wants Lego and wants to look in the Lego catalog. Whatever you do then is not gonna shape that. Maybe your kid will grow up and be greedy, but you telling them that they shouldn’t look at the Lego catalog isn’t gonna change that.
It’s not guaranteed everybody’s gonna grow out of it. Whatever you try and do isn’t gonna change that. It’s already kind of preset. Let the kids do whatever they want, and then maybe they’ll be greedy, maybe they won’t. But it won’t really have any effect on it.
Sarah: So you’re saying it’s other things—not what they want when they’re little—that decide how they turn out.
Asa: Yeah.
Sarah: I think it’s pretty normal for little kids to want lots of stuff. It’s hardwired, evolutionarily, for them to want stuff—because if they were just quiet and meek in a corner, everyone would forget about them.
Asa: Yeah.
Sarah: Do you remember when you started to feel grateful for your life?
Asa: I am grateful now, and I probably wasn’t when I was three. So somewhere along the line—maybe somewhere between three and 17—maybe five years ago. I don’t know. It’s sort of a gradual thing.
Sarah: Yeah, it’s hard to pinpoint.
You said that parents telling their kids not to want stuff isn’t going to make a difference. But do you think you internalized what was important in our family, and because Dad and I aren’t really into brand names and buying stuff, that’s how you developed too?
Asa: Yeah. I would say I cared about the stuff most when I was in grade six and seven, and I felt really weird telling you guys that I wanted shirts with company logos on them and stuff. It just felt out of place in our family.
Sarah: Why do you think it was grade six and seven that you wanted the most brand-name stuff?
Asa: Because brain development-wise, that’s when you want to fit in the most.
Sarah: That makes sense. And at a certain point, you just…
One of the things I admire about you is that you don’t care what other people think—in a good way. You have your own idea of what you like and what’s cool. But when you were little, what was the most important or meaningful thing about Christmas or birthdays?
Asa: I guess the anticipation. The anticipation of all of the presents and celebration and whatnot. When you actually get there, it’s like whatever, but it gives you something to look forward to leading up to it. That was probably the most important thing.
Sarah: The excitement of the possibilities of what you might get and do.
Asa: Yeah.
Sarah: What about now? Has anything changed?
Asa: Well, I used to have birthday parties when I was a little kid. I don’t really do that anymore, so birthdays definitely don’t feel as significant.
Christmas is kind of the same mold, but again, I’m not so much into, like, “Which Lego am I gonna get this year?” So I don’t know. I guess now I value the food and the family and everything else. So Christmas, beyond the presents.
Sarah: Nice. Well, thanks, Ace. Was there anything you think parents should know about this topic?
Asa: Make sure your kids are staying somewhat grounded to reality, but just relax too, because they’re little kids.
Sarah: Thanks, Ace. Bye.
Asa: No problem. Bye. Love you.
Sarah: Love you too.
Lee: Hello.
Sarah: Hi, Lee. Welcome to the podcast.
Lee: Thank you for having me.
Sarah: Can you introduce yourself?
Lee: Hi, I’m Lee, your oldest son.
Sarah: How old are you now?
Lee: 20.
Sarah: 20 and—
Lee: A half.
Sarah: 20 and a half. We missed your half-birthday this year.
And for anyone listening who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, I think this applies to birthdays or any other holidays where kids get presents. Looking back on your childhood, do you remember really wanting to get presents and lobbying to get presents when you were little?
Lee: Yeah, definitely. Next question.
Sarah: I asked your brother this—do you remember looking at the Lego catalog, the two of you pouring over it and circling everything you wanted?
Lee: Oh yeah, for sure. I think you and Dad tried to moderate that. I remember you talking to us about consumerism. I think I understood that stuff, but I still just wanted presents. I think that’s how it is for most kids.
Sarah: For sure. It really stressed Dad out. He was worried about all the wanting, like a lot of the parents who wrote with concerns about this.
But you’re a person now at 20 who I would say is pretty non-materialistic. When did you become aware of consumerism and materialism?
Lee: I think I was aware as long as I can remember. Definitely you taught me early, but I don’t think it sank in until I was a young teenager.
When was the first time I was like, “Oh, you don’t need to get me any presents”? I don’t know. By the way, you always still do, but I’m pretty sure I always tell you now that you don’t need to.
Sarah: Yeah. We get you presents because we want to get you presents, not because we feel like we have to.
Lee: But when I was a kid, I wasn’t like, “Oh, you don’t have to get me any presents.” I wanted presents very much.
Sarah: For sure. Do you ever remember—
Lee: I think it was enough times… Do you talk to your parents about the post-holiday letdown? We haven’t talked about that yet, but experiencing that enough made me feel like, “Okay, maybe presents are not the name of the game.”
Sarah: Say more about the post-holiday letdown.
Lee: Somewhere around 3:00 p.m. on Christmas, you’d be like, “Well, that was that. Back to my comfortable life, I guess.” But normal. You’d stop feeling excited and you’d feel like, “Was I really that excited?” Because once the suspense is gone—who said that? The anticipation is always better than the actual thing. Some philosopher said that.
Sarah: That’s so funny because that’s what your brother said. When I asked what he remembered most, he said: the anticipation.
Lee: Yeah, for sure.
Sarah: So what would you say to parents who are worried their kids always want more stuff? And even the post-holiday letdown can look like crying about not having more presents at three o’clock.
Lee: I would say it’s okay. The kids are victims of the mass media, but you’re probably already doing your best to counteract that, and just have faith. If you’re generally raising a conscientious kid, they’ll eventually probably come around.
How many adults do you know who are obsessed with presents?
Lee: Well… some are. Some people are very materialistic. But generally people grow out of it, I think.
Sarah: There are tons of people who get the new iPhone with every update, or who want the newest, fanciest thing and brand-name stuff.
Lee: Okay. I would say then: you guys really hammered it at home with me. And that’s probably why I think what I do now—“People, not stuff,” the old mantra.
Sarah: People, not stuff. That really was a mantra in your childhood, wasn’t it?
Lee: Yes, probably.
Sarah: And for anyone listening, don’t get me wrong—you guys got a lot of presents for Christmas.
Lee: Oh yeah.
Sarah: Not from us necessarily, because we didn’t have much money when you were growing up. Just a lot of grandparents. You guys have five sets of grandparents—ten grandparents—and then aunties and uncles and big family.
I wouldn’t say you were spoiled. Do you think you were spoiled?
Lee: I don’t know. Maybe. I think it’s less about having things and more about having a bad attitude than anything else.
Sarah: Yeah. I think spoiled is when parents can’t say no and they just give everything. You may have had grandparents who couldn’t say no and gave you everything.
Lee: Yeah, that makes sense.
Sarah: Looking back, what was really meaningful for you about Christmas or your birthday?
Lee: I couldn’t tell you what was really meaningful—just the thing itself. You’re very conditioned to be excited for those things when you’re young. Santa and presents.
Sarah: So what about now? What do you like about the holidays?
Lee: I don’t want to say I dislike them. I don’t ever decorate, and I play Christmas songs when I get paid too.
Sarah: You play them for free at our house.
Lee: Yeah. On your request. That’s true.
I don’t know. I’m pretty agnostic about it. I don’t mind it. I mind it in November when people get excited about it, but when it’s actually the season, it’s cool.
Same with my birthday. It’d be cool to do something, but it always ends up being pretty low-key. I don’t think that’s positive or negative—it varies from person to person.
Sarah: Is there anything you’re excited about with Christmas coming?
Lee: I guess it still feels nice—like the intentional family time. And the new Lego and—
Sarah: Sorry, spoiler: you’re not getting any Lego this year.
Lee: Okay. Family time, yeah. Seeing extended family. I don’t know if we’re going to this year. I think Christmas is cool.
Sarah: Do you remember making presents for your siblings when you were growing up?
Lee: I remember making Asa the piggy bank.
Sarah: Do you remember the sock monkeys you made them?
Lee: Oh, vaguely.
Sarah: Those were a lot of work.
Lee: Yeah, I forgot about that. I don’t remember if they liked them.
Sarah: They did. We still have them.
Lee: Yeah.
Sarah: Changing gears a bit—from holidays to consumerism in general—do you remember when you came home from Montessori and said you wanted some company—
Lee: Yeah, I know what you’re about to say. Company shirts?
Sarah: Yeah.
Lee: Okay.
Sarah: Do you remember why you wanted company shirts?
Lee: Because it was cool.
Sarah: We thought you meant shirts that said GAP on them or something. But when Dad took you shopping at a thrift store—
Lee: I just wanted shirts with pictures on them.
Sarah: Do you remember the trip?
Lee: Yeah. I remember getting a Superman button-up. I don’t remember the others.
Sarah: I think you got shirts that said T-Rex.
Lee: I couldn’t read, so I didn’t know what a company versus just a picture was.
Sarah: What do you think that did for you?
Lee: Made me cool. I have more friends. I’m joking.
I don’t know. I remember being happy to have a cool wardrobe. If you want to talk consumerism, I think I still like getting cool clothes. A lot of people do. Although I don’t go shopping that much.
I do tend to buy secondhand clothes, and that’s just a style question. I think that fateful shopping trip—we went to a Goodwill or something, right?
I remember going there as a child. And then I had one or two years in the beginning of high school where I wanted to get all my clothes from H&M, and then I just went back to Value Village after that.
Sarah: Yeah, I remember that. Rebellious years of going to the mall.
So another thing parents worry about is that their kids aren’t appreciative or grateful for everything they have in their life. And I personally think—of course they’re not.
Lee: Yeah. Of course they’re not. They’re little dummies.
Sarah: No. I don’t think they’re little dummies. I think they just don’t have anything to compare it to.
Lee: Yeah, for sure. That’ll come with time.
Sarah: Do you remember starting to feel appreciative and grateful for what you have?
Lee: Do I remember becoming conscious of it? It always was something you guys talked about. It slowly, very gradually became less abstract as I got more world experience.
I don’t totally remember what you said, but the message was: “You are fortunate.”
But I never thought, “I’m not grateful.” When you’re a kid, you just don’t understand much. How could you expect them to understand something as nuanced as gratitude? Or privilege.
Sarah: Yeah, privilege.
Lee: That’s what I’m talking about. It comes with time. You still have to make an effort to show them that, because I definitely know older people who don’t really get that. And if you don’t, you’re one of them.
Sarah: So it would be fair to say that the parents who are concerned about wanting their kids to be appreciative of their privilege, wanting their kids to be grateful, and not too consumerist—
Lee: You’re probably already doing fine. Exactly. Talk to them about it, and within a decade they’ll get it. And within a decade, they’ll become the preachy ones and you’ll get annoyed.
They’ll start lecturing you about capitalism, and you’ll be like, “Gosh darn it, what have I done?”
Maxine: I think that’s happened to us a few times.
Lee: All I was trying to say—I wasn’t trying to say don’t get your kids presents. I think I’ve been pretty clear. I never minded when you guys talked about privilege and stuff when I was a kid. Even if I did mind it, that would be more reason to reinforce those points.
I think the golden rule of parenting podcasts is: if you’re concerned about this stuff, you’re already probably doing pretty well. And if you don’t think about it, then your kid is the one that needs help.
Sarah: Yeah. In any case, those are not the people who are probably listening to this.
Lee: That’s the parenting podcast paradox.
Sarah: Okay, let’s close by saying—
Lee: You better leave that in.
Sarah: I’ll leave it in: “Parenting podcast paradox.” The Peaceful Parenting Podcast paradox—and add another P in there.
Okay. Well, thanks, Lee, for coming on the podcast.
Lee: Thanks for having me.
Sarah: Love you.
Lee: Happy holidays to all your listeners.
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