1 A**hole Can Make a Chud: Yukiwaru Tells All

Yukiwaru joins Based Camp after going viral for saying the quiet parts out loud: men can’t get periods, and tomboys are good.

In this conversation, Malcolm and Simone talk with the VTuber about why she refused to apologize or walk anything back, the toxic “friend”/artist who kept centering themselves and walking all over her boundaries (including on her birthday stream), and what it felt like to finally stop walking on eggshells.

They also cover:• How she started streaming (just a unique voice playing League) and became a snow-leopard VTuber• Losing old friends and artists vs. the new community that actually let her be herself• Desexualizing her model and why that grew her channel• Building an authentic audience instead of a flirty persona• Reaction content, cop slop, pony play, and streamers as the next wave of cultural influencers• Tomboy identity, the pressure to invent special labels, and why “just a straight white female” suddenly felt lame

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins [0:00]:Hello. I’m excited to be here with you today! Today, we have Yuki Waru with us who recently went viral. There’s been a few red videos on her because she made the bold claim that men cannot get periods and that tomboys are good. And anyone who knows our channel, we we are so pro tomboy on this channel that I actually had a fan email me a detailed list of bible quotes trying to argue that the bible says you should only take tomboys. And I was like, that is that is another degree. But what makes her so interesting and why I was excited to talk with you is you were before saying this, you never really got into politics that much on your channel. Uh, you never really got into, like, the this kind of, like, political spicy opinion. And something really unique happened because the Internet decided to go after you for these takes. And normally, the reaction historically of, like, a nonpolitical VTuber would have been to either apologize or at the very least, if they’re not going to apologize, not lean into it, not watch the rev review of her, not come on Basecamp or something like that. And yet you go in this other direction, and it seems to have worked out really well for you. But I’m wondering why you went in this direction. Like, would do you think that this is just like the ethos now, or is this an intentional decision you made or what?

Yukiwaru [1:29]:Well, for me, I mean, saying my thoughts and my point of view felt really freeing. And I feel like I’ve been walking on eggshells around people for so long worrying about everyone’s feelings, and, like, it’s been really, like, debilitating for me trying to just, you know, watch out for everyone’s feelings. And I was just like, you know what? I’m over it. And I said what I said. I I would I’m not gonna say something if I don’t mean it. And if I’m not gonna stand by it, that’s a waste of time and energy. I mean, why say something if you’re not gonna stick by it? I don’t see that point.

Malcolm Collins [2:07]:Well, a lot of oh, continue. Continue.

Yukiwaru [2:11]:Oh, I was just gonna say, I I don’t say something then back down. I’m gonna stick with it. I don’t care what people think, and I’m so sick of trying to, like, watch out for people. I mean, like, I respect people’s feelings, but, like, god, like, I have had to be so careful and, like, really think through what I say and, like, like, make sure I get, like, pronouns and stuff correctly because, you know, I I do respect how people feel and stuff, but it felt so good to let it out. Oh my god. No. It’s so so free.

Malcolm Collins [2:45]:It it really this is a pathway that I feel like has happened to a lot of people. So we my wife and I used to be, like, very mainstream leftist, and then we ended up going viral a number of times for talking about birth rate collapse. Just like fertility rates are really low. This is gonna affect social security systems. And we got absolutely piled on. The the the Internet decided that that meant that we were white supremacists or whatever or, like I I don’t know. Right? Um, and so, uh, what ended up changing our mind is, at first, we weren’t like you. We hedged all of our points. We were like, well, with this and keep in mind this and keep in mind this. But as time went on, we begin to notice that there was, like, this community of people who just, like, cared about what was true. And they were, like, shockingly nice to us, um, even when we had a lot of differences of opinions with them. And this feeling that you’re talking about of, like, oh my god. I can just say whatever I think now It’s such such a weird place that we were in a society where it was normal to not feel that way. I mean, I I did did did you find yourself, like, self censoring a lot before? Was it was it the being called out that put you in a position where you could talk about things more? Like, was it was that what made it possible for you?

Yukiwaru [4:16]:I did feel better really, you know, stating how I I’ve never really been one to censor. I’ve always been known for being, like, forward, bluntly honest, just saying how I feel. Because I I mean, personally, I don’t really understand other people’s feelings, like or empathy or compassion, you know. I just it doesn’t come natural to me. I think I felt empathy once in my entire life, and I didn’t understand what was happening. My dad, like, had to explain it to me like I was a kindergartner, learning how to feel and stuff. It was Oh.

Simone Collins [4:52]:It was

Yukiwaru [4:52]:a weird thing. But yeah. I mean, even now, I’m still kind of paranoid of my own pronouns. I I find myself referring to everyone as them, they just to be careful and cautious. It’s just in my head that I’m gonna say something and mess something up, and they’re gonna, like, come after me for it even if they are a friend or not.

Malcolm Collins [5:16]:Well, your story was really interesting because it started with like, it seemed like this really started with a specific toxic individual in your life. And they go on your birthday stream, and somebody accidentally misgenders them, and they decide to make the birthday stream all about themselves. Mhmm. And I also wanna note here before I go all trans people do that. Like, I know some totally normal, cool, based trans people, and they don’t do this s**t. When somebody accidentally misgenders them, they’re just like, whatever. Like, it’s just not even important. It’s not even in the room of of of issues. Yeah. And then there’s this, like, other group that uses it to try to center themselves and, like, move past other people’s consensual boundaries and recenter and the your emotions because I thought it was very interesting the way that you talked about it. You’re like, this made me feel really bad when that happened. And it wasn’t the first time when this individual had made you feel really bad in this way. There was you were talking all the way back to when you first got partnered with Twitch.

Yukiwaru [6:29]:Mhmm.

Malcolm Collins [6:30]:And they hadn’t gotten the partnership, and they made you feel bad about celebrating, which is probably one of the biggest events in your life. Mhmm. Getting just interested to hear your thoughts on all this from the from, like, experiencing it and and moving primarily because of, like, one other individual pushing you into saying this stuff. Mhmm.

Yukiwaru [6:57]:I became friends with them. They were they had more viewership than I did when we started becoming friends. And and at some time, I started surpassing them in viewership and growing more than they were. And, you know, at some point, they were viewer ing high where they could’ve gotten Twitch partner, but something happened where everything just dropped for them. And they they had been streaming longer than I have. So when I was, you know, growing more than them, I felt, like, guilty, like, because I felt, you know, they would always tell me how hard they’re trying and, like, mentally how they’re feeling. Like, they don’t understand. And, also, I understand that because even though I had Twitch partner, things dropped after my partner pushed. My views dropped, and I was like, alright. What am I doing wrong? What do I gotta change? But when I got the email for Twitch partner, was in a collab, and they were in my collab because, you know, I love including my friends. I love supporting my friends Yeah. Being there for them. And I got the email, and I started freaking out. And everyone in the collab was, like, so enthusiastic and so energetic and so celebratory. And then they came, and they’re like, what’s going on? And they’re like, oh my god. You just got Twitch burner. And they’re like, oh, good job. And I was like,

Malcolm Collins [8:21]:Can can you explain for our audience who might not understand the significance of getting partnered with Twitch what this means for you as a creator?

Yukiwaru [8:28]:I mean, besides having a really cool badge, not necessarily too much. It means that you were able to keep an average of a high viewership for a certain amount of time and complete the requirements.

Malcolm Collins [8:44]:Doesn’t it change, like, the monetization or, like, the way the pathways you have to contact them?

Yukiwaru [8:49]:From what I understand, when it comes to monetization, you do get more opportunities. But then it also you know, you have to do Twitch plus to get a bigger half of what you make on Twitch. If you don’t get Twitch plus, it really isn’t that much of a difference. And to get get Twitch plus, you have to hit goals of people subscribing and, like, gifting subs. Like, people need to spend money so you can get the different levels of Twitch plus to make more of the cut. So,

Simone Collins [9:22]:like Oh god.

Yukiwaru [9:23]:They changed it.

Malcolm Collins [9:24]:I also just had a realization. You’ve been streaming for three years. Right? Mhmm. So she’s the same age as our channel in terms of how long we’ve been streaming. Oh, wow. So finally, a co age channel. Usually, we’re talking with people Yeah. Doing it a lot longer than us. Because you said something that really got to me this. Like, when your numbers drop and, like, I talk with other creators about this, like, when I’m stressed cause my numbers are dropping and I don’t know why they’re dropping. Mhmm. And all they’re they all have such nerves of steel about it. They’re just like, oh, I don’t look at the numbers. I don’t care. I’m like, how do you not look at the numbers? This is how much the world loves me. Yeah. I have low numbers. The world doesn’t love me anymore. I’m saying something wrong.

Yukiwaru [10:11]:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do it because I’m like a very work driven, determined person, you know. When I hit a goal, I’m like, okay. I don’t really celebrate it. I go, alright. Onto the next goal. Let’s see how we can keep going, what we can do better. I’m very work driven. You know?

Malcolm Collins [10:28]:That that actually, I think, explains why the numbers going down hurt so much because in so many areas of life, you’re used to, like, you hit the goal. Now I’m going to my next goal.

Yukiwaru [10:38]:Mhmm. And then

Malcolm Collins [10:39]:you start moving down from the point you’re just at, which is so demoralizing.

Yukiwaru [10:44]:Oh my god. It’s the worst. It’s the worst.

Simone Collins [10:48]:Well, so in in despite enduring this, though, like, first, I I don’t we we only learned about you recently. We’re not that deep into the lore. What actually got you started streaming in the first place knowing? I’m I’m sure you knew, like, at least a little going in, like, this is actually a lot of work.

Malcolm Collins [11:03]:And and also had no idea how much work it was till I started doing the streams.

Simone Collins [11:07]:Was like And also, like, as a VTuber, because, like, I was playing out with Leaflet’s PNGTuber model, and I was trying to, like, get the rig to animate. And I was like, oh my god. Like, the amount of face work I have to do just to be like and like, I’m just it’s so much work. It’s so much more work. So why did you do why did you choose the hard way and then the double hard way? Like, why? What what what inspired this?

Yukiwaru [11:29]:I actually started off as a non VTuber. I actually started off with not even showing myself. It was just my voice, and I was just playing league. I was just doing it for, you know, fun. I didn’t think of it as anything. You know, someone said, you have a unique voice. You should do streaming. You’ll do really well. And I’m like, sure. Okay. I mean, most people think I sound like a child, but if that’s cool, why not? And honestly, most people think I use a voice changer. This isn’t my real voice. It’s it’s I mean, like, puberty just kinda skipped me. It was like, alright. You know what?

Simone Collins [12:05]:Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. What does it sound like if you try to do a low voice?

Yukiwaru [12:09]:Actually, my voice is a little hoarse right now because I have been talking so much.

Malcolm Collins [12:13]:Is your this is a low voice for her. Yeah. I I I know.

Simone Collins [12:17]:This this is your Elizabeth Holmes voice. This is you’re

Malcolm Collins [12:19]:going to see Talk about it.

Yukiwaru [12:20]:I don’t talk like you, Herbert. I mean,

Simone Collins [12:24]:the voice It’s voice. It’s a great voice.

Malcolm Collins [12:27]:For a moment in history. Like, you come in and in the moment of history where you can be an anime girl, and you happen to have anime girl voice.

Yukiwaru [12:35]:Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [12:37]:I would I I was talking with a a reporter recently, and I was like, it is really weird when I reflect on the number of my friends that are cartoon characters.

Yukiwaru [12:45]:It’s so fun. You get to, like, this the design a character based off, like, who you feel, like, feel you are off your personality because there I can’t I’m not looking like this in real life. Are you kidding me? No. I feel like this represents me and my personality, and also snow leopards are my favorite animal. So, you know, it’s just so fun.

Malcolm Collins [13:06]:But I Snow

Simone Collins [13:07]:leopards are amazing.

Malcolm Collins [13:08]:Yeah. They’re they’re very cute animals. Uh, this might be a transitional phase where, um, if you look at, like, where AR glasses are going, where AI is going, uh, I would not be surprised that if when my kids are my age, a lot of people just choose primarily to interact with other people through avatars.

Simone Collins [13:28]:Oh, they’ll just, like, put a filter on everyone in their life?

Malcolm Collins [13:32]:Yeah. Because why wouldn’t you if you could? And that gets really interesting with a lot of this other stuff because I don’t have a problem with that world when it comes. I think that’s gonna be really cool. And in that world, the idea of choosing your identity is going to mean something very different, which is interesting. I don’t I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that. Or, like, do you think that that’s going to happen?

Yukiwaru [13:59]:I really don’t have any thoughts when it comes to the future. I mean, I I’m a very anxious person, so I I spend most of the time thinking about, you know, if I’m gonna eat later or, you know, just really, like, silly stuff like that or, you know, what’s the weather? Because weather freaks me out too. But I’m I’m a bit of a airhead. I don’t necessarily understand politics or more serious conversations. Even if I try, I don’t understand. So I try not to think about it.

Malcolm Collins [14:32]:Your your video on this was very well argued and tactfully argued as well. I mean, I I I appreciate the humility, uh, but I think that there’s a reason why it’s gone viral and received such a positive reception. Uh, and one of the things that I wanna, like, really lean into in terms of a positive reception is when we see somebody being attacked for saying what is clearly saying stuff, bringing them into, like, the wider cultural community, you know, you’re not the only person we do interviews like this with, I think is really valuable because then they can feel safe saying what they want to say and knowing that this community is not a community that’s going to, like, care or judge or be overly aggressive about many of the areas where they might assume that. Right? Like, you started I think when you started v tubing, you were looking at doing it from, like, a lube tubing perspective. Right?

Yukiwaru [15:26]:I did dabble in that department. Yes.

Malcolm Collins [15:30]:Yeah. And then you you went, no. I’m I I I don’t enjoy this. Right? Like, this has been a good way to live. And we also I mean, if you look at, like, the other people we interview in our community like Nux, Nux used to do hentai reviews. We we run a not safe for work website. Right? Like, it’s it’s a lot of these things that I feel would, like, have people attacked within what I thought the right wing community was. And then I enter it, and they don’t didn’t care. They’re just like, oh, if you agree with us on any point, we take you on every point. Right? Like, you’re just whatever. It’s very, uh, which was my motivation for reaching out to you to be like, hey. Come on. Like, let’s be friends in this wider network. Have you gotten that from other people? Have, like, other people been reaching out to you or Oh

Yukiwaru [16:17]:my god. So many people have been reaching out. So many. You know? I lost a lot of people I thought were friends. Um, I lost a bunch of artists that I worked with. Yep. But, honestly, it’s like, I didn’t really get too sad about it because I’m like, if they’re gonna leave me over me having this kind of opinion, that’s fine. I don’t need them in my life. Why would I want people like that in my life? If we can’t be friends and have disagreements, what are what are we doing? We don’t have to agree on everything. And then artists reached out. Merch companies reached out. I mean, I I made new friends like Nines and Leaflet. I’ve talked to Powder. Banana Juju, I did a collab with. Awesome. I’ve made I mean,

Malcolm Collins [17:06]:honestly banana Juju yet.

Yukiwaru [17:08]:So sweet. So sweet.

Malcolm Collins [17:10]:I wanna get around.

Yukiwaru [17:11]:Yeah. Yeah. Continue. It is crazy though that, you know, you think the other side’s all about acceptance and, you know, bringing you in and be who you wanna be and think what you wanna think. But when you have a different opinion from theirs, they’re like, nope. Get out of here, you terrible, terrible person. And then the other side is like, that’s okay. We’ll take you in.

Malcolm Collins [17:34]:What by the way, the the waifowears collab that dropped you Mhmm. I I went to their website to try to figure out what they do because, like, I’ve decided to, with our company, just clone any product that drops somebody, but I couldn’t even figure out what they do. Like, what was it what were they trying to promote?

Yukiwaru [17:51]:Um, well, they make shaker cups, and they put, like, VTuber art on it. Just like, you know, the the cups you wouldn’t make like protein shakes in, then you just shake it and then they slap VTuber art on it. I actually had just done my first drop with them where I sold out on all my cups. You only need 20 to start production, but I sold out all the cups in like a couple weeks.

Simone Collins [18:15]:That’s impressive.

Malcolm Collins [18:16]:Yeah. Weird is like you’re making them money.

Yukiwaru [18:19]:Oh, yeah. And they take a good chunk of it.

Malcolm Collins [18:22]:Who instigated you down this sort of pathway, you were 90% of their income at one point. Right?

Yukiwaru [18:28]:Uh, my artist? Yes. And I mean, I can say that because they literally admitted it to me in like DMs, which I’m not gonna post publicly because I’m not that kind of person. But, you know, I’ll say some things from the DMs here and there.

Malcolm Collins [18:41]:No. It’s it’s it’s one of the most interesting things about your personal story in regards to all of this is you coming out and finally talking about your opinions on this stuff seem primarily motivated by just one bad actor that nobody thought to rein in. And I I I wonder, like, how how many people end up having these revelations or these moments because of just one bad actor? Like, how much one individual can matter in the wider political sphere?

Yukiwaru [19:18]:I mean, with this person, the person who made my model, the person who would get mad at you if you got their pronouns wrong, I was recently after interactions they’ve had with good friends of mine, like the one they got mad at during my birthday stream, really good friend of mine. He and I are very similar in how we think, and I feel safe, you know, really sharing how I feel with him. I was just thinking. I was like, what is bonding me to this person besides the connection of them doing art for me? What is what’s why why do we have a friendship? Because even when we hung out, just the two of us watching the show or just, you know, doing stuff in our free time, I still always felt like I couldn’t be my real self. Like, I I still had to walk on those eggshells. Like, I had to be careful of what I said. And I felt like in a way they also thought, you know, I’m I I really am not the smartest, the sharpest tool in the shed as the saying goes. I’m not. And I I admit that. I’m fine with that. Like, I I still get through my day somehow. It’s a miracle.

Simone Collins [20:25]:I relate, man.

Yukiwaru [20:27]:I I always felt that they thought they were better than me in some way. Like, they they can learn things quickly. They can pick things up quickly. They can understand things that I really don’t even care to understand. And I always feel like in a way, they tried to make me feel less than them because they would, you know, refer to me as their daughter, their child. And, you know, when the retuber world, you usually refer to your artist as your your your mama and your rigger as your daddy, but I couldn’t because they were non binary. So I referred to them as my parent Mhmm. Out of respect for them. And then the the way they talked to me, was always like, oh, sweetie. Like, oh, my sweet dear child. Like, kind of what’s the word? The meaning? Condescension.

Malcolm Collins [21:13]:Yeah. That. Yeah. Yeah. Condescension. No. I I think you are pulling on a really important thread here, and it’s something that I’ve highlighted before. And I think it’s an interesting cultural sort of norm that’s developed in this wider community, which is the people who are at the top of the, like, nerd right online community, like your Asmagold type people, sort of have a personality defined by not thinking they’re better than other people and and not trying to act as if they’re better than other people. And our community more broadly seems to have a very hair trigger about anybody trying to status signal, like, I’m a higher status person than you are. And hanging out in this community and not having to deal with that recently, I went to Stanford Business School, and so I was back and I did a a podcast with one of my, uh, classmates who’s still very much in that, like, I don’t know what you wanna call it, like, urban elite mindset. Right? Like, you know, everything that, how could you say this? How could you say that? Like aghast. Like, going through my title cards and being like, do you stand for this? And I was like, they’re meant to shock people. What are you talking about? And and it felt so icky, and I and I realized it’s been so long since I had somebody pull that on me. And it’s it’s it’s felt so good to be hanging out with people like Leaf who like

Simone Collins [22:42]:Well, it’s pull. I think it’s a a bureaucratically influenced school marvel culture where, like, we’re we’ve been used to it since we were in school with just this, like, oh, you have no idea. You’re just ignorant. We need to educate you. And I think it’s a very it’s a very pervasive, like, urban elite ish. And and this doesn’t matter, like, how much money or education you were you have. It depends on what culture you adopt where you just, like you condescend and patronize those who are just too ignorant to know how to say the right thing. But then weirdly are suddenly savage to them when they when they mess up in just the wrong way. So unless you’re patronizing and it worse to then you, like, tried to destroy their entire lives and careers. So Well, they’re using

Malcolm Collins [23:23]:you to masturbate their emotional states. Like, I I I like what someone’s saying here. Like, this isn’t somebody who sees you as a friend, but it’s like a masturbation tool for validation.

Simone Collins [23:35]:Hold on. That’s like what most I mean, we we argue that there are only three types of friendships. One is is basically convenience friendships. Like, it’s the person you went to school with or you’re in class. Like, you’re you’re proximal to each other, so you’re friends. The other is utility friends. So you’re friends with them because, you know, if your kids, like, they have the best video games. So you need to be friends with them to get access to the gaming console or, you know, they have money or whatever. And then the or, like, they’re a girl and, know, you want, you know, you you want what you want from them. But then the third is character reinforcing friends, where you you have, like, a token friend because they’re the extra or the supporting character that you need on your life stage. And that’s that’s what Malcolm’s trying to describe here. But I think that that’s that’s not like a that’s not a political thing. I think that’s just a human thing. It just happened to be that the the supporting characters in the life of a very predominant culture happen to be, like, very exploited and mistreated characters. Whereas, I guess, like, in the default tropes of more conservative or centrist or libertarian cultures, like, the supporting characters have a little bit more, like, respect given to them. They’re not like stooges and, you know, idiots and people that they don’t actually Mhmm. Like or respect, which is yeah. I think you really touched on something interesting when you talked about how how stressful it can be to be in some of these circles when you’re, like, always afraid of being in trouble. But do you have, like, larger overarching goals with the streaming that you do or with the way or, like, also, has what you experienced recently changed what you think you’re gonna be focusing on with your streaming and with what you talk about? Or Or are you just gonna kinda keep doing what you do, but now feeling like you can talk more freely?

Yukiwaru [25:19]:I’m gonna keep doing what I do and feel like I can talk more freely. And if, you know, I I make it known you don’t have to agree with my opinion. It doesn’t mean you can’t be a part of my community. Just be respectful and follow the rules. But I have been doing more chatting and interacting with my community because I have that ability now where, you know, there are more people, more people to interact with, and we do like reactions to videos, which I have so much fun with. I’ve been having more fun with streaming lately than I have in a really long time. I used to do just, like, gaming because I really never had anything to talk about. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [25:59]:Well so I’ve been doing I I every other week for a while, right now we’re on hiatus, I would do, like, a ten hour stream with Leaflet. And I hadn’t realized what a unique experience it is to, with a chat for an extended period of times, give your true opinions of, like, the world. And I can’t even explain to people what it’s like because it it’s such a marathon. Like, the the the closest thing I can say is it’s like a but, yeah, it’s it’s a completely different way of interacting with reality.

Yukiwaru [26:30]:Mhmm. It’s so fun.

Malcolm Collins [26:33]:Also, to the the like, one of the things I often say on on on stream when we talk about, like, the diversity of opinions within our wider community and I really want to emphasize for you, like, as you enter this wider sort of friend network or whatever, they, like, really do tolerate, like, any opinion as long as it seems like you’re trying to get to the truth. And the example I always use of this is, like, commie mommy Shu On Head. Like, Shu On Head is obviously adored by everyone in the community and, like, is an actual socialist, and we just don’t even care. We’re like, she seems to wanna get at what’s true.

Yukiwaru [27:06]:Mhmm.

Malcolm Collins [27:07]:And so don’t worry about that. Don’t worry about, like, oh, now I’m part of this group. Like, I have to have this set of opinions. I I hope you don’t feel that way.

Yukiwaru [27:16]:No. I I’m not changing anything for anyone. Whether you can watch me. You don’t have to watch me. I’m not changing for anyone. I’m not putting on a persona. I’m me. Doing anything else is exhausting.

Malcolm Collins [27:31]:The other thing I wanted to talk about that I thought was really fun well and and you talk about it being exhausting. I’ve heard other people say this is, like, this idea that, like, any VTuber is putting on a voice or a personality is actually very unlikely because it’s incredibly exhausting to do that for a long period of time. Like, doing a voice for ten hours is just not really realistic. No.

Yukiwaru [27:53]:No. No. It is very exhausting, especially to keep up with it for your community who thinks that you’re that person. Like, faking someone you’re not or putting on a persona, you know, I respect those who can do it, I can’t. I don’t have the energy. I work a full time job too. I I don’t got that energy.

Malcolm Collins [28:12]:Oh my god. Well, it’s funny that you mentioned that. So we have some friends who are, like, celebrities. And the one thing I’ve noticed between my friends who are celebrities who absolutely love their fans and my friends who are celebrities who have a very antagonistic relationship with their fans, and they kind of, like, don’t like their fan base at all, it’s is the image that they’re showing the world who they really are? And if they’re showing the world a fake image, uh, the type of celebrity or fame that they gain ends up creating an intense animosity with their fan base, which is a really sad way to live kind of. To be like, oh, you got everything you ever wanted. Now you’re a super star, but you It’s

Simone Collins [28:49]:really stressful.

Malcolm Collins [28:50]:Yeah. You can’t enjoy it. Yeah. When

Yukiwaru [28:54]:when people were in my chat trying to get me to, like like, the I I you know, AI, I’m cool with it. You know, AI is cool. Has cool functions.

Simone Collins [29:05]:Yeah.

Yukiwaru [29:05]:Also respect artists. Yeah. I love artists. I’m, like, in the middle with most things.

Simone Collins [29:11]:But you have to pick a side now.

Yukiwaru [29:13]:Yeah. Yeah. But but I’m getting a new model because, you know, with this one, I had design restraints because they really we went with more their opinion than most of mine. Anyway

Malcolm Collins [29:26]:I actually wanna talk about that, but

Simone Collins [29:27]:I’m finish what you’re saying now.

Yukiwaru [29:29]:Of the next artist that I really wanna work with, they’re not so into putting their art through AI, which I totally understand and respect. So I made an announcement to my community that with my new model, I would appreciate not putting it through but I will give them an option of my model that they can use with AI that isn’t using the artist art. And so many people were like, oh my god, this trash tuber is like backing up on her word. She’s fake. She’s she’s, like, not who she says she is. No. People can change their mind, and people can change their mind out of respect for other people. It doesn’t mean you’re fake. It means you’re human.

Malcolm Collins [30:14]:Absolutely. Right? I I I I I really hate the people who take pride in having had the same opinion for x many years. Like, I’ve changed my mind on, well, virtually everything because you you get new information and you change your mind. Yeah. But I wanted to talk about your model because I found it to be an interesting story. This where you started was a very sexualized model, and you’ve increasingly moved to a more and more desexualized younger model. Mhmm. And, originally, the the r the rigor who caused all of this drama was, like, really giving you shade because the the they’re like, oh, you know, you must be a I don’t know. Like, PDA file type stuff. And then your younger model gets super successful, and then they move to a model that’s younger than your model. Yeah.

Yukiwaru [31:04]:Yeah. Yeah. They made a smaller model after I made, like, a smaller model. They made theirs smaller and, like, cutesier. And I just think the smaller model for me just fits my personality and my vibe so well, and I feel comfortable with it. I want people to watch me because they find me funny and entertaining, not because they wanna date me or, you know, do stuff with me. Although you can’t prevent that. That’s gonna happen regardless. So you know, I accept But I want people to watch me because they enjoy watching me. They find me funny. They like my content. That’s what I want the main reason to be. And I feel like it just expresses who I am so much better. And I I just love the style. I just love it. Simple. Yep. I love it.

Malcolm Collins [31:52]:No. It it is it is also something that I have always found very weird when people are like this Lolly style is what children look like. And it’s like, I have children. It looks nothing like a child.

Simone Collins [32:02]:It really doesn’t look like a child.

Malcolm Collins [32:04]:Yeah. Completely unique, artistic style. And it’s something that didn’t really hit me until, like, I had kids, and I saw them every day, and I still watch anime. And I was like, this in no way is evocative of this other thing. It’s it’s a unique artistic medium that is pleasant to look at. And when people say it’s like, oh, that must mean you wanna sleep with our dates. What are you talking about, you weirdo? People self report so hard.

Yukiwaru [32:35]:Yeah. Yeah. It’s just it’s just like a style of art, like chibi or, like, cartoon. It’s just like another style of art. That’s really what it is. And but, of course, there are gonna be people who take it to a whole different direction. They’ll do that with just, anything in the world. It doesn’t matter what it is. There are those people out there.

Malcolm Collins [32:54]:Well, it’s it’s not just another it’s a style that I I think Chibi also falls into this category that is generally or at least the direction that you take it that is an ultra desexualized style. Mhmm. Um, you don’t have the boob physics or anything like that. Boob physics. But Yeah. You also grew as a channel more as you further desexualized.

Yukiwaru [33:16]:Mhmm. I felt like more comfortable to be myself when I didn’t feel like people were just watching the the boob of physics move up and down or whatever, you know, think thoughts. I thought they were watching me. I I felt more comfortable when I, you know, think of them of watching me for me because they enjoy me. And when people came in my community who have like significant others and partners, it made me feel even better. I’m like, oh my god. Like, girls are watching me. Couples are watching me. Like, that’s so great. I’m so happy, and they feel safe in this space to just, you know, relax and have fun.

Malcolm Collins [33:56]:Yeah. What I mean, you’re gremlin sort of at the the I I don’t know. Your persona works very well with a model like this, but also doesn’t invite I I I I think it naturally invites, like, wanting to tease you or something, not, like, wanting to flirt with you or something. Right? Yeah. It’s it’s that’s not the relationship you have with your audience.

Yukiwaru [34:19]:Yeah. And even if I do like flirty stuff with them, they’re all like I mean, are some people who are like, yep. Alright. Yep. I’m in. And then both but the majority are like, nope. Stop. This is cringe. Please stop. It’s it’s just so funny, the mixed feelings. And I, you know, I’m just an unhinged person. I like say what pops in my head, I do what I want. So having the community that’s like cool with that to let me just be me and like do that. I it’s just so fun. Not, you know, worrying about, oh, I can’t be flirty because I have like this kind of model or I can’t say this or do that.

Malcolm Collins [34:54]:Well, how is how actually, that’s a very interesting question. How have sort of the the ways that you interact with your audience evolved as time has gone on? Like, what have you learned about building, interacting with an audience over these past three years?

Yukiwaru [35:08]:When I first started streaming, especially as a VTuber model, my first VTuber model was a two tailed fox and very big chest, very physics like that, very tight clothing, very girly girl clothing as well because I thought that’s what would drive people in. Um, and I built something that wasn’t me. I was very flirty. I was very kind. I was very nice. I’m not I I’m not like that really. I’m nice. I’m respectful. But like, I’m not gonna tell my chat like, my god, love you guys. Thank you so much. Or That’s nice. You know, call them cuties or whatever. No. I call them like weirdos and heathens and like like call them the worst things and it’s just so much more fun. And I just learned over time, I don’t wanna build a community on me not being me. I wanna build a community on me. So those who come and stay, that’s cool. But I want it to be when I’m being me and nothing else. And I’m just you know, over the years, through different models and learning new things, I’m finally kinda you know, I’m finding my groove and my place and, um, what I’m comfortable but with and what I want.

Malcolm Collins [36:25]:That’s fascinating. Um, I mean, that’s, uh, we I don’t what has our experience been? It hasn’t really been like that. Like, in terms of how we’ve developed, a lot of it’s been more technical differences. Like, focusing on the first minute, but we’re primarily YouTubers, and you’re primarily a streamer. So it’s a completely different sort of environment in terms of how you interact with people, how you handle chat, everything like that. Uh, but it does make sense. Also, your beginning, like, going on, like, what are people going to like is different from the beginnings of a lot of other VTubers. We were my wife and I were talking this morning, uh, about the various VTubers that we have interviewed recently. And, like, the starting story for so many of them was I was about to unalive myself. I had just been fired from my job. I had just, like, they’re at, like, their lowest point in life. And then they decide to just start putting content out there. And I I was like, our story is so different. I wanted to be famous. That’s literally

Yukiwaru [37:31]:Yeah. I don’t damn. My story isn’t like that.

Malcolm Collins [37:35]:Their story, the lady, you’re like, I know. I I wanna do something that works. That’s fun.

Yukiwaru [37:40]:You know, the more I got into it, the more I was like, I wanna build a community because I know what it’s like to feel alone or, like, you don’t belong or, like, you can’t have you can’t find your people. You know? It’s similar to those stories of why some VeepTubers start. I don’t want people to fall into that place. I wanna have a place for them to make friends, to make connections, to find people to game with, and to just relax and escape the the world we live in. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [38:09]:Well, I I I yeah. I can I I can building community is obviously like a well and I think having other streamers on this, one of the reasons we have you in, is have a shared cinematic universe for people where they’re like, oh, all of my friends, like, they’re actually they actually know each other as the community expands? What was the what was the question I was gonna ask? It’s funny. You feel free to free go while I try to think of Yeah.

Simone Collins [38:34]:What I’m trying to what I’m and then I’m always curious about this with any streamer because I my big theory is that streamers are the next sort of generation of major political influencers to shape how people view the world because and it’s just it’s it’s an it’s a timing and algorithm thing. To be successful as a streamer, you have to stream for a lot. And to get enough time, you can’t, like, just game. At this point, you kind of have to, like, do reaction videos. So then you’re going over comment your content, but then you’re commenting on it. And so you’re annotating it. You become a political commentator because in the end, so much of the content out there is political. There’s something like sort of one global story, and it’s like kind of whatever is happening in the news or with, like, police or immigration or or tech. Um, and so in the end, you end up being disproportionately influential because then you have all these clips that end up on YouTube because you just have so much more content, and it’s constantly coming out. So when people are looking up commentary on news events, they get streamer content. This makes me think like, oh my gosh. Like, the weight of being a streamer is pretty big if you think about the downstream consequences because what you choose to watch and how you react to it is shaping how a large number of people are coming to view reality in politics, and it’s gonna influence their votes and influence everything else that they do. Does this like, I mean, that’s why what I so this is all to say I’m really interested in in understanding how you choose what you’re gonna watch. Do people send you links of, like, I think you should watch this on stream. Do you, like, have some feed that you check every day where you’re like, okay. This looks like it’ll be good. This looks like it’ll be good. How do you choose what it is you’re gonna do when you do reaction content?

Yukiwaru [40:07]:Well, I’m I you know, I’m on, like, maybe week two of doing reaction content. Uh, I started off with just, you know, I made a channel in my Discord where people can post stuff. But a lot of the stuff they posted, I did not enjoy or find funny or understand. So stepped away from it a little. And then I reacted to Rev reacting to me because, you know, I I let this situation kinda take control for a little, and I I watched it. I didn’t say anything. And then I felt, you know, where it was going. I was comfortable speaking again about it. I’m not one who really gets into drama that much. I mean, I’m not gonna say I don’t like it. It’s kinda fun to start it or watch it or be a part of it, but I try not to. You know, my dad’s always like, take the high road, be the it all, be the good person, But that’s not always the fun road. Anyway, I was just choosing things that I thought were funny like my strange addictions or, you know, someone doing pony play that I thought was funny.

Malcolm Collins [41:16]:Pony play is so interesting. Hold on. Can we take it aside and talk about pony play? Like

Simone Collins [41:22]:Oh, god.

Malcolm Collins [41:23]:What do you think gets you to, like, have the idea of, like, this is something I wanna try doing? It seems really expensive to, like, invest in even trying it.

Yukiwaru [41:34]:I mean, it is the same with v tubing. It’s But, you know, they were like, it it stems from my childhood. Like, a sense of freedom from my child. I feel like most things. The the thing is it comes from my childhood or trauma I experienced or something I did. And, you know, now I’m an adult, and I have adult money, and I can do what I want.

Malcolm Collins [41:58]:So now I dress up for people who aren’t aware sorry. I I I just realized we have, like, normal Christian moms watching right now. So there are these people who like to dress like ponies in, like, leather gear. So it’s like a pony fied leather outfit. Mhmm. And they, like, walk around on their hands and knees, and they have, like, a a master who’s, like, their their trainer or whatever. And they’ll go to gatherings where, like, multiple of these people will, like, do tricks or, like, go around in, like, circles and stuff like this.

Simone Collins [42:26]:It’s similar with puppy play, which also has, like, like

Malcolm Collins [42:29]:my theory on what leads to this stuff is and I’m glad that we have a woman of culture here who knew exactly the topics that would interest me. The the the the that I stopped at the video and put it I’m like, I wanna know more about this. Well, why the heck? Because, you know, I don’t to explain to you why I find this stuff so interesting is if you see an unusual behavior and you see it in multiple people, it’s generally worth asking why. Because that means either there’s something culturally going on or something evolutionarily going on or something psychologically going on that doesn’t fit your standard model of how humans interact. And my guess is pony play and pet play, the the second one you’re talking about, comes from people wanting a DOM like partner, but they want that DOM to be caring of them and to care about their well-being like a nice DOM. Um, and they don’t really have many other social context for what it feels like to have, like, ownership of a thing, but still be nice to it other than like that. Sad.

Yukiwaru [43:34]:Makes sense. Yeah. But at the same time, you know, live your best life, but maybe don’t bring it publicly. Not everyone wants to be a part of, you know, that part of your life. I mean, the the the video we watched, the the person went to go, you know, show their, like, ants or whatever, who they truly are, and they, like, went in, like, full attire with their, like, trotting, and then did showed them different forms of trotting and galloping and oh my god. The the the axe.

Simone Collins [44:04]:Oh, I bet they, like, worked pretty I I could not gallop on my knees. That They’re not on

Yukiwaru [44:09]:their knees. They they they stood on their two feet in the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins [44:13]:And that was It’s even more ridiculous than you think, Simone.

Yukiwaru [44:16]:Yeah. There was a heart like horse stores and bought actual, like, authentic horse gear, and they’re like, I need, like, you know, what the horse puts in their mouth to, like, when people ride them or whatever. They’re like, I’m looking for them and they’re like, what size? And they like hold up to their mouth. They’re like, oh, about this this size. And the lady looks at her like, oh, okay.

Simone Collins [44:39]:They’ve gotta be used to it by now, honestly. Well, think about it this I mean, Hermes was originally for equestrians. So, like, maybe if you’re really into that kind of, like, good construction and you’re like, look, let horses get it now.

Malcolm Collins [44:52]:Like, people have been turned on by all sorts of weird stuff throughout the ages, but, like, the weird thing is beginning to identify with it. Right? Like, beginning to think, no. This is a meaningful and important part of how I need other people to see me. And I feel like this is partially culturally downstream of people feeling ashamed of, uh, identifying with, like, their culture or their religion because people will be like, oh, you’re you’re proud to be an American or whatever. You shouldn’t. That’s a that’s a bad thing to be. Right? Like, that’s racist or something. And so because you can’t be proud of anything, you need to come up with new things to be proud of. And if you’re not lucky enough to be, like, gay or something, then you have to, like, make up some new identity for yourself.

Yukiwaru [45:36]:Yeah. That makes sense. It’s like at some point being, like, a straight white female was, like, lame and boring. I was like, uh, people ask me, like, what I am. I’m like, I’m just just straight white female. I’m nothing. I’m boring. I’m lame. Like, you know, they have all these colorful flags and stuff, and then there’s ours that’s like nonexistent or like black and white or just like not fun. Because apparently, being just, you know, straight is just not cool anymore.

Malcolm Collins [46:02]:Well, I mean, it’s it’s true. But I will say, you talk about growing up as a tomboy. Do you still identify as, like, a tomboy? Like

Yukiwaru [46:12]:I’m not a girl who likes to wear, like, frilly things and skirts and get dressed up. I mean, I went through a phase where I was like super into makeup because it was fun, but like, I I I walk dogs for a living. So anyway, regardless, I’m always in active wear, and it’s just because it’s so comfortable. It’s one of my favorite things. I’m not someone who wants to get dressed up. I I, you know, I am more a bit of a tomboy. I don’t like jewelry. I’ve never really liked that stuff. I don’t get my nails painted. I bite my nails. Like, I’ve always been someone who can get down and dirty and, you know, be one of I’ve always been one of the guys. I’ve always fit in with guys better than girls. Always.

Malcolm Collins [46:55]:Yeah. The the reason I I elevate this point is because within the column of straight white female, there’s a bunch of ways that are totally unique and are, you know, perception, like Tomboy being one of them, of being a straight white female. But they don’t count to people because they’re just under straight white female. So so they don’t count as, like, a meaningful way of presenting yourself or anything like that until you label them something. Like, I’m actually exsexual or something. And then you can have all this pride in that, and you can have flags around it, and you can have when a lot of these people who identify this stuff, I doubt they’re really that different from you in terms of how they feel.

Yukiwaru [47:41]:Mhmm. I’ve gone through phases where I thought maybe I was asexual, but it turns out, you know, I was just, like, recovering from, like, my own real stuff going on and really focusing on my recovery that I didn’t really think of anything else. I wasn’t asexual. But because of everything going on, I thought, you know, maybe I was or, you know, maybe I was biased. Someone like tried to brainwash me to make me think that I like, you know, I was bisexual, which I’m not. Nothing wrong with it, but I’m not. You know? I I’m I’m happily straight. Happily.

Malcolm Collins [48:14]:Yeah. My my wife, by the way, is is fairly close to asexual, which is which is interesting because if you if you put us in the labeling category, asexual is a type of genderqueer. And if you’re genderqueer, you’re technically in the trans community. So my wife is technically in the trans community if you go. It’s all there.

Yukiwaru [48:33]:Yay. Oh, there you go. Congratulations.

Simone Collins [48:34]:You’re cool. Yeah. Finally.

Malcolm Collins [48:36]:Cool. Cool.

Simone Collins [48:37]:I think I have a flag, So that’s good. Yeah.

Yukiwaru [48:40]:Yeah. You’re one of two people.

Malcolm Collins [48:41]:Like street flag.

Simone Collins [48:42]:Where’s the street flag?

Malcolm Collins [48:44]:But I wanted to talk about other other video categories that you’ve enjoyed that your audience has recommended for you. Mhmm. Like, what are you watching these days?

Yukiwaru [48:53]:Uh, they love cop slop, which I also enjoy. So funny.

Malcolm Collins [48:58]:That fun.

Yukiwaru [48:58]:So funny. Oh my god. These people are ridiculous. It hurts. It hurts that they exist in the world and that they’re, like, legal adults that can, like, do stuff. What was

Malcolm Collins [49:09]:It’s fun that cop slop is coming back. When I was a kid, cop slop was very common. Um, there was these shows called, like what were the shows called, Simone? I know Simone.

Simone Collins [49:20]:Cops. It’s called cops.

Malcolm Collins [49:22]:Cops. Oh, yes. Cops. And they played constantly, and it was just like an equivalent of cop slop today. Um, but now you you have the streamers covering it where you get to see somebody else being like, we can all agree this is ridiculous. Right? You know? Which you couldn’t do in those old ‘90 shows, but there was, like, this period where there wasn’t any cop slop. And then thank god for body cams. Right? Nothing is made up for sex.

Yukiwaru [49:48]:Hard with what they go through. They’re not perfect, but, oh my god, from the videos that you watch? Oh, good lord.

Simone Collins [49:56]:No. They always make their jobs.

Malcolm Collins [49:58]:Respect cops so much more to be like, oh my god. What a king and honestly honestly, the job that they do, especially combined with the lack of respect they were getting for it for a long time, it’s just us I could not deal with these people.

Yukiwaru [50:15]:The patience they have. Yes. Yeah. They could never. They could never.

Malcolm Collins [50:20]:The the one that I saw recently that was just, like, wild. Did you see the one where the lady grabs the cop’s gun in its holster and shoots it?

Yukiwaru [50:28]:No. I’m just getting into it. But I don’t wanna overdo it too fast. You know, the last night we were watching like Chris Hansen.

Simone Collins [50:37]:Oh, beautiful. The classics. The classics.

Yukiwaru [50:39]:The classics. Pizza over, and he was eating while he was like getting it was so funny.

Malcolm Collins [50:45]:Oh, you know what could actually be pretty fun to react to? And I haven’t seen anyone do it. What? Is old, like, best of, like, Mari. You know, like, the do you even know what Mari is? It might be before your time. So there used to be these shows.

Simone Collins [51:03]:Jerry Springer was the most the most recent.

Yukiwaru [51:05]:Yeah. Yeah. I know him.

Simone Collins [51:07]:Jerry Springer That whole, like, genre.

Malcolm Collins [51:09]:I I thought Mari was better than Jerry Springer. He got trashier. Yes. Oh. Where they would find people who just were, like, in some way completely f*****g degen whatever. And then they’d have them on show, and they’d, like, talk them through it. And my favorite was the teenage girl who was desperate to get pregnant. She was, like, 14, and she has the line, like, it’s it’s my hot body. I do what I want with it. And she’d be like

Speaker 7 [51:37]:My name is Victoria, and I’m 15 years old. And I don’t care what my mama says, I’m gonna have a baby. I will do whatever it takes to take care of my baby. If it has to come out of process to my body, then so be it. I’m gonna adjust my baby in all brand names. And if I can’t support it, then I guess I’m gonna steal it. I’m not just having sex with one, not two, but three different guys. That’s right. I’m a player, but that’s cool because I got it like that. My life game, took drop out of school, to be on Girls Gone Wild, and to have my baby. And there’s nothing my super mother can say to change my mind.

Yukiwaru [52:10]:And I’m like Oh my god.

Simone Collins [52:11]:She the best. She was the best.

Malcolm Collins [52:13]:Level of trashiness in the Internet age, and it’s sad.

Yukiwaru [52:17]:Oh, that’s so funny. I should yeah. I should definitely look into that. I mean, we’re we were all watching stuff like Pawn Stars, and I was just looking for the the the episodes where people get, like, really angry and, like, create create a commotion. I was having trouble finding them.

Malcolm Collins [52:33]:But this this reminds me of, like, when you talk about drama, I I think I am in this interesting position with drama where I love watching drama videos. If it’s, like, about a, like, a furry celebrity who ended up, like, crashing out and losing all their fans, and it’s, turkey Tom or whatever, I’m like, I could watch just, like, a chain of those. But within my real life, I’ve entered this stage of life where we have, like, no drama because I’ve cut out, like, the family members who previously would have caused or, like, the people who previously caused drama. And then within our community, there just isn’t a lot of intercommunity drama. Like, none of this this community that you’re being introduced to, like, they’re the most supportive people I have met in my entire life. Like, none of them have ever in any way backstabbed me. It’s been really shocking because now as an adult, I look back on so many eras of my life, and I was like, wait. I just didn’t have to be friends with the

Yukiwaru [53:35]:with the people. Like, imagine that. It’s would’ve saved so much time and energy if I had just known that.

Simone Collins [53:42]:I really odd that we all just kind of grew up thinking we had to it was very stressful

Yukiwaru [53:47]:Mhmm.

Simone Collins [53:48]:To, like, the I I I can’t say these things, and I can’t think these things, and I can’t believe these things. And they’re just certain things. It it’s it’s very

Yukiwaru [53:55]:a lot worse now.

Simone Collins [53:57]:It is a lot worse now. Yeah. I think that’s why so many people are breaking. I mean, that’s why, like, there’s a whole, I guess, community of people online that are, like, considered heterodox left. Like, well, they’re still left in all things. It’s just that they’ve been rejected once for saying the wrong thing, and they’re just starting to get too fed up with it because it’s a little too stressful. But, like, really, nothing has changed about their political views or anything else, uh, which is really funny to me.

Malcolm Collins [54:21]:I mean, my favorite example of this is, like, JK Rowling. JK Rowling is, like, actually, like, a a socialist leftist in everything that you could be a leftist on. And they just couldn’t leave this one issue alone. And they, like, genuinely radicalized this woman.

Yukiwaru [54:37]:Yeah. I mean, that was, what I felt when I went on my ran. I was like, I just can’t deal with this anymore. Like, men saying they can I just I can’t?