The Democratic Trump? AOC shapes up to take on JD Vance

With the media spotlight on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Gavin Newsom, Gerry asks if we should be looking instead at the outsiders to become the next Democratic candidate for the US presidential election in 2028. Is the Dallas Mavericks's owner Mark Cuban a dark horse? And is Stephen A. Smith a brighter, funnier Gary Lineker?

Hosts:

Katy Balls, Washington editor and columnist at The Times and The Sunday Times

Gerard Baker, columnist at The Times and editor at large at The Wall Street Journal

Producer: Euan Dawtrey

Executive producer: Dan Box

Email us: thestateofit@thetimes.co.uk

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