Most doctors are trained to have answers. The higher the stakes, the more certainty is rewarded. But when those same doctors step into leadership roles, that certainty becomes the very thing that gets in their way. Dr. Debra Clary has spent nearly two decades developing leaders inside healthcare organizations, and what her research keeps showing is that the leaders with the highest curiosity have the highest performing teams.
In this episode, she talks about what curiosity actually looks like in clinical...
Most doctors are trained to have answers. The higher the stakes, the more certainty is rewarded. But when those same doctors step into leadership roles, that certainty becomes the very thing that gets in their way. Dr. Debra Clary has spent nearly two decades developing leaders inside healthcare organizations, and what her research keeps showing is that the leaders with the highest curiosity have the highest performing teams.
In this episode, she talks about what curiosity actually looks like in clinical environments, why resistance to change is biological rather than personal, and what happens when doctors who have spent careers being the expert in the room are suddenly asked to lead people who need to be heard.
Timestamped Highlights
[04:00]: Dr. Clary shares the research behind The Curiosity Curve, and why the data connecting leader curiosity to team performance surprised even the researchers who set out to find it.
[08:00]: She describes the single most powerful thing a leader can say to create a culture where people feel safe to speak up, and it is three words most high-achieving people rarely use.
[12:00]: The balance between certainty and curiosity in clinical medicine, and why the same trait that makes a doctor exceptional in an emergency can become an obstacle the moment they step into a leadership role.
[16:00]: Why resistance to change is not a character flaw but a biological response, and what leaders need to say before rolling out any new system or technology if they want it to actually work.
[20:00]: What AI can and cannot do, and why the differentiator that keeps doctors irreplaceable is not clinical knowledge but something more fundamental.
[25:00]: What happens when patients arrive armed with data from their own research, and how a doctor's relationship with curiosity determines everything about how that encounter goes.
Three Key Takeaways
1. Certainty narrows curiosity, and that is where dangerous things happen.
Dr. Clary's research found that leaders who created environments where questions were welcomed and the status quo could be challenged consistently outperformed those who did not. The same principle applies inside clinical environments. The doctor who is certain about how an encounter should go, how a system should work, or how a team should function stops asking questions, and the moment questions stop, so does learning. She is not arguing against clinical confidence. She is arguing that certainty and curiosity need to coexist, and that most leaders lean too heavily on one at the expense of the other.
2. Change resistance is biological, not personal, and leaders who understand that roll it out differently.
When something new arrives, the brain's first job is to assess threat. It is not interested in efficiency or innovation. It is interested in whether this is safe. Dr. Clary coaches leaders to work with that biology rather than against it, which means being transparent about the reason for a change, showing people how they fit into the future, and inviting them to help solve the implementation rather than handing them a directive. The organizations that skip that step, she says, pay for it in resistance, delay, and disengagement. The ones that do not skip it tend to move faster than they expected.
3. Leadership and culture are synonymous.
Dr. Clary's closing message is direct: so goes the top of the house, so goes the organization. A C-suite that does not model curiosity, collaboration, and psychological safety will not produce teams that offer those things either. For doctors moving into leadership roles, this reframe matters because it shifts the question from how do I get my team to perform differently to how do I need to show up differently first. The answer almost always involves asking more questions, saying I do not know more often, and being genuinely interested in what the person in front of you thinks. None of that is complicated. Most of it is just unfamiliar.
Guest Bio
Dr. Debra Clary is a leadership consultant, executive coach, and author based in the United States. With a doctorate in human behavior and organizational design and 18 years at Humana developing healthcare leaders, she works primarily with C-suite leaders and executive teams. She is the author of The Curiosity Curve, published in 2025. Find her at debraclary.com.
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