In this special episode, forensic psychologist Kerry Daynes sits down with Dr Cliff Lansley, the body language expert often called the “Human Lie Detector,” to unpack the real science of spotting deception. A former motor mechanic turned behavioural analyst, Cliff spent a decade working alongside the late Dr Paul Ekman, the world's foremost expert on facial expression, before developing SCAnS, the Six Channels Analysis System now used by police, lawyers and intelligence services. Kerry and Cliff pick apart real police int...
In this special episode, forensic psychologist Kerry Daynes sits down with Dr Cliff Lansley, the body language expert often called the “Human Lie Detector,” to unpack the real science of spotting deception. A former motor mechanic turned behavioural analyst, Cliff spent a decade working alongside the late Dr Paul Ekman, the world's foremost expert on facial expression, before developing SCAnS, the Six Channels Analysis System now used by police, lawyers and intelligence services. Kerry and Cliff pick apart real police interview footage from three of Britain's most notorious killers — Harold Shipman, Ian Huntley and Wayne Couzens — to reveal how a micro head shake, a dropped shoulder or a change in breathing rate can betray a lie the words are trying to hide.
Key psychological themes
This episode explores: deception detection and body language • micro-expressions and subconscious “leakage” • psychophysiology and the polygraph vs SCAnS • cognitive load and lying • myths about gender and lie detection • forensic use of behavioural analysis in court
Contributors featured in this episode
• Kerry Daynes — Forensic psychologist, presenter, and author of Dark Side of the Mind and What Lies Buried.
• Dr Cliff Lansley — Body language expert, founder of the Emotional Intelligence Academy, and author of Getting to the Truth.
What you'll learn in this episode
• Why Cliff prefers the term “truth detector” to “lie detector”, and how the subconscious mind leaks the truth even when the words are lying
• Why two popular myths about lie detection — that women read liars better than men, and that everyone has a Pinocchio-style “tell” — don't hold up
• How SCAnS analyses six channels of behaviour, from facial expression to word choice, and why Cliff needs a cluster of at least three indicators before he trusts a signal
• How Ian Huntley leaked seven separate signs of deception in a three-word denial about his contact with Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman
• Why Wayne Couzens's relaxed phone call to a vet, compared with his stumbling police interview, exposed the mental strain of fabricating a story on the fly
• How Cliff tracked Harold Shipman's breathing rate through his shirt collar, even with his back turned, to pinpoint the moment a victim's name became “a problem” for him
• Why SCAnS is now being used as expert evidence in UK and US courts, and what that could mean for the justice system
Relevant links and further reading
• Kerry Daynes — Dark Side of the Mind (Endeavour, 2019)
• Kerry Daynes — What Lies Buried (Endeavour, 2021)
• Dr Cliff Lansley — Getting to the Truth (available on Amazon)
• Emotional Intelligence Academy (https://www.emotionintell.com/ )
• Faking It: Tears of a Crime — streaming on Discovery+ and HBO Max
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Credits
• Presented by Kerry Daynes, with guest Dr Cliff Lansley
• Produced by Shearwater Media
• Executive producers: Jeff Anderson and Steve Anderson
• Editing and Music: Rob Warner
Content note
This episode references the crimes of convicted killers Harold Shipman, Ian Huntley and Wayne Couzens, and also includes profanity. Listener discretion is advised.
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