CC#113: The Aspiring Administrator - A Panel w/ Dr. Todd Dain

In this episode of Cool Coffee with Kansas Principals, host Rick Sola engages with a panel of aspiring administrators from Kansas. They share their motivations for pursuing leadership roles in education, the challenges and excitement they anticipate, and the importance of mentorship and networking in their journeys. The conversation highlights the transformative power of education and the vital role of school leaders in shaping positive school cultures. The panelists reflect on their experiences, the traits they admire in current administrators, and the significance of being authentic and real in leadership roles.

Connect with the panel (email):
Shelby Muha
Liz Stover-Gebhardt
Jacob Burkholder
Tiffany Hampe
Dr. Todd Dain

 

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

The mission of the Kansas Principals Association, an organization committed to educational excellence and the lifelong success of all students, is to develop and support all principals through optimized learning, collaborative leadership, networking, and service. Read more about the KPA HERE.

Provide Cool Coffee feedback! Click HERE to share thoughts and suggestions--including guests to have on the show!

Click for ALL Cool Coffee episodes!

Connect with Cool Coffee on...

Follow us on X: @KSPrincipals; @KPACoolCoffee

Facebook: KSPrincipals

Contact host Principal Rick Sola: rfsola@olatheschools.org or KPACoolCoffee@gmail.com

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Future Kansas Principals
04:20 Motivations for Pursuing Administration
10:21 Excitement and Nervousness in Leadership
16:40 Balancing Work and Life as an Administrator
22:04 Challenges and Growth in Administrative Roles
24:43 Navigating the Fear of Mistakes in Leadership
25:57 Understanding the Complexity of School Administration
26:58 Valuing Administrative Mentorship and Leadership Traits
28:37 The Importance of Supportive Leadership in Education
30:10 Creating a Positive and Inclusive School Culture
32:06 The Role of Collaboration and Trust in Administration
35:31 Aspiring Administrators: What Makes You Stand Out?
40:34 The Value of Networking and Advocacy in Education

 

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Rick Sola (00:01.602)
Hello and welcome to Cool Coffee with Kansas Principles, or more appropriately today, Future Kansas Principles. I'm joined by four aspiring administrators here in Kansas who have either completed or are currently working toward their administration license. Today we'll visit with them to learn about the administrator influences in their lives, the traits that they admire in administrators.

and why on earth they are interested in joining the so-called dark side of education. Looking forward to hearing all about that. And it sounds like we may have a dog in the audience as well, which is awesome. Big dog lover here. So anyway, but first let's meet our panel of future administrators. First of all, we have Shelby Mouha, 20 years teaching family and consumer science in Kansas. She taught in nine years, smaller districts outside of Manhattan, Kansas before moving back to Kansas City.

for the last 11 years and the last 10 years in Olathe Public Schools. She got her bachelor's and master's from Kansas State University and admin license from Baker University. Welcome, Shelby.

Shelby Muha (01:13.236)
Thanks so much. Happy to be here.

Rick Sola (01:16.076)
All right. And then we have Elizabeth Stover at Gebhart. It goes by Liz. And she earned her MSSL and BA from Baker University, her ninth year of teaching social studies at the high school level at Shawnee Mission South High School, where you're also the head football or softball coach and assistant volleyball coach. Is that correct? Well, welcome, Liz. Glad to have you on here.

Liz Stover (01:24.115)
Yep.

Liz Stover (01:41.597)
That is correct, yeah.

Liz Stover (01:45.651)
Thank you so much for having me.

Rick Sola (01:47.672)
and Jacob Burkholder in his seventh year as an educator and currently teaching Project Lea the Way engineering courses at Piper High School in Kansas City, Kansas. Jacob is certified in social studies and technology and engineering education, holds a bachelor's of science degree from Kansas State University, and is pursuing a master's in educational leadership at Baker University. Welcome, Jacob.

Jacob Burkholder (02:10.963)
Thank you, Rick. I appreciate you having me on.

Rick Sola (02:13.666)
And then finally, Tiffany Hampy, I'm sorry, we just even, I even got that clarified right before we went on. And she has been a teacher for 21 years, eight of those years being spent teaching middle school math, and the other 13 have been high school math with geometry, Algebra II and Algebra III, and attended University of New Mexico for her bachelor's degree in electrical engineering, and eventually her master's degree in secondary education.

Tiffany Hampe (02:18.661)
I clarify right now.

Rick Sola (02:42.112)
and recently finished certification through Baker University for building level leadership. Welcome Tiffany.

Tiffany Hampe (02:48.377)
Thank you. Also, was my dog. Leave it to them to bark at the most inopportune moment.

Rick Sola (02:50.904)
Oh, was a that's perfect. Totally good. And then I do want to welcome back to the show and longtime supporter Dr. Todd Dane, principal of Shawnee-Mitchell South High School, in a SSP board of directors, USA, Kansas, KPA board of directors, 2023, Kansas principal of year, and so many other things, dad to three awesome kids husband to an even better Dr. Dane. Right.

Todd Dain (03:19.246)
It's true. Yes.

Rick Sola (03:21.292)
And he'll be support here today on the admin side of things. And was also instrumental in the assembly of this panel, in this panel. So welcome, Todd.

Todd Dain (03:31.49)
Thank you so much for doing this and putting this together, Rick. I'm looking forward to this discussion.

Rick Sola (03:37.91)
Yeah, it's gonna be great. And this is our first time for Cool Coffee to have so many people in the virtual studio here. So really excited for this, but also really excited to have a group of educators who are in the chair of aspiring to be administrators. And I think there's so much value in remembering if you're listening to this and you're an active administrator, remembering how hungry you felt at that point where you were

aspiring and pursuing these administrative jobs. But I really can't wait to hear what it is about your current administrators or administrators in your path that you really admired. And so we'll get right to it here. And as we go through this and as points come up, certainly all of you feel welcome to interject. This is not a job interview. It's a conversation. so and then Dr. Dayne, of course, anything that you have certainly feel free. But we'll start

with where we were at the initial top of the show here is, what is it that is driving you toward administration? Shelby, we'll start with you. What is it that is just tugging you to get into administration?

Shelby Muha (04:51.219)
Wow, great question. Happy to start us off. You know, thankfully you did send us these questions ahead of time, so we had some time to really think about this. because I think if you were to ask other educators today, are you crazy? Why are you? Why do you want to be an administrator? And I think one of the things that's really focused on my mind is

Tiffany Hampe (05:13.495)
that's really focused on MIME is I really believe that education has the ability to change the trajectory.

Shelby Muha (05:17.573)
I really believe that education has the ability to change the trajectory for students. And I believe that, you know, just like year 20 and year one. And so I've seen as a classroom teacher the ability to make a meaningful impact in students. And I think the thing that's most appealing to me at the administrative level is that you get to have a greater sphere of influence with kids, with adults.

And sometimes teachers need to be reminded that education has the power to change lives. And I think as an administrator, you have an opportunity to do that.

Rick Sola (05:59.107)
That's awesome. Liz, we'll go to you, but Todd, to that, is she crazy? I mean, that was the rhetorical question that she led off with, but is there a crazy element to administration?

Tiffany Hampe (06:07.941)
Bye.

Todd Dain (06:12.812)
Yeah, you have to be a little bit crazy to do this gig. And it's got to be about the kids, you know. And I think that's what keeps me in this chair. I've had some opportunities to kind of move away from the building at a district level. And it's the everyday interaction you have with young people that still keeps me doing this gig.

Rick Sola (06:14.712)
Ha

Rick Sola (06:35.852)
Liz, what about you? What's driving you toward administration?

Liz Stover (06:39.271)
Yeah, I do want to echo what Shelby said. So even just this last week, I've been really fortunate that Dr. Dane has allowed me to be an administrative intern. And just even this past week, the number of questions of, you sure you want to do this? I know Dr. Dane, you were there last week and it got a little chaotic towards the end, just with the long weekend. So, but I am sure I really love this idea of being able to have a.

bigger impact on kids and being able to advocate for them. My background, especially with my younger siblings, spending a lot of time with special education and being able to teach for this, all the different levels that I have in social studies is really just what can I do to have that bigger stage to advocate and make sure that kids get what they need and are supported in every way.

Rick Sola (07:29.88)
So you're an admin intern right now, so you're getting a little bit of real world experience. Have you had a moment of kind of an aha, like, this is administration? Like, you you can sit in the classroom all day long, you can get thrown scenarios like crazy, but you actually experience it you're like, did you ever have one of those moments?

Liz Stover (07:51.304)
Yeah, I think even just this school year, it's happened a few times just to sit back and be able to realize that just the number, because we have a few assistant principals and they're always getting pulled all these different directions. It's putting out one fire here. They have a meeting over here. There's an IEP. So just being able to see that kind of in real time. So, yeah, I think just a few times this year.

Shelby Muha (08:10.771)
you

Rick Sola (08:17.346)
Jacob, what do you think? What's driving you toward administration?

Jacob Burkholder (08:18.643)
Yes. So I think if you'd asked me six years ago if I wouldn't be an administrator, I would have maybe laughed. And then I came from a building where I did not feel super supported, and I came into this incredible district.

And I've just seen incredible leadership. And as I was looking at how I want to advance my career, I was willing to get master's. I was looking at it, and the doors that I thought this would open was something I was much more interested in. And as I look at education, so much of the frustrations, think, in education are outside the classroom. And so how can we build systems that empower people? And I think that's a big aspect of it is just sometimes we can forget that our people are most valuable.

So our teachers, our staff, our students. And as long as we're like student-centered moving forward and with our choices, we're gonna make good choices.

Rick Sola (09:12.408)
That's awesome. I'm going to ask you the same question there that I asked Liz, but have you had any moments yet through any real world experiences that were kind of eye opening and maybe shed some light on something that you wouldn't have seen if you weren't a little deeper into the office?

Shelby Muha (09:14.419)
Thank

Tiffany Hampe (09:19.301)
you

Shelby Muha (09:27.74)
you

Jacob Burkholder (09:29.575)
There so I've.

I'm doing my field experience this semester as well. And there have been two events. One of them was the admin on duty for a basketball tournament for freshmen. And I was the only Piper teacher in the building. And one of the other coaches came up and asked me a question. like, wow, this is real. I have to have the answer for this coach to support them. And was like, let me figure that out real quick and get you what you need. And then another one, I was involved, unfortunately, in an event where we had to suspend a student.

Shelby Muha (09:38.675)
Thank

Jacob Burkholder (10:00.671)
just the very real conversation that student had with us. I was really surprised when the student broke down crying. We had a very real, tender conversation. And just to see how there were consequences, but it ultimately, I think, helped that student and their process through that conversation.

Rick Sola (10:26.552)
Yeah, that's really good. When you become an administrator, you automatically have all the answers, isn't that right, Dr. Dane? Like, you just automatically know the answer.

Todd Dain (10:38.348)
Yeah, absolutely.

I've been in this long enough where I kind of know those answers when they come to me, but I do remember all those times when people would come to me with questions and I wouldn't have the answers, but you you work your tail off to try to find out and and that's what it's about and the follow through that comes with it. So yeah, it's sometimes we've as I've been in it. You forget how many of those quick responses, quick decisions that you make in just one day.

Rick Sola (11:10.658)
Yeah, sometimes owning that you don't yet know and like Dr. Dane said, the follow-up is key. You follow up, you don't have to know every answer, but the follow-up is critical. All right, so Tiffany, what's driving you toward administration?

Tiffany Hampe (11:24.837)
Yeah, similar to Jacob. I think if you would have asked me five or six years ago, I, in fact, my dad has always pushed me to do this. And I was like, no, I'm good being a teacher. I have no desire to be an administrator. And then similar, I went into a school where I feel like my admin is exceptional and really has elicited kind of that, oh, this is the type of change that you can make not only with kids, but also with the adults in your building. And that really got me.

And I have older kids now. I have two boys, one is 20, one is 17. And so I'm not being pulled at home so much. And it just felt like the right time. I don't know. I feel like I'm ready for a change, ready for some challenge. Want to make a difference in a different capacity, adults and kids. And just having admin that are really inspiring has really pushed me to do this.

Rick Sola (12:18.456)
That's awesome. And we'll come back to some of our favorite administrator traits with people, but Tiffany, sticking with you here, what has you really excited about the idea of sitting in an admin chair? And then what has you also really nervous about it?

Tiffany Hampe (12:35.685)
Well, I'm really excited to transfer into a role where, you know, I feel like as a teacher, especially in Mays, Kansas, for the most part, I'm dealing with very well-behaved kids. Our population is pretty low in behavior issues. And so I want to extend this into kids that are struggling behaviorally, which is what I saw a lot in my field experience, just dealing with kids. I was very surprised at how many of them have drug.

and alcohol issues that they deal with. like Liz was saying, how many different directions they're being pulled at all times of the day. I think every teacher would admit to sitting in their classroom and saying, what do they do all day? I mean, seriously, what are they up there doing? Because it doesn't seem like much until you're actually up there and witness it firsthand. And then you're like, I understand. So I think typically I deal with kids that are compliant. And so I think

making a difference. have a really good rapport with all my kiddos and I just feel like that's a strength of mine. So I'm excited to see how that transfers into kids that maybe struggle a little bit more, need a little bit more support. And then most nervous. I work, my son is going to be a senior next year. So I have no interest in leaving the building that I'm at currently. So, and I love that building so much. It's like a family to me that if I were to accept an admin position right now,

it would only be in this building. And that's just because of what's happening in my current life situation. And so I think the switch to working with people that have been my colleagues and having to change from them being more like peers to now I'm in a more leadership position has me pretty nervous. And that's probably my biggest concern right now is just how to make that switch as authentic as possible and as the least awkward as possible, I guess.

Rick Sola (14:33.752)
I see a lot of head nodding there when you mentioned going from classroom teacher to more in the leadership role and working with peers and Todd, have any thoughts on that going from classroom teacher to then in an administrative role in that same building?

Shelby Muha (14:35.059)
Yes.

Todd Dain (14:52.718)
Yeah, so you know, I was fortunate enough to be a classroom teacher for a lot of years. I was a teacher for 20 years and I was a head football coach for 14 years and had an incredible mentor and Dr. Gwen Posse that kind of pulled me aside when I was 40 and said, hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? And so, you know, she, she was incredible for me to go through that process and learn, but she created a

position for me that allowed me to kind of transition in administrative role. And one of the things that I learned full disclosure here is that whether or not you really feel like you change your relationships, the perception automatically changes with it. And I remember walking down the hallway one morning with two colleagues that I knew had a really

Shelby Muha (15:39.859)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Dain (15:48.258)
positive and strong relationship with. I'd worked with them for a number of years side by side and walked down the hall and said, good morning girls, I'm so excited to see you. And the word girls was.

received by them in a way that was condescending and that was not my intention at all. It was 100 % out of affection for those people and those professionals and who they were. But because I was in a different role, they saw it as condescending. And so I had to backtrack and apologize and say, you know, I think you are smart and strong and are wonderful, strong women. And I never wanted them to feel like that I was ever

condescending to them. But it was just it was an eye-opener for me because in some ways I didn't feel like my relationship with them had changed.

But in their eyes, it did. And I think that's an important piece to understand when you kind of step into this role, whether you like it or not, people are going to perceive you in that role. I still kind of think of myself as a kid at heart. And sometimes in my mind, I'm still 17 and try to relate to young people and have fun in what we do. But at the same time, you have to understand that

Shelby Muha (16:46.739)
and

Todd Dain (17:13.742)
that's a shift. And so that was a big transition for me and a wonderful learning experience with friends that I got to learn in a safe place.

Rick Sola (17:25.718)
Yeah, that's a really great example. I was a little different. I started out a building, an administration that I really had very little connections with. But that same sentiment took me back a little bit because that title, whether you think about it that way or not, the title can change the way you're viewed by staff, by students, parents. And it's something to kind of look

grapple with and learn how to manage. like Todd said, in some ways be careful, but also like it's just something you've got to be aware of to some degree. So let's see, Jacob, let's go to you. What has you excited and nervous?

Shelby Muha (18:04.571)
and

Jacob Burkholder (18:10.267)
So as I've worked through these courses, something that I've really enjoyed is thinking about the big picture and just systems, which...

is I guess I'm little nerdy about now. But this summer I actually had the opportunity to serve as a program leader at Scout Camp. And in that role I was serving as the instructional leader for our staff to make sure our staff was delivering a good camping experience to our kids. And that was honestly not something I had been super excited about.

just academically, but now having been that role to see that that was one of the bigger impacts and that just felt like I was empowering powering my staff to go and lift up the kids and like have that amazing experience and In a lot of ways, I think that's some of the most important part of leadership I think one of the things I'm more nervous about is I I know all the field experience I've done

I see everything I've been doing. I'm like, this is really interesting stuff. This is stuff I want to be a part of. But I look at the hours that they work. I'm like, ooh, that's a lot. And I'm at a point where I want to start a family. So that's something I've been thinking about, like how do you have a successful work-life balance?

Rick Sola (19:26.38)
Yeah, I think that's a really something to think about for sure. And I'm at the middle school, Todd's at the high school. I think our hours are probably a little different. Anything that you would want to speak to that on Dr. Dane?

Todd Dain (19:44.194)
Yeah, you know, somebody has asked me in a previous podcast about that. And one of the things that I come back to is, you know, my role is a little bit different than that. I was my last year as a teacher, I was teaching five sections of college prep English. I was the head football coach at a six day high school. I was the head track coach at a six day high school. And the principal called me in and asked me to be the department chair for the English department.

And I just said, can't do all of this and do it well and do it right, do it the way it needs to be done. And so when I think back to the amount of time that I was dedicating to all those things, it's a lot less time now as an administrator that I put in compared to the years when I was a head football coach and a head track coach, just dedicating those hours. The one thing that I would tell you, Jacob,

Jacob Burkholder (20:39.624)
Yes.

Todd Dain (20:39.758)
and all of you aspiring administrators is that the one thing as an administrator, you have a little more control over your clock, right? So your school day is 740 to 240 or eight to three or whatever it is. you've got a little bit of autonomy on your day. Your day isn't run by the bell.

Shelby Muha (21:01.139)
you

Todd Dain (21:01.452)
hour by hour. The other thing that you have a little more control over is all the extra duties and the supervision night duties that you have. it's a considerable amount of hours that we spend at basketball games. After this Zoom call, I'm headed to a Lathie's for a basketball game tonight.

And so you have a lot of those night duties, but you have some input and control over those nights, right? So I know ahead of time that homecoming week, I'm gonna be out four nights. But there may be other weeks when I can be more in control of those hours. So my youngest daughter just finished her collegiate soccer career playing soccer at Northwest Missouri State, and she was.

all conference and team captain and all those things. So one of the things for me over the past four years was that I wanted to make sure that I was attending all of her soccer games. So I could adjust those night duties and we can work together as a team to make sure that I could be at all of her games. And so that meant that I worked soccer on Thursday night and soccer on Tuesday night and

Wrestling on Wednesday or whatever it was so that I could have the open time on Friday and Saturday to go watch her play soccer so So I would say that I there is a lot of time commitment number one. It's less than you spend as a teacher and a coach and As a teacher and a coach you don't have control over your clock But as an administrator you have a lot of time commitment, but you have a little more control over your clock

You have a little more control over what nights you work, what weekends you work, your day, you know, eight to three during your day. If you have other things, family issues, you don't have to get a sub if you got to take your son to the doctor. Right? You don't have a substitute administrator, whereas, you know, as a teacher, you probably have to find a substitute if you have to take your son to the doctor in the afternoon. Right? So it's a little bit different perspective, a little bit different.

Shelby Muha (22:44.647)
and

Todd Dain (23:14.668)
and that you have a little more autonomy as administrator in that role. So I talk too much.

Rick Sola (23:19.768)
And I bet lot of the things that you're all doing are already prepping you for that kind of schedule. On a smaller scale, I was a high school coach. I was a middle school coach at the same time. A lot going on, finishing my masters for administration, all those things were going on. I found that it just prepped me for when that time came and being the role, you start budgeting your time a little differently. And I love that the way you described that.

Shelby Muha (23:26.845)
it.

Rick Sola (23:49.113)
Todd of just managing your own clock, a little bit more control of your clock, but that's where those shadow experiences can be really valuable. I was able to shadow the AD at a high school here in town and it was eye opening for a lot of really good things. really helped me think through different decisions that were potentially on the horizon for me. So Liz, we'll jump to you. What has you super excited and super nervous about being an administrator?

Shelby Muha (24:00.82)
you

Liz Stover (24:16.903)
Yeah, I was really looking forward to this question. One of the things that I talk to my players about is, because I coach softball and volleyball, this feeling of being nervous and excited is really the same. So being able to take a step back and really process why exactly you're feeling that way. So for me, the answer is the same is that I'm.

I'm really excited for a challenge of being an administrator. I'm really excited for those unknowns every day. So right now I can make my lesson plans and I have a really strong feeling of what my day is going to look like with a couple of things here and there, just being ready to pivot. But this idea of being able to challenge myself for something new. When I was doing my master's degree, I was doing my master's, I was planning my wedding, I was my first season as a head coach and now

Everything just kind of feels like it's moving slow. So I feel like I'm really ready for that challenge and just to kind of take another step up.

Rick Sola (25:15.48)
It's awesome, ready for the challenge. saw again, a lot of nodding heads there, which is awesome to see. Shelby to you, excited and nervous.

Shelby Muha (25:19.345)
Thanks.

Shelby Muha (25:23.877)
Yeah, well, Liz, I like to combine scared and excited and call it skited because I think that I am skited as well. I am, you know, of course curious about how am going to handle those intense moments, right? Like Jacob alluded to that moment of like, I'm the guy now, right? Like I need to have the answers to this. And

I think it'll be so good for me after 20 years in the classroom to be forced to learn something new. And I think that's been one of the most exciting things about being, you know, going through the Baker Building Licensure Program is that I was kind of hit this accelerated growth curve. And I was like, man, this is really awesome. Like, this is really cool. And I really like this. And I want to continue learning. And I want to continue growing. that.

I'm excited to continue learning. I am nervous I'm going to mess up. The consequences are a little different on a more public stage. I feel like everything really matters, right? All those important conversations that you have with students and with parents and with staff. I want to be really intentional in those

those offshoot moments that Dr. Dane mentioned of like those little side comments of like, shoot, I need to backpedal and fix that. I feel like as an administrator, things just carry more weight. The words that you say and every conversation from with a classified staff member to a kid to a certified staff member, like your words matter all the time.

That's just a new way of operating. So yeah, there's so many things, so many skited things that I keep thinking about.

Rick Sola (27:28.088)
That is a new word for me, but I like it. I remember very distinctly the fear of messing up and like in my head, I just kept thinking, I don't want the building to come to a grinding halt because of some bonehead decision I made or didn't do or something. the reality is the school is going to go on. It always does. But how you

correct the mistakes, you backtrack, you own it, you apologize, show humility, all those things can help with the overall buy-in of working with the people that you're with all the time. I appreciate the honesty of, yeah, I just don't want to mess up, because I think that's a very real feeling for being in the chair. I don't want to mess up now, and I've been doing it for a while. But especially early on, it can feel like things move really quick.

Shelby Muha (28:16.723)
you

Rick Sola (28:26.916)
One thing I appreciated earlier when Tiffany was talking again, there's a lot of nodding heads. wish in some ways I wish this was a video podcast so you can see that. But when she was talking about the surprise when you get into the office and some of the conversations you're having and perhaps even that feeling sometimes like, what is really going on in the office? But you all seem to really kind of like nod like almost emphatically. And I guess I'll just ask for another nod. But

Am I accurate that you all have had that experience where you're like, like, wow, like this was bigger than I thought, or there's a lot more going on behind the curtain than I ever could have imagined.

Tiffany Hampe (29:08.632)
Yeah, 100%.

Jacob Burkholder (29:09.543)
Very much so.

Rick Sola (29:11.266)
Yeah. That was...

Shelby Muha (29:11.473)
Yes, yeah, things are very real behind that curtain.

Liz Stover (29:12.85)
Yeah.

Rick Sola (29:17.452)
For an audio podcast, that was a really poorly worded question because all we're seeing is everyone nodding and you know, but no, I enjoyed that. So question here, and I'm really interested in this and this would be a time to really name drop part of this podcast is we always brag on our people, but you all have administrators that have been in your path. We just heard about Dr. Posse who was in Dr. Dane's path way back in probably safe to say was trajectory changing for Dr. Dane back then.

Tiffany Hampe (29:22.348)
You

Tiffany Hampe (29:31.012)
you

Rick Sola (29:47.129)
Who are those administrators? But more specifically, what is it you appreciate about them? What's a trait that they have demonstrated? Maybe you're with them now or maybe it's somebody in the past. But what are some of those traits, administrative traits that you really have grown to appreciate? let's start, we'll go, Jacob, we'll start with you on this one.

Jacob Burkholder (30:09.043)
I've been really lucky since I've been at Piper with the leadership we've had here. And that's something I really appreciate is just the vision that leadership has and the desire to get us somewhere better.

And if there's a problem, it's like, OK, how do we fix this? And so there's a discussion around that. Specifically, my building, I really appreciated working with all the administrators, but especially Kelsey and Selmy and Bobby Cave. And when they found out I was starting this program, they both would start to show me some other things and have discussions about, hey, what do you think of this situation? And so was like informal coaching before I even started the field experience. And that was just really beneficial.

opening and just having someone to go talk to and like spitball ideas off of I'll know something like how would how would you expect to handle this situation and just having that soundboard to learn from.

Rick Sola (31:08.322)
So you just mentioned two people I have a connection with and I bring it up not just to show that, I've got a connection with, but I have found over and over and over again that education for as big as we are, there are so many six degrees of separation. So Kelsey and Salmi, I worked with her mom at a previous school, Prairie Trail. Her mom was the nurse there. then Bobby Cave, I currently work with his sister here at the school.

Jacob Burkholder (31:12.531)
Okay.

Rick Sola (31:38.275)
Chisholm Trail where I'm principal. And I think it's really important to realize there's connections all around. And you just mentioned two incredible administrators, incredible people. Unfortunately, sometimes when names get brought up, like in an interview or a reference, and you're hearing someone say something that's not as positive, you just never know who you're sitting across from. You never would have known these connections and...

Jacob Burkholder (31:40.957)
Awesome.

Rick Sola (32:05.976)
I think that's a big caution, especially for people interviewing for any job. Be careful how you talk about people, you know. We all have connections out there, but yeah, two people that I know are very highly regarded where you're out there. Let's go to Tiffany.

Tiffany Hampe (32:25.407)
Yes, so I don't know how well you guys know the area, but I work for Dr. Chris Botts right now. He's amazing. He's got an amazing leadership team that he's kind of created. He is the first principal that I've ever worked for that really inspired growth, reflection, but also at the end of the day makes every single staff member feel like their family comes first. And that was really, really important to me.

I don't know, I just feel like I've grown a lot and I don't feel like people take that for granted. Like I don't think that they or use that to their advantage that he says your family should always come first so they're taking off all the time. It almost does the opposite where it created this culture of we all support each other and I'm gonna push you to be your best and do your best but also if there are things going on outside of school, please handle those because that's most important to everyone in the building.

And then, you know, he's awesome and he's also had really strong women leadership that I look up to. Morgan Marsh, Amy Zuido, and even Sonia Tice, they have all been admin there while I've been there. And I think it's hard to be a woman in administration. think, you know, we're still kind of trying to forge our path there. And, you know, a lot of times when women come across very...

stern and strict, they're given that capital B word. And so I think the women in this building show a good balance of loving kids, but also holding them to a high standard. And that's been really nice to see. So yeah, it's just a very positive culture, very welcoming culture, very community-based. I think everybody feels supported and that's been really important to me.

Shelby Muha (34:09.779)
Thank

Rick Sola (34:17.752)
It's awesome. Yeah, love that kind of firm but respectful approach there. Let's see. Liz, have we heard? Liz, we'll go to you on this one.

Liz Stover (34:27.425)
Yeah. Yeah. So I actually feel really fortunate that every school, every district that I've been in, even growing up. So Dr. Dane, you mentioned Dr. Paz here a little bit ago. Dr. Yurkovich, those were really strong female leaders to look up to, just even going through middle school, high school, and then beyond. So when I first started teaching at Washburn Rural in Topeka, I was really impressed by the team that

Ed Rains and Kyle Reed had for us out there. Everything when I initially got into teaching was very much like a coaching, a mentorship. And that

I think really formed who I am just as a teacher and some of my kind of long-term beliefs about what we can do as administrators and how we can work together. And then to jump right into Shiny Mission South with Dr. Dane and everyone that we have there. So for me, I feel like I kind of gravitate towards principals who are visible, people who are consistent in administrating. So whether that's the students, the teachers, that sort of thing, which is what I feel like.

Dr. Dane, we've been really strong with it, South, but just even the culture there. For me to immediately come in, feel welcomed, and then to feel trusted with the administrators to take on some of these leadership roles and be able to go in and ask questions, ask just for clarification. I might not be directly involved in some scenario, but I can go in and say, I noticed that we did this, how-

Like how do we navigate that? How do we make those decisions and being able to be trusted with that information, even to go as far as to making decisions on my own and to be able to talk through that I think is really formative right now.

Rick Sola (36:20.344)
That's awesome. And you know, when it comes down to making big decisions, there's always people to call, you know, and I know Dr. Dane, you've got a team out there. You guys are a strong team. There's always somebody either in your building or outside your building. I know that Dr. Dane's a person I could call if I needed to, but there's that network there. Shelby, finish us off on this question. What do you appreciate most about your favorite administrators?

Shelby Muha (36:47.228)
Yeah, I think the best example I can think about this is when it was 2017 and Olathe West was getting ready to open and it is the last high school that Olathe has built and it's amazing and I still work here and there was a moment where as a family consumer science teacher, the two other teachers in our department, we had to like get all of our stuff, right? So we had to like

unpack tons and tons of tools and mean curriculum equipment. mean just like moving into a giant brand new 6A house, right? And so the principal who opened this building, Jay Novacek, walking through the Commons and I had a quick question about something small and I was like, yeah, we had a question about something and he was like, yeah.

He knew exactly what I was talking about. He could tell me that it was like when it was ordered, when it was going to arrive and like all of these things. And I remember thinking like, wow, like he is really, really on it. And as a teacher, it made me feel like what I was bringing to this team as a brand new building was really valuable.

and that I wasn't going to be kind of like forgotten in the shuffle, right? And if you're, you're putting the time in, because this was July, right? So we were like giving up the end of our summer to go unpack our giant new house. And I felt so taken care of by him. And I have, you know, since since that moment. And I think that Jay specifically is someone who will go to bat for you.

and he will defend you as long as you're defendable and he will always come when you call. I think that's one of the things our entire administrative team here that I've always, always so appreciated. Megan Black, Pat Butler, Josh Humphrey, Dr. Aniline Morris, they come when I call and I feel like they trust me, they trust my decision-making and if I need help, they're gonna show up.

Shelby Muha (39:04.624)
I have to, you know, the thing that I, when I was choosing a mentor in my Baker cohort, I wanted to pick somebody who I knew didn't think like I did. And I wanted to learn and I have learned a ton from Dr. Annalyn Morris. And she is the most innovative and creative and inspirational people that I have had the opportunity to work with. And I have learned so much.

to the point where I'm like, man, like what new thing are we going to have to learn? Because learning is hard, right? It's uncomfortable in some way. But she's constantly like encouraging and pushing the envelope and challenging me as a leader and challenging what, you know, I always say that I feel like she creates an image of a more perfect school system.

Like what we could all aspire to be as leaders and how the system could continuously get better.

Rick Sola (40:10.998)
I really like your acknowledgement that you chose a mentor who did not think like you.

like you do. And I think how important that is when you're putting together, if you have the opportunity to put together a team, an administrative team, and how important it is to have different perspectives and different thoughts. And, you know, so you can, you can bounce ideas that balance is so critical and it'll help you really think through situations where you've just got blind spots. We all have them, you know, there's different things that you need that other perspective. So I really liked that, that you said that we're going to wrap up with one more question.

And then I'll kick it to doc. Dr. Dane here at the end, but we'll do like a 45 second spiel here This is this is your chance, but you know all of you are aspiring administrators I know Tiffany you got your eyes on one building and one building only next year, but then after that you know all bets are off But why does a building principal who's listening right now? Why would they want to hire you as their assistant principal or principal? and let's start with

Tiffany Hampe (41:03.275)
You

Rick Sola (41:15.938)
Who would like to start on this one? No pressure here.

Rick Sola (41:22.648)
Alright Shelby.

Shelby Muha (41:23.944)
Okay. Yeah, this is definitely one I chose to write down because I was like, man, this is an on air interview question. So thanks for the softball, Rick. Just kidding. So I think a building principal who's listening right now would want to hire me because I feel like I'm doing it for the right reasons. I understand the workload and the grunt work or as Jane Novacek calls it, the administrators are the pooper scoopers of the school.

Tiffany Hampe (41:24.695)
Hahaha!

Rick Sola (41:35.788)
Yeah.

Rick Sola (41:53.218)
Ha ha ha.

Shelby Muha (41:54.453)
He said this on a day that they all went outside and were like cleaning off the staff cars and student cars when we got an unexpected like four inches of snow. I understand the service required and I respect the privilege and the responsibility that lies within being a building leader. I believe that I can keep the first things first and have a clear idea of what's best for kids.

I also really like people and I know how to communicate and pitch and sell and influence ideas. I love being on a team and I love to collaborate with others. And I know that I don't know everything, but I'm also very much willing to learn, want to grow and want to be great at this.

Rick Sola (42:36.21)
Awesome. Very good. Thank you, Shelby, for leading us off. Jacob, let's go to you.

Jacob Burkholder (42:41.779)
I love what she said, that was amazing. I think for me, I believe that our greatest resource is our people. so creating a culture where people feel valued is just really important. And I feel like that's something I do really well. And then just having a growth mindset. So I know going into any admin position, I have a lot to learn. And just having that mindset of always saying like,

Tiffany Hampe (42:45.204)
Yeah

Jacob Burkholder (43:08.485)
What do I need to learn here? How can I learn from this experience so the next time it's better? And just that reflectiveness is really good. And then the ability to collaborate. And I'm not afraid to ask for help when I need it. And I also know that there's times where I just need to make a decision and go with it. And having that mindset, I think, is really important.

Rick Sola (43:32.044)
Great. Thank you, Jacob. Tiffany, we'll go over to you.

Tiffany Hampe (43:36.172)
Yeah, I'll echo a lot of what's already been said. Obviously, I'm a very reflexional, growth-centered person. Otherwise, I don't feel like I would have gotten here in the first place. And I think just for those reasons, if I were an administrator, that's what I would be looking for. I also just know that I have a really good rapport with kids and can work really well with most kids. So I think that's a huge strength of mine. And most importantly, my son is dating my principal's daughter.

So for that reason alone, he should just hire me, right?

Rick Sola (44:09.496)
100 % yeah. Excellent Liz.

Liz Stover (44:16.839)
Alright, those are some answers to follow up. Way to go, guys. Yeah, I really believe that it doesn't matter if it's a team, a business, a school, everyone...

is most successful when we're all unified and working towards the same vision, that same culture. And I really believe that I'm kind of that ultimate teammate. So I'm someone that's there to amplify staff. I'm there to amplify students and help them kind of get to those goals and just show off how great our education system is. So that could be investing in teachers and helping them learn and become an instructional leader that could be

helping kids in accessing resources that they really truly need. And really just kind of being that calm during a storm. I'm a pretty level-headed person. I'm not an up and down person at all. So just to be able to be there and be a consistent voice to support everybody in whatever way I can, whether that's a student, a teacher or the principal.

Shelby Muha (45:14.932)
Thanks.

Rick Sola (45:21.686)
Well, awesome. Well, thank you to the four of you for those answers. I know you had I gave you these questions at a time, but that's a tough one to answer because you're having to talk about yourself. And that's one of the most uncomfortable things is, you know, kind of tooting our own horns, if you will. But no, I appreciate that. And again, your willingness to be on here. There is a big piece of administration that truly was not on my radar early, early as an administrator and really honestly only.

recently, you know, this is a KPA podcast and my involvement in that has really broadened my my vision statewide and going beyond just where I work. And I thought there's there's no one else better to speak to the value of the network, to the value of connections than Dr. Todd Dane, who's sitting with us right here. And so I want to, Todd, kick it to you a little bit to share a little bit about the value of

of the network that we all have. We've just built a new network here, a six perhaps. You all have my contact information and it's there for the taking, but Dr. Dane, you're deep into it and there's so much that goes beyond that. I think a lot of us new in the position don't realize is there. So I'll turn it over to you.

Shelby Muha (46:32.372)
Thank

Todd Dain (46:43.564)
Yeah. Thanks, Rick. I do appreciate the opportunity. And I would say that like you, you just kind of get into the role and you start grinding and then, you one day kind of lean up, take a breath and you're voluntold to do all these things. Right. And so honestly, that's, that's kind of how I got into it. I I'm not a political person by nature. I'm not,

someone that that kind of thinks outside my my own. Office here, my own school and my own community sometimes, but the one thing that I've learned in getting involved at the state level in Kansas Principal Association USA, Kansas and then the national level is that there's so much to learn from one another and whether it's being a principal in a large high school in Kansas or being from a small rural community.

or someone that you connect with or I've connected with in New Jersey or New Mexico or across the country, the one thing that I've realized is that we still have so much to learn and so much that we can learn from one another. And so I would tap into that personal network. I think all of us, when we are sharing, everyone that was sharing names of individuals and leaders that we all know.

list and that group grows smaller and smaller because it's a really small circle in education like Rick talked about. So let me first just say that that personal learning network and that professional learning network is something that you continue to tap into, continue to learn from others and rely on each other and still ideas. Some of the best ideas that we've done

during my tenure as an administrator are the ideas that I've stolen from others. so, lean heavily on that, but I also think that it's important to understand the impact of your role. And so, from the Kansas Principles Association perspective, I think it's important that we continue to elevate principal voices at the state level and at the national level. Like I mentioned before,

Todd Dain (49:06.638)
I kind of got involved. Someone volunteered to get involved at the state level. And a year ago, I was testifying to the state legislature on what we need to do to advocate for young people. And I've been to Washington, D.C. and had an opportunity to advocate at that level as well. And there's so much that we can do as building leaders and as administrators. There are people at the state level, people at the administration,

federal level that are making decisions about our young people every day. And so many of them have never stepped foot in a school. And so it's really our job, I think, to elevate our voices to make sure that our lawmakers understand that those decisions they make are impacting young people every day. And so that's an overall broad view. But I think that's one of things that I've learned over the years is that

You know, I've had such a rich opportunity to learn as a teacher and a coach and as administrator. And it's really our obligation, our responsibility to give back and to really advocate for young people moving forward. So that's a whole lot in a short time period. And I hope that's what you're targeting there, Rick. But I wanted to plug a little bit of that advocacy piece.

Rick Sola (50:28.6)
It's perfect.

No, that's perfect. And I know you're very involved in that and just getting involved with the KPA like I have over the last few years has just really broadened that vision to be able to sit next to somebody in a district that might be a two-way district. And we're sharing the same concerns, the same problems, and we can learn so much from each other. It's just been awesome. You one thing I'll wrap it up with this, there's so many things with administration that

Oftentimes we could joke about I joked at the start of this of joining the dark side or the the really challenging situations the the things that make you laugh the things that make you cry the things that make you you know go crazy whatever At the end of it. There's no better job in education, and I've said it on this podcast before It's a challenging job Todd you said you got to be a little bit crazy to be in here. There might be an element of that

Tiffany Hampe (51:05.453)
you

Rick Sola (51:30.764)
But it's amazing the connections and the impact that you have potentially put the potential you have to make on kids. It is unbelievable. And yeah, there's challenging times. Yeah, there's there's learning lessons for us, but I wouldn't have it any other way. So but I will say all the best to the four of you and all of your information will be in the show notes. So check it out. If you've got a job opening for an administrator, you've got their connections here.

Tiffany Hampe (51:58.467)
Yeah

Shelby Muha (51:59.541)
Yeah.

Rick Sola (52:00.481)
If you're listening to this, I mean, there's there's like thousands and thousands and thousands of people that listen to this podcast. So maybe maybe not. But but for those who are listening for really great individuals here and truly thank you for your time, because this is not the most comfortable thing to do is to come on a podcast and kind of more or less be vulnerable with an audience out there. So thank you so much for being here today.

Tiffany Hampe (52:09.475)
Hahaha!

Todd Dain (52:09.74)
Yeah.

Tiffany Hampe (52:28.093)
Thank you for having us.

Todd Dain (52:29.038)
Rick, I want to add this because we have four aspiring administrators here and all of them talked about being kind of nervous and not wanting to make mistakes and some of those things. And I have to believe that there are listeners out there who are also aspiring administrators. And so here's my one piece of advice. And I think Rick touched on it a little bit also, because I remember stepping into the role and not wanting to make a mistake and all the things.

Jacob Burkholder (52:29.479)
Yeah, really appreciate it.

Liz Stover (52:29.897)
Thank you so much.

Shelby Muha (52:31.612)
It was awesome.

Todd Dain (52:56.98)
But in 11 years, I can tell you I make mistakes every day. And the one thing that I've learned is this. You don't have to be perfect. You just have to be real. And when you make a mistake, you own it, and don't make it again. And I think that's the reality of what we try to do every day. don't, I learned that.

Shelby Muha (53:13.364)
Mm-hmm.

Todd Dain (53:19.628)
That was a huge epiphany for me one or two years into my administrative role is that I didn't have to be perfect every day. I just had to be myself and be honest and authentic. And I think if you do that in this role, people see through all of the fluff that's out there and realize if you truly care about young people, if you truly care about teachers, you truly care about families, then all of that will shine through.

Shelby Muha (53:29.15)
me.

Rick Sola (53:48.62)
Yeah, that is awesome advice and a perfect tagline, I think, for this episode. But truly awesome. Thank you, Dr. Dane, for taking time. I know you're on your way to a basketball game after this. And to the four of you, all the best. And thanks again for your time today.

Todd Dain (54:00.526)
You're served.

Tiffany Hampe (54:05.389)
Thank you.

Jacob Burkholder (54:06.227)
Thank you.

Liz Stover (54:07.539)
Thank you.

Shelby Muha (54:07.583)
Thank you so much.