Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Episode 853: Amy Watkins Jensen, “Women on the Stand”

My friend Amy Watkins Jensen (teacher, writer, active LDS, founder of “Women on the Stand”) join us to share her story including: Growing up Mormon in Chicago Mission to Argentina—first awareness of gendered imbalance Brother coming out as gay Carol Lynn Pearson’s living room Y/W LGBTQ service project Backstory starting “Women on the Stand” Area Presidency ending practice, heartache, letter writing President Oak’s recent invitation on the need to do better Best practices Any shares powerful and important principles behind the movement (which isn’t asking for doctrinal changes) including: Aligning of practices with our doctrine (which is divine equality) Respectfully relentless If you are looking to better support Latter-day Saint women, please listen to this podcast and connect with Amy’s work. As Amy teaches “It will help us come closer to the divine equality that is our doctrine—and part of our beautiful theology—allowing us to thrive”. Thank you, Amy, for your great work. You are making a difference. I learned so much from you—you give me hope! Links: Best practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xuxe0qF_naSVfF3FifQzvv9AAQeHdzD5LU-AaZ_mlws/edit?usp=drivesdk Hope for Future practices link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19RuApg_1a-GGZYERHhvVRjI23IKPI3ooAdjUHE-gZAs/edit?usp=sharing Instagram account: @womenonthestand Substack: https://womenonthestand.substack.com/

Episode 852: Andy Newman—Episode Two—Mixed Faith Marriages

*Note: This episode is about my goal to reduce the tension between those who stay in the Church and those who leave** My friend Andy Newman (married father of three, Ex-Mormon, therapist, LGBTQ ally, bridge builder) join us to discuss: * Understanding/supporting your spouse that left the church * Understanding/supporting your spouse that stays in the church * What helps couple stay strong * Shares values over shared beliefs * The Gottman Method * A,C,T,S Andy’s work is more than theoretical—as he talks “in-real-life” about how this works in their marriage with examples of how he supports his wife and three daughters in their church attendance (including giving a talk at a daughter’s baptism) and the peace he has found with people he loves holding different beliefs. Andy mentions the work of Allan and Kattie Mount and their podcast “Marriage on a Tightrope”. Thank you, Andy, for bringing your clinical expertise and own personal journey to help those in a mixed-faith marriage. I learned so much from you and appreciate your voice and healing work in our community. You are a good man—glad to have you on the podcast! Links: Psychology today: www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/andy-newman-gilbert-az/974441 IG: www.instagram.com/andynewmanlpc/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@deconstruction_therapy Twitter: @andynewmanlpc Epsiode One: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-846-andy-newman-episode-one/id1347971725?i=1000734877746

Episode 851: Rebecca Mullen: Life Coach, LGBTQ Ally, Author, Podcaster

My friend Rebecca Mullen (lives in Colorado, master certified life coach) joins us to talk about her work of healing including: Becoming an LGBTQ ally in her younger years Removing shame and providing healing Helping everyone to be their authentic selves Loving people that Churches don’t always love/accept Principles for managing marriage conflict Importance and application of love If you are looking for insights/perspectives to heal and bring people closer together, Rebecca’s work will help you. Thank you, my friend Rebecca, for being on the podcast—your great heart—and all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Rebecca’s web site (you can find her contact info, life coach work, podcast and book here): https://RebeccaMullenCoaching.com/ Outdoor Therapist episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/episode-736-zak-hazlett-the-outdoor-therapist/id1347971725?i=1000645256176

Episode 850: Katie Searle: Powerful Story of Navigating Loss, Grief, and the Courage to Rebuild

My friend Katie Searle (certified mediator, philanthropic consultant, grant writer, and mother) joins us to share her story, including: Being raised in two homes after parents divorced (mother and her wife; father and his wife) Going to BYU-Hawaii, part of Dr Chad Ford’s Peacebuilding Program and working at the McKay Center for Intercultural Understanding, temple marriage Co-founding Kinfolk Magazine, adapting to the pace of a fast growing start-up Leaving the Church (LGBTQIA+ issues/feeling uneasy with messages that harmed people she loves, valuing authenticity over obedience, developing own moral compass) Moving to Copenhagen and heartbreaking loss of a baby son Leo, at 5 months pregnant; the isolation of grieving abroad without community Becoming pregnant again, husband coming out as gay, marriage ending Moving back to Oregon, managing heartbreak, daughter born, support from mother and her wife Falling in love with Joe, his death on the day he was to move in, profound grief Opening heart to a new love with Matt and their committed partnership, shared life, and blended family Katie writes about grief with these powerful words: “I never sought to be an expert in grief and loss, but that is where my life journey has taken me. In navigating two separate households as a child, a transition of faith, the losses of a child, a marriage, a career, and the sudden death of my ‘chapter two’—my soul love—I’ve become well-acquainted with the darkness of deep loss, grief, and the grit of burning resilience. I care deeply about equipping others with the ability to adapt to life’s unavoidable conflicts, trauma, tragedies and stressors. Learning to live with adversity and grief in a culture that is pain-adverse can feel impossible and incredibly lonely, but there are ways to move forward (rather than moving on), rebuild and reclaim joy. I know this, because I’ve lived it time and time again—and so can you.” Katie is also the Assistant Director of the Waymakers initiative (with Chad Ford & Patrick Mason), and planner of their conflict resolution workshop series, REPAIR. Dr. Chad Ford writes about Katie’s roll in their recent workshop to "Maintaining Love during Faith Transitions" with these words: “Katie came up next. She spoke about her own faith transition in the most vulnerable way possible. She reminded us of both the fragility of change and the bravery it takes to find truth and belonging, especially when that means making choices that ask ourselves and others to leave behind old versions of ourselves. There were tears flowing as Katie, in her own graceful way, reminded us what it means to be human.” Thank you, Katie, for your courage to share your story—which helps all of us better understand grief and more tools to help others walking this road. Thank you for your bridge building work in our community. Thanks for all you are doing to bring us together as the same human family. Links: Waymakers' next REPAIR event: Interfaith REPAIR: A multi-faith workshop on healing divides and building communities of peace, March 6th, 2026, Salt Lake City (Tickets on sale early 2026) Waymakers: https://www.waymakers.us Support Waymakers: https://donorbox.org/waymakersproject Katie Searle's website & contact info: https://katiesearle.com/ Chad Ford's Earlier Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-847-dr-chad-ford-new-book-seventy-times-seven/id1347971725?i=1000735977230

Episode 849: Isaac Durfey: Black/Gay Latter-day Saint, Updated Story

My friend Isaac Durfey (who was on episode 833) joins us to update listeners on his journey including: * Parent leaving on a mission * What happened to help him stopping “hating himself for being gay” * Importance of new beginnings * Friends like Jake and Joe Sharp (who were on episode 811) * Feeling about the Family Proclamation * Hope for the future * Love of the LDS Church and the support/love he receives Thank you, my friend Isaac, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. Links: Episode 833: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/episode-833-isaac-durfey-black-gay-latter-day-saint/id1347971725?i=1000710494050 Episode 811: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/episode-811-jake-and-joe-sharp-lost-brother-sam-to/id1347971725?i=1000691741343