Sub Club by RevenueCat

How Skylight Balances Growth and Profit for Sustainable Success – Michael Segal & Mark Ungerer, Skylight

On the podcast, I talk with Michael and Mark about the boom in hardware-enabled subscriptions, why nothing worked until they stopped optimizing and started building a better product, and how they doubled their price to $79 even though the data said they could charge more.Top Takeaways:📱 Hardware-enabled subscriptions need daily usage to work Devices that sit unused make subscription value harder to justify, but products that become the heartbeat of daily routines (like a family calendar) naturally create subscription demand.🎯 Stop optimizing when you should be buildingLimited resources force careful prioritization, and sometimes the biggest wins come from building genuinely valuable features rather than running endless conversion experiments.💰 Price based on customer emotion, not just dataTesting showed $99 would maximize revenue, but qualitative research revealed $79 felt fair while $99 approached "disgust territory," so they chose the lower price for long-term goodwill.🏗️ Build a great product before scaling marketingSkylight tried to scale Calendar in 2021-22 but the product wasn't ready, leading to wasted marketing spend and false negatives until they focused on getting to 40+ NPS first.🛍️ Retail partnerships are the ultimate influencerBeing in Costco and Best Buy provides a stamp of quality that can't be underestimated, and multi-channel distribution drives higher overall growth despite lower subscription attach rates in some channels.About Michael Segal & Mark Ungerer:🚀 CEO, Skylight📱 Michael Segal is the CEO of Skylight, a family tech company best known for its digital frames and calendars. Michael, a former venture capitalist, brings a unique perspective to Skylight’s growth strategy, focusing on balancing growth with profitability. He shares anecdotes about Skylight’s journey from hardware to subscription models, the importance of understanding customers' emotions about pricing, and how the team navigates the challenges of scaling both hardware and software.👋 LinkedIn🚀 CPO, Skylight📱 Mark Ungerer is the Chief Product Officer at Skylight, where he leads product strategy, development, and design. With a keen focus on creating seamless user experiences, Mark discusses Skylight’s approach to subscriptions, how they test and refine features based on user feedback, and the key role retail partnerships play in building trust and credibility. 👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] The balance between growth and profit: Making decisions based on business goals[3:22] Timing the introduction of subscriptions: Skylight's early adoption and consumer reception[5:35] The hardware-enabled subscription boom: Market maturity and Skylight’s position[8:00] Unique challenges of marketing hardware-enabled subscriptions: Overcoming consumer skepticism[10:52] How Skylight integrates hardware with daily family life to drive subscription value[12:47] Pricing strategy: The magic behind Skylight’s price increase and minimal subscriber loss[17:43] Challenges in scaling growth: How Skylight navigates its multi-channel strategy[24:15] Shifting from free trials to subscription: The evolution of Skylight’s approach to testing[27:35] The importance of talking to customers: Using qualitative feedback to guide decisions[30:00] Retail partnerships as a growth strategy[33:45] Subscription dynamics: How pricing and subscription models shape Skylight’s business[36:25] Scaling with limited resources: Skylight’s approach to growth without a dedicated growth PM[38:40] Navigating hardware, software, and subscription moats[42:00] Biggest win: The success of the $79 subscription price increase[44:05] Biggest fail: Learning from free trial experiments and the need for more growth testing[46:01] Growth would be easier with more resources and strategic price adjustments for wider market reach[48:30] The importance of reducing friction in onboarding for increased conversions[52:30] The challenges of balancing customer acquisition with retention efforts[55:02] Skylight's vision for long-term customer value and growth[57:45] The impact of reducing friction in purchasing: How simple changes can dramatically increase conversion rates[59:10] Closing thoughts on growth strategy: Aiming for long-term success, not short-term wins

How ElevenLabs Builds, Prices, and Grows AI Consumer Apps

On the podcast we talk with Tanmay and Jack about how earned media can drive paid performance, building features that make for good tweets, and why stripping out your onboarding quiz might beat optimizing it.Top Takeaways:📊Pricing should match how users think — not how AI worksOne of the biggest wins came from simplifying pricing. For ElevenReader, selling listening time instead of tokens or credits dramatically improved clarity and conversion. Abstracting away AI complexity for consumers is not dumbing things down — it’s good product sense.🏎️Small, autonomous “pods” enable speed to become the moatInstead of one massive org, ElevenLabs operates like 10–12 startups inside the company. Small teams with full ownership can ship fast, iterate relentlessly, and make real product decisions without waiting on heavy processes — a critical edge in fast-moving AI markets.💸Earned media compounds — and fuels paid performanceElevenLabs treats launches as compounding assets. Each launch earns attention, which boosts branded search, improves paid efficiency, and makes future launches stronger. Growth isn’t just ads vs. organic — it’s a flywheel where story, brand, and performance reinforce each other.🕊️Start launches with the “tweet thread,” not the featureBefore building launch assets, teams write the Twitter/X thread first. If a feature can’t be explained clearly and compellingly in a short narrative, it’s a red flag. This keeps teams focused on real user value instead of shipping “flashy but hollow” features.🌐 Consumer apps are a strategic advantage for platform companiesElevenLabs doesn’t see consumer apps as competing with its API customers — they’re a force multiplier. Being their own best customer helps them build better APIs, understand real user needs, and strengthen brand affinity across creators, consumers, and developers.About Tanmay Jain & Jack McDermott🚀 Mobile Growth Lead, ElevenLabs 📱 Tanmay Jain leads mobile growth for the core ElevenLabs app, focused on translating ElevenLabs’ powerful web + API capabilities into a mobile-native experience that’s simple, fast, and creative-first. He brings a founder mindset from previous roles (including Canva), and shares how ElevenLabs ships through small, autonomous pods — moving quickly, running experiments (like pricing + paywalls), and holding teams accountable to what actually improves the user experience.👋 LinkedIn🚀 Mobile Growth Lead, ElevenReader 📱 Jack McDermott leads mobile growth for ElevenReader, ElevenLabs’ consumer app that turns PDFs, articles, and books into lifelike audio — powered by a massive catalog of high-quality voices. He breaks down how ElevenLabs uses earned media to amplify paid performance, why launches start with the “tweet thread” narrative, and how simplifying pricing (selling listening time instead of tokens) can dramatically improve consumer conversion.👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] Why consumers won’t pay in “tokens” — they pay in outcomes[2:13] The case for building consumer apps and an API (without competing with customers)[4:10] ElevenLabs’ operating system: 10–12 “speedboat” pods shipping in parallel[7:20] The Canva spin-out lesson: award-winning product ≠ distribution or retention[12:07] Monetization that matches intent: “hours of listening” vs creator credits[13:30] Two growth modes at once: compounding earned-media launches + steady paid UA[16:27] Why earned media makes paid cheaper (branded search + trust lift)[19:30] The launch playbook: write the Twitter thread first → turn it into a video[32:20] “Speed is the moat” — and how they avoid shipping gimmicks[36:57] Don’t copy Spotify Wrapped — find your product’s natural shareable moment[43:31] ElevenReader’s “aha”: bring your own PDF/ebook + pick a voice worth sharing[56:58] Biggest fail: over-optimizing onboarding instead of testing the “strip it back” base case

Why Your Free Users Are Your Real Growth Engine – Cem Kansu, Duolingo CPO

On the podcast, I talk with Cem about the premium trap many apps fall into, why free trials work even for freemium products, and how ‘try for $0.00’ actually outperforms ‘try for free’.Top Takeaways:💡 Protect the free moat — always Short-term revenue tricks like paywalling free features make metrics spike — then stall. Sustainable freemium growth depends on preserving free value. It’s not just ethical; it’s strategic. Pulling back too much invites competitors to offer what you took away, weakening both your brand and your growth loop.🧪 A/B test relentlessly — but know when to lead with intuition Testing is essential, but not infallible. With 400+ experiments running at once, you’ll often see trade-offs between revenue and user experience. The art of product management is knowing when to ignore short-term data and make the long-term call that preserves user trust and helps achieve strategic goals.🔁 Freemium is a growth engine, not a trade-off Your free users aren’t freeloaders — they’re your marketing engine. When you improve the free experience, you strengthen organic growth through word of mouth. Growth slows when you nickel-and-dime; it compounds when you delight.💰 Monetize with empathy, not extraction Introducing monetization requires a cultural shift. The key is measuring everything — retention, reviews, complaints per DAU — and optimizing for user experience, not just ARPU. Test cautiously, communicate transparently, and say no to anything that erodes trust.🧠 Build for everyone, not a persona In large-scale apps, personas can be counterproductive. People learn, play, and engage for wildly different reasons. Designing for inclusivity and broad appeal helps scale from millions to billions of users without alienating key segments.💡 Strategic and Creative Use of Ads Ads at Duolingo were introduced carefully with the goal of balancing monetization with a positive user experience. The focus is on surfacing ads at non-intrusive moments, such as after completing a lesson, and on carefully controlling ad content. Duolingo even partners with advertisers to integrate elements of Duolingo branding into third-party ads. About Cem Kansu:🚀Chief Product Officer at Duolingo📱 Cem Kansu is the former VP of Product at Duolingo, where he led the company’s monetization strategy, introducing ads and subscriptions that turned Duolingo into a sustainable business. With deep expertise in product development and user experience, he helped grow subscriptions to over 80% of revenue, while keeping the core product free and mission-driven.👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] Cem discusses balancing profitability with long-term goals[0:36] Duolingo’s first monetization strategy: ads[2:02] The pivot from crowdsourcing translations to new monetization models[3:49] Streak repair as Duolingo’s first in-app purchase experiment[5:43] Shifting company culture to embrace monetization[7:20] The influence of investors on Duolingo’s monetization[8:00] Introducing ads without harming user experience[10:31] Handling user complaints and data-driven adjustments[12:07] Ensuring ad quality through strict control[13:53] Direct ad partnerships to improve user experience[16:30] Ads vs subscription: monetization strategy decision[18:43] The impact of free trials on subscription growth[20:22] Evolution of Duolingo’s subscription offerings[22:39] Adding features like offline learning and ad-free experiences[24:22] Pivoting from separate apps to integrating topics in one[26:43] Overcoming design challenges to fit new topics[28:55] Duolingo’s competition with other screen time apps[32:00] Leveraging AI to enhance the language learning experience[35:18] The role of AI in Duolingo’s growth[37:32] Balancing free vs paid features for growth[40:24] Decisions on adding/removing premium features[43:35] Lessons from the failed human tutor feature[45:10] Challenges in scaling a large product like Duolingo[47:12] Long-term growth focus and user base expansion[49:30] Design, testing, and iteration at Duolingo[54:10] Ongoing improvements in learning efficacy and retention[57:15] Duolingo’s future plans and expansion goals

How a Single Paywall Experiment Generated $50M – Jeff Morris, Chapter One, Ex-Tinder

On the podcast, I talk with Jeff about Tinder's $50 million paywall win. Why now is such a great time to build apps, and how hard paywalls can mislead you about product-market fit.Top Takeaways:💡 Focus on Product-Market Fit First Before jumping into monetization, ensure your product truly resonates with users. Building a product that solves a real problem and captures genuine interest is the foundation for sustainable growth. Once you achieve product-market fit, monetization becomes a natural extension.🛠 Monetization Strategies Are Evolving Founders are being pushed to monetize early, but the key is to test different models and find what works for your user base. Experimenting with subscription tiers and paywalls can unlock new revenue streams while preserving a great user experience. This flexibility is crucial in today’s competitive app landscape.🚀 Experimentation is the Key to Success The most successful apps are built through continuous experimentation and iteration. Constantly testing new ideas—whether in pricing, features, or user engagement tactics—helps you learn and adapt quickly. Fail fast, adjust, and keep pushing forward.📊 Data-Driven Decisions Over Gut Instincts Rely on data to make smarter decisions, especially when it comes to monetization and growth strategies. Properly instrumenting your app and analyzing user behavior gives you the insights needed to refine your approach. Data-driven decisions remove the guesswork and lead to more reliable outcomes.💬 User Feedback Drives Innovation Your users are the best source of inspiration. Listening to their feedback and adjusting your app based on real-world experience will improve your product and increase retention. The more connected you are to your community, the more likely your app will evolve in the right direction.🔑 The Importance of Sustainable Growth Building a successful app requires more than just an initial win. To scale sustainably, it’s essential to focus on long-term user value and avoid over-monetizing too early. By balancing user experience with growth strategies, you can achieve steady, lasting success.About Jeff Morris:🚀 Founder and General Partner at Chapter One.📱 Jeff Morris is the former VP of Product at Tinder, where he played a key role in driving the app’s revenue and user growth. As a venture capitalist, Jeff invests in early-stage companies developing products that resonate deeply with users. His expertise spans product development, monetization strategies, and scaling businesses in competitive markets.👋 LinkedIn👋 Follow Jeff Morris on X - @jmjJeff’s “controversial” X post🌎 The New Internet Follow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights:[0:00] Jeff Morris’ background and expertise at Tinder[2:20] Monetization vs. product building: A founder’s shift in focus[4:53] Celebrating early revenue: Real or just hype?[6:08] Freemium model: Boosting user engagement and retention[9:01] Monetization strategies across app categories[11:51] The venture landscape in 2025: Challenges & opportunities[13:05] Why it’s still a great time to build mobile apps[14:48] Creating a sustainable subscription model[17:27] Early-stage AI startups: New monetization opportunities[19:20] Tinder’s journey with pricing and packaging experiments[22:02] The success of Tinder’s three-tier subscription model[24:41] Balancing user experience with monetization[26:45] The role of testing and iteration in revenue decisions[29:40] Why revenue optimization needs constant attention[31:53] The impact of paywall features on conversion[33:54] The power of design in driving revenue and engagement[36:21] The future of mobile and AI-native apps[39:11] Scaling a mobile app in 2025: Key lessons for founders[42:45] How funding partners shape your product vision[44:21] The role of feedback loops in creative growth[47:30] What Jeff would have done differently at Tinder[50:11] Key takeaways from building and scaling a high-growth product[54:45] User-centric design: Why monetization should never come first

Creative Misfires, False Positives, and Meta's Auction Flaws — Alper Taner, Stealth-Mode App Studio

On the podcast, I talk with Alper about the competitive advantage of ignoring (some) best practices, the risk of drawing false conclusions when researching competitor ads, and why poor metrics are just facts until proven problematic.Top Takeaways:📊 Challenge Best Practices Test what works for your app and market, even if it goes against common advice. Adapt best practices to your data and current stage.💡 Facts vs. Problems Low trial conversions aren’t always a problem—sometimes they’re just a fact of your setup. Only treat them as a problem after you’ve tested and ruled out other factors.🎯 Quality Over Quantity in Creative Testing It’s not about testing hundreds of creatives—it’s about testing fewer, but with stronger hypotheses. Focus on creative iterations that drive high success rates, not just metrics.⚖️ Strategic Control of Spend Set guardrails and adjust bids based on performance. Test spend limits, but always maintain control over your budget and its allocation.💬 Be Inspired Learn from competitors, but don’t mimic their exact strategies. Customize based on your own data and target audience.🔍 Instrument Your Data RightAccurate data is key. Whether it’s MMP, in-app analytics, or creative performance, ensure you interpret results accurately to drive better decisions and scale effectively.About Alper Taner:🚀 Head of Performance Marketing at a stealth-mode app studio.📱 With over 10 years in mobile growth, Alper drives user acquisition and marketing tech strategies, managing 8-figure budgets. He’s known for challenging conventional marketing practices and leveraging data to fuel growth.👋 LinkedInFollow us on X: David Barnard - @drbarnardJacob Eiting - @jeitingRevenueCat - @RevenueCatSubClub - @SubClubHQEpisode Highlights: [0:00] Introduction to Alper Taner and his mobile growth expertise[1:39] Why challenging best practices and testing your own data is crucial[5:04] Poor metrics are facts, not problems[8:10] Creative testing: Focus on quality and strong hypotheses, not just quantity[12:00] Set spend guardrails and control budget allocation for better results[15:30] Learn from competitors, but don’t copy their strategies blindly[19:10] Accurate data is key: instrument it right for smarter decisions[22:18] Small event mapping changes can lead to significant performance boosts[27:00] Don’t shy away from unconventional strategies[32:45] Iteration is key for creative optimization[37:20] Manage budget thresholds in creative testing to avoid overspending[41:00] Understand platform algorithms and guide them to work for you[46:00] Use guardrails and budget caps to control spend while optimizing performance[49:50] Balance risk and experimentation with data-backed decision-making[54:05] Retention and user behavior drive long-term growth[58:00] Key lessons from creative testing: Adjust based on results[1:00:30] Mixing creativity with data is the key to optimized user acquisition