Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

Joshua, America, and the Myth of Innocence: Undoing Manifest Destiny (Daniel Hawk)

Was America founded as a “new Israel”? And if so, what happens when biblical conquest narratives are used to justify colonization, displacement, and violence? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer speaks with Dr. Daniel Hawk, professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at Ashland Theological Seminary and author of Undoing Manifest Destiny: Settler America, Christian Colonists, and the Pursuit of Justice, about how Christian theology became entangled with the American settler story—and why that story now needs to be reexamined. Drawing on decades of Old Testament scholarship, especially his work on the Book of Joshua, Daniel Hawk explains how biblical narratives meant to form Israel’s identity were gradually transformed into templates for empire in the American imagination. Early Christian colonists interpreted their arrival in the New World through conquest theology—believing God had given them the land and authorized the dispossession of Indigenous peoples. Over time, this reading hardened into a powerful civil religion, blending Christian language with national mythology. James and Daniel explore how Manifest Destiny functioned as a theological story—one that framed American expansion as divinely sanctioned while masking injustice behind a “myth of innocence.” They discuss how the Exodus and conquest narratives were selectively used to legitimize political freedom and territorial expansion, while conveniently excluding Scripture’s deep moral critique of power, violence, and covenant unfaithfulness. The conversation also addresses the enduring effects of settler colonialism—not merely as a historical event, but as a set of social, economic, and cultural structures that continue shaping American life. Daniel argues that unresolved colonial sin damages everyone: Indigenous communities who bear the weight of dispossession and trauma, and white Christians whose imaginations have been warped by unexamined dominance and control. Rather than assigning blame, Hawk calls Christians to a posture of discipleship, humility, and repentance. Undoing the settler narrative begins with learning local histories, listening to Indigenous voices, and allowing uncomfortable truths to challenge long-held assumptions. Healing, he suggests, requires telling the whole story—without mythologizing the past or silencing pain. James and Daniel also reflect on the role of globalization, modern capitalism, and environmental exploitation as ongoing echoes of colonial logic, as well as Daniel’s work with the First Nations Version Bible translation project—an effort to hear Scripture through Indigenous linguistic and cultural frameworks. This episode invites Christians to ask hard questions: How should Scripture shape our understanding of land, power, and justice? What does repentance look like at a communal level? And how might the church become an agent of reconciliation rather than a guardian of national mythology? Topics include: The Book of Joshua and Christian identity Manifest Destiny as civil religion How biblical narratives were misused to justify colonization Settler colonialism vs. other forms of empire The “myth of innocence” in American history Structural sin and enduring injustice Listening to Indigenous voices and histories Discipleship, repentance, and reconciliation Christianity beyond nationalism You can get Undoing Manifest Destiny: Settler America, Christian Colonists, and the Pursuit of Justice at ivpress.com (use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount) Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. 📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation! This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Christian Business Without Compartmentalization: Faith, Success, and Surrender (Andrea Anderson)

Can Christians pursue success in business without sidelining their faith—or turning God into just another “box” in life? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer sits down with Andrea Anderson, Christian business coach and author of Bread Like Rain, to talk about surrendered strategy, discipleship, and what it really means to follow Christ in entrepreneurial work. Andrea shares her journey from cultural Christianity to atheism and agnosticism—and eventually to a living faith shaped by loss, prayer, and God’s persistent pursuit. Her move into life coaching and consulting didn’t come from a desire to optimize productivity alone, but from a deeper question: How do I help people experience lasting, eternal transformation rather than temporary fixes? Drawing from her work with Christian business owners, Andrea explains why many leaders experience recurring chaos despite good intentions: self-reliance and control quietly replace trust in God. The solution isn’t better tactics at ground level, but a top-down reordering—learning to ask what the Lord is saying and aligning vision, strategy, and identity accordingly. When leaders build from misalignment, results never last. When they build from surrender, fruit endures. James and Andrea explore how discipleship must shape leadership, why faith cannot be compartmentalized into “God,” “work,” and “family” boxes, and how obedience opens our eyes to what God is already doing. They also discuss the dangers of redefining success apart from God’s purposes—where profitability, health, relationships, and obedience must be held together rather than traded off against one another. The conversation touches on prayer, listening for God’s voice, and why many Christians struggle to slow down spiritually: not because they don’t know prayer matters, but because they doubt they can actually hear God. Andrea introduces the idea of a “faith optimization gap”—the distance between what we know and what we truly believe—and how that gap quietly shapes decisions, priorities, and burnout. Finally, Andrea offers a candid reflection on the modern church: discipleship requires more than encouragement and affirmation. True love includes correction, accountability, and refining relationships shaped by Christ—not cultural comfort. Topics include: From organizing spaces to organizing lives under Christ Why self-reliance creates recurring chaos in leadership Faith, profitability, and God’s definition of success Compartmentalization vs. surrendered discipleship Prayer as communion, not a spiritual checklist Hearing God’s voice in daily decisions Church discipline, accountability, and real community Bread Like Rain and Andrea’s upcoming book, Rock Solid Business You can find out more about Andrea at https://andrealeighco.com. Here book Bread Like Rain is available here. Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. 📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation! This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Acedia, Purgation, and Faith That Lasts: God in the Desert (Noelle Forlini-Byrte)

What do you do when faith feels dry, confusing, or emotionally barren—when God seems absent, or even uncomfortably near? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Noelle Forlini-Byrte, author of God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament and part-time lecturer at Samford University, about the wilderness as a spiritual landscape for real Christians living real lives. Noelle shares how this book was “twenty years in the making,” beginning with her first spiritual formation class and early encounters with the mystics—especially St. John of the Cross and the theme of God’s “dark night” and felt absence. Those questions followed her into doctoral work in the Old Testament, where narratives like Jacob wrestling at the Jabbok, the exile, and Israel’s wilderness wanderings became a rich theological map for suffering, disorientation, and divine encounter. James and Noelle explore why the church often defaults to two unhealthy extremes: shallow, pithy “application” divorced from biblical context—or scholarship so clinical that it leaves the soul malnourished. Noelle argues that liturgy and scholarship must belong together: rigorous exegesis should not be an escape from spiritual formation, and devotional practices should not ignore the actual meaning of the text. The goal is not information alone, but a scripture-shaped life where God excavates the soul. Along the way, they discuss difficult Old Testament passages without smoothing out their discomfort—especially the wilderness as a place of testing (Deuteronomy 8) and purgation (Hosea 2). Noelle draws on the Christian mystical tradition to describe purgation as the stripping away of “self-made props,” the idolatries and illusions that quietly sustain us until wilderness exposes what we truly trust. One of the most resonant themes is acedia—the “noonday demon” from the desert tradition: spiritual weariness, malaise, and the temptation to give up when faith becomes costly and daily life grinds us down. James connects acedia to midlife, family pressures, and the subtle exhaustion that comes not from one tragedy, but from “death by a thousand cuts.” Noelle suggests that the very presence of these questions can be a sign of a deeper, weathered faith—because wilderness presupposes we are actually walking with God. The conversation closes with a challenge for the church today: humility, honest questions, and a willingness to let Scripture form us rather than simply confirm us. Faithful discipleship requires more than confidence—it requires wakefulness and the courage to bring our real lives before God. You can get God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament at ivpress.com (use code IVPPOD20 for a 20% discount) Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. 📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation! Topics include: Why wilderness is a central biblical image for spiritual formation God’s felt absence vs. God’s “hyper-presence” The danger of devotionals without exegesis—and scholarship without soul Hagar, exile, and uncomfortable honesty in biblical narratives Deuteronomy 8 and forgetting God in prosperity Hosea 2 and purgation: God stripping away false securities Acedia and spiritual weariness in midlife and modern discipleship Humility, honest prayer, and faith that can handle “why” questions This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The Listening Church: Loneliness, Mental Health, and the Skills Every Christian Needs (Dr. Jackie E. Perry)

What if a major driver of today’s mental health crisis isn’t simply “more disorders,” but more people who feel unseen, unheard, and alone? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Jackie E. Perry—Clinical Supervisor, Professor of Counselor Education at Columbia International University, and President of the Soulwell Center—about loneliness, the loss of emotional connection, and why the church must recover the skill of attuned listening. Jackie explains how the Soulwell Center began: while teaching counselor “helping skills,” she realized many of those relational tools could be taught in a lay-friendly way to parents, pastors, and everyday Christians. The result is a training approach that combines practical listening techniques with the neuroscience of relationships—equipping people to hold a safe space where others can feel truly “seen and known.” James and Jackie discuss a trend Jackie has observed across decades in the mental health field: in the last 10–15 years, more clients have been coming not primarily with severe pathology, but because they don’t have anyone who listens. Therapy becomes a paid place of connection—something that should not be rare in Christian community. The conversation explores how technology can create distance (including the rise of AI-mediated communication), why many people lack a “mental model” for deep listening, and how shame and perceived “threat” can make relational closeness feel unsafe. Jackie introduces the concept of “eyes of delight”—the nonverbal experience of being attended to with warmth—and explains why nonverbal presence often does more than words. They also connect listening to the broader formation of disciples: without embodied, relational connection, people drift into isolation, cope through substitutes, and struggle to develop distress tolerance—the ability to endure discomfort and stay engaged through conflict, hardship, and the messiness of real relationships. The result is not only loneliness, but fragility and retreat from vocation, mission, and spiritual maturity. In the end, Jackie offers a simple but demanding vision: the church must become a community that can listen across difference and reflect the “eyes of Christ.” That kind of faithful presence is not optional—it is essential for discipleship, mental health, and a credible Christian witness today. Topics include: Soulwell Center’s mission and the “listening course” Loneliness, mental health, and why therapy becomes a substitute for community “Eyes of delight” and the neuroscience of connection Shame, vulnerability, and why being known can feel threatening Nonverbal communication and why presence matters Distress tolerance, overprotection, and the formation of resilient adults What the church must recover to make faithful disciples You can purchase Heart Cries of Every Teen here. For more information onf the Soulwell Center visit www.thesoulwellcenter.com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God: www.usefultogod.com To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. 📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation! This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The Legacy of the Reformation: Freedom, Fragmentation, and Accountability

In this final episode of our German Reformation series, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Greg Quiggle step back from the 16th century to ask a pressing modern question: what does it actually mean to be Protestant today—and what have we gained (and lost) since the Reformation? Greg frames Protestantism with a memorable realism: it isn’t perfect—it’s the “least problematic” of the major options(Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism). From there, the conversation explores Protestantism’s strengths—Scripture in the common language, broad engagement with the Bible, the dignity and responsibility of ordinary believers, and the freedom to test tradition against God’s Word—while also naming the hazards that come with that freedom. James and Greg dig into one of the central tensions of modern Protestant life: authority without a pope must still include accountability. The Reformation wasn’t a call for every individual to interpret Scripture with equal authority; it assumed a teaching office and depended on catechesis to form faithful readers. But in today’s digital ecosystem—where influence is often determined by charisma, algorithms, and audience-size—Protestantism can drift into fragmentation, echo chambers, and “pastor-as-pope” dynamics inside independent churches. This episode also turns practical and pastoral: how should Christians live faithfully amid online outrage cycles, misinformation, and slander—especially when “everyone is a publisher”? Greg and James connect these issues to biblical ethics (truth-telling, false witness) and to the urgent need to rebuild theological formation in the local church. In this conversation, you’ll hear about: Why Protestantism is a “best worst” option—and why that matters The strengths of Protestant diversity (and why it’s also dangerous) Why the teaching office matters—and what happens when it collapses How the loss of catechism has weakened Protestant interpretation The modern digital “echo chamber” problem and credibility collapse Why truth, slander, and false witness apply directly to social media Practical next steps: near-term wisdom + long-term formation Quotelos Travel offers small, expert-led “Tours for Ten” that provide an intimate and unforgettable way to explore church history and culture with guides who truly know the locations. Learn more at quotelostravelservice.com, and check out their upcoming trips to Germany, England, and Switzerland. Subscribe to our YouTube channel 🔗 Download a free resource "Making Everyday Decisions So That God Gets the Glory" from Useful to God:www.usefultogod.com To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. 📢 Stay Connected & Keep Growing! If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to Thinking Christian so you never miss an insightful conversation! This episode is sponsored by Trinity Debt Management. “Whether we’re helping people pay off their unsecured debt or offering assistance to those behind in their mortgage payments, Trinity has the knowledge and resources to make a difference. Our intention is to help people become debt-free, and most importantly, remain debt-free for keeps!" If your debt has you down, we should talk. Call us at 1-800-793-8548 | https://trinitycredit.org/ Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.