Divergent States

Cesar Marin: Microdosing, Midlife, and Reinvention

What happens when a 25-year career at CNN ends — and a new life begins?In this episode of Divergent States, we talk with Cesar Marin, former CNN producer and founder of Microdosing Over 50, about how psychedelics helped him navigate midlife, identity loss, and personal reinvention.Cesar shares his journey from broadcast media to becoming an advocate for intentional microdosing later in life. We explore the difference between microdosing for healing vs optimization, how intention shapes outcomes, and why people over 50 face unique integration challenges.We also discuss: • Microdosing psilocybin vs LSD • Career loss and psychedelic-driven reinvention • Presence, connection, and integration practices • How media shapes psychedelic narratives • Why midlife may be the most powerful time for change • Healing vs performance framing in psychedelic use • Stigma, legality, and education • Building a mission-driven life after burnoutThis conversation is about more than substances — it’s about agency, curiosity, and what happens when you stop outsourcing your meaning.🎧 Extended version available on Patreon🎓 Zendo Project peer-support training: use code DIVERGENTS10 🧠 For listeners interested in microdosing, midlife transitions, and psychedelic culturehttps://cultivatingwisdom.net/⏱️ Chapter Markers00:00 – Introduction & Cesar’s background 01:45 – 25 years at CNN and getting laid off 04:30 – Discovering psychedelics at 55 06:40 – Cultivating Wisdom & microdosing over 50 10:15 – Loss, grief, and mission-driven work 13:10 – What shifted personally 17:45 – Early doubts and first psychedelic experience 22:23 – Fun vs healing: why people stay 22:41 – How media shaped his psychedelic voice 26:13 – Bad headlines and stigma 28:26 – Why storytelling matters 29:18 – Midlife fear and reinvention 32:12 – “It’s not almost over — it’s just starting” 33:18 – Integration for older adults 37:55 – Meditation, presence, and connection 39:13 – Healing vs optimization 43:45 – Microdosing LSD vs psilocybin 46:36 – Psychedelic commercialization 47:47 – Public episode wrap-up 48:31 – Post-interview reflections 50:05 – Bryan’s takeaway 52:11 – Healing vs optimization framing 54:17 – Outro & Patreon plugSend us a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Shane Mauss: How Psychedelics Actually Change the Mind

What really happens when psychedelics change someone, and why do some people come back grounded while others spiral into ego, conspiracy, or spiritual bypassing?In this long-form conversation, comedian and science-minded psychonaut Shane Mauss joins Divergent States for a deep dive into what psychedelics do to the human mind beneath the mystical language. Drawing on neuroscience, cognitive bias, evolutionary psychology, and lived psychedelic experience, Shane explains how substances like LSD, mushrooms, and DMT increase mental plasticity, loosen rigid categories, and open the brain to new ways of thinking — for better and for worse.Together, we explore why altered states can lead to creativity, healing, and insight, but also why they can just as easily fuel delusion, conspiracy thinking, and inflated ego. We talk about the placebo effect, Dunning-Kruger, belief formation, and how access to infinite information can make people feel like they know everything while understanding very little. Shane also shares candid stories from inside the psychedelic comedy world, including how Tales From the Trip was secretly launched at Comedy Central, why he’s uneasy about the current psychedelic “gold rush,” and how mainstream acceptance has changed the culture.This episode isn’t about chasing cosmic secrets or mystical narratives. It’s about how the mind actually works — and how psychedelics can either help us become more open, curious, and flexible, or lock us deeper into fantasy if we don’t know how to think critically about what we experience.If you care about psychedelics, consciousness, and staying grounded in reality while exploring extraordinary states, this conversation is for you.Shane's new special comes out 2/18 on ShaneMauss.com!Special thanks to Drip who did the music, check him out on Spotify and Soundcloud! 00:00 — Season 2 Opening 04:18 — From Stand-Up to Science 07:40 — Creating Psychedelic Theater 11:40 — Why Psychedelic Comedy Was Taboo 14:50 — Tales From the Trip Origin Story 19:20 — Why He Doesn’t Feel Like a Regular Comic 23:40 — Comedy as Tension and Truth 34:00 — George Carlin and Big-Idea Comedy 38:20 — Psychedelics Going Mainstream 41:00 — Skeptical Psychonauts 45:20 — Seeing the Dark Side of the Scene 47:45 — Psychedelics, Categorization, and the Brain 51:30 — The Crunchy-to-Conservative Pipeline 54:00 — Dunning-Kruger and Illusions of Knowledge 57:10 — Why Science Is Counterintuitive 01:02:40 — Why These Conversations Matter Send us a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Inside Season Two: Integration, Not Escapism

Season Two of Divergent States is about something simple and surprisingly rare: exploring altered states without losing touch with reality.In this preview episode, 3L1T3 and Bryan share two short moments from upcoming conversations that define the tone of the season ahead.In the first, Shane Mauss reflects on how psychedelics open people to awe—but also to certainty, conspiracies, and belief systems that can replace reality if no one pushes back. In the second, Cesar Marin explains why presence and human connection are the real work of integration, not endless chasing of peak experiences.Together, these moments capture what Divergent States has always tried to do: hold space for wonder without drifting into delusion, depth without losing grounding, and exploration rooted in real human connection.Patreon supporters get extended versions of these conversations, including sections that don’t survive algorithm-friendly edits. But this preview is here for everyone—because harm reduction, presence, and honest conversation shouldn’t be paywalled.Welcome to Season Two.Chapters00:00 – Welcome back & season context Introducing Season Two and why this year matters.00:28 – What Divergent States actually isWhat the show is: harm reduction, not hype or spiritual theater.01:05 – Shane Mauss: Awe, science, and belief systems The “ghost crocodile” and microscope analogy.04:49 – Why psychedelics create both insight and delusionReflections on pattern-seeking and certainty in psychedelic spaces.05:20 – Cesar Marin: Presence as integration Connection, mushrooms, and staying grounded in real life.07:17 – The power of daily human connection Kids, texts, meditation, and showing up.08:55 – What Divergent States is really about Awe without delusion; depth without losing touch.09:15 – Patreon & how to support the show Extended cuts, deeper conversations, and why it matters.10:10 – Harm reduction & Zendo Project Why we partner with them and what the code supports.10:50 – Closing & Season Two welcome Personal sign-off and transition into the new season.Send us a textFiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Dennis McKenna: Nature, AI, and the Collapse of Separation

Dennis McKenna joins 3L1T3 and Valerie Beltran to discuss the future of psychedelics, indigenous knowledge, and whether we are ready to bring these tools into mainstream culture without repeating the extractive patterns of the past. We explore the gap between good intentions and real reciprocity, what Western psychedelic enthusiasm is missing, and how community-based practice may matter more than clinical models alone.We also dive into the first biomedical study of ayahuasca with the UDV, how long-term members showed surprising changes in behavior and biology, and why the community structure may have played a larger role than the compound itself. Dennis talks about the work happening at the McKenna Academy, preserving Amazonian herbarium collections, digitizing ancestral plant knowledge, and the ESPD Symposia.This conversation calls out the cultural side of psychedelics, not just the science. If psychedelics are going to help, they must be integrated with wisdom, not just technology.Join our Patreon for the exclusive extended interview!Key PointsPsychedelics entered global awareness through indigenous stewardship, not Western inventionReciprocity requires more than money and acknowledgmentThe ESPD Symposia preserve ethnobotanical knowledge and make it publicEfforts to digitize herbarium collections in Peru before they are lostChapters00:00 Welcome to the season finale with Valerie01:10 Who Dennis McKenna is and why he still matters04:50 What still feels unresolved after 50 years06:15 Co-optation, capitalism, and indigenous knowledge09:00 The ESPD symposia and preserving ancestral knowledge12:40 Biognosis and digitizing Amazonian herbarium archives17:00 Why preserving knowledge matters more than artifacts18:35 The first biomedical study of ayahuasca with the UDV22:45 Behavioral change, alcoholism, and community support24:40 Serotonin transporter findings and biological mechanisms27:30 Neuroplasticity and long-term structural change31:00 Microdosing vs macro experiences33:20 Default mode network and stepping outside the self36:20 Separation from nature and cultural disconnection38:30 Technology, AI, and cultural fragmentation42:20 What real reciprocity might look like46:50 Avoiding cultural appropriation and extraction50:00 Psychedelics entering clinical models52:45 Mushrooms as ideal symbiotic partners56:00 Future of psychedelics in 10 years01:00:20 Ibogaine as global brain reset01:04:00 Evolution, partnership, and species symbiosis01:06:00 Closing thoughts Thanks to Dyl👽Alien for the music! Send us a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Betty Aldworth: MAPS, MDMA, and the Battle Over Psychedelic Medicine

In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 sits down with Betty Aldworth, the new co-president of MAPS, as she steps into shared leadership with Ismail Ali following Rick Doblin’s four-decade run.Betty brings decades of experience in drug policy reform, from Colorado’s 2012 cannabis legalization campaign to leading Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and now helps guide MAPS through one of the movement’s most pivotal moments: the FDA’s rejection of Lycos Therapeutics’ MDMA-assisted therapy application.We unpack the tension between science and advocacy, urgency and rigor, and explore what real access means for people living with PTSD. Betty offers a candid, emotionally grounded look at the FDA’s critique, the role of stigma, and how MAPS plans to keep pushing forward through education, policy, and global research initiatives.Later, the conversation turns to the larger movement: political support from both sides of the aisle, state-level reform models, and MAPS’ upcoming 40th anniversary in 2026.Key PointsBetty’s path from SSDP to co-president of MAPSThe FDA’s rejection of MDMA-assisted therapy: what it really meansHow “positive adverse events” became a sticking point in the FDA reviewDurability of treatment effects and the debate over long-term dataBalancing activism, science, and education under MAPS’ new leadership modelThe growing divide between regulatory caution and patient urgencyGrassroots and state-level psychedelic reform gaining groundThe stigma that still shadows MDMA despite decades of dataHarm-reduction advice for those seeking underground healingWhat’s ahead for MAPS’ 40th anniversary and new research directions⏱ Chapter Markers00:00 – Intro — Bryan’s stage play, today’s guest: Betty Aldworth02:00 – MAPS’ new leadership and legacy after Rick Doblin05:00 – Betty on stepping into the role and the three MAPS pillars08:00 – From activism to leadership — lessons from SSDP11:45 – Balancing research, advocacy, and education14:00 – FDA rejection letter — what really happened16:00 – “Positive adverse events” and the question of abuse potential22:30 – Durability of treatment and COVID-era data gaps26:30 – Prior MDMA experience and bias — myth or factor?29:20 – Politics, science, and the credibility dilemma32:30 – RFK Jr., AOC, and politicization of psychedelics35:00 – Echoes of the 1980s scheduling fight36:20 – What comes next — Phase III, audits, and resilience38:30 – MAPS’ evolving research priorities & global work41:00 – Normalization, decriminalization, and stigma43:45 – Science vs activism — carrying both forward48:00 – State-level reform and slow federal process50:30 – Cannabis rescheduling and broader reform52:00 – A message to people living with PTSD55:00 – MAPS’ 40th anniversary — what’s ahead57:00 – Closing reflections — stay weird, keep exploringThanks to Dyl👽Alien for the music!Send us a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod