Divergent States

Wade Davis: From Sacred Leaf to Global Scapegoat

In Part One of The Many Faces of Coca, 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Wade Davis to unpack the long history of the coca leaf and how a plant used for over 8,000 years became globally criminalized.This conversation isn’t about cocaine. It’s about coca.Wade walks us through:How coca was independently domesticated multiple times in pre-Columbian South AmericaWhy early 20th-century elites blamed coca for poverty instead of confronting inequalityThe 1949 UN commission that arrived with its conclusions already writtenThe nutritional research that challenged decades of ideologyHow the modern international scheduling framework still treats coca as if it were fentanyl or heroinWhy the recent WHO review maintained the status quo — and what that meansWe also explore the deeper cultural reality: coca as ritual exchange, spiritual alignment, social glue, and daily sustenance in the Andes.This episode lays the foundation for the series.Next, we move into the ethnobiology with Dennis McKenna.Then we examine sovereignty and lived realities with Manuela Picq.If you’ve ever wondered why coca gets ignored while other plant medicines dominate Western discourse, this is where we start pulling that thread.This isn’t nostalgia.It’s about policy, ideology, and whether a plant can be separated from the story told about it.Key PointsCoca has been used for over 8,000 years in the Andes, distinct from cocaine.Cocaine is an extracted alkaloid; the leaf itself functions very differently.Coca was independently domesticated three times in pre-Columbian South America.The leaf contains significant nutritional value (calcium, vitamins, protein) and aids digestion at altitude.Early 20th-century elites blamed coca for poverty and social issues instead of structural inequality.The 1949 UN commission formed conclusions before conducting meaningful investigation.The 1961 UN drug scheduling framework still reflects that early ideological bias.Coca plays a central spiritual and social role in Andean cultures (ritual exchange, prayer, daily labor).Prohibition has fueled violence, displacement, and environmental harm in coca-growing regions.The core policy question is political, not pharmacological: can coca be separated from cocaine in law and narrative?Chapters 00:00 – 8,000 Years of Coca 04:19 – What Is Coca? 08:22 – Traditional Use & Preparation 14:36 – The 1949 UN Commission 23:10 – Drug War Consequences 29:23 – Coca as Cultural Foundation 33:40 – Why There’s No Public Constituency 43:35 – Coca vs Cocaine Extraction 46:00 – DEA, Cartels & Prohibition Incentives 50:47 – If You Remember One Thing 53:10 – Reflection & Series Preview Send a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

ETEREO: What No One Tells You About Iboga Work

Iboga has a reputation.It’s intense. It’s long. It carries real risk. And for some people, it’s life-changing.But what actually happens inside a retreat container? And what does this work look like behind the scenes?In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Paije West and Fletcher Burdick, founders of ETEREO, an iboga retreat center in Baja, Mexico. Their approach sits somewhere between medical oversight and traditional ceremony, which opens up some thoughtful questions about safety, responsibility, integration, and how we talk about powerful medicines without turning them into mythology.This isn’t a hype piece.It’s a grounded conversation about:• The difference between iboga and ibogaine • Cardiac risk and how they screen for it • Why they sometimes say “no” • What ceremony actually does (beyond aesthetics) • Whether luxury retreat settings help or distract • Why integration matters more than most people think • And whether the field might be moving a little too fastWe talk about neuroplasticity, structure vs freedom, tradition vs extraction, and what’s still unknown about iboga.If you’re curious about the medicine — or about how people try to hold it responsibly — this one’s worth your time.The extended, more personal segment continues on Patreon.Chapter Markers00:00 – Introducing Bryan & Why This Conversation Matters 02:00 – Framing the Episode: No Miracle Claims 03:15 – What ETEREO Is (In Plain Language) 07:00 – What an Iboga Retreat Looks Like 11:20 – Iboga vs Ibogaine 14:30 – Ceremony: Structure, Not Symbolism 16:30 – Neuroplasticity & Set and Setting 17:40 – Who Iboga Is Not For 21:30 – Safety & Medical Screening 24:30 – Small Groups vs High-Volume Clinics 25:30 – “Conscious Luxury” — Does It Help? 29:00 – Stepping Away from the Real World 30:00 – Why Integration Is Everything 32:00 – Relational Healing 35:00 – Why They Don’t Track Outcomes Like Clinics 36:10 – Incentives & Avoiding Extraction 39:10 – Is the Field Moving Too Fast? 40:00 – What We Still Don’t Know About Iboga 41:30 – Final Reflections 42:00 – Patreon Segment Tease 44:50 – Closing Thoughts 🎧 Extended version available on Patreon🎓 Zendo Project peer-support training: use code DIVERGENTS10Send a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Cesar Marin: Microdosing, Midlife, and Reinvention

What happens when a 25-year career at CNN ends — and a new life begins?In this episode of Divergent States, we talk with Cesar Marin, former CNN producer and founder of Microdosing Over 50, about how psychedelics helped him navigate midlife, identity loss, and personal reinvention.Cesar shares his journey from broadcast media to becoming an advocate for intentional microdosing later in life. We explore the difference between microdosing for healing vs optimization, how intention shapes outcomes, and why people over 50 face unique integration challenges.We also discuss: • Microdosing psilocybin vs LSD • Career loss and psychedelic-driven reinvention • Presence, connection, and integration practices • How media shapes psychedelic narratives • Why midlife may be the most powerful time for change • Healing vs performance framing in psychedelic use • Stigma, legality, and education • Building a mission-driven life after burnoutThis conversation is about more than substances — it’s about agency, curiosity, and what happens when you stop outsourcing your meaning.🎧 Extended version available on Patreon🎓 Zendo Project peer-support training: use code DIVERGENTS10 🧠 For listeners interested in microdosing, midlife transitions, and psychedelic culturehttps://cultivatingwisdom.net/⏱️ Chapter Markers00:00 – Introduction & Cesar’s background 01:45 – 25 years at CNN and getting laid off 04:30 – Discovering psychedelics at 55 06:40 – Cultivating Wisdom & microdosing over 50 10:15 – Loss, grief, and mission-driven work 13:10 – What shifted personally 17:45 – Early doubts and first psychedelic experience 22:23 – Fun vs healing: why people stay 22:41 – How media shaped his psychedelic voice 26:13 – Bad headlines and stigma 28:26 – Why storytelling matters 29:18 – Midlife fear and reinvention 32:12 – “It’s not almost over — it’s just starting” 33:18 – Integration for older adults 37:55 – Meditation, presence, and connection 39:13 – Healing vs optimization 43:45 – Microdosing LSD vs psilocybin 46:36 – Psychedelic commercialization 47:47 – Public episode wrap-up 48:31 – Post-interview reflections 50:05 – Bryan’s takeaway 52:11 – Healing vs optimization framing 54:17 – Outro & Patreon plugSend a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Shane Mauss: How Psychedelics Actually Change the Mind

What really happens when psychedelics change someone, and why do some people come back grounded while others spiral into ego, conspiracy, or spiritual bypassing?In this long-form conversation, comedian and science-minded psychonaut Shane Mauss joins Divergent States for a deep dive into what psychedelics do to the human mind beneath the mystical language. Drawing on neuroscience, cognitive bias, evolutionary psychology, and lived psychedelic experience, Shane explains how substances like LSD, mushrooms, and DMT increase mental plasticity, loosen rigid categories, and open the brain to new ways of thinking — for better and for worse.Together, we explore why altered states can lead to creativity, healing, and insight, but also why they can just as easily fuel delusion, conspiracy thinking, and inflated ego. We talk about the placebo effect, Dunning-Kruger, belief formation, and how access to infinite information can make people feel like they know everything while understanding very little. Shane also shares candid stories from inside the psychedelic comedy world, including how Tales From the Trip was secretly launched at Comedy Central, why he’s uneasy about the current psychedelic “gold rush,” and how mainstream acceptance has changed the culture.This episode isn’t about chasing cosmic secrets or mystical narratives. It’s about how the mind actually works — and how psychedelics can either help us become more open, curious, and flexible, or lock us deeper into fantasy if we don’t know how to think critically about what we experience.If you care about psychedelics, consciousness, and staying grounded in reality while exploring extraordinary states, this conversation is for you.Shane's new special comes out 2/18 on ShaneMauss.com!Special thanks to Drip who did the music, check him out on Spotify and Soundcloud! 00:00 — Season 2 Opening 04:18 — From Stand-Up to Science 07:40 — Creating Psychedelic Theater 11:40 — Why Psychedelic Comedy Was Taboo 14:50 — Tales From the Trip Origin Story 19:20 — Why He Doesn’t Feel Like a Regular Comic 23:40 — Comedy as Tension and Truth 34:00 — George Carlin and Big-Idea Comedy 38:20 — Psychedelics Going Mainstream 41:00 — Skeptical Psychonauts 45:20 — Seeing the Dark Side of the Scene 47:45 — Psychedelics, Categorization, and the Brain 51:30 — The Crunchy-to-Conservative Pipeline 54:00 — Dunning-Kruger and Illusions of Knowledge 57:10 — Why Science Is Counterintuitive 01:02:40 — Why These Conversations Matter Send a text FiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

Inside Season Two: Integration, Not Escapism

Season Two of Divergent States is about something simple and surprisingly rare: exploring altered states without losing touch with reality.In this preview episode, 3L1T3 and Bryan share two short moments from upcoming conversations that define the tone of the season ahead.In the first, Shane Mauss reflects on how psychedelics open people to awe—but also to certainty, conspiracies, and belief systems that can replace reality if no one pushes back. In the second, Cesar Marin explains why presence and human connection are the real work of integration, not endless chasing of peak experiences.Together, these moments capture what Divergent States has always tried to do: hold space for wonder without drifting into delusion, depth without losing grounding, and exploration rooted in real human connection.Patreon supporters get extended versions of these conversations, including sections that don’t survive algorithm-friendly edits. But this preview is here for everyone—because harm reduction, presence, and honest conversation shouldn’t be paywalled.Welcome to Season Two.Chapters00:00 – Welcome back & season context Introducing Season Two and why this year matters.00:28 – What Divergent States actually isWhat the show is: harm reduction, not hype or spiritual theater.01:05 – Shane Mauss: Awe, science, and belief systems The “ghost crocodile” and microscope analogy.04:49 – Why psychedelics create both insight and delusionReflections on pattern-seeking and certainty in psychedelic spaces.05:20 – Cesar Marin: Presence as integration Connection, mushrooms, and staying grounded in real life.07:17 – The power of daily human connection Kids, texts, meditation, and showing up.08:55 – What Divergent States is really about Awe without delusion; depth without losing touch.09:15 – Patreon & how to support the show Extended cuts, deeper conversations, and why it matters.10:10 – Harm reduction & Zendo Project Why we partner with them and what the code supports.10:50 – Closing & Season Two welcome Personal sign-off and transition into the new season.Send a textFiresideProject.orgDownload the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDEZendo ProjectOur listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.Support the showSpecial Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike on Patreon! https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod