BONUS EPISODE: First person with Peter Hagerty
In 1969 Peter Hagerty, Navy ROTC instructor, inspected a destroyer the way he was supposed to.He followed the rules. The ship was in bad shape. He told his superior that the hairline crack on the barrels of the guns could cause an explosion. He said he would not approve the ship for battle. The captain told Peter, "you're a goddamn agitator” and said he would court-martial him.He found an attorney to defend him as he refused to go to Vietnam. Hagerty, motivated by guilt that his class background spared him from fighting the Navy in court, became involved in GI rights for men who went AWOL.For show notes, glossary, photos, and more, visit amatterofconscience.com
Breaking the Chain of Command
Resistance among military officers takes courage. Most officers have earned their promotion from following orders. To say “No” an officer might be risking their career. In this episode, we showcase the stories of two officers, also pilots, who disobeyed orders during the Vietnam War: Charlie Clements, U.S. Air Force and John Kent, U.S. Navy. We explore how they made the decision to rebel and the consequences of that non-conformity. For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.
BONUS EPISODE: Interview with John Boyko
This is a bonus episode of A Matter of Conscience: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War, featuring more of our interview with Canadian historian and author John Boyko, who wrote The Devil's Trick: How Canada Fought the Vietnam War. You heard him in Episode 10: Leaving America Behind – Deserters and the War. This interview explores Canada's complex and often contradictory role in the Vietnam War, detailing the country's significant economic involvement in manufacturing and selling weapons to the U.S. military, while simultaneously becoming a refuge for over 40,000 American draft evaders and military deserters. For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.
BONUS: The Intrepid Four
Move over James Bond! In this companion to Episode 10 about deserters during the Vietnam War, we hear about the wild journey of four sailors who deserted from the USS Intrepid during the Vietnam War. Their act of conscience began in Japan, then took them to the Soviet Union, and ended with asylum in Sweden. Researcher Rogelio Vargas-Rodriguez introduces us to the role of Beheiren, a Japanese organization dedicated to ending the Vietnam War, and we learn why their case has become an infamous part of Vietnam War history.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.
Leaving America Behind: Deserters and the War
More than half a million soldiers abandoned their posts during the Vietnam War, seeking refuge primarily in Canada and Sweden. In this gripping episode of A Matter of Conscience: GI Resistance During the Vietnam War, we plunge into the emotional and personal sacrifice of desertion. Hear the extraordinary journeys of four men: Mike Wong, who crossed the border into Canada; Gerry Condon, whose path wound from Canada to Sweden and back again; Michael Sutherland (formerly Lindner) and Steve Kinnaman, two men granted asylum in Sweden and who never returned to their homeland. We'll also explore the secret routes to freedom—the 'underground railroad' to Canada, guided by historian John Boyko, and the resilient deserter community in Sweden, as shared by its unofficial historian, Jim Walch, a conscientious objector who made Sweden his permanent home.For show notes, photos, and more, visit our website.