PodBiz | Where's The Money In Podcasting?

From Indie to Industry: How Michael Osborne Builds Partner-Ready Podcasts

What does it actually take for an independent podcast to become partner-ready? This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Michael Osborne about how shows move from passion projects to major media partnerships and why that transition is almost never fast or accidental.Michael has built and produced multiple podcasts that successfully partnered with organizations like Smithsonian Magazine, PRX, and Wondery. Across those projects, he’s seen firsthand how patience, clarity of concept, and real audience feedback matter far more than chasing trends.As he explains:“Minimum viable product and a partner-ready show are not the same thing.”Throughout the conversation, Michael and NJ unpack what creators often misunderstand about timing, originality, and the work required to make a podcast attractive to partners without losing its creative core. They also explore why most successful deals come years into a show’s life and how audience research, not downloads alone, shapes long-term growth.This episode offers a grounded look at podcasting as a business built on iteration, collaboration, and trust.Key Topics Discussed• The difference between indie experimentation and industry readiness• How podcasts evolve into partner-ready properties• Why originality of concept and host both matter• Audience research as a growth and development tool• Why partnerships take years, not months• Increasing value density in audio storytelling• The role of producers and collaborators in refining shows• Balancing creative fulfillment with sustainable business goalsAbout Michael OsborneMichael Osborne is a seasoned podcast producer and consultant based in Austin, Texas. He launched his first show, Generation Anthropocene, in 2011 during his PhD studies in climate science at Stanford University. The podcast later partnered with Grist and Smithsonian Magazine. Michael went on to develop Raw Data, a narrative podcast that collaborated with PRX and PRI, and Famous & Gravy, a dead celebrity biography podcast currently partnering with Wondery. His work has earned multiple Webby and Signal Awards, including for Famous & Gravy, Black Women of Amherst College, and Stanford’s From Our Neurons to Yours. Michael has also delivered two TEDx talks and operates 14th Street Studios, a production and consulting firm in downtown Austin.Connect with Michael on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-c-osborne/Threads: https://www.threads.net/@famousandgravyFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100076654703402Episode Moments(01:04) Michael’s path from academia to podcasting(03:13) Three shows, three different partnerships(05:48) Originality and value density in podcast concepts(10:51) Why partner timelines are longer than creators expect(14:56) MVP versus mature, partner-ready shows(16:20) Gathering meaningful audience feedback(19:01) Interactive formats and listener insight(24:41) Producing podcasts as a long-term practice(31:25) Sustainability and creative careers(38:43) How partners evaluate podcast projects(44:01) The future of audio-first storytellingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“A lot of people think success happens quickly, but most of the meaningful progress happens quietly over time.”“Audience feedback tells you things downloads never will.”“The shows that last are the ones that keep learning.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Portfolio Thinking and Sustainable Monetization in Podcasting with Danielle Desir Corbett

What does sustainable monetization actually look like for independent podcasters today? This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Danielle Desir Corbett about how creators can build resilient podcast businesses by thinking beyond single revenue streams and treating their work as a portfolio.Danielle shares how her approach to monetization has evolved over time, why relying on one income source is risky, and how creators can design businesses that compound value even when the market shifts. Rather than chasing trends or short-term wins, she explains the importance of owning assets, nurturing community, and staying flexible.As she puts it: “When one income stream pretty much dies on the vine and dries up, I can pivot and shift and refocus. That’s been my reality for 2025.”The conversation explores how podcasting fits into a broader creator ecosystem that includes newsletters, consulting, syndication, grants, and community-driven products. Danielle also walks through the creation of Grants for Creators and why helping other creatives access funding has become a meaningful and sustainable part of her business.This episode is a practical look at how independent podcasters can build long-term stability by thinking in portfolios, not paydays.Key Topics Discussed• What portfolio thinking means for podcasters • Why single-stream monetization is fragile • Relationship-driven brand deals and pitching • Pricing and packaging campaigns as an indie creator • Selling community as a business asset • Building and monetizing Grants for Creators • Airline syndication and evergreen content value • Storytelling as a long-term growth strategyAbout Danielle Desir CorbettDanielle Desir Corbett is a podcast strategist and the host of The Thought Card and Road Trip Ready. She is the creator of Grants for Creators, a paid newsletter that curates funding opportunities for podcasters, journalists, and creatives. Danielle previously founded and sold the Women of Color Podcasters community and works at the intersection of podcasting, personal finance, and travel.Websites: https://danielledesir.com/ https://thoughtcard.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedaniellecorbettEpisode Moments (01:21) Where Danielle sees money in podcasting today (04:00) Why portfolio thinking matters (06:03) How brand deals really work for indie creators (10:21) Pricing and packaging creator value (14:59) Danielle’s path into podcasting (19:01) Building and selling a creator community (27:40) Inside Grants for Creators (38:03) Airline syndication and evergreen ROI (41:51) What Danielle would build first todaySome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Close mouths don’t get fed.”“Just because you’re pivoting doesn’t mean what you built isn’t valuable.”“Podcasting has been one of the best investments I’ve made in myself.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Business of Podcasting at Scale with Colin Anderson

What changes when podcasting moves from experimentation to infrastructure?This week on PodBiz, NJ speaks with Colin Anderson, Head of Network Development at the Office Ladies Podcast Network, about how podcasting has evolved into a serious commercial business and what that means for creators, networks, and advertisers operating at scale.Colin brings a perspective shaped by years inside podcast production, strategy, and network development. He explains why more advertiser money is flowing into podcasting than ever before, how networks think about audience value beyond downloads, and why community still matters even as the industry becomes more corporate.As he puts it: “The money’s here. There’s more money than ever.”The conversation also explores how podcasting culture has shifted from its early indie roots to a more structured, professionalized industry. Colin reflects on what has been gained, what has been lost, and how creators and operators should think about sustainability, loyalty, and long-term value in a changing ecosystem.Key Topics Discussed• Why advertiser demand in podcasting continues to grow • How podcast networks evaluate shows and revenue potential • Audience value beyond scale and raw download numbers • The role of community inside networked podcast businesses • Podcasting’s shift from indie culture to corporate infrastructure • Loyalty, labor, and evolving work culture in media • The influence of legacy media on podcast growth • What the next phase of podcast networks looks likeAbout ColinColin Anderson is Head of Network Development at the Office Ladies Podcast Network, where he works on network strategy, partnerships, and show development. He has spent his career across podcast production, monetization, and network leadership, giving him a clear view of how the industry has matured.Website: colinanderson.infoLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrcolinanderson/Episode Moments(01:02) The current state of podcast monetization (07:20) Community and audience value at scale (12:21) Colin’s path through the podcast industry (17:53) How podcast networks have changed (24:54) Work culture and loyalty in media (30:50) Legacy media’s role in podcast growth (37:08) The outlook for creators inside networks (44:06) Navigating podcasting as a businessSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Funny is funny, but it’s different to different people.”“Podcasting could support journalism in a way that print has failed.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Breaking Out Of Walled Gardens and France's Podcasting Culture with Sarah Toporoff

Is the secret to podcasting success hidden in the French market?In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Sarah Toporoff, Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner, about the evolving landscape of audience growth and monetization. Sarah discusses how her team is helping publishers break podcasting out of "walled garden" platforms and into the wider web, transforming organic traffic into loyal listeners.As she puts it:"Your audio engineer can't be your audience developer. Like, it just doesn't work that way."Here are some insightful moments within the episode:• Where the money is in podcasting: Why Sarah argues the true money is in the audience and why • France is a uniquely booming market for branded content.• Breaking the walled gardens: How to reach the billions of people online who aren't currently using dedicated podcast apps.• The "Owned, Earned, and Paid" framework: Why creators need to look beyond organic growth to reach new heights.• The "Death of the Download": Navigating the controversy of auto-play audio and why "guaranteed listens" are a better metric.• Professionalizing audience strategy: Moving past the "if we build it, they will come" naivete to implement real media strategy.• Awareness vs. Performance: Understanding the spectrum between generating impressions and building a loyal following.About Sarah ToporoffSarah Toporoff is the Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner. Based in Paris, she has over a decade of experience in media innovation, having worked in journalism innovation, radio product development, and publisher partnerships. She is a self-described "audio girly" who specializes in helping publishers and brands maximize their reach through contextual content recommendation.Episode Chapters (00:00) Intro (01:04) Where is the money in podcasting? (01:29) What is Disco by Headliner? (03:27) Breaking podcasts out of "walled gardens" (04:49) Why audio was left behind by the web (06:33) Case Study: Doubling Al Jazeera’s audience overnight (10:52) The importance of paid media in a launch strategy (11:55) The controversy of auto-play and inflated downloads (13:34) The "booming" branded podcast culture in France (16:52) Sarah’s journey from English teacher to legacy media (23:32) Debunking the "If we build it, they will come" myth (26:34) The shift toward dedicated audience growth teams (30:06) Awareness vs. Performance: What are you actually buying? (33:15) Why you can’t buy loyalty (38:30) Real-world budget benchmarks for podcast growth (41:25) Riding the video wave without losing audio's soulSome Additional PodBiz Buzz: "The money is an audience."•"Real media has strategy and budget."•"A solid media plan is not going to fix a bad show." "My job is everything that happens after you hit publish."PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Distribution, Relationships, and the Real ROI of Podcasting with Greg Wasserman

Why do so many podcasters focus on monetization before they’ve solved distribution and audience growth?This week on PodBiz, we’re joined by Greg Wasserman, Head of Relationships at RSS.com, to break down how podcasters actually build leverage in the industry and why relationships, not just downloads, are at the core of sustainable growth.Greg challenges the industry’s obsession with ads and sponsorships as the only path to revenue. Instead, he explains why podcasting works best when it’s treated as part of a broader business strategy, whether you’re a creator, agency, or brand. From audience growth to distribution gaps to relationship-driven ROI, Greg offers a clear framework for thinking about podcasting as a long-term asset.As he puts it:“You want more money? Then go focus on how do you grow your audience.”He also emphasizes that many podcasters limit their growth by staying inside a single ecosystem rather than taking advantage of open distribution through RSS.This episode is a practical conversation about where value is actually created in podcasting and how creators can stop leaving opportunity on the table.Key Topics DiscussedThe three questions every podcaster asks: distribution, audience, moneyWhy monetization should not be the starting pointThe hidden cost of limiting your show to one ecosystemPodcasting as a relationship-driven business toolWhy most podcasters misunderstand ROIHow agencies leave money on the tableImproving as a host to grow audience trustCommunity building as a growth strategyWhy relationships are a form of currency in podcastingWhat excites Greg most about where the industry is headedAbout Greg WassermanGreg Wasserman is the Head of Relationships at RSS.com, where he leads creator and partner engagement across the podcast ecosystem. With a background in media sales, platform growth, and community building, Greg is known for connecting people, building long-term relationships, and helping podcasters think strategically about growth, distribution, and monetization.Find Greg on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/gregwasserman/Episode Chapters(01:18) Introducing Greg Wasserman(01:20) Where the money in podcasting really comes from(02:45) Podcasting as a business versus a media company(03:12) Rethinking monetization beyond ads(04:56) Why being a good host matters(05:17) Greg’s path into podcasting(06:00) Learning podcast distribution from platforms(06:56) The three questions podcasters always ask(07:38) Distribution as the fastest path to audience growth(08:13) Relationships as a career strategy(09:18) Where agencies leave money on the table(11:00) Improving your craft as a host(13:27) Building creator communities at RSS.com(15:59) Serving creators through feedback and partnerships(16:30) What Greg would do differently starting today(19:11) Why this is an exciting moment for podcastingSome Additional PodBiz Buzz“Life is about time and relationships.”“If you want more money, make sure you have those other 30 percent of your audience.”“Relationships can be currency. The more conversations you have, the more opportunities appear.”PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.