Startups For the Rest of Us

Episode 821 | How to Do Founder-Led Marketing (with Jay Clouse)

Is founder-led marketing right for your SaaS, or just a distraction? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Jay Clouse, founder of Creator Science, to explore founder-led marketing. They dig into how Jay overcame his own limiting beliefs about creativity, why most SaaS founders probably shouldn't pursue content creation, and how to evaluate whether building an audience makes sense for your specific business. This is part one of a two-part conversation. Head to the Creator Science podcast to hear Jay interview Rob about SaaS, being a creator, and how he prioritizes his time. Episode Sponsors: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking forces you to duct-tape tools together and work around slow, clunky processes. Mercury gives me a clean dashboard that shows exactly where each business stands at a glance. The interface is simple enough for daily banking and paying invoices, but powerful enough to handle multi-step approval workflows for large transfers. There's a reason more than 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. It's free to get started with no in-person visits and no minimum balance. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. Need to ship faster without expanding your team? Gearheart is an AI-powered product studio that helps startups build B2B SaaS apps and AI agents, fast. Their team ships at twice the speed of traditional dev shops and understands how to work within startup constraints. Whether you need a fractional CTO or experienced engineers to accelerate development, Gearheart plugs directly into your workflow and delivers. They’ve built 70+ products, including SmartSuite, which raised $38M and is used by companies like Capital One. As a listener, you get the first 20 hours of development free when you mention the podcast. gearheart.io Topics we cover:  (3:17) – What is Creator Science and who it serves (6:49) – “I’m not creative”: Jay’s mindset shift + advice for founders (11:38) – Examples of ultra-niche creator businesses  (13:54) – Why founders should create content for customers (not other founders) (19:02) – Discovery vs. relationship channels: where attention actually comes from (20:10) – Who Should Pursue Founder-Led Marketing?  (24:17) – Picking platforms based on where your customers already are (31:43) – Founder-involved vs. founder-led marketing Links from the Show:  MicroConf Europe┃Reykjavik, Iceland · Sept 21-23 Creator Science Creator Science Podcast (Part two of this conversation) Jay Clouse┃LinkedIn Jay Clouse (@jayclouse)┃X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Episode 820 | When to Quit Your Day Job, A.I. Feasibility Risk, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

When do you finally quit your day job and go all-in on your startup? In this solo episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about when it’s worth taking funding to speed up your path to full-time, how to think about equity when a co-founder joins late, and whether A.I. is shifting startup risk from market risk to feasibility risk. He also breaks down how to treat a low-priced, high-churn plan as “cheapium,” when to kill it, and how to test freemium without making a decision you can’t undo. Want to get your question answered? Drop it here. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (2:48) – When is it time to quit your day job, and should you raise funding to do it faster? (4:35) – The “emotional runway” problem (and why bootstrappers burn out) (10:06) – Equity splits: when to talk about it, and what actually matters (13:57) – Late co-founder vs. business partner: how traction changes the % (18:34) – Is A.I. increasing feasibility risk (aka tech risk) for startups? (25:01) – Should a cheap, high-churn plan be treated like a marketing channel? (26:19) – “Cheapium” pricing: when to keep it, kill it, or test freemium Links from the Show:  Apply to TinySeed - Applications are until Feb 17th, 2026 The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling MicroConf  - Community for SaaS Founders Slicing Pie by Mike Moyer Die With Zero by Bill Perkins Dharmesh Shah If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Episode 819 | QSBS, Exit Multiples, How to Learn Marketing, and More Listener Questions (Rob Solo)

Could your business structure quietly cost you millions when you sell? In this solo episode, Rob Walling answers listener questions about when QSBS might justify a C Corp (vs. staying an S Corp or LLC), why SaaS exits are often discussed in ARR multiples rather than EBITDA, and how the profitability/growth tradeoff impacts valuation. He also shares thoughts on GMV-based pricing and where developers can learn practical, non-fluffy marketing skills. Episode Sponsors: This episode is brought to you by Mercury Mercury is the banking solution I use across my businesses, from my personal single-member LLC to MicroConf and TinySeed. Traditional banking forces you to duct-tape tools together and work around slow, clunky processes. Mercury gives me a clean dashboard that shows exactly where each business stands at a glance. The interface is simple enough for daily banking and paying invoices, but powerful enough to handle multi-step approval workflows for large transfers. There's a reason more than 300,000 entrepreneurs have made the switch. It's free to get started with no in-person visits and no minimum balance. Apply online in minutes at mercury.com. Mercury is a fintech company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group and Column N.A., Members FDIC. If you’ve got a strong vision but no technical partner, you need more than a “vibe-coded” MVP, you need a real foundation. That’s where Designli comes in. Their two-week SolutionLab Prototyping Sprint pairs you with a product owner, designer, and developer to turn your idea into a beautiful, clickable prototype you’ll be proud to show investors or early users. Right now, Startups for the Rest of Us listeners get $3,800 off their sprint. Get started at designli.co/fortherestofus Topics we cover:  (3:30) – How the QSBS tax benefit can save you millions (7:40) – C Corp vs. S Corp: which structure makes sense for founders (9:39) – Why ARR multiples matter more than EBITDA in SaaS (13:13) – Profitability as a drain on growth (16:44) – Should co-founders join the same mastermind? (18:08) – How to leverage GMV-based pricing in SaaS (21:43) – The best way for developers to learn real marketing skills (30:37) – Why every founder should master sales and marketing early Links from the Show:  TinySeed Applications Live Q&A - February 11th, 10:00 AM EST Apply to TinySeed - Applications are until Feb 17th, 2026 The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling MicroConf  - Community for SaaS Founders Conversion Factory TinySeed Mentors Rob Walling on X (@robwalling) If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Episode 818 | What Does It Take to Be Successful? with Russ Walling

Is perfectionism quietly sabotaging your career or startup dreams? In this episode, Rob Walling talks with his brother, Russ Walling, about the mindset and habits that shape long-term success from overcoming perfectionism to building resilience and learning to make tough calls without all the answers. They discuss how growing up with a shared emphasis on hard work, sports, and achievement created both strengths and struggles and how lessons learned in construction, poker, and entrepreneurship still apply to building great companies today. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (04:10) – How early lessons in hard work and sports shaped mindset (07:46) – Learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable (12:03) – The dark side of perfectionism (16:51) – Overcoming fear of failure and learning to take risks (19:04) – What poker taught Russ about risk and decision-making (21:52) – The Armageddon Beer story  (28:53) – Why both brothers chose entrepreneurship (31:08) – Redefining leadership: collaboration over fear (35:24) – The three traits that drive lasting success (43:45) – Why hard work is still the ultimate differentiator Links from the Show:  Discretion Capital M&A Advisory for SaaS Founders doing $2-25M The SaaS Playbook by Rob Walling Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

Episode 817 | Bootstrapping in the Age of AI with Jason Cohen

How would a 2x unicorn founder build his next startup with AI? In this episode, Rob Walling sits down with Jason Cohen, founder of SmartBear and WP Engine, to talk about building billion-dollar businesses, the future of AI for founders, and what makes small companies thrive even when the odds are stacked against them. They dig into the early days of WP Engine, how Jason develops his frameworks, why execution beats ideas, and Jason’s framework for identifying “hidden multipliers” small, systematic changes that make an outsized impact. Episode Sponsor: Hiring engineers shouldn’t feel like sorting through AI-polished resumes. G2i cuts through all of that. They’ve pre-vetted over 8,000 engineers, all with 5+ years of real experience, and they run live, human-led technical interviews to verify actual skills. No time wasters. No guesswork. Just solid developers who can deliver. G2i is trusted by companies like Meta, Microsoft, and countless bootstrapped founders who need to move fast without making expensive mistakes. Get a 7-day free trial and $1,500 off when you mention Startups for the Rest of Us at https://www.g2i.co/rob  Topics we cover:  (03:45) – The core idea behind Hidden Multipliers (09:24) – Writing as a way of thinking (12:34) – Why sharing your frameworks matters (14:14) – The origin of “Designing the Ideal Bootstrap Business” (18:10) – The hidden weak links in every startup (21:25) – De-risking and niching down effectively (24:56) – Why narrowing your focus expands your reach (26:24) – Building WP Engine in a commodity market (29:37) – Out-executing funded competitors (31:52) – Finding product–market resonance through pricing (32:40) – How brand actually develops (37:54) – Building in the age of AI: pitfalls and opportunities (41:52) – The three categories of AI startups today (46:02) – Why 10x improvement is the new baseline for differentiation (49:19) – The real moat in the age of AI Links from the Show:  MicroConf US 2026 – Portland, April 14–16, 2026  Promo Code: Rob50 for $50 off The SaaS Playbook PREORDER Hidden Multipliers by Jason Cohen Designing the Ideal Bootstrapped Business with Jason Cohen A Smart Bear Blog Jason Cohen (@asmartbear) | X  If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify