Episode 142 - The Incredibles with Doug Lief

Case and Jmike are joined by Doug Lief (from the Nostalgium Arcanum podcast) to talk about a family that's pretty super, The Incredibles!

 

Overview

 

In Podcast episode 142 of Men of Steel, hosts Case Aiken and Jmike Folson, alongside guest Doug Lief, delve into a comprehensive analysis of Disney's The Incredibles through the lens of Superman fandom. They explore the film's connections to other superhero media, notably its references to 60s Batman and Fleischer Superman, while debating the film's overall tone, which Case describes as having an 'angry' directorial voice. The discussion emphasizes Mr. Incredible as a Superman analog, revealing how his secret identity as Bob Parr reflects an average man grappling with superhero responsibilities amid family dynamics. The team draws parallels between the family members' powers and their roles, likening the villain Syndrome to a failed fan archetype obsessed with eliminating exceptionalism. Additionally, they analyze the film's aging animation, contextualize its place in the superhero genre before the rise of the MCU, and celebrate its blend of action and relatable family themes. The episode culminates in discussing the film's unresolved questions about the necessity of superheroes in society, concluding that it adeptly balances the extraordinary with the everyday.

 

Notes

‍️ Introduction and Context (01:12 - 15:47)

• Case Aiken and Jmike Folson host the Men of Steel podcast with guest Doug Lief
• The discussion focuses on Disney's The Incredibles (2004) from a Superman fan perspective
• Doug mentions the movie's connections to Watchmen and other superhero media
• The hosts establish that the film is a love letter to superheroes with influences from 60s Batman, James Bond, and Fleischer Superman
• Case acknowledges he likes but doesn't love the movie, finding it has an 'angry' directorial voice

‍️ Mr. Incredible as Superman Analog (15:47 - 24:52)

• The group analyzes Mr. Incredible (Bob Parr) as a Superman analog
• Bob Parr's name means 'average' - perfect for a secret identity
• His job at an insurance company creates dramatic irony (helping after harm vs. preventing it)
• The hosts discuss Mr. Incredible's durability, strength, and physical capabilities
• The film explores the tension between superhero responsibility and family obligations
• The 'Bob Parr' identity has real value to him beyond just being a disguise

‍‍‍ Family Dynamics and Powers (24:52 - 39:20)

• The Incredibles compared to Fantastic Four but with a nuclear family structure
• Each family member's powers serve as metaphors for their roles:
• Elastigirl must 'bend over backwards' for her family
• Violet wants to be invisible/blend in as a teenager
• Dash wants to show off and stand out with his speed
• Holly Hunter praised for her performance as Elastigirl
• The married couple dynamic shows mature flirtation and partnership
• Sarah Vowell's performance as Violet highlighted despite not being a professional actress

Syndrome as Villain (39:20 - 54:00)

• Syndrome analyzed as Jimmy Olsen gone evil or fan-turned-Lex Luthor
• His character represents fandom and mediocrity wanting to eliminate specialness
• Syndrome observes and counters heroes' weaknesses but fails to examine his own
• His fatal flaw is wearing a cape, which Edna Mode had warned against
• The group discusses connections to Alan Moore's works (Watchmen and Captain Britain)
• Syndrome's robot compared to the squid from Watchmen's ending
• Brad Bird reportedly denies Watchmen influence despite many parallels

Jack-Jack and Supporting Characters (54:00 - 01:03:00)

• Jack-Jack has godlike powers (17 documented in the sequel)
• Compared to Franklin Richards from Fantastic Four
• Jack-Jack helps defeat Syndrome at the end of the film
• Edna Mode (voiced by Brad Bird) praised as an excellent character
• Her role as the Q-like gadget designer who incorporates fashion
• The group discusses superhero costume design elements
• Frozone and his 'Where's my super suit?' scene mentioned

Animation and Film Context (01:03:00 - 01:16:40)

• The film's animation shows its age (from 2004) but holds up well due to stylization
• Technical limitations discussed (water effects, foliage, crowds)
• The hosts note the film predates the MCU (2008) and Nolan's Batman (2005)
• The Incredibles came at a transition point for superhero cinema
• The movie successfully balances superhero action with relatable family dynamics
• Character designs discussed (Mr. Incredible's face based on a Roman helmet)

Final Battle and Themes (01:16:40 - 01:26:47)

• The Omnidroid battle showcases the family working together effectively
• Team power moves highlight each character's abilities and their coordination
• The question of 'do we need superheroes?' explored through the final battle
• Dash's athletic participation at the end (coming in second) compared to Superman hiding his abilities
• The film doesn't fully resolve questions about exceptional people's place in society
• The ending shows balance between superhero and ordinary life is beneficial

Conclusions and Wrap-Up (01:26:47 - 01:38:04)

• The Underminer appearance sets up the sequel and references Mole Man from Fantastic Four
• The hosts appreciate the film's commentary on superhero tropes ('you caught me monologuing')
• The movie works well as both a superhero film and a family story
• Discussion about how the film has aged and its historical context in superhero cinema
• Podcast information and social media contacts shared
• Recommendation for Books that Burn podcast from the Certain POV network