Disney Abandoned America for the 1%

Discover how Disney transformed from a family-friendly brand into a luxury experience that’s out of reach for many. In this deep-dive conversation, Simone and Malcolm Collins break down the skyrocketing costs of Disney parks, merchandise, and streaming, and explore why so many fans are willing to go into debt for a taste of the “magic.” The Collinses look at the business strategies behind Disney’s price hikes, the psychology of Disney fandom, and what this shift means for fam

ilies, kids, and the future of entertainment. Whether you’re a lifelong Disney fan, a parent, or just curious about the economics of modern brands, this episode will change how you see the “Happiest Place on Earth.”

As this was another Simone-outlined episode, we also have those episode notes to share if you want them! You’ll find them below and the episode transcript follows.

Episode Outline: How Disney Became a Luxury Good:

Intro

* Disney is no longer affordable and we need to talk about it

* Disney park entrance fees now rise about twice as fast as the cost of an average American’s basket of goods and services, and faster than major competitors’ ticket prices

* Disney is also charging customers for a myriad of add-ons in a way that’s insane

* Jake of Bright Sun Films / Travels puts it well:

*

* At one point, he pays $42 just for himself and his girlfriend to access a new attraction (the Tron ride)

* He dropped 886 USD for one day (not doing anything particularly special)

* Surveys in 2024-2025 show that around 24% of all US Disney park visitors have gone into debt to pay for their Disney trip, with the rate soaring to 45% among parents with children under 18. The average debt for these trips is about $2,000 per family, and most indebted guests took on their Disney debt within the past five years

* Why this matters:

* Disney is not unique; it’s representative of any non-commoditized product in a market

* And discourse around Disney’s unaffordability yields a key insight

* Because non-commodity products will be endlessly exploitative; they will never really be affordable or sustainable

* When you live a mainstream, consumerist lifestyle, you will NEVER have enough money to afford luxuries

* It’s not that you cannot afford fun or kids; it’s that you cannot afford to hedonically survive in modern culture

* And this should be a wakeup call that you need to find contentment from within your own home: Your work, your family, and your community.

Price Hikes

When adjusted for inflation, entrance fee increases at US-based Disney parks have significantly outpaced both the national inflation rate and the price hikes at rival parks such as Universal Studios and Six Flags, though all major parks have seen double-digit real increases in the past decade

Disney Tokyo vs. USA Disney

Park Meals

Park Add-Ons

The original FastPass (1999–2020) was included free with admission; paid add-ons began with MaxPass and evolved into Genie+, Lightning Lane, and Multi Pass, each showing rapid price escalation

Disney+

* Disney+: The Sun: PRICE PAINS Disney slaps fans with higher prices days after Jimmy Kimmel billion-dollar bombshell https://www.the-sun.com/money/15238183/disney-plus-hulu-price-increase-jimmy-kimmel-charlie-kirk/

Disney Debt

Key Debt Statistics for Disney Vacations

* 24% of Disney park attendees have taken on debt for their trip, up sharply from 18% in 2022.

* 45% of parents with children under 18 have gone into debt for a Disney trip, up from 30% in 2022.

* The average Disney-related debt for parents with young children is $1,983 per trip.

* Debt most commonly covers concessions (food, drink), transportation, and accommodations.

* 83% of indebted parents incurred their Disney debt within the past five years, with 35% in the past year alone.

* Gen Z (39%) and Millennials (36%) are likeliest to take on Disney debt, while just 7% of Boomers do so.

* Men are twice as likely as women to take on Disney debt (32% vs. 16%).

* Most families pay off their Disney-related debt within six months, and nearly 60% report no regrets about spending for Disney memories.

The Disney Delusion

People are so brainwashed into Disney fandom (which we would argue is analogous to any facet of modern mainstream culture) that Disney is able to exploit them in a myriad of ways—and it will never be enough.

Examples:

* Disney Merchandise, with some mickey mouse ears being as much as $198: https://www.disneystore.com/accessories/adults/ear-hats-headbands/

* A typical price is $44

* Disney Vacation Club (DVC), Disney’s a robust timeshare model, with expanded resorts and enhanced member-exclusive experiences

* They extract more out of their members with DVC resale, rentals, and point-based enhancements

* “Enchanting Extras” in parks, like exclusive fireworks views, private tours, premium lounges, animal encounters, and adventure activities requiring advance reservations and high per-person fees

* Also in parks for an extra fee: New dining events, club lounges (e.g., Pirates of the Caribbean tavern, Spaceship Earth lounge), after-hours parties, and dessert parties

Why this exploitative behavior is logical and somewhat inevitable

Disney’s Transparent Approach

Disney is going to quality, not quantity: The Mirror: https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/disney-world-empty-americans-fear-1398349 Disney World ‘empty’ as Americans fear tourism is ‘finished’ in Florida

* “Disney World has been a ghost town this summer, with visitors sharing different theories about what might be behind the quiet scenes at the popular theme park”

Core Elements of Disney’s Strategy

* Fewer, Wealthier Guests:Disney’s data shows the top 10% of US earners now account for half of all consumer spending, so parks focus on affluent demographics who can pay for new premium experiences, suites, and costly add-ons.

* Higher Per-Guest Revenue:Recent quarterly and annual reports show Disney parks earning record profits with attendance still below pre-pandemic levels, thanks to massive increases in per-capita guest spending on upcharges, hotels, food, and special services. The result: “more profit from fewer park visitors”.

* Active Price Optimization:Disney employs dynamic, date-based pricing, high price increases for skip-the-line add-ons, and a steady stream of upcharges. Revenue repeatedly rises even when traffic is flat or falls, and executive commentary explicitly acknowledges the strategy of maximizing revenue from each visitor.

* Not Seeking Lower Crowds for Comfort:Disney does not primarily want less crowded parks; it simply wants “optimized” attendance where yield per guest is highest, and will flex promotions only if revenue growth stalls or competition rises.

Outcome and Position

* Disney’s pricing model is now widely understood—even by executives and analysts—as being engineered to attract “fewer but wealthier” guests or families willing to take on debt for a premium experience.

* Critics, longtime fans, and analysts note that this model risks losing the middle-class base, with executives candid that record-setting investments in parks will only be recouped by sustained high guest spending, not by maximizing attendance.

This Model Being Common

If you’re not selling a commodity, it is more logical to charge more and double down on high rollers rather than budget-conscious spenders

A large majority of businesses—especially those not selling commoditized products—generate most of their income from a minority of clients, following the “Pareto Principle” (80/20 rule), which states that typically 80% of revenue comes from 20% of customers. In some industries, the concentration is even stronger: for agencies, consultancies, luxury goods, and financial firms, the top 1–5% of clients may contribute more than half of profits or revenue

* About half of Gucci’s sales—particularly online—come from its top 20% of customers,

* Luxury industry analysts frequently estimating that the top 20% of customers can account for up to 70–80% of revenues and profits in ultra-high-end segments.

* Casinos overwhelmingly depend on their top 20% of customers for their profits, with recent studies showing that this segment is responsible for around 90% or more of total operator revenue, especially in online casino settings.

* the top 20% of Magic’s buyers—often termed “whales”—are estimated to generate 70–80% or more of the total sales and profits for the brand. Supporting this, discussions among Magic analysts and financial communities indicate the brand relies heavily on a core of highly engaged, high-spending customers who purchase large quantities of cards, premium sets, and exclusive product offerings like Secret Lair drops. While Hasbro, Magic’s parent company, provides evidence of rising average transaction values and outsized revenue growth from new products and premium sets, it does not break down profit figures by customer segment in official reports

* Even applies to phone apps: analysis group Sensor Tower documented a “25:65 Rule” for the App Store, with 25% of customers responsible for 65% of spending

The key balance for these businesses is to reduce risk of losing those fewer, top clients (since their loss matters more), but Disney is still keeping pretty broad.

Budget or low-yield customers may actually decrease overall profitability due to higher service costs, lower margins, and resource strain. Many successful firms actively segment and sometimes deliberately “fire” unprofitable clients to make room for high impact account

Basically, if you’re buying non-essentials and NOT a high roller, you’re going to get an intentionally crummy experience.

Why This Matters

Because any non-commodity product/service is going to be either unsustainably expensive or underwhelming, we need to figure out how to get whatever value they offer internally and sustainably

* Externally-purchased luxuries will never be enough

* You can’t “buy” happiness through luxury goods.

______________________________________________________________________

Episode Transcript:

Simone Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Malcolm. I’m so excited to be speaking with you today because you wanted to explore how Disney has become a luxury good. And at first it was like, I don’t know, every brand. Not a luxury good. A

Malcolm Collins: luxury brand. A luxury brand. Going through Disney these days.

It’s like you go and, and, and you pay for something. You’re like, can I have that like going to Disneyland or Disney bag or something?

Speaker: We happy Vincent? We happy? Yeah, we happy. Look.

But in reality, if I were to go to Disneyland, it would be more like this.

Speaker 3: Open it up. Go ahead, open it up. Do what he says.

Speaker 4: Harry,

Speaker 5: what is this? What is this? Where’s all the money?

Speaker 4: That’s as good as money, sir. Those are IOUs.

Simone Collins: No, like ba basically. That’s it. [00:01:00] And, and honestly, the more I dove into this issue to prepare for this episode, the more I realized this, this is actually really deep and important issue to discuss.

It goes way beyond all the like, butt hurt videos that are out there, which I love watching anyway. I watch a ton of Disney reviews. I, I subscribe to channels that only review menus from premium Disney restaurants. Like I, I’m into this. I love it. But it’s actually doing the research myself and doing this episode.

I now have a completely different view and philosophy around purchasing any non commodified product or service.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, explain. My

Simone Collins: worldview has changed. So we’re gonna get into it through the lens of Disney. No longer being affordable. And we really have to talk about it. So I just wanted, for those who are not familiar with the Disney brand and how much it has increased in cost, Disney Park entrance fees now rise about twice as fast as the cost of an average American’s basket of goods and services, and faster than major competitors ticket prices too.

So it’s not just like. Everyone’s getting out of hand when it comes to theme parks. Disney’s also charging customers [00:02:00] for a myriad of add-ons that is just completely insane. And if you wanna watch, like, ‘cause I, I love videos on these. I really love Jake of Bright Sun Films. Check out his, his bright sun travel.

S channel two. He has one video where he just goes with his girlfriend to Disneyland for one day and sort of just gives you a really good day in the life of like how much you spend being a totally non VIP reasonable budget, conscious Disney attendee.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God.

Simone Collins: At one point though, he, he wants to go on a new ride there.

The new Tron ride. He pays just $42 for himself and his girlfriend to be able to get on the ride. Because there was no wait. But he’s already in the park. He’s already in the park. But just to, just to get on that one ride, because otherwise they never would’ve gotten to go on it that day because you have to like, it’s, it’s a whole thing.

In that one day, he dropped $886.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my God.

Simone Collins: For not, not doing anything particular. No, he didn’t buy any snacks. He didn’t do anything special. He, he didn’t get add-ons aside from that one desperate attempt to get on a ride. [00:03:00] And it, it’s, it’s insane. It’s also, I should, I should say like, it is insane to the point where people are actively damaging themselves to participate in Disney experiences surveys in 2024 to 2025.

So like now. Show that around 24% of all US Disney Park visitors have gone into debt to pay for their Disney trip with the rate soaring to 45% among parent with parents of children under 18 who are the least. You know,

Malcolm Collins: they

Simone Collins: shouldn’t be

Malcolm Collins: getting to debt rather than like saving for college or something.

Not, not that college makes sense these days. Exactly. But saving to set their kids up, they’re like, yeah, let’s go into debt for Disney.

Simone Collins: For Disney. The, and, and it’s not a little bit, the average debt for these trips is around $2,000 per family and most indebted guests took their Disney debt on within the past five years.

It, it’s, it is. I just, I can’t believe it. And the

Malcolm Collins: experience is not that good. We went to Disney not that long ago compared to like when I was a kid, and I remember just being like, this is not, it doesn’t have that much magic [00:04:00] anymore. Yeah. Especially if you can trust it with other parts like Universal Studios.

Yeah. Which were like freaking amazing.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just like Park technology. Were like

Malcolm Collins: how good Universal Studios was in comparison to Disney. Disney felt like. A discount at Attract. It really reminds me of like Costco’s versus BJ’s. Like everybody thinks of Costco as like the higher end brand, but if you’ve ever been in a Costcos, in a BJ’s, Costco’s feels very like.

And I do not mean to say this in like a, a negative way, but growing up in Texas, you could go to various grocery stores and you could tell if the primary users of the grocery store were Latin American immigrants, or they were supposed to be Texas born individuals. And Costco feels like a store that is set up for Latin American immigrants.

Typically like, it, it’s, it’s, you know, with BJ’s like it’s, everything’s like very. Actually anyone who knows, if you’re Latin American and you’ve gone to a Latin American grocery store, you know exactly what I’m talking about. They feel they have a very different structure in terms of the layout and in terms of the way they display products.

[00:05:00] But anyway,

Simone Collins: interesting. BJ’s does feel very white, I’ll say that. But, but here is why this really, actually matters beyond just Disney. Disney is not actually unique. It’s, it, it is. It is we’ll say like a sort of hyperbolic example, but it’s representative of any non commoditized product in a market.

And discourse around Disney’s unaffordability yields a key insight because non-commodity products are basically in this modern age, endlessly exploitative. There is no way that there’re gonna be affordable or sustainable. In other words, you’re either gonna get a crappy experience like we did at Disney.

Yeah. Or you are gonna spend so much money. Like you’re in debt or, or all your money spent on it, and you’re still not gonna be satiated.

Malcolm Collins: So explain what you mean by a non-commodity experience.

Simone Collins: So I’m referring to, and so, there, there are sort of two broad different types of business models. They’re, they’re commodities like groceries, like gasoline, where [00:06:00] businesses are making money by being more efficient and trying to get as much market share as possible.

And then there are products that are. More like luxuries or or discretionary purchases, where really as a business, you are making money by differentiating yourself and building brand loyalty. And the only way that you’re really gonna make money is by getting, focusing, doubling down. On your top.

Typically there’s just the Pareto principle at play. Your top 20% of customers are gonna make up the majority of your earnings. And because of that principle, basically, and businesses, I think in the past, even in our childhoods, and you can see this with Disney, they didn’t, I guess, wanna admit this. They were like, oh, we welcome all, we wanna get all the customers.

Let’s give everyone a great experience. Yeah. And now businesses are getting a lot more ruthless about like. No, we’re gonna fire, we’re gonna fire these customers either by like literally excluding them or by just giving them a really shoddy [00:07:00] experience. And we are going to. Completely focus in. Well, so consider

Malcolm Collins: Disney and why they would do this if people are confused by this.

If you go to Disney, and I’ve been on like non big days you are in giant lines, like, let’s say like two hour lines for like every ride, right? From a Disney perspective, that means you, if you’re not one of the highest paying customers, are just making the highest paying customers wait longer for a ride, right?

Like yeah, you’re

Simone Collins: in their way, you’re crowding the park. If you are

Malcolm Collins: frugal, they don’t want you there.

Simone Collins: Yeah. If you’re showing up with bottled water and with snacks packed and you’re not paying for any extras and, and then on the other hand, there’s this family. That buys the merch, goes to the premium restaurants, goes to a dessert party, gets the the genie passes.

Stays at the most expensive branded hotel in a suite. Does a six day package, is a Disney vacation package timeshare member. Like all these things like obviously. They want that, that other family to get everything, you know, they’re gonna get all the [00:08:00] attention. But this is, this is a general market principle now that has been widely adopted at and accepted.

And what this means functionally, whether you have kids or not, is that if you try to get your, your luxury, that is to say like your hedonic pleasure, any non commoditized products. So like not groceries, maybe not, well, premium groceries are different we have and everything, but like if you’re getting normal stuff, that’s fine.

But anything beyond that at this point. You really shouldn’t turn to products or services that you buy outside your community or household for your happiness because you cannot get it there again. It will either cost, it will cost everything telling

Malcolm Collins: you, or it’ll be crappy. You’re telling you the belief that you are happy.

That is what Disney fundamentally sells people these days. Yeah, but they’re not,

Simone Collins: you’re, you’re not getting happy. You go there and you’re like, well, great. Now I’m in debt. It wasn’t that good of a day. I couldn’t even get into anything because the lines were too long. And, and I’m stressed by the money I did spend.

I mean, people

Malcolm Collins: allow themselves to be sort of brainwashed by it and into believing that they’re doing something good. [00:09:00] Yeah. And that they are happy because otherwise they need to deal with the cognitive dissonance of all the money that they wasted.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I, you know, the other dynamic too is that this is, I think, and I’ll show you in the numbers, this is a relatively new thing that is happening with discretionary goods, with non commoditized goods.

So we, I think a lot of us having, most of, most of the people watching this are like older teens or adults. Had some experience. With more sustainably priced discretionary goods and kind of could for a while get by with getting luxuries and being satisfied from them and getting a premium experience and in a slightly more affordable format.

This was also cheesed by that experience of like. The post.com debt, or sorry tech boom where like VCs were just pumping money into startups that sold luxuries, which in turn were only trying to get market share by making their, their products and services super underpriced. Mm-hmm. So this was back when you could get like an Uber and an Uber meant like a luxury [00:10:00] black car, and it was actually affordable, you know, but like.

That was just because of a, a venture capitalist was subsidizing it. No one could afford that. So I think a lot of us have grown up thinking that we could do this, and now they’re still doing it. Like they’re putting money into the machine and nothing’s coming out and they’re not realizing this. But this, this is your wake up call.

So first let’s just talk about how like out of control things have gotten and how quickly mm-hmm. And we’re gonna look at the price hikes.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Let’s look at the price hikes. Let’s go there.

Simone Collins: So park entrance at Disneyland, 1955. Do you wanna, do you wanna guess what it was? Does it cost adjusted?

Malcolm Collins: I’m gonna guess 50 bucks.

Cost adjusted. Hell, there’s 11

Simone Collins: to $24. $24.

Malcolm Collins: That’s, that’s cost adjusted to modern,

Simone Collins: to, to 2024. Although I, so before, before 1981 in Disney parks, you had to make, set separate purchases for rides. And then the all-inclusive ticket model began in 1981. So if we just look at then, 1981. Still, it was $31 all inclusive [00:11:00] to get in the park.

Then in 1990 it was $72, like around $72 in 2084 in two twenty ten, a hundred and seven. Hmm, in twenty fifteen, one hundred and thirty one in 2024. 104 to 206.

Malcolm Collins: And, and keep in mind, when, when you’re, when you’re, ugh. When you’re looking at these earlier dates and you’re like, but my parents could afford to go to Disney with me when I was a kid, so I wanna do that for my kids.

Because they could. ‘

Simone Collins: cause they

Malcolm Collins: could. They literally could. Yeah. It was a different experience back then.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And

Malcolm Collins: frankly, I think it was a better experience rise wide and I

Simone Collins: loved it. Yeah, it was, it was logistic.

Malcolm Collins: But now, you know, for the same cost. I mean, I’m sure we could just go to Hershey Park or something and

Simone Collins: so I, I will point out actually other USA parks when ingested for inflation the entrance fee increases in US-based Disney parks have significantly outpaced both the national inflation rate.

Yeah. And the price hikes at rival parks such as like Universal Studios and Six Flags. But all major parks have seen double digit increases in the past decade. They are [00:12:00] outpacing. Inflation. And, and, and I can, I can send you a series of tables trying, well, I wanna talk

Malcolm Collins: about Disney, like branded goods as well.

Oh, we’re gonna get to

Simone Collins: that. We’re gonna get to that. But I also first wanna point out just how out of whack things are. Because this is actually a, it’s clearly a Disney strategy and in some other countries, I think this Pareto principle high roller exploitation strategy hasn’t necessarily rolled out because there’s this very interesting case study of Tokyo Disney, which is not owned mm-hmm.

By Disney. It was, it’s like licensed. So while in 2025. The adjusted inflation. Adjusted price of, well, we don’t have to inflation adjust for this of Disney in the USA 189 around to get into like a Disney Park, Tokyo, Disneyland. You wanna guess

Malcolm Collins: Tokyo Disneyland? I don’t, I don’t know what it,

Simone Collins: it’s, it’s, it’s $75.

Oh really? That was, that was the price to get in in approximately 1990. So in [00:13:00] 1990, the inflation adjusted dollar price to get into a park was 72 in the United States. Mm-hmm. So basically, if you want the nineties park experience still. You can literally get it at Tokyo Disney. Same goes for the food.

Yeah. And again, because I’m obsessively, I love watching park reviews. I’ve seen so many influencers like literally do all the numbers fly out to Tokyo and they’re like literally flying to Tokyo and going to Tokyo. Disney costs me less than going to Disneyland, California. Yeah. Which honestly like I so wanna do.

That’s why I’m like, come on, let’s get some kind of prenatal event.

Malcolm Collins: In Japan before they go extinct Tokyo

Simone Collins: Disney. I know, but like Hmm. And also like before Tokyo,

Malcolm Collins: Disney shuts down. ‘cause they’re just like, well, there’s no kids in Japan.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I know, but I mean,

Malcolm Collins: kids don’t go to Disney anymore. Right. You know?

Well, I mean, yeah. At least

Simone Collins: hopefully the Disney adults prop it up. Right. But, but it is really actually, the hotels and everything, they’re gorgeous. It’s super kid friendly. Again, the food is a and, and we’re gonna

Malcolm Collins: be talking about Disney adults in this episode. We’re gonna get to that. [00:14:00]

Simone Collins: I mean, sort of, yeah.

I mean, they’re, they’re part of this because they’re the, they’re the high rollers and that’s why. Were, you know, I mean, I

Malcolm Collins: find that Disney adults fascinating because they actively brand and I think that’s why Disney has moved in this direction.

Mm.

As a luxury brand. They wear their Disney outfits and, and branding so that you know how much money they.

Spent that is part of the point of it. Like wearing a Prada bag or something like that. Oh yeah, yeah. But they’re spending it to enforce a perception of them as Infantalized. This is a brand they want other people to see and think about them. As infantalized individuals connected to some earlier idea of what a good childhood was that they don’t want to have left.

And I think that that’s what the brand fundamentally represents for the groups that engage with it

Simone Collins: and well, yeah, I mean, it, I also see sort of Disney adulting is it’s, it’s very dink, [00:15:00] it’s, it’s very. Refusing to grow up and just choosing to be a kid forever instead of taking responsibility and, you know, maybe kids, I don’t know

Malcolm Collins: about that.

Exactly. When I imagine my classic Disney brand person, I mean, there’s sort of two categories of them. There’s the. Borderline personality, kind of obese woman who’s just obsessed with Disney. Which is one category, you know. Mm-hmm. And then the other category is the beleaguered Mormon mom who used to wear like minion shirts or something.

Yeah.

And I don’t think that that second category is exactly dink, like they’re more just never really wanted to identify as an adult.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no, I, I can see that. Yeah. But I, I also, I, I just, ‘cause this is so fun. I, I wanna highlight park add-ons because this is, this is what caused, for example, Jake of Bright Sun Travel slash Bright Sun Films to pay $42 just to get on a [00:16:00] fricking ride.

So I, I don’t know if you’ve been to a Disney Park when they introduced Fast Passes. This was like between 1999 and 2020. Do you remember these?

Malcolm Collins: W the FastPasses.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So fast pass was this like, it was, I think it was integrated with your park entrance card or something that allowed you to basically like sign up for time slots at a ride.

Malcolm Collins: No, I remember, I remember because of Carmen’s thing where he is like, now you have to stand in lines to stand in

lines.

The

Simone Collins: lines everywhere. The lines. The lines. The lines.

Speaker 8: so then there’s lines for fast pass. You stand in line to get a take it to stand in line later. Then there’s lines for the bathrooms, lines for the drinks, lines for can, and cans.

Simone Collins: I mean that’s what it. That’s what it eventually became. But the original concept of the Fast Pass was actually really awesome because it was designed from, from the, the, the standpoint of how can we get people to not stand in lines, like if they make an appointment.

Yeah. Why?

Malcolm Collins: Why did they drop that?

Simone Collins: Because they realized they can make money off of [00:17:00] that. So the, the first thing was just like, basically you sign up for a time slot. You know how like when you, you’re on hold with a support and they’re like, do you wanna hold or do you want us to call you back? And that is exactly what FastPasses were.

And it just made things work more efficiently. It made it look less crowded. It was great. And they were like, wait. Why aren’t we charging people for this? And so, in, in 2017, they introduced the Max Pass dl which in 2020 $5 was. Basically $13. So like, not too bad. Then it went up to $18 and then they, they introduced the Genie system or Genie Plus system, which then started around $18.

And then in 2022 it was, it was $24. And then in 2023 it was $30. And then in 2024 it was $32, and then it went in 2025, it was, it was $35. And I mean, it makes sense to buy one of these per person. But it’s also just like so insulting if you’re coming with a family and you have all these kids and you’re paying 35, and I [00:18:00] think there’s dynamic pricing too.

So if the park’s extra crowded, you’re paying more. Per person. That really adds up. ‘cause this doesn’t include the food and the hotel and the transportation. It’s just another insult to injury. And then it’s, it’s also not just to your point, Disney Park stuff. Oh, oh. Though I did send you Disney food.

Prices, just so you could see. Oh, because the park meals are insane. So in 2014, I’m just gonna give you some like very classic Disney food comparisons. Okay. Okay. But you can also look at the food menus that I sent to you, just to see like what they’re

Malcolm Collins: now, oh my God. Mm-hmm. Sorry, I’m looking at one of these.

It is literally a frozen, oh, the, okay. Yeah. So back, I guess this is an older one. A frozen banana is 6 25. Oh, my God’s popcorn is $13.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, in a, in a commemorative plastic bucket though. So, I mean, this is why, this is literally why we bought a cotton candy machine, because we cannot bear to buy [00:19:00] candy at a venue like

Malcolm Collins: logger is $10.

Simone Collins: I mean, you need to be sloshed to deal with that kind of stress though. So in 2014 there’s a, there, there’s this place called Santa Bread Service. The, their inflation adjusted 2025 price was, was about $13 now, or as of 2024 it’s $22. How about corn dog nuggets? They were $6 and 68 in 2014. Now they’re $11, almost twice as much.

Don’t whip. Classic Disney treat. Yeah. In 2014, $5 and 36. Now it’s $6 and 43. A Mickey Pretzel. Used to be in 2024, $6 and 15 cents. I mean, it’s still insane to pay $6 and 15 cents for a freaking soft pretzel. Now it’s $8 and 68 cents. 2019, an adult table dinner at be our guest was 68 20. Now it is $72.

And I [00:20:00] mean, people are going with their kids, you know, their kids are like not eating any, they’re asking for like chicken nuggets. They’re eating two of them. They’re not, and that’s the thing, you

Malcolm Collins: know, you’re not even eating them.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. But you, I mean, to get the table, you have to pay for everyone. You can’t just be like, our kids aren’t eating, which is what we always do at restaurant when we’re at restaurants.

I do a restaurant,

Malcolm Collins: I’m, yeah, you don’t like eating at restaurants. I’m like, I’ll have the soup. And they’re like, what do you mean you’ll have this soup? And I’m like, that’s all. Oh my God, my God. Yeah.

Simone Collins: No, even when you and I just go to restaurants, like I won’t eat, and you’ll order like an appetizer and they get so mad.

And then when we go with our kids, maybe both you and I will have an appetizer and their kids will pick off of our plates. And they’re like, but what about the children? And we’re like, ah. Like, they don’t eat this anyway. I’m not, I’m not doing this. But the, yeah, the price increases have been insane. It’s, it’s been really hard for people to go in and like, the problem is, even if you’re responsible, even if you bring snacks, your kids, like, they want the freaking Mickey Waffle, they want the Mickey Pretzel, they want the Mickey ice [00:21:00] cream.

Like they are gonna be so mad at you. I mean, like, we struggle to take our kids to grocery stores because as much as we’re like, no, only for special occasions, well, they always want a toy.

Malcolm Collins: The whole thing just looks like such a chore. So, yeah. No, it’s so

Simone Collins: stressful. So then they have the fast pass Disney Plus though.

So like, we’re just talking like, what if you just wanna be a Disney fan from afar, right? You’re like, okay, I’m gonna go, like, we’re, we’re not gonna leave our house. I, I love Disney as a kid, so let’s just get Disney Plus. But it’s gone up from 2019. It was 8 67 inflation adjusted. Now it’s 1899

Malcolm Collins: what, per month?

Pretty

Simone Collins: expensive. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That’s why we don’t get Disney Plus anymore.

Simone Collins: Yeah, dude. And just to go more into the Disney debt that people go into for Disney vacations. ‘cause this is just so sobering to me, and this is again, this is why like, even if you’re like, okay, well this is my, my one thing, this is where I’m going to get all of my hedonic pleasure.

No, it’s it, you’re only gonna end up hurting yourself. 24% of [00:22:00] Disney Park attendees have taken on debt for their trip. That’s up from 18% in 2022. Wow. So that, I think that really goes to show that even in just three years, it’s become so financially unsustainable that that many more people are like willingness, like credit card debt.

45% of parents of children under 18 have gone into debt for a Disney trip that’s up from 30% in 2022. The average Disney related debt for parents of young children. Is nine 1000 900 983 per trip. And debt mosts commonly covers concessions and, and transportation and accommodations. So they’re just, they’re, they’re going into debt to buy pretzels to buy an overpriced.

Pretzel an an $8 pretzel, 83% of indebted parents incurred their Disney debt within the past five years. Gen Z, that’s like 39%. And, and millennials, 36% are likeliest to take on Disney debt while only 70, or sorry, well, only 7% of boomers do. So basically almost like getting, getting close to, [00:23:00] well, well over a third of Gen Z.

Millennials can’t do Disney without getting into debt. So if you see a young person at Disney. One outta three of them is going into debt to be there. Like, just look to your left, look to your right. One of the three of you stop in debt or more debt. And while most families can pay off their Disney related debt within six months nearly 60% report percent

Malcolm Collins: don’t pay it off.

No, sorry.

Simone Collins: No. Nearly 60%. Report. No regrets. And that’s where we get to the Disney delusion. And this is, this is where we get to this, this this, this delusion that I want this episode to be a wake up call. And this whole thing has been a wake up call for me to dispel because people are so brainwashed into Disney fandom.

We would argue is analogous to any facet of modern mainstream culture, that Disney is able to exploit them in a myriad of ways and it will never be enough. Like these people are going into debt to buy a fricking pretzel and they’re happy about it. They have [00:24:00] no regrets. They’re like Yolo Disney on the way.

This is,

Malcolm Collins: you know, we’ve been doing some videos about like the nihilism of like shooters and stuff like that, and I’m like, this is somehow more nihilistic than the nihilism I see in like satanic shooters and stuff like that. I know like this was a good use of my time and money, especially when you consider all the suffering and pain that’s going on in the world that they could be working towards or any scientific progress.

They could be pushing forwards.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They’re like, oh, that is worth it. I mean, it’s almost

Malcolm Collins: as bad as the Everest Kliner see our Everest episode, where we’re just like, you have to be with this psychopath. And one, when you

Simone Collins: walk around Disney parks, you’re not, people aren’t looking thrilled. And I watch a lot of Disney footage.

Yeah, yeah. You

Malcolm Collins: don’t see a lot of happy people at Disney. I’m gonna, you don’t, you don’t see a lot of happy people. I saw. Not the

Simone Collins: happiest place on earth.

Malcolm Collins: I saw, honestly. Harry Potter World, way more happy. Oh my

Simone Collins: God, yes. Because people are just so fricking impressed by everything. It’s, yeah. Yeah. You’re like, oh, this

Malcolm Collins: has done quite well.

You just watch it and you’re like, this was worth the money. Like, do you walk around Harry Potter World? We were

Simone Collins: [00:25:00] legit impressed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you’re

Malcolm Collins: like. Oh my God. Like this is pretty, and I think you see Harry Potter World for me represents the failure of Disney in many ways because they had the contract to do that.

And JK Rowling, yeah, they went over their plans. Yeah. And she goes, this is just a few themed rides. This is not what people want.

Yeah.

They want an immersive world. Yes. And Disney was like, nobody does that. JK Rawling. That’s crazy. JK Rawling. Well, but then don’t

Simone Collins: forget. Disney tried, actually succeeded in creating an immersive world.

Or like, remember the Star Wars Hotel they created, but it sucked. They made it this like, you’re locked into these windowless tiny rooms and, and then forced to go into these. Like, it was just terrible. And then it shut down ‘cause it was that bad. So yeah, it’s Disney.

Malcolm Collins: It showed also like an out of touchness with what parts of their brands.

Work with people, what parts of their brands don’t work with people? I mean, I’ve watched a lot of the Star Wars Hotel. Walkthroughs or like people who did the [00:26:00] whole thing. Yeah, they’re fun, they’re delightful. They’re, you know, you, you watch it. And I’m just glad that I’m not running around trying to do these stupid unfinished games that somebody desperately program.

Oh my God.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It seems like homework. I don’t, yeah. Or like, talk again, we’ve talked about this in another episode. Talk with actors. Oh my God. Character lunches or character interactions in general make me so, but the thing is, is you can

Malcolm Collins: just go if you want that form of immersiveness. Yeah. So like your local medieval fair or like fantasy would Oh my God.

Yeah. Go to your

Simone Collins: re fair and Ren fairs are so much more

Malcolm Collins: No, actually Simone, there’s like this cool thing that they do now where people like rent out castles and like everybody goes in like period attire and like you, you’re supposed to like larp the whole time. You could do this if you live in the UK and the US will have like castle like things.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. I’m like, what castle are you talking about? No, there’s

Malcolm Collins: castle like things throughout the US that people will use to do this. And it’s like a whole thing.

Simone Collins: That sounds fun. I still don’t wanna interact with people, but I mean, in theory it sounds fun, but yeah. So you, you, you had mentioned Disney merchandise and [00:27:00] people walking this morning.

Malcolm Collins: Oh God. Are, aren’t these people coming today to work with him? No. Okay, good. Okay. Sorry, our kids are

Simone Collins: really sick. No, yeah, we’re, we’re good. I, I’ve got all that. I, I, I get the admin. I can definitely do the admin if you do the if you’re on the, if you’re in the splash zone. I’m like behind in like the tech booth.

Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins: Shame’s getting all over you though. So, I just sent you a link and a, a screenshot from the Disney official Disney merchandise store just to show you how like. Into the delusion, you know, people wanna go. I think the classic thing that people feel really,

Malcolm Collins: oh, that is not fun.

So simple headbands, Disney button Doy and burka ear headband is $198.

Simone Collins: Doy and burka make this a thing. Yeah, no, but like seriously there there are some Mickey Mouse ears. ‘cause when you walk through the park, you wanna get Mickey Mouse ears ‘cause everyone has them. And you’re like, I. I wanna be in the spirit.

So people buy these, the average, like a typical price for [00:28:00] mousers that aren’t like discounted and pathetic, which are more around like $25. A typical price is 44. But yeah, the, you can spend $200 way more. Wow. There, there are many other ways though, that Disney will find ways to extract money from, from people.

I’ve watched really in-depth videos, for example, on the Disney Vacation Club. Because I don’t know if you knew, but Disney has a robust timeshare model. They have expanded resorts and enhanced member exclusive experiences. Like these are people who like, literally, like it is a Disney lifestyle. They, they own part of the Disney property.

And now if you’ve bought into the Disney Vacation Club, oh, it’s not like, you know, you already spent, I don’t know what, $200,000 some, some crazy amount, right? For your timeshare. Yeah, which you still have to pay probably fees to maintain, but now they’re extracting additional money out of you with, with DVC resale and with rentals and then with points-based enhancement enhancements.

So like it’s never enough. Then also in parks, they’re what they call like, and literally this is a product [00:29:00] class called Enchanting Extra. And, and this includes exclusive fireworks views and private tours and premium lounges and animal encounters and adventure activities that require advanced reservations and, and, and in-person fees and dessert events.

And then there are also the very special dining events, exclusive restaurants to club lounges. Like there’s the Pirates of the Caribbean Tavern, spaceship Earth, earth Lounge their after hours parties. There are all these things that like. If you really want the good experience, if you wanna feel like you’re having the Disney magic, it’s there, but only if you spend insane amounts of money.

And this is, this is why this exploitative behavior is both logical and also kind of inevitable in if we’re talking about efficient markets. Like I don’t blame Disney for doing this, and Disney’s actually really transparent about their approach. So. Basically they, they’re very open about their focus on going for [00:30:00] fewer wealthier guests.

Disney’s data shows that the top 10% of US earners now account for half of all customer spending. So park’s focus on affluent demographics who can pay for new premium experiences, suites and costly add-ons. Just 10% of. US earners, half of consumer spending. Wow. And, and so, and, and this is for, for everyone, right?

So they know this, they see this as a truism, as a market dynamic. And they’re like, well, I’m gonna be dumb. Like I’m, I am failing my fiduciary responsibility if I don’t cater to them,

Malcolm Collins: if I don’t kick out the pores.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And also, I, I

Malcolm Collins: think this is really gonna hurt them, and I’ll explain why. Mm-hmm. Okay.

What Disney does not understand is. When Disney converts a a, a Disney person into the Disney brand and lifestyle. Okay. That really has to be done before the age of I’d say 15.

Yeah.

Disney does not make Disney adults. Disney makes. [00:31:00] Disney Children who, who become Disney adults were taken by their parents as young kids who watch Disney movies and stuff like that as young kids.

But now that they are gating a huge chunk of the population, especially the population with lots of kids, even by making

Simone Collins: Disney Plus so expensive too. Yes. Like I can think that at least there’s that pipeline, like at least you can have like your remote propaganda pipeline.

Malcolm Collins: So they’re making themselves irrelevant in the long term because their portion of the population that has fond memories of Disney, what Disney is selling you when they sell you the Disney quote unquote.

Magic is the magic of childhood. It is trying to bring you back to your childhood.

Yeah.

And, and into nostalgia experiences that you thought were special during your childhood. If you don’t have the Disney evoked set from childhood, they can’t do that.

Simone Collins: I don’t know, because even children are pretty sensitive to the concept of luxury items.

And now that Disney is a luxury item, I think that it will get into their mind share. [00:32:00] But let me, let me also just, I don’t like Disney. Again, also, companies are not CEOs, right? Their incentive packages are not incentivized for what happens 20 years from now. And you know this, you know, it, their incentive packages have to do with this year.

So they’re not gonna be, I mean, that may be true, they may be fully acknowledging that, but the, the company can, is incapable based on the way that incentive packages are set up based on the way that shareholders behave. Of making that proactive plan. And recent quarterly annual reports show that Disney parks are earning record profits with attendance still below pre pandemic levels.

So they’ve never recovered past pandemic. They just charge record profits. Yes, because they’re squeezing so much out people because of their massive increases in per capita guest spending on upcharges in hotels and foods and special services. And that results means that you’re just getting more from fewer, you have to do less work.

To take care of these people. And they’re also engaging in active [00:33:00] price optimization. There’s a lot of discussing a discussion online now about dynamic pricing. Disney’s doing it too. They have dynamic date-based pricing. There are high price increases for skip the line add-ons, and they have a stream of upcharge and revenue repeatedly rises even when traffic is flat or falls.

And their executives are explicitly acknowledging this strategy of, of maximizing revenue from each. No,

Malcolm Collins: I mean, so Disney’s parks are like their big cash cow. Yeah. When contrasted with their, their television brand and everything like that. Yeah. Disney tv. There’s been some talk recently even that they’ve shut down basically their animation division.

So they’re not doing animated television stuff anymore, or like Disney, Disney TV stuff in a classical sense anymore. Mm-hmm. And this, this is not great. For, for Disney going forward. It’s like they have a few active shows but I, I can’t remember the context, but it was basically like there isn’t really a future for them given the way that they’ve structured the team at this point.

And their shows just keep bombing over and over and over again. You know, whether they’re Pixar, Disney, or anything like that. We’ve seen, [00:34:00] well this is, despite

Simone Collins: the fact that actually I, I saw some graphs, I didn’t, I didn’t grab them for this interview, but spending on production through Disney Plus and their other like media stuff has actually gone up.

Yeah. One of the reasons why we’re seeing Disney plus hike price hikes, I think it’s actually less about extracting extra money from the customer and more about the fact that they’re paying more for original new content. So I, I think that they are aware of the fact that good media properties are crucial if they want to maintain.

You know, some kind of base and not lose the middle class, because then now middle class,

Malcolm Collins: like they’ve, they’ve clearly taken a quote unquote side in the culture wars. Like we talk about the rehiring of Jimmy Kimmel, right? Yeah. Who,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Lied on air. There was an there apologize for lying,

Simone Collins: boycott in response to Jimmy Kimmel’s firing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which we, we pointed out in the episode he had lower ratings than most talk shows had when they were canceled. Yeah. He himself said he expected to not have his contract renewed. It wasn’t that he attacked Trump or [00:35:00] Charlie Kirk. He just lied about an assassination attempt and then refused to apologize and they still take him back, which I think Disney getting involved with the culture wars was a huge unforced error on their part.

Simone Collins: They got involved with the court culture wars. Way before that though, I mean the whole, all the Star Wars stuff that happened.

Malcolm Collins: Well no, of course. But the problem is, is they got involved with the side that had a lot of Disney adults and very few people who have kids. And that made sense from a selling more to this luxury brand audience.

But it makes a brand long-term irrelevant. I do not think that Disney is going to be a particularly relevant, like it may still own a lot of stuff, but particularly relative, relevant from a brand perspective within our children’s generation.

Simone Collins: I, I do, I do think that they should be doing a lot more to. Be accessible to children, because even now, actually when we see like Disney licensed products, like we were just in BJ’s the other day, getting our [00:36:00] normal groceries, our seven gallons of milk for a couple of days.

And we, we saw these, these rubber ducks, which our kids love. And I was like, oh my God, why are these so expensive? ‘cause it was a really expensive pack. And then we realized it was crazy expensive because it was like Elsa duck and, and it looked really

Malcolm Collins: poor quality too.

Simone Collins: Well, they looked really crappy, but also like, yeah.

If we can’t, like our kids actually are not into any Disney properties, and it’s not that we’re like trying to shield them. I mean, glee’s way better obviously and other stuff. But like, we just, we can’t afford it. We’re not, we’re not gonna spend that much more for, for ducks that have Disney theming. So our kids don’t know Disney characters.

I mean, for this one period, one of our kids, oh, Octavian really loved watching a Little Mermaid, but he kept calling her worm. The

Malcolm Collins: Worm Worm movie. But the problem is, is that kids today just seem to react so much better to hide kajima, or not hide Kajima, what’s the one I’m thinking of? Studio

Simone Collins: Ghibli.

Malcolm Collins: Studio Ghibli stuff. Than.

Simone Collins: No, they always have. They always have. It’s [00:37:00] just, it’s just, it’s just superior. I don’t know what to say. And that’s, again, that’s just children’s attention. We have a Japanese pro list, like family trip or like conference ‘cause then there’s the Ghibli Park. There’s so many amazing resorts for kids in Japan and they’re.

Affordable, but they’re amazing. Oh, ooh. Anyway, it drives me nuts. Yeah. But, okay. So while I agree with you that Disney is shooting itself in the foot probably because it, it, the way that it works is it has this like child to adult pipeline. Most discretionary goods totally work like this and are going to continue work like this.

And it is a sustainable model for them, not for us as consumers, for them. Basically if you’re not selling a commodity, it’s more logical to charge more and double down on high rollers that are honestly spending themselves into holes mm-hmm. Than than budget conscious spenders and a large majority of businesses, especially.

Very specifically not, not people selling commoditized products. So like, just like normal low priced milk, like Walmart, [00:38:00] gas stations, electricity, like that’s, you know, that’s fine. They, they generate most of their income from a minority of clients. So if we look at like, okay, Gucci luxury product most of it’s sales.

Come from its top 20% of customers luxury industry analysts. Frequently estimate that the top 20% of customers can account to 70 to 80% of revenues and profits on ultra high end segments. Casinos. Classic example overwhelmingly depend on their top 20% of customers for their profits. With recent studies showing that this segment is responsible for around 90% or more of total operator revenue, especially in online casino settings, the top 20% of let’s just take something, you know, nerdy let more homegrown like magic, the gathering, right?

Yeah. The, the, they’re like 20 top 20% of magic buyers termed whales are estimated gen to generate 70 to 80%. So this is Gucci levels. Of their total set. That is

Malcolm Collins: fascinating.

Simone Collins: Supporting these discussions among magic analysts and [00:39:00] financial communities indicate that brand that relies heavily on the core of highly engaged high spending customers who purchase large quantities of cards and premium sets and exclusive product offerings like secret layer drops.

And well, so Magic is owned by Hasbro. They, they don’t, you know, exactly give very detailed reports. Mm-hmm. But they definitely provide evidence of rising average transaction values. That have outsized revenue growth from basically premium sets and products that are only being bought by like this super fan.

And this even applies to like literally stuff that I would guess are assumed to be more commoditized, but there’s still discretionary goods, like phone apps, like just fricking mobile games analysts have found that there’s like a a 25 to 65 rule in the Apple app store with 25% of customers responsible for 65% of spending.

Just for apps, which, which is, is crazy. And the, the key balance for these businesses is to reduce the risk of losing those, you know, I mean like [00:40:00] obviously when you have a more concentrated customer base of just like a few high rollers. Yeah. The risk is that if you lose enough of them, alienate enough of them, you’re really, really screwed.

You know, you don’t have this diversified portfolio, but as long as you’re like pretty careful, you’re okay. And then basically this, this incentivizes companies. To just give a crappy experience to budget customers because if anything, they’re a burden. They’re crowding things up, they’re wasting your time when you could be spending your time better targeting and better serving the ones who have the money and can spend the money.

So if you’re buying non-essentials and you’re not a high roller, you’re just gonna get an intrinsically crummy experience. And this matters because. Basically if, if you try to buy your happiness through products or services outside your community, outside your family, you’re just not gonna, either you’re gonna like, blow all your money and still not be happy.

Or you’re [00:41:00] gonna blow your money and get a crappy experience. Yeah. And, and this is, it makes me so much happier that we have. Like made kind of the financial decision to kind of stop traveling, stop going on trips and stop, like we used to take our kids to like trampoline parks and museums and things like that, and, and we kind of had this experience, but we, we didn’t really get it.

You know, like, well, you know, this, this trampoline park is only really gonna be fun if we drop a hundred dollars at the arcade and then buy the pizza. And like, you know, get them the VIP pass so they can go on this fun part of it that’s otherwise roped off, right? Like everything is becoming like this. And the fact that I’ve now looked at this dynamic is that the the Buffalo Buffalo Ranch, I’m saving this as my, like for what, like five bags that I bought is my.

Post C-section reward. I have to like,

Malcolm Collins: oh, you know what’s up.

Simone Collins: Yeah, set some.

Malcolm Collins: She loves saving things for later. Delayed [00:42:00] gratification is like her cocaine.

Simone Collins: It’s how I get through things. It’s how I, it’s my carrot. I need my carrot. Just walk around with that.

Malcolm Collins: Why Carrot is doing what I want when I want.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no.

Like literally we got home from Trader Joe’s and that bag immediately was opened. But you, unlike me, had like one bite and then rolled it up and put it in your food cabinet where it’s like, yeah. If you knew how much I’ve eaten today already

Malcolm Collins: you look

gned.

Simone Collins: I, yeah, I, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The baby’s taking it all.

Simone Collins: He, he is actually taking it all.

I, I

Malcolm Collins: swear they’re gonna open you up again and be like, this is so much bigger than we thought.

Simone Collins: Yeah, my, okay, so my guess is