E Stone • Well Seasoned: Pro Files

On today's episode of Pro Files: Well Seasoned - E Stone. He got his start as an aspiring pro with a number of flow sponsorships. Upon graduating high school he promptly moved to colorado - in no small part to watching the seminal Mack Dawg film The Hard, The Hungry and the Homeless. And in his first season out West he started what many would consider one of the important brands in the history of the sport Tech 9. In this episode we hear all about the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur in the sport of snowboarding. 

Indeed, starting a brand is no get rich quick scheme as many might expect - it is in fact lon g hours, empty bank accounts - and doing something you believe in.

During his time running Tech 9 Ethan picked up another skill - becoming a photographer - then senior photographer for snowboarder Magazine.

But riders want to ride - and E Stone is a rider, starting The Bombhole podcast with pro snowboarder Chris Grenier. 

This is an interesting episode - the backstory of a legend in the sport, lessons from playing multiple positions across the industry and healthy passion for the fun of snowboarding.

Today's episode brought to you by

Artilect

http://artilect.studio

Cardiff Snowcraft

http://cardiffsnow.com

Tow Pro Lifts

http://towpro-lifts.com

Owner Operator

HTTP://owneroperator.us

United Shapes 

http://unitedshapes.us

686 Outerwear

http://686.com

Electrovoice Microphones

http://electrovoice.com

 

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M

Mark_sullivan00:03

Yeah, I got. I got a few good ones that tookck this one out theres. one got sponsored for this one.

E

Ethan00:08

Really?

M

Mark_sullivan00:09

This is uh, electro voice

M

Mark_sullivan00:12

y. That's a good mike. too.

M

Mark_sullivan00:14

this is the Mac Daddy. Though,

E

Ethan00:16

that thing looks dude.

M

Mark_sullivan00:19

Yeah, so too ki. what you got? Yeah,

E

Ethan00:20

Yes, sorry, it took me a minute to get this all figured out.

M

Mark_sullivan00:25

worries that worries.

E

Ethan00:26

Not used to talking to about myself. You know what I mean. so it's uh,

M

Mark_sullivan00:29

I know we're going to change that right here. It looks like you got some sound padding on the walls there behind you, too.

E

Ethan00:36

that's not what it

M

Mark_sullivan00:36

that's

E

Ethan00:37

is. It's some mirrors or something,

E

Ethan00:40

and I got a dog next to me.

M

Mark_sullivan00:43

nice. nice.

M

Mark_sullivan00:45

right on. Well, uh, you know, maybe we should kick this thing off Interview with E. Ste, normally a guy who's behind a Mike. asking people questions today. I' get to ask him some questions. How you doing today? Ethan,

E

Ethan00:57

I'm doing good a little nervous.

M

Mark_sullivan01:00

Little nervous. Why are you nervous today?

E

Ethan01:02

I don't know, dude. I'm not used to talking about myself' chilling here with

M

Mark_sullivan01:08

Okay?

E

Ethan01:08

the O. Know,

M

Mark_sullivan01:10

Oh nice.

E

Ethan01:12

he doesn't talk though

M

Mark_sullivan01:13

Oh yeah.

E

Ethan01:13

he's not order of the interview.

M

Mark_sullivan01:15

yeah.

E

Ethan01:16

You just want to laugh.

M

Mark_sullivan01:16

you always got to have a dog as part of the interview. Though

E

Ethan01:19

Yeah, true.

M

Mark_sullivan01:19

that always makes sense.

E

Ethan01:21

Yeah, so I'm

M

Mark_sullivan01:22

So

E

Ethan01:22

a little nervous, but I'm hyy. to talk with you.

M

Mark_sullivan01:26

right on. Well, I'll make it pretty easy on you because I'll just roll back to right in the beginning of your snowboarding career. Um. Arizona Snowball. How did you get there and what were you doing snowboarding in Arizona?

E

Ethan01:38

How did you know I was in Arizona?

M

Mark_sullivan01:41

I know these things.

E

Ethan01:42

You know these things. you know. I went there with Bloto. Um. he grew up there,

E

Ethan01:48

So I was living with him in Vail at the time and we kind of had a bunch of similar sponsors and uh, oh no, let me trace this back. Actually, I went. I, I met Bloto there. I'm I'm actually wrong. I'm a little. uh. I got some memory issues so that's where I met Bloto. I was traveling around with. Uh,

E

Ethan02:09

I think they were called Hollywood films at the time,

M

Mark_sullivan02:12

Mhm.

E

Ethan02:13

and Uh,

E

Ethan02:15

kind of working on my first time filming snowboarding

E

Ethan02:19

And it was Uh, Rick and Tillion was the filmer and uh, I think I just jumped in the car with these guys that went on a filming trip.

E

Ethan02:29

I think that was when I got my first photo in East Infection

E

Ethan02:33

with your magazine, was actually on that same trip. But yeah, we stopped in Snowball, and uh Bloto just happened to be there and started shooting with us.

E

Ethan02:43

And uh, that place was awesome.

E

Ethan02:47

I think Uh,

M

Mark_sullivan02:48

I would say. actually, that mag that mag was play or mag, because I got a copy of it right here.

E

Ethan02:52

Player magazine, not East infection. Yeah, it was your magazine All right.

M

Mark_sullivan02:57

Yeah, Yeah, that was my mag back in the day.

M

Mark_sullivan03:00

You know that that's how I got started. But you were actually one of the writers we featured in that mag.

E

Ethan03:05

That was probably my first published photo anywhere.

E

Ethan03:09

It was like a seven twenty sequence or something. I don't think it was

M

Mark_sullivan03:13

Yup,

E

Ethan03:13

at. Uh in Arizona. I was on the way to Arizona, somewhere in Utah, I think,

E

Ethan03:18

but uh, yeah, that was awesome.

M

Mark_sullivan03:19

So you had dreams, though of being like a pro writer, being filming movie parts doing the whole thing.

E

Ethan03:24

Yeah, I moved out from Vermont, Kinda got fueled by the hard, Go hungry and the Homeless. That movie I think that came out when I was in eleventh grade

E

Ethan03:35

and uh, kinda just made me want to move to where those guys were And that was Bracken Ridge, and uh, right when I graduated from high school, I just made the move. I actually graduated a half year early, so I could get out there even sooner, and uh, I remember when I told my mom she straight up cried 'cause I wasn't going to go to college.

E

Ethan03:56

and uh, she just thought I was throwing away my life and there was no future,

E

Ethan04:00

but I did it anyways and just uh made the move to. We couldn't get to Brack and Ridge where we wanted to move 'cause all the housing was filled up, so we uh, moved to Vale, which actually ended up being dove because we kind of met a really good community with people like ▁j two and Nj, Adam Merriman, um Tarquin, And uh, yes, I was just kind of following that dream of trying to become a pro snowboarder,

M

Mark_sullivan04:29

So what kind of job did you work in Vail when you first arrived?

E

Ethan04:33

all dishwashing,

E

Ethan04:35

and

M

Mark_sullivan04:35

All dishwashing.

E

Ethan04:35

Uh, Hydro ceramic technician was the uh, official term, but uh yet,

M

Mark_sullivan04:41

Okay,

E

Ethan04:41

basically you know in Vale there there's a lot of tourism. Obviously, this, it's a lot different than it was. Uh than it is. Now you know, now it's even crazier. but back then I mean the only jobs were really working for the mountain or working for Uh, a restaurant

E

Ethan04:57

and I lived, Uh, moved out there with all Egu lay, and then a couple of other good friends from Vermont, and we all just got dishwashing jobbs. I think we had eight of us in a two almos, seven of us in a two bedroom in Uh, Avon, Colorado, which is just right next to Vale,

E

Ethan05:14

and Uh,

M

Mark_sullivan05:14

and were you a sponsored writer at the time? do you like sponsored?

E

Ethan05:17

when I moved out there, No sponsors. Um,

E

Ethan05:21

but quickly

E

Ethan05:23

through meeting people like ▁j two and all that you got introduced to a lot of different raps and picked up some sponsors. Um, I got picked up by six, eight, six pretty early, and that's how Uh. Bloto was riding for them as well, so I think that's why we met him at Snowball Snowball and Uh, Scott boards, and

E

Ethan05:44

Um,

E

Ethan05:46

I was kind of like a rap rider for Original Sin, but I wouldn't consider that sponsored. like when I moved out from Vermont, Just like a little bit of board flow. You know,

M

Mark_sullivan05:56

Okay? So you're in Colorado. You're starting to shoot video. You are starting to take photos. You know. I mean, at what point did you decide that like? Okay, Actually, I'm going to start a binding company Because

E

Ethan06:10

you know that.

M

Mark_sullivan06:10

you started that pretty early on in Vail.

E

Ethan06:12

Yeah, we actually started that our first year living in Vale, and uh, what we were doing was go in the Home Depot and getting metal brackets, and my buddy from high school. ▁j, three would kind of cut them into the parts we needed to make the first baseless bindings, and uh, we would use straps from just whatever available binding was out there, and the highbas as well, And then at the Uh, he worked at the Beaver Creek. Uh, he was a snowmaker and W had access to like the shop at Beaver Creek, the workshop, and was able to use like a metal bender to. We would just cut like diamond plate metal into uh heel cups and then bend themem on this uh bending machine they had up there, And so we had kind of the first baseless bindings going, And he made Paris for myself and for Tarquin and forer all, Lee and uh, My dad came out and saw what we were doing and he was like, Oh, I could help you guys get these made, actually manufactured for real, and uh, so we made some samples and then we went to Uh, the trade show that year, which I was eighteen. So this was like nineteen ninety four. We went to the trade show in San Diego,

E

Ethan07:27

and Uh didn't have a booth or anything. We were just kind of walking around and we met a uh, Japanese distributor and they saw what we had, and Uh instantly made a giant order and all of a sudden we were just a company and they ended up being our distributor for the the whole time we were a company, too, which was pretty cool. So like twenty three years or something,

M

Mark_sullivan07:47

Okay, so how long did you like try to wear two hats in that you were trying to be a team rider for different brands and then you were starting your own brand? How long did you keep both of those balls in the air?

E

Ethan07:57

I would say until uh, around ninety nine two thousand, I moved out to Co, to Utah from Colorado, and Uh, the mountains out here were a bit different than Colorado, As as people know, they're a little bit more aggressive. The jumps got a little bit bigger and snowboarding got a little more serious. I was riding with Marco a lot, kind of following him off jumps and he was just so good and I would end up, you know, trying to go as big as him and then just eating shit. End up worked after the day, like barely able to walk. trying to follow Marco. You know, so I kind of realized I just wasn't on this dues level and maybe I should start focusing on Uh, Tech Nine a little bit more, and at the same time, Bloto kind of uh, gave me a camera, so I started shooting photos as well, which got me to be able to still be out with guys like Marco, but not, uh, didn't work.

M

Mark_sullivan08:53

Was that his nice way of being like your riding is and cutting it?

E

Ethan08:57

No, he. it was actually, he. Uh, He had gone to the East coast. He was working for Tech Nine at the time as our team manager and he kind of snuck off to the East Coast for a meeting with Burton, and uh, I think he felt bad that he was taking the job and leaving Tech Nine, so he just handed me down his camera. But yeah, maybe it was a kind of a nice way to say, Maybe maybe you're not uh as good as the rest of the te.

M

Mark_sullivan09:21

Okay So so now you're running Tech nine and you are starting to learn how to be a photographer? Take us through that of like what it was like to, actually, you know, get your chops developed for taking photos of. People, how long did that take?

E

Ethan09:33

You know, I was pretty blessed. In that sense, I was able to uh, go out with guys like Kevin ▁zacher, and Nate Christensson, who were top photographers at the time. I used to shoot with them on the other side of the camera, so they let me come out, and uh, kinda just stand right next to him and ask him any question I wanted And why they were doing what they were doing and what their settings were.

E

Ethan09:59

And and Ah, they basically topy the ropes, and I think both of them went to photo school, so they're pretty well trained at what they were doing. I know, ▁zacher did for sure. Um, so yeah, I just got to stand there and and was able to ask them anything, and and learn pretty fast and shoot the top talent that they uh were shooting. so uh, eventually they were kind of like man, you gotta. you're getting better shots than we are. You gotta kinda get off on your own. now you know that eventually they, they sent me away, But at first they were as cool as it, kids, and taught me everything I needed to know about flashes and light. It was filmed too, so it was a little bit harder than digy. and uh, yeah, they really gave me everything I needed to know, And's why when photographers asked me questions now I'm always really nice about answering them. because Uh, those guys did that for me, you know, 'cause some guys

M

Mark_sullivan10:51

Yeah,

E

Ethan10:51

like Andy Wright was a little more competitive. He would never let me come out with them.

M

Mark_sullivan10:56

Okay, so

M

Mark_sullivan10:55

no, okay, but you're still friends with Andy Wright, Correct.

E

Ethan10:58

Yeah, no, Andy's the man he was. He was kind of the top top photographer in the streets for all those years, so it was uh, always shooting with the people I wanted to be shooting with too, so I kind of got his scraps for for years, which uh

M

Mark_sullivan11:12

Oh yes,

E

Ethan11:12

ended up working out.

M

Mark_sullivan11:14

so what was that like? Like? If you were going to go go to a spot to shoot photos Andy Rightr was already there. Did you have to kind of turn tail and go go home?

E

Ethan11:23

Yeah, it was pretty competitive and then, even as they got more competitive with, uh, I think in Utah, back then there was like ten photographers living here. Um, so you had to have your crew like lined up, or else you wouldn't have anyone to shoot. And Uh, obviously the Ridrs wanted the most established photographers they could have. So for a new photographer it was always pretty hard. Um, but you just had to keep fning.

M

Mark_sullivan11:47

So so who was that crew? Who were the guys that you would shoot with regularly?

E

Ethan11:51

Um. You know what one one thing I had that a lot of people didn't have is they had access to the Tech Nine team, so that did help me out a bit of. If Andy was out with a bunch of yii' crew, let's say, or, uh, robot food or something, then I would always have whatever tech Nine Ridrs were hanging around, and then at the same time Cole kind of started f o d t. So that was always a crew for me to to kind of join up with no matter what, and he was always kind of grabbing new riders that no one had heard of at at the time, like Daryl Mathis or Justin Habble, who ended up becoming big pros. so no one knew who they were at that time when I was shooting them. During the time they were kind of cutting their teeth and figuring it out, so it kind of just all worked out. I

M

Mark_sullivan12:39

right? So who? who was your first photo published? And how long did it take From the time you picked up a camera Ti, the time you actually got a photo published.

E

Ethan12:37

guesse I think it was pretty quick and uh, my memories is horrible. but I want to say it might have been Bobby Meeks at Brighton, and uh, it was like the first year I was shooting. Um. He was my roommate at the time, so I had access to like him in blue, Montgomery and Cody Dresser, and and people like that, But yeah, I think uh, it happened that first year. Um in snowboarder

M

Mark_sullivan13:09

Okay, Okay,

E

Ethan13:09

magazine. Imagine you were working there at the time.

M

Mark_sullivan13:13

I probably was. If it was around two thousand, two thousand One was there.

E

Ethan13:17

Yeah, I can't

M

Mark_sullivan13:18

So

E

Ethan13:18

remember who the photo editor might have beent Baker, But no, it, George

M

Mark_sullivan13:22

Mhm,

E

Ethan13:22

Cavala, Actually,

M

Mark_sullivan13:23

Okay, then I was. I was there.

E

Ethan13:24

and I knew him from back in Vermont, too, so I think that kind of helped when I sent in my stack. You know,

M

Mark_sullivan13:30

Okay. so let me ask you about this. Like going back to the Tech nine days, You know, Techn had like a pretty, um, unique image in the sport when that kind of stood apart. Where did that come from? How did you guys kind of get this like ▁urban image to go with? Like Tech Nine Binding? And maybe where did the name Te nine even come from?

E

Ethan13:50

you know we were really into music growing up in Burlington, Vermont, Um, a lot of people wouldn't believe it, but there wass like a huge Jamaican dance hall, Reggae, the music scene, and uh,

M

Mark_sullivan14:02

Flextonone?

E

Ethan14:04

yeah, yeah, there's just I don't know why Burlington's liked that, but just a huge scene. And uh, so I kind of grew up listening to that type of music and they're always talking about techniying the gun. And since the bindings were all metal like that, the first ones were made out of metal. Um, I just mentioned that name and everyone's hyped on it, so it kind of stuck. So that's how we got the name. but I'd say the image really just came from

E

Ethan14:30

from music. as. well. You know, we're big into a lot of us, Like Tarquin was a d. ▁j. At the time, Ali was a t. ▁j. Um, so the riders were all super in the music, so we just tried to really bring what was going on in cities like the style that you would see too snowboarding. 'cause no one has really done that yet.

E

Ethan14:52

And uh, it really all just came from listening to music.

M

Mark_sullivan14:57

It seems like you know, like that image is something that is really stuck with snowboarding to this day and a lot of people still kind of have that like Tech Nine looking fi. I mean, how does it feel to like? look back on the sport and be like Wow, Nine really had a lasting influence here.

E

Ethan15:13

It's pretty sweet. Um, I, I've heard baggy stuff coming back too, so hopefully we'll start seeing seeing it even more, 'cause I think it always makes people the. S. not. I mean, you can go too baggy. Obviously it looks a little ridiculous and that did happen. you know, I think we saw certain writers go that way, but when tastefully done, I think it looks pretty good when you're snowboarding, So yeah, it's awesome to see. I still see people riding the old tech diy outerwe like all the time That actually up Brighton.

M

Mark_sullivan15:40

What? What team writer like embodied the tech style for you the most?

E

Ethan15:45

Jeeze, that's a tough call. Um, I think a lot of them took it too far eventually, but

M

Mark_sullivan15:52

Yeah, like whats too far? Like where's take it too far?

E

Ethan15:55

too far. Just when the the triple excel. I don't know Gooer and Bradshaw and them were definitely taking the bagginess a step too far, but now they rock it all tastefully, so I think it was just uh. I mean, I don't know what it was. The bright colors and the bagginess came in with logos everywhere. I think that's when it went too far for me,

M

Mark_sullivan16:19

Yeah, Okay, So what are like the accomplishments that you had during Tech Nine that you are like proud of, most proud of today. looking back on it.

E

Ethan16:26

man, just uh, I still see so many people with techline tattoos. I think that's pretty crazy to see a logo that Um. we created up just people so hyped they're goingnna tattoo it on themselves. Um,

E

Ethan16:40

just the excitement around the brand and what we were able to do with bringing up different team writers, and I think with f o d t, we made uh, I wa, to say almost twenty movies. So we werere super proud of that and uh, actually, I'm probably way off. Probably ten movies. I think it was only ten movies.

M

Mark_sullivan16:59

Ten, twenty, whatever.

E

Ethan17:00

Whatever. I only worked on like the first five, so I start to

M

Mark_sullivan17:05

Yeah,

E

Ethan17:05

lose lose, Uh, lose track of it. Cole would have to straighten me out on that, but uh yeah, with the movies, Um, bringing up riders, And you know, having the first baseless binding out there was pretty pretty cool. Just being on the forefront of a technology. it ended up not sticking. But it lasted for some years and was kind of on the forefront of like new school snowboarding, Um, and then when we got into boards and outer, where it made us kind of more of a competition or more competitive to other brands. So things got a little bit more real and it was a little bit harder with team writers 'cause we had to get 'em like head to toe and and uh, we would bring up new riders and have other brands kind of swoop 'em after we got a breako part with f o d t or something, So that was kinda hard,

E

Ethan17:52

but it was all lot,

M

Mark_sullivan17:52

it seems like a lot of writedrs like started with Tech Nine and then moved on to other larger brands. Like who were some of those team writers who are like, kind of still. to this day a little bit sore that they left Tech Nine and kind of left the fold. If you will,

E

Ethan18:06

you know, I was never too sore about it. Coal would kind of get sore about it, but I was always just like Man, make the money while you could make it, because most of them they wouldn't leave just for a little bit of money. It would be like tripleling their pay or something and getting a budget to be able to travel around the world. Um, like Aaron Bitner, when he went to D. C. I mean that was like a big change in how he was going to be able to to uh, tackle pro snowboarding to be able to travel everywhere with Macog, So for me I was always kind of just like man, Do it. Do what you gotta do. So I was uh, never really that sore about it.

E

Ethan18:43

We also had eighteen.

M

Mark_sullivan18:43

who are your favorite writers? Like the whole history of Tech Nine be cause you had everyone from Tarquin through Gruner. So like who are your favorite guys who embodied Tech Nine for you?

E

Ethan18:54

Jeeze, man I, They were all. I was able to spend so much time traveling around and going on trips with them because I have oy. T that a lot of them? Uh, hold a special place you know, like tarkinn. Obviously, in the early days Evan Whitlake on Um, he did that first one, black one white binding, which was Uh. no one had ever done two different color binding. So that always is something pretty cool and was cool to have Whitlake be part of the program and then, in the later years, definitely Gooner and Bradaw, where some of my favorites deadlong was always sick to cruise and shoot. Um. Just if Benny was Ra to, I mean, everybody was was sick to have on the program. We tried to kind of sponsor our friends. You know, so it was always uh. They just happened to be good at snowboarding too, so it all kind of just worked together.

M

Mark_sullivan19:42

So you say you sponsored your friends? Did any of them become enemies when the business got involved? Do like not get along with someone that you used to get along with based on them working for you Now Instead

E

Ethan19:54

Um.

M

Mark_sullivan19:54

of just being a friend,

E

Ethan19:56

I was always chilll. If Cole maybe had some issues like that, Um, when we did have to make some cuts, it always sucked,

E

Ethan20:04

but

E

Ethan20:06

now there's nobody on the team that I'm not friendly with. You know everybody

E

Ethan20:10

is, Uh, is still still chill. but you know, sometimes, yeah, we would have to make hard decisions and cut a team rider that we didn't want to cut, And that did suck. And Um, I always tried to maintain a a friendly disposition with Themem, and Cole would have been the guy hand. he. He was a team manager, you know, so he had to kind of deal with that a little bit more than I did. and uh, I think they understood that it. Nes wasn't necessarily his call. It was budgets and ever changing budgets and snowboarding. as as things change, you know, Um, I know, maybe for a short time there was some riders that maybe were bumms if they got cut,

E

Ethan20:50

but shit happens. I guess they got over it,

M

Mark_sullivan20:54

you know, it seems like the snowboard industry is pretty tough to deal with. I mean, you had this image and people have this like image of Tech Ninee from the outside. Look in. What is it actually like running a brand and maintaining that cool factor for all those years and trying to keep everyone happy?

E

Ethan21:10

dude. it was narly, Especially as our team got bigger. it was. Uh, there's a lot of mouths to feed. and as we'd put out a f o d T movie, and everyone would work hard and get a good part. You know, then you got like ten riders that you gotta try to look after and take care of, and they all worked hard the season before. But then there'd only be so much money to go around. I think people also thought we were a lot bigger than we were, because we were definitely seen kind of worldwide and around the mountain. And I think it was just 'cause the product was pretty pretty noticeable, so people thought we were larger than we were, But it was always a struggle to try to take care of everybody, and and do what we needed to do. And then when you're dealing with uh, binding moulds to make new binding moless, it's so expensive. It's uh, it'snrly and then when you throw in we minimums and trying to do board moulds and all the graphics and the artists he need. It's pretty much was just endless enough to spend money on, and not a lot of money to be made at the end of the day, and the the winter cycle is so hard, too, When you're only getting paid one time a year, and then shops don't even pay you sometimes, um, I mean, a lot of times on time, so that was a struggle trying to collect the money. They're They're usually paying the bigger brands first to make sure they can still carry Burton in the future, so the smaller brands would get paid last. So it was just a constant struggle. And uh,

E

Ethan22:34

I think a lot of people don't realize that, but maintaining the cool factor wasn't that hard 'cause we had so many minds to kind of help help us with that when with all the team writers and all that, so it was kinda that was kind of the easier part. I guess just all the creativity between all the different writers.

M

Mark_sullivan22:52

Okay, so you mentioned the creativity? Like? what? What are like? Some of the favorite products that you developed over the years. The things that you would like look back on today with pride

E

Ethan23:03

Um, you know who was awesome to work with on boards was Lucas Macgoon. All of his graphics were kinda just straight from the mind of Lucas, and he just had to kinda. s, kind of take notes on his ideas and then translate that to Dave, Dom and the artist, and when done right, they just came out insane, And those are some of my favorite board graphics. Still today. Like Lucas had, his first one was like a Gremlin's Gremlin's take off, which was pretty sick. And just every different one of his art pieces that he'd come come straight from his mind was just insane. Um. On the technical side, we just tried to make products that made sense. So just trying to always make bindings better and better. Um, we came up with the first tow strap that went over the front of the toe of the boot, and uh,

M

Mark_sullivan23:54

was that Marco's idea?

E

Ethan23:54

so that was always pretty. It was actually just in Hebble, and Mark O

M

Mark_sullivan23:58

Okay?

E

Ethan23:58

Po adopted it to binding, so they called it the Baltimore Toastrap, and uh, we knew here on the Something Rad. When all of a sudden Burton hit us with like a simultaneous invention and they showed up at the trade show like a handmade one. When we had one that was already molded. You know theyd caught wind of what we were doing, so uh, there was like a little bit of a a weird lawsuit there, but we kind of all just squashed it and move forward and that's why you see the strap on everybody's uh findings now,

M

Mark_sullivan24:28

I mean, you talk about lawsuits. I mean, what are the most challenging parts about running a business and

M

Mark_sullivan24:34

keeping keeping it rubberide down?

E

Ethan24:36

Um, you know we had good insurance, so

E

Ethan24:40

when the lawsuit does happen, they kind of it's all handled with insurance, but we never had any like injury suits or anything like that, which is dope. Um, but yeah, you have to make sure your products are, are are on point, or else that stuff can happen. you know, but I guess the the trick is to just get insurance right away if you're a company that's being uh, ridden like snowboards are ridden. You know,

M

Mark_sullivan25:04

Yeah, okay, so like how did like Tech Nine come undone? As far as like I know, you guys were an independent brand for a number of years and then you became part of this collective or the collective, I want to say, And you are part of Likeoms and Tech Nine and a few other brands. What was the thing? though, really, kind of like was the thread that you pulled on that kind of unwound. the whole thing

E

Ethan25:29

you know, the biggest issue we always had was cash flow. Um,

E

Ethan25:35

even when we got that first order our first year in business, you know all of a sudden. If you get like a five hundred thousand dollar order, you need like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to make a product, And uh,

E

Ethan25:48

we did not have that. Um. I actually found out later that Uh, my dad took credit cards out of my name, and that's how we funded the first

E

Ethan26:00

Tech Nine products And I found that out, actually, like a couple of years after the fact, when I was at his house and a very large credit card bill showed up and I was like I

M

Mark_sullivan26:09

with's. Your name on it

E

Ethan26:09

don't have an American Express. What's that?

M

Mark_sullivan26:12

with your name on it.

E

Ethan26:13

Yeah, with my name on it and I opened it up. I was at his house like. Oh, this is weird and just like a couple hundred thousand dollar bill. Just like Whoa. It got me more ownership of Tech Nine when I saw that he did that, But that's basically kind of a sneaky way. He started the funding of the company. Um gave me good credit at the time, I guess, 'cause he did end up paying it all off, which he said he always would, so I guess he was true to his word on that, but it was a little uh sketchy When I did see it as a young kid when you get a bill like that, but yeah, cash flow was always the tough part. So as we got bigger, you know all of a sudden you're a million dollar company at retail. you need five hundred thousand dollars to get your product made and you gotta wait like six months until you're gonna get paid back anything. and you gotta pay the factories or else they're not gonna ship. And so we didn't really have that. So we had to get investors, and that comes at a price. You know they're gonna want ownership. And if someone's injecting a couple of million dollars so you can actually operate and and do ads, and and really kind of step up the brand, they're gonna want a big chunk, you know, and probably gonna want ownership at a controlling interest. And so that was, kind of. uh.

E

Ethan27:30

I guess the step in the direction that kind of is a bummer. So anyone who's got a company going, try to hold out on uh, getting controlling interest and that's kind of the beginning of the end. I would say we lasted a twenty two years or something, but I would say after the first five years, you know we were already. We already had an investor. We weren't that stoked on. So then we had to find another one and then that came out of price. And then we had to find another one and that came out of price. And uh, eventually, I mean, it was always. it was still rad, Because when you get these new investors, you do get a cash injection and you're making more money. You're all of a sudden calling up Snowboarder and you can do an advertising campaign. and uh, it definitely had its perks and I think it did help us grow to be the biggest. Like the biggest we ever were was when we were part of that. Uh, it was called brand base. When it was no misss and tech Nine Together we were

M

Mark_sullivan28:26

Mhm.

E

Ethan28:26

almost. We made an offer to buy Grenade at one point, and that was going to join up. Um, and that's like when we were the largest we ever were as a brand. So there's something to be said about having that cash flow and what you can do with it. But then it's also there's just so many hands in the pot that it. Uh, and other people that you have a vision for a brand that you kind of started with the original team, but then other people can kind of veto that and make decisions. You're not that stoked on. And and then you' all of a sudden, not the same brand that you were when you started. you know,

M

Mark_sullivan28:58

Yeah, so I mean you talk about cash flow and I think every start up business has issues with just keeping the lights on and

E

Ethan29:05

Yeah,

M

Mark_sullivan29:05

keeping the the bills being paid. Like what's the tightest rub you ever had with a cash flow situation with Te nine? Just something weir like, I'm not sure if we're going to get out of this.

E

Ethan29:15

um, jeeze, I think we were at that point pretty much every year There was. there was no

M

Mark_sullivan29:20

Really?

E

Ethan29:20

time when we weren't like that. Because of the whole cycle of being a winter sports brand. You know where you have to give all this money to the factory or else they won't ship you, and then the brand. The shops still haven't paid you back, and you have to get on the phone and call every single one of themem. I mean, that's why there's so many less less shops right now than there was before. Because they've had they have it. just maybe more tougher than brands 'cause they get stuck with all that inventory. So this, the whole cycle is just so hard that there, probably there

E

Ethan29:51

every season we were at a point where I mean, I shouldn't say every season there were some seasons where it was like. I don't think we're going to make it through this. like if we don't get another cash injection or an investor, we're definitely going to shut down. There's probably like three seasons like that and every season we would somehow get through it and something would happen. and um, maybe the factory would give us better terms or something. And I guess where there's a will, there's a way you know, so we would always figure it out, But there was definitely three seasons where it was almost like all right time to. I guess I'm going to start shooting photos more aggressively or or something like that. So it was uh, but it's always pretty tough just being uh a brand. That depends on one season.

E

Ethan30:36

We

M

Mark_sullivan30:36

Yeah, I mean you,

E

Ethan30:36

even tried, tried at one

M

Mark_sullivan30:37

you.

E

Ethan30:37

point to maybe develop clothing to be a more seasonal brand, But it's so hard when you're rooted in snowboarding. You know,

M

Mark_sullivan30:46

Yeah, so I mean, you mentioned that you know that you had like three seasons where you could have pulled the plug and then you were like Okay, Maybe I'll shoot more photos. It seems like you were shooting photos a lot at this time that you were working on Tech Nine. How did that ramp up as you were trying to run a business at the same time,

E

Ethan31:04

Um, it was tough. Luckily, with my dad working with us, you know, he would deal with a lot of the stuff on the uh, warehouse level and the back end, which he kind of understood. The stuff we were doing out in the field with boots on the ground is what propelled the brand to where it was. You know, so he really understood that, but as we got more investors that got harder to kind of explain like, Oh, you're out shooting photos and you're making a career that, But then you're also like the brand manager at Tech nine, so I'd have to really be really transparent with what I was doing and work really hard to uh, kind of do my tech di stuff as well as shoe photos, and, and kind of uh, make it all work towards the end and all that, but and towards the end after twenty years of doing tech. Nine photography was kind of a lot fun. just 'cause twenty years of trying to develop a board line gets pretty. Uh. It gets pretty monotonous, you know, or, or rewriting a catalogue for the twentieth time, and gets pretty crazy, so I was kind of maybe towards the end my heart was just more in photography anyways, and it was going really good with snowboarder Mag, and I was able to team up with a lot of different crews, kind of outside of techline, So uh, and you know, go on helly trips with Volkum or who knows what else, other opportunities would pop up, and with Tech Di, I wasn't able to do that stuff, so towards the end I. Think, uh, the passion was definitely more towards photography.

M

Mark_sullivan32:39

So you were getting better opportunities from other brands outside of Tech Nine. Despite working at Tech Nine,

E

Ethan32:45

Yeah, at. at some points even with Tech nine, I was like the staff photographer for Sims. Well, I was the brand manager for Tech Nine and it kind of just worked out 'cause Mark Frank rode for Sims at the time, and a couple of other ridrs like Nko Dros Road for Sims and some of our B riders. So uh, it was mellow. I was able to maintain those positions. Well, I worked for Tech Nine, Um, as well as we. A. What's that?

M

Mark_sullivan33:10

was there ever a point? Was there ever a point where you started making more money on the photography than off of Tech Nine,

E

Ethan33:17

for sure? there definitely was and that's why another reason I was like Man, this is. uh. Maybe I should be focusing more on this and working more with brands. and uh 'cause Tech Nine couldn't couldn't really pay as well. especially in those seasons where we' almost going to go to business. you know, so yeah, there was

M

Mark_sullivan33:36

Mhm?

E

Ethan33:36

definitely a point where photography was was kinda what was really paying the bills.

M

Mark_sullivan33:42

So how much money could you potentially make running a small brand and snowboarding? I mean, Is it lucrative like you' like counting to retire one day off of this, or is it just something where you like doing what I love helping my friends out?

E

Ethan33:54

It's funny when I was young and naive, I was like. I'm definitely going to be able to retire one day from this and then as you kind of really get into the business and hownarly it can be. Um, as you get older, and I guess open your eyes a little more. I started to realize there's no way I'm goingnna be retired from this, and uh, just as there was more owners that own part of the brand. And and also like how often our snowboard brands really sold, except when they're like in dire straits, and they're kind of bought for pennies on the dollar. You know. it's only

M

Mark_sullivan34:29

Yeah,

E

Ethan34:30

happened like a couple of times.

M

Mark_sullivan34:32

what? what was your ownership equity in Tech Nine? Like percentage wise when you started versus when you finally left at the end

E

Ethan34:39

Um do. When I started. I only had like three percent 'cause young and naive. My dad kinda uh, gave us a very small percentage 'cause he said he was putting all the money in, but then when I realized it was my money, I jumped up to like twenty percent and then uh, but there was like five of us who started it, So it wass all split up and then uh, it would have to get diluted every time a new investor came in, And so I think by the end I was at like, I don't know, like ten percent or something, but I started to realize it was better to make. More money than it was. even, hold on the percentage because like I said, how often do these brands really sell unless it's pennies' on the dollar? You know, so I kinda just went for getting a bigger salary as opposed to percentile?

M

Mark_sullivan35:27

right, I can't really think of too many brands that have had like a big pay day at the end, so to speak, one that have been around even for fifteen or twenty years, really is not a lot that have some kind of successful outcome for the people who. Started the brands.

E

Ethan35:42

Yeah, it's pretty harsh and it's uh. it just comes. There's all of a sudden, sharks in the water when they really need money and they just make an offer. That is the only way to keep the brand around, you know,

E

Ethan35:54

and uh.

M

Mark_sullivan35:54

Y, So did did that like turn you off from like running the brand. The fact that you are owning last and getting pen nes on the dollar from what you thought it was worth?

E

Ethan36:02

Well, the more responsibility I took the more I was able to get paid though, so it's kind of like a.

E

Ethan36:09

It was kind of better just to take. I. I, in my mind, knowing that a lot of brands don't sell, and seeing how a lot of these deals go down, Um,

E

Ethan36:19

the more responsibility I would rather instead of shares, just take a bigger salary, you know,

M

Mark_sullivan36:24

Y. okay,

E

Ethan36:24

and uh, I don't know. if that's always the case. I just feel from what I saw in snowboarding it kinda seemed that that's that's how it kind of goes. You know, so even if we did sell one day, it would just probably be

E

Ethan36:39

not for what. The you're never. really. You don't really sell when you're in a strongvantage point. You know you, you end up selling shares when you're when you need the money. It seems like otherwise you're trying

M

Mark_sullivan36:50

Mhm,

E

Ethan36:50

to hang onto the brand. And there are brands that have

M

Mark_sullivan36:52

but

E

Ethan36:52

done it right out there Like six, eight, Six is awesome. They, Mike West built that company from the ground up with his own money, and never had to bring in an investor. And that's how you need to do it. You know you need to just figure out a way to do it that way and not have to. uh, always bring in an investor every time there's a cash crunch.

M

Mark_sullivan37:10

yeah, it seems like that's one of the few brands though that has really pulled that off

E

Ethan37:14

Yeah, I mean,

M

Mark_sullivan37:15

as far as like building a brand under the same ownership that has started under. I can't really think of too many

E

Ethan37:19

yeah, ▁qu's to show how smart Mike is. you know, the the way he's kind of handled his business, but you know I wouldn't give up

M

Mark_sullivan37:25

y, yp.

E

Ethan37:25

those tech nine years for anything. I mean it was so much fun and uh, working on products something you love and learning that much about business and tons of rad trips, and go into different trade shows and manufact learning how to manufacture products in Europe and China. I mean it was awesome and it was super fun and uh, probably that was my college education. you know

M

Mark_sullivan37:49

Okay, So like what was like your favorite trip out of all the tech Nine Days? One was like Tech Nine, the full flag flying. Uh, somewhere around the world.

E

Ethan37:59

Coal and I, We try to go on one like crazy trip every year with the team, and Uh, definitely one that stands out is like going to Moscow for the first time. I think we were like the first crew to go there and kinda shoot in Moscow, and it was just crazy how different it is. You know that from our lives here it was. It was. uh, just kind of eye opening. but we got to do that kind of like every year we'd We'd had the advantage to reach out to it. We had distributors all over the world, you know, so we could just call the distributor and be like Hey, do you guys got snow? And if if they were, if they had snow, they would like, kind of help us out once we got there and treat us really well. You know, get hotels for us. Drive us around. Make it really easy. so we were able to go to all sorts of wild places like we went to Spain and we went to. I mean, we went pretty much everywhere there was snow and we had a distributor. We would go there with the team 'cause after making ten movies or whatever, you know, that was ten rad trips for the movie. But uh, I would say Yeah, going to Moscow the first time kinda really stood out. Um,

E

Ethan39:02

it was just such a such culture shock. That place. we almost died a couple of times. it was. It was just kinda like nothing, like nothing you'd see shooting around the U. S. You know

M

Mark_sullivan39:13

When you say you almost died, you' mean like you had runnings with the authorities like you almost died.

E

Ethan39:18

well me, we had one ends on the florid authorities Every day. It was to the point where we just alternated who was going to pay 'em the hundred dollar bill to let us off. But uh, we almost had A. The traffic there was so crazy. We were on the highway. Coal was driving. I was in the backs. I don't know exactly what happened, but at one point we were on like two wheels, and um, pretty much about to die to the point where we, when we pulled over like muzzy, ran out of the ban and ran out in the field and like started praying or something. and uh, just 'cause it's so crazy over there, people drive like I, there's no laws, you know. I guess that's the only way to explain it. And uh, yeah, so we literally almost died in a car accident. And uh, but yeah, every day. well, like when we get busted, it would be like military with machine guns there to bust to you. But then they'd end up being pretty cool 'cause I'd never seen anybody snowboarding before, so they were actually kind of rad. Luckily, we had a

M

Mark_sullivan40:12

Okay, Okay,

E

Ethan40:12

someone to translate, so they would uh tell him what we were doing. Otherwise it might have been different, but yeah, every day we would have to give the A the cops a hundred dollar bill, pretty much

M

Mark_sullivan40:22

just for your rail spots, Basically

E

Ethan40:24

just or who it would could be either a driving thing, a rail thing, or just walking through town and they'd give you shit. It's like they basically are like. we can take your passports and bring in to jail, or you can give us a hundred dollars. It's kind of like

M

Mark_sullivan40:37

right.

E

Ethan40:37

Mexico, you know, And so you just have a hundred dollar bill ready. You alternate who pays them and move on with your day. you know.

M

Mark_sullivan40:45

So did the travel get crazier when you went into becoming like a senior photographer full time, or did it get kind of more mellow, more taken care of. As far as like you now, had you know editors or whatever to report on or report to back at the magazine headquarters?

E

Ethan41:01

Um, well, it was pretty rat, so I would do a trip with Tech nine like that and then I would also get to do, or I would also kind of bundle that up as a feature for the magazine, So it was

M

Mark_sullivan41:11

Mhm.

E

Ethan41:11

almost on like a trip to Moscow or anywhere we went. It would also always be a feature for snowboarder since it was such a cool location, so it all kind of went hand in hand, and uh,

E

Ethan41:24

it was able to give me. I was able to maybe use the magazine's budget for my trip. So it that allowed us to bring another rider for Tech Nine, you know, So it kinda just

M

Mark_sullivan41:34

So you're double dipping? Basically

E

Ethan41:34

worked together. Yeah, double dipping.

M

Mark_sullivan41:38

yeah,

E

Ethan41:38

I, I wasn't sending invoices to both brands, but I was kind of just making it work together. You know,

M

Mark_sullivan41:44

right.

M

Mark_sullivan41:45

were Were you ever able to like get three or four brands involved with paying for your trips?

E

Ethan41:50

for sure, back in the heyday man, it was nice you could. there was a lot going on. You could. there was a lot more budget than there is today. I mean today there's hardly any budget and you can't ly anywhere 'cause a coved anywhere fun. You know you can't go overseas. so uh, it's a whole different landscape Now. back then it was so easy to get a trip together. As long as it was a cool location, it would be guaranteed to go in the s in in the magazine and then you could send it to another magazine overseas and they would package up the feature, so you'd get the feature and snowboarder in Japan, also in Europe, and so you're able to get paid like three different ways from for from magazines at the time on one trip, not to mention selling photos to brands as well, so uh, yeah, it was a whole different ball gameam back then with photography, I'm hoping

M

Mark_sullivan42:40

Right? And so

E

Ethan42:40

they tas come back.

M

Mark_sullivan42:42

nowadays it' changed. Can you compare you know what it was like in the early two thousands, when the budgets were big to where where it's at today, and like how you can maintain a career as a professional photographer today? Because I know there's not as many print publications today.

E

Ethan42:59

Yeah, it's crazy how different it is. Um, back in the day,

E

Ethan43:04

The this is the the biggest difference. I think back in the day I would basically just go out and shoot every day and try to shoot as many different people as I could And there was probably about a ninety percent chance that that photo I shot with that writer would end up printed somewhere and today and by printed somewhere else. I' mean that I would get paid for that photo whether it's an ad or it's in a magazine today. It's almost it's. It's not worth your time to go out and shoot unless you know that photo's already sold for something like. You know. there's going to be an interview on that writer, or you know a particular brand needs a photo of that writer. And so that's the biggest difference. And that's that sucks. You know, because it basically deters you from going out and shooting, because it's like what am I even going to do with this photo now at this point, and so a lot of photoraph ers are only shooting if they're hired for a shoot, so they won't go on a trip and definitely won't go on a trip and spend money their own money, 'cause they're never going to recoup it, You know, back in the day you would definitely recoup it without a even doubt in your mind, and now you hear most of the photographers when they. Say they had a good year. It means they were hired a bunch in advanced to go shoot and back before it was never like that. You would just go out and shoot as much as you possibly could. so it's really changed and uh, it makes it a lot harder.

M

Mark_sullivan44:32

Do you still have like a lot of contracts with different brands to shoot the writeders?

E

Ethan44:37

Um.

E

Ethan44:38

Well in the past year with the bomb hole, it's made it a bit different for me. Um,

M

Mark_sullivan44:44

Mhm,

E

Ethan44:44

but I would say, up until I mean, I'm not sure what's gonna happen this season, but up until like last year. Yeah,

E

Ethan44:51

um, but you really at? for

M

Mark_sullivan44:52

Yeah, I mean, what. what would your photography look like last year with the pandemic and everything?

E

Ethan44:57

it was T. It was definitely my roughest season ever. Um, and it was kind of compounded by the fact that Utah didn't get any street snow, so that was

M

Mark_sullivan45:08

Yeah,

E

Ethan45:08

kinda not happening. I think we had two days with snow in the streets, and then

M

Mark_sullivan45:13

hm,

E

Ethan45:14

when we got out all our snow in the mountains it was when it was like that black rows of uh, avalanche danger. Where every different

M

Mark_sullivan45:21

yeah,

E

Ethan45:21

direction was danger and the ski patrol was saying, Don't even like. inbund Its risky. You know, so

M

Mark_sullivan45:29

Mhm.

E

Ethan45:29

uh shooting last yea