The Relic

This week’s tribute episode goes out to Tom Sizemore, who sadly died recently of a brain aneurysm. We review his first leading man role in 1997’s The Relic, where he stars alongside Penelope Ann Miller. He’s a tough-as-nails police detective. She’s an evolutionary biologist. But what matters THE MOST is that the big museum gala fundraiser go on as scheduled, AT ALL COSTS. Even in the face of a giant, whacked out Stan Winston-created monstrosity lurking in sewers below.

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Automatic Transcript

The Relic (1997)

Episode 337, 2 Guys & A Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: We wrapped up our month of remakes and that was a lot of fun, wasn’t it? Yeah, I enjoyed it. I kind of wanted to jump in and do another month of remakes afterwards, , but instead what we did was we took a week off . Yeah.

And so we’re coming to you this week, uh, with a very current tribute episode, an actor who, uh, probably all of you have seen in, in big movies, Tom Sizemore. Died of a brain aneurysm. Tom Sizemore has been in and outta movies since the late eighties. Um, he studied theater, but he really got his big break, um, inboard on the 4th of July, which I believe is an stone film.

Uhhuh then did this movie, which we’re gonna do today, called The Relic, uh, and then the following year really hit it big with Saving Private Ryan. He was well, uh, regarded in that. He, he did a few movies before that. He did like Passenger 57, I think with Wesley Snipes and Point Break and, you know, some other big budget movies.

But, um, the Relic was his first big major screen roll as far as being like a leading man. He played the lieutenant detective in this alongside Penelope and Miller . Yeah, from Saving Private Ryan on really popped in and outta movies quite a bit. Always usually playing the cop or the Tough Guy or Uhhuh, , these kinds of roles.

And, you know, we might as well get it outta the way from the beginning. From what we can tell, Tom Sizemore was not always an outstanding citizen. . Um, he struggled with drug abuse since he was 15, both methamphetamine and, uh, heroin I believe. And it seems like that never really left him. And uh, he was constantly in and out of rehab.

Um, he had some domestic violence charges against him, including with Heidi Fleiss. , yeah. Who he had a relationship with for a little while. The famous, you’re Engaged Hollywood Madam. And the reason I proposed the Relic was because I’ve actually been wanting to do this one on this podcast for years, . And it’s just always in the back of my mind when I think about Monster movies because I saw this, uh, when I was in college, um, cuz this was what, 1997 film?

Mm-hmm. . This was my freshman year in college. I remembered being quite surprised by how gory it was for a mainstream movie. There is some real gore and violence in this movie for something that, you know, played in the cinemas. You know, and was supposed to be a, a big, a big blockbuster hit with these major stars in it.

So, um, I hadn’t seen it since and I just wanted to go back and revisit it and see like, was this movie, you know, as good as, as I, I, as, as impactful as I remembered it being. It was definitely remembered it being shocking. Definitely remembered it being very satisfying as a creature feature. And so, uh, I haven’t seen it since 1997 and, uh, here we are.

I watched it today. How about you, Craig? Had you seen this before? I’m

Craig: sure I had like, uh, a hundred percent positive. I had seen it before. I didn’t remember. anything about it aside from the fact that Tom Sizemore was in it and, uh, Penelope Miller. I remember that. That’s it. So I went back to look it up and, uh, I saw that Stan Winston does the creature effects and I’m, I’m in like, that’s all you, that’s how you gotta tell me.

Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m here for it. I didn’t really read much more about it before I started watching it, and then I watched it. I don’t know, man. I don’t know if, I just thought it was all right. . Yeah,

Todd: I’m, I’m a hundred percent with you on that. This is almost like every other movie from the nineties . It kind of has that feel like these, all these big budget action movies were just like, Almost paint by numbers in some way, you know, in some way, shape or form.

They were all mimicking the rock or, or some Michael Bay movie. This movie being more of a horror creature movie, it just checks all the boxes. Right. Kind of in an annoying way. Researcher co, you know, is in the museum. It’s this sort of dorky setting when and, and there’s a big gala opening the ne the next night.

So when they find problems in the museum, they’ve gotta, there’s, there’s all this pressure between the cops and the people in the museum. We’ve gotta get our gala opening. Yeah. But we’re not sure. It’s not safe. Somebody just died there and, well, you guys investigate the museum while we have our big gala and we all know what’s gonna happen.

Well, you know, well this, this

Craig: movie is just basically arachnophobia in a museum. Yeah, with just one great big spider . Beyond that, it’s the exact same movie, ,

Todd: right? You’re kinda right about that. Yeah. It

Craig: really is. Exotic Monster gets transported in a crate to Uhhuh, , uh, a populated area. Chaos ensues the end.

They’re the same movie .

Todd: It really is, except in this case, instead of a dude who’s freaked out by spiders, you have a guy who is extremely superstitious. Really superstitious

Craig: was just the dumbest flop point.

Todd: It’s so stupid and it we are repeatedly beat over the head bite in any way shape. Oh my God.

Craig: Perform the name, the name of the gala. Like Is superstition. Yeah, like .

Todd: What are the chances?

Craig: I was trying to be nice by saying it was just, all right, it’s bad. This is a

Todd: bad movie. I mean, it’s not badly made.

Craig: It’s not badly made. And like I really enjoy the setting of the Chicago Museum of Nashville. So

Todd: that’s cool.

Yeah, it was filmed there too. Uhhuh. it seems like, like, but if you can see it, because the whole movie is so freaking dark. It is so dark that about a third of the way through, I thought, these people are raising money for the museum. They need to raise money for more lighting. Like these people work in offices that are lit by little lamps and nothing else in the middle of the day.

You know, they’re walking around in dark basements without ever flipping on the lights. Even the freaking gala is so dark that I’m like, you guys need to like turn some lights on before all of your patrons trip and fall down the stairs on their way in. It is insanely dark this movie, and I know they’re trying to, you know, they’re trying to create this look and this feel, but the monster doesn’t even come in.

Until like three quarters of the way through. Yeah. Lee, it’s, it’s almost two hour movie. Monster doesn’t come in until the next 20, until the last 25 minutes. See that?

Craig: Isn’t that It’s also Alien . Yeah.

Right.

Todd: It is because the

Craig: monster. Because the monster just lingers in the shadows for the first two thirds of the movie and then you finally get to see it a little bit,

Todd: kind of grabs people left and right.

Kind of does a few little things, but you don’t see the whole thing and then finally you do. Now when you do it’s, even when you do , it’s hard to get a grasp on what this thing is because even in the big shots, you know where like the big reveal, right? Where you see the monster in the middle of the gala, in that giant open atrium space, I’m still like had to pause and look at it like, what am I seeing here?

None of it was quite clear to me and that I found Irksome. It actually. Pissed me off. . Well,

Craig: it’s supposed to be like the, the plot point is like, it’s an amalgamation of things. Um, so, you know, I read about the design, like I think it’s face is supposed to be like a spider. It’s got kinda like those pinchers like spiders have Mm.

And then big fangs and things. Yeah. And its body is supposed to be a mix of like a lion, a horse and an alligator. .

Todd: Right. it’s got her and

Craig: scales. Yeah. So it kind of has like, it kind of has a lion’s body with an alligator tail, ts fur all over and it gallops like a horse. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s interesting.

It’s unique. I’ve. And, and the concept is unique and, um, they did a lot of the creature effects practically, but you’re right, it’s so dark. And I feel like they had to do so much in like extreme closeup that it was hard to even tell what you were looking at. Oh, yeah. And, and then I, I like, I think some of the closeups on the monster’s face were probably practical and that’s, that’s great.

Todd: Some of those were great. Mm-hmm. , there were some lingering close up on the face scenes with the typical dripping fangs and things like that that were Oh, there was the

Craig: Todd Aliens. Yes. This movie steals from every other movie. There was that moment that was Alien three where, yes, the Xenomorph puts its face right up next to hers.

I don’t know which came first, but it was the exact scene.

Todd: It was . It was, it was the exact scene. Oh God. .

Craig: But that’s the thing, like it’s not, the monster is fine when you see it in full and it’s running around or jumping around. It’s c g I, the CGI I is adequate. Like, it doesn’t look terrible.

It

Todd: doesn’t look amazing.

This guys’s totally fine because you can’t even see, because everything’s dark. It’s really dark. That’s what makes a CGI great. This 1997 CGI was, was not usually that fantastic, but it, it works perfectly in this movie because everything’s freaking dark. I, I’m sorry, I could not get over how dark this was when just two people are talking in a room, like one guy’s face will be almost entirely in shadow.

The other woman’s face will be almost entirely in shadow. I don’t know how they’re not tripping over each other. And it’s the middle of the day in their office when they’re supposed to be working and there are tons of people walking around. I mean, well, and

Craig: it’s, it’s the Chicago Natural History Museum.

Even the lady, what is her name? Dr. Green,

you

Todd: mean Margot? Margot?

Craig: Yeah. I Here, this is so funny, like in my notes, I was calling her Margo, Margot Margot, and then I realized that I was calling all the men by their last names. Like why is that, Craig? Why are you calling the only woman by her first name? . She’s

Todd: a doctor.

so, so Dr. Green, you are a misogynist today. . So

Craig: Dr. Green played by Penelope and Miller. I just

Todd: wanna call Margo cause that’s how I wrote in the notes. Please do. That’s, you can call her whatever you want. I don’t care. I mean, because in my notes I’ve also got Tom Se More’s character down as Tommy .

Craig: I think people will know who we’re talking about.

She like alludes to, they see she and Tom Sizemore, whatever his name is. De Augusta and I had to type that out every time that really pissed

Todd: me off. That’s why I called him Tommy . That’s why he is Tommy in my notes, . I can’t write that crap. .

Craig: So, so Margot and Tommy are in the lab, and first of all, it looks like the lower decks of like a, a ship like yes or something, A sub.

It’s like Freddy’s basement. . What? That’s exactly right. . Do you see a penny on the the ground? Only to establish that he’s superstitious, which is stupid and makes no

Todd: difference. This is the fifth or sixth time they’ve established it. The most laughable thing is when they find the ship pulling into the harbor.

So there’s a ghost ship that pulls into the harbor. Okay. But some, something badly has happened. And I guess, we’ll, we’ll get to this point in a minute, but, but anyway, like there’s a cat scare.

Craig: What cat? No, he gave me a heart attack. Was it a black cat? No. .

Todd: No. And you see him like rubbing something in his finger, like he’s rubbing a trinket at the same time.

So instantly, you know, the like within five seconds of being this character. Oh, he’s superstitious because he asked about a black cat and he rubs this. And then it’s like every little superstition you could chalk up like. He avoids walking under ladders and he tells people not to step over dead bodies.

And every time, every time they’re like, what? He goes, cuz it’s bad luck. Don’t you know that? You idiot God. Uh, and by the way, yeah, this is based on a book and apparently in the book the detective is the opposite. He is disdainful of supers. That would

Craig: make so much more sense.

As I was watching this, I just kept thinking, I bet the book was better. Like .

Todd: It seems

Craig: like it, I don’t know, because it’s not a bad story. It’s a simple monster movie story, but there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s fine. Mm-hmm. , it’s just, oh God, it’s so, oh, what I, I never did finish that story. So they find the penny and he’s like, Is it heads up.

And she’s like, no, it’s tails up. He’s like, leave it there. And she’s like, why? He’s like, because it’s bad luck

And then she’s like, she picks it up. She’s like, sorry, every penny counts here. Like what? Like what are you, you’re funding your lab from the loose change on the floor. . That doesn’t even make any sense. .

Todd: There’s a lot of silly, cute cultiness that that often came up in these movies from the nineties too.

And, and now keep in mind this movie was written by like four people. So the minute you see that on the screen, you kind of, you temper your expectations. But I also loved the pair of cops who were constantly throughout the movie talking about coffee .

Craig: I didn’t even know who they were. Was one of those, the guy with the ruffles on his.

Todd: Think what you talking about? I think, yeah. And the other guy was the black cop who gets it later.

Craig: Oh God. I didn’t even know who they were. Like they just showed up all of a sudden and were in their own movie. Yes. Like they were just this, they were a buddy cop movie that happened to be happening at this gala.

And we just got to see them like joking around. You’re so right talking

Todd: about coffee.

Craig: Coffee’s terrible. It’s bitter. Very bitter looking, very dapper tonight. Think so. Cause I don’t see too many other guys wearing these ruffles. Ah, you look

Todd: cool.

Craig: like giving each other this shit. You know, like, oh man, I didn’t know who they were.

Yeah, .

Todd: I don’t know their names. It doesn’t matter. I

Craig: recognized one of ’em, the bigger balder one has played. Oh, I think he was Whitney Houston’s bodyguard in the bodyguard. I just came up with that,

Todd: but I’m pretty sure he was Kevin Costner. . No, ,

Craig: no. One of, one of her original bodyguards that stays on. Oh, okay.

That stays on when Kevin Costner comes on. No, wasn’t Kevin Costner? That would’ve been really good though. That would’ve been even better if it was Kevin Costner. Oh, man.

Todd: The people who were considered for this movie, like Al Pacino, Robert Taro. Oh, I know. Can you imagine?

Craig: Yeah. They really wanted Harrison Ford for, uh, seism

Todd: Moore’s role.

This is definitely more a seism more type movie really. I’m afraid. I don’t know. I can’t

Craig: get a take on his character. Like, who is he? He’s just like this rough cop. But on the one hand, don’t they establish that like he’s their very best detective? Yeah. But for some reason nobody likes him. Like what? Yeah, like he’s like, he’s the best.

But his job is in jeopardy. Like I don’t understand.

Todd: It’s always the way, right? He’s the tough, gritty, no nonsense, super skeptical guy who you know is never quite convinced that they found the answers and is gruff and orders people around. So nobody likes him, but they tolerate him cuz he gets the job done.

Except he’s not so skepticals to be wildly superstitious to the point where this like seems to freak him out like a phobia. It’s pretty stupid. . Well, especially when you consider they completely flipped it for the movie. Like what were they thinking? Were they thinking this movie cute or something? or this would make him more vulnerable?

I don’t know. Tom

Craig: Sizemore was so excited about this role because as soon as he got started, he was working with like top tier directors and, and you know, so he had had some good experience or whatever, but this was his first lead and he was so excited about it and he was excited, you know, that he got to play a character who really drove the plot forward,

And I feel like I can tell in his performance that he was taking it really seriously. Right. But it almost comes across as melodramatic, both him and Penelope and Miller, who I like. Yeah, I really do like Penelope and Miller, but they are acting like the rent is due and they have to give every last ounce

Todd: of their soul.

Penelope Anne Miller is in full on like, uh, what is she

Craig: doing? It is crazy Pants. I straight up laughed out loud. Yeah, there is one, there is one part where , she is very much aware that a crime has been committed. She is on a crime scene and , semore, semore and the other cops are in the bathroom where this guy, this janitor has gotten his head chopped off and his brain sucked out.

And like the head and the brain and the body are all in different places. There’s blood everywhere and Sizemore and his guy are like talking about it and Penelope Pi Miller rounds the corner talking like she’s gonna ask a question, sees the body and has. A full out panic attack, like scream streaks at the top of her lungs, like yeah, is paralyzed in fear and continues screaming for a f like 15 seconds.

It was embarrassing. God, get her outta here. And I laughed out loud. It was, and, and it happened two or three more times.

Todd: Like it happens when she’s being pursued by the monster. And no, get me wrong, like you’re gonna shar and be upset when you’re being pursued by a monster. But I just couldn’t get the image of my mind of her.

In like the bus stop in adventures in bath suit. , right? . It was like that same over acted wide-eyed, like oh my God kinda thing. Yes, yes,

Craig: yes. Eyes as wide as they could be. And honest in that moment, like, she’s getting chased by this rhinos size monster. Uh, so I, I, I honestly had the thought go through my mind, like, Craig, if you were being chased by a rhinos size monster, your face would probably look stupid.

Todd: Don’t be critical .

Craig: Dr. Green is doing the best you can. Oh my God. Okay. So like I, what I’m getting at is, it’s a bare bones story again. It’s a, uh, monster movie, so that’s fine. But there are a hundred characters. You don’t learn anything about any of them. They each have one personality trait and it’s too long.

it’s two hours. It’s too long,

Todd: long, long. Oh God. I couldn’t believe like, no, it’s like an hour and 43 minutes. Right. I have an hour for 49 minutes, but it felt like two and a half. I could not believe how long it was. It’s so

Craig: And how long it, there is, there is so much buildup. Like the, it starts out interesting and they, they get through the very first part really quickly.

There’s this scientist, he’s like in the Amazon, he’s like studying native rituals. They make him some hallucinogenic tea and he drinks it and he gets, you know, really scared by this native guy and like a beast costume. And then the next time we see him, he is frantic trying to get crates that he is loaded onto a ship to go.

To Chicago. Mm-hmm. , he’s trying to get the crates off and they’re like, sorry, we can’t get the crates off. It’s too late. And he’s like, oh, is that what he was trying to do? Yeah, he was trying to get them off. Oh. But they’re like, sorry, no deal. And he’s like, okay, darn. And he went and he hid and he somehow secretly boarded the boat.

And when he got on the boat, he started looking and looking and looking, but he couldn’t find what he was looking for. And so then the camera shows us that some of the crates had been left on the dock. So the crates that he was looking for were actually left back that he had gotten on the boat.

Todd: Yeah. Uh, you know, this movie is simple in story, but very convoluted on the

Craig: details I had to read about this.

I don’t know. I’m still so confused. I mean, I, I, I think I know what happened, the museum in, but, but here real

Todd: quick. If you know what happened, just help me, help me out with this. Did he want, what was in the crates for himself? Did he want the Chicago crates onboard the ship? Did he want the Chicago crates off the ship?

And did he want those crates to go to Chicago or to never make it to Chicago? I couldn’t figure any of that. He wanted them

Craig: not to go to Chicago, and he needed what was in the crates because I think that the museum ends up getting everything. Yes. Um, yeah, but the relic, the relic is in one shipment and the box, a different box is in the other one, and this box is full of leaves.

And they’re like, well, what’s. Packed in it. Like they assume that the leaves are just like the packing material, which would make sense. Um, they’re like, I don’t know, maybe it never got packed or whatever. Um, but then Dr. Green notices, there’s like caviar on, on the, uh, on

Todd: the Leafs Caviar. , like just tasted , just tasted, you know what it is?

It’s obvious to all of us. Come on, .

Craig: And she’s like, oh, what’s this? And her wheelchair, doctor, friend, the, some, the old guy, uh, Albert Frock played by James Whitmore, who’s an old guy that I’ve seen a million places. I didn’t even bother to look. I’m like, oh yeah, that old guy. I’ve seen him everywhere.

Todd: that old guy.

I mean, he’s what Brooks The, the dude on the Shawshank Redemption. He can’t hack it outside of prison cuz he’s been there so long. I love that man. He’s, he’s, he’s great. He’s

Craig: so good in that movie. Breaks your Heart. Mm-hmm. , but she’s like, look, there’s. Why she says, are these eggs or something? And he’s like, I don’t know, maybe fungus.

Look at

Todd: it later. Burn it all he says, burn it all. Yeah, burn it all. Did she like, looks at him. Oh, right. And he’s like, well, you know, whatever. And she puts like a handful of the leaves with the fungus in a cooler so that she can examine it later with her very extremely fancy genetic sequencing machine or whatever that she, she alone apparently has developed, but needs more research funding in order to further develop.

Craig: And runs on like a Commodore 64 , right?

Todd: With, with perfect, like Abso, it looks like a nineties website. What? This, uh,

Craig: It looks butter. It looks like What? Yeah. What popped up when you put in like the AOL disc? Like .

Todd: I was expecting like animated gifts of Adams to be spinning or something when she handle analyzed one of these things.

Oh my

Craig: God. It’s like, but it bothered me cuz she, she has this leaf and it’s clearly got this crap all over it. And , this can’t have been intentional, but like, she touched the leaf with her hand and then immediately scratched herself. I’m like, you’re a, you’re a doctor ma’am, like

Todd: we’re start

Craig: calling you Margo.

And, and she, she like her job is to like identify. Unidentified species or, or something. And you know, they’re dealing with, they’re dealing with fungus and viruses and there is no protocol in this, in this lab at all . And at one point a bug, like a little tiny bug, gets in her cooler of. Leaves and the next time she opens her refrigerator, the cooler falls out and it jumps out and it’s like the size of a snoozer.

Todd: Right. And then she smashes it and then is like, well this is fascinating. Let me investigate it. Instead of like, holy shit. There’s a giant bug. Mm-hmm. that probably nobody has ever seen before. Can you come in here and have a look at this? What do you suppose this is Like, what are we just killing time here?

Craig: I don’t know. It was really, it was boring. So they, she, you know, runs it through her salad spinner and it turns out it’s got like reptilian blood dna. It’s a blend, it’s a mutt of uh, a bunch of different things. Yeah, a few different. And so they figure out, it all is connected to this relic that was supposed to be, you know, this shrine to this God, like catho or something.

And it’s like this destroyer, god, like destroyer of civilizations or something. And it was all parts of all different beasts. And there’s this one scientist, I feel so bad for this actress. There is one scientist who we check in on. Periodically, like every 10 minutes throughout the movie, just dusting away at this statue.

And that’s all she ever does . And like it takes forever. It takes forever.

Todd: And she’s very intense at it. Right. And

Craig: she’s doing it like with a, like a, like a mascara brush, like . It’s not dramatic at all, but we have to be reminded that she’s constantly doing it so that about two thirds of the way through the movie, it can be done and then we can never see her again.

Todd: Yeah. Or. What’s the point? There’s no connection. Like I never got. I thought, is this a mystical thing? Like it, once this is put together, is there gonna be some kind of spirit released or something? I mean, that’s intensity would’ve made sense. It keeps ominously cutting back, back to her, like in the darkness with the camera swooping around.

And once again, I’m still like, I’m pretty sure she would need more light, not less to be able to put this thing together properly, but okay. It’s dramatic. And then it just is in the superstition exhibit, like they always planned for it to be there, even though it clearly arrived in pieces like a day before the gala.

Oh yeah. There’s a whole,

Craig: yeah, it’s got a whole setup for. Yeah, it would only make sense if you, we are paying so much attention to this shrine. I guess the reveal is kind of what it looks like. Be it, there should be some connection. There should be some sort of mystical connection between the Shrine and the Beast, but there’s not, there’s not at all.

They just happen to

Todd: both be there. Well, this is one of those points where you just figure the book is probably better because the book probably has more. There has has to be of

Craig: this in there. Yeah. And then so it’s a bunch of like the monster is. Surreptitiously, like killing people. It kills the guy in the bathroom,

All you see, you know, this guy just wants to smoke a doob in the bathroom, you know? Mm-hmm. , he’s just doing his own thing, gets, you know, ripped out, uh, from under there. And the, you said it was gory? I don’t know. I it is, it is, but I feel like I didn’t even, oh, it is notice because, um, , I dunno, it just felt a little silly.

Not any sillier than anything else we’ve seen. But this monster’s mo is that it rips its victim’s heads out, and then somehow like stamps a huge hole in the back of their head and sucks their brains out so that it can eat their hypothalamus and, and leave the rest. And if you want to enjoy this movie, take a shot every time they say hypothalamus, and at the end you’ll be dead.

Todd: I’m not sure I’ve ever heard hypothalamus being uttered in any other movie in my entire life. And I think that’s because this film took it all and every time it just sucked the word hypothalamus out of every movie in history and planted

Craig: it in the script. I, I, I have visions of them like having to do, uh, like retakes with , Tom Semore, hypothalmus,

I don’t, I don’t know why. I just have this idea that he would struggle with that word. What was that word again? Hypothalmus. Yeah, but I don’t know. I, and I don’t, I don’t mean to, I’m not trying to rag on time, size more. Y I didn’t chime in when you said something before. Yeah. He had his struggles, um, but his struggles were mostly self-destructive.

Yeah. Uh, I’m sure that they affected the people around him as addiction always does, but addiction is a disease and you can’t blame a person really for that. I’m sure he made some poor choices, so, . Yeah. He, I, I really do think he’s a really a fine actor. He, you’re right, he always kind of played the same role, but that’s the role he aspired to.

Um, yeah, those are the roles that he, you know, grew up watching the tough guys in these movies, and that’s what he wanted to play. Um, and, and he usually did another role, uh, a movie that I remember him from was, um, hardened Souls. I think I’ve mentioned it before. It’s a Robert, early Robert Downey Jr

Todd: movie.

That’s a cool one. My mom loved that

Craig: movie. Yeah. It’s a sweet little romcom kind of movie. And he’s in that, um, and he plays a, a similar kind of tough guy, but you know, a tough guy with a soft heart. And, uh, he was cute and he’s done other good stuff. I, I saw him, um, he did at the height of like exploitation.

reality tv. Not that it’s not still, but like back in the days of like Extreme makeover in the Swan in those days, he did one of those celebrity rehab shows.

Todd: Oh, Dr. Drew, right? I

Craig: think I, I, yeah. But anyway, some show where he openly discussed his, uh, issues and, you know, when he was sober, he definitely had a temper, but he was also, you know, detoxing and stuff.

But he seemed like a very thoughtful, intelligent, uh, empathetic person. But you know, he was just obviously a person who was struggling. So if I make any jokes at his expense, I do it in good humor. Uh, cuz I do think the guy was a good actor. Uh, it’s unfortunate that, um, he had those struggles and, and I know that there were times in his life where, , he would get clean for periods of time, and his friends and the people he worked with, with staged interventions, and there were people out there who really cared about him and wanted him to get better.

And, but addiction is, addiction’s a bitch, you know? Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s tough.

Todd: So, yeah. I mean, my heart goes out to the guy. I didn’t mean to sound like, uh, I thought he was a, an asshole.

Craig: No, no. You were actually , you were covering, you were covering for me because when we talked about it, I said, I don’t know.

You know, Tom, uh, sebos got kind of a sorted pass, and I just didn’t, I, I feel like we have to acknowledge it if we’re gonna talk about ’em as we always talk about these people and their lives. Yeah. But I, I also don’t wanna linger on it. It it, yeah. It doesn’t have to define him. You know, he was a, he was a fine actor as well.

Anyway, so then he comes in and he’s doing this investigation and that, like, at first there’s a body here and there. I need you to clarify something from me, because there’s a whole subplot where these two. Young runaway boys Yes. Decide to run away from school. And so to , they run away from, to spend the night from school to go to the museum.

What , I’m

Todd: not positive about this, but I think it was a school field trip to the museum. They were planning to run away from the museum trip to go to like a bar or so, or do something else, and other kids like, no, no, no, no. They’ll catch us. So they ended up going on the field trip. But I think the implication, although once again it’s, it’s like.

It’s like blink and you miss it, right? They decide to stay overnight.

Craig: Yeah. Guess. I mean, I, but I didn’t even like, I guess they just linger around till it closes because they hear there’s nothing like,

Todd: it doesn’t show us any of this. All it is is, you know, we’ve got all, we got them and you know, they kind of introduce us to Penelope and Miller’s character because they in a very awkward scene that made no sense.

Just randomly wander up to her and stare at her while she’s putting her bike up. Like, oh, she’s hot or something. underneath her sunglasses and all this stuff. Hey, couldn’t get it.

Craig: Hey, didn’t your parents teach you not to stare? Didn’t yours teach you not to get dressed in the street? Good morning, Dr.

Green. Morning Doctor, what kind of a doctor are you? I’m an evolutionary biologist. What’s that? Someone trying to figure out where a

Todd: tails went. I’m like, okay, I see how we’re gonna get this position in this movie. Thanks Dr. Green. And then she walks in there, they walk in there, and then there’s all this crap with her and, and everything that happens.

And then suddenly there’s a, you know, this, the museum’s closing and she’s sending everybody home and she’s still working late at night. Diligently, like researchers in this movie do. There’s a shot of the atrium, then the dark, and we just hear, I don’t, I couldn’t even see them, but we heard the kids talking almost like a voiceover, right?

Oh, it’s really scary in here. Well, what do you expect? We’re here, you know, late at night and everybody else is gone home. You think they’re gonna catch us? Nah, nobody’s gonna catch us in here. Oh, okay. Well, these are gonna be our first victims. That’s gonna be bold. Were you? Well,

Craig: but that’s the thing. We see them again later.

They’re gonna be

Todd: the kids that get wrapped up in it, you know, somehow. And like, you know, they’re gonna follow them through the movie. But that’s, but, but that’s

Craig: my, my question is, there’s that scene and I could see it. Okay. Um, because, you know, they’re, they’re in this huge hall. There are no other people there as it’s closing apparently.

But it’s the, like, the huge place with like the big dinosaur in the middle. Like it’s this huge atrium or whatever, all the

Todd: dioramas and glass around, it’s huge them and stuff. Yeah. It’s

Craig: cool. So they’re in there, they’re looking around and then they’re like, well, we, I guess we’re gonna stay the night. Okay.

Um, and then we’re away from them for a while and then we come back to them and they’re. Behind the scenes, they’re, you know, in the stairwells where the labs are like in the basement or something, and they smell something bad and everybody smells something bad. When the creature’s around, it must stink.

Um, so they smell something bad and then they hear something like a roar or something, and then it cuts away from them. And then I don’t recall ever seeing them again. Do we see

Todd: them one more time? It’s the same night the guy gets killed and, you know, the security guard smoking the tube in the, in the toilet gets killed.

Uh, and then suddenly the cops are there and we see the two kids huddled with blankets or whatever. Oh. And they usher the kids out. Okay. And I thought maybe the kids discovered the body and they’re the ones who called the cops, or they just, I, I didn’t, I didn’t get the kid thing at all how they were connected to it.

But then now they’re gone. I don’t know if the kids saw something and got spooked and that’s another thing, but like, who knows? Cuz that’s all. It’s like they’re deleted scenes with these kids. I, yeah, maybe they’re not. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t

Craig: know. It was weird. But I, I missed that. I missed the part where they were outside safe.

I didn’t know what happened to them. Mm-hmm. . But that’s, uh, and Tom Semore is investigating and he thinks it’s a serial killer when they have a body. I don’t even remember whose body they have, the, the janitor or something, I guess. Um, but it is evident that this was an animal attack like . And he, it’s no question.

No, there’s no question. And he even says something like to the, I don’t know, to the, the, the zany what? Coroner or whatever she is the lady who’s, um, preparing the body. She’s, she’s real funny. I like that bit. Yeah. And, and he says something, he’s like, what could have done this? She’s like, Something big like , but then he just goes on investigating it as though it is an insane person.

Yes. Um, that is killing people. And they eventually find some, it’s, it’s, it’s a fake out scare. I mean, it is a good jump scare, but they’re like searching through the basement and they’ve got these dogs and first they find a guy like a, a guy. jumps out and one of the cops shoots him like 15 times. Um, and I was like,

He just shot a vagrant. , yeah. But apparently it’s okay because apparently said . Apparently this vagrant was a convicted rapist and a suspected serial killer who, who just

Todd: happened, but then hiding out the basement .

Craig: There was some, didn’t they also say like he had some connection to the boat? , the, we, we, I skipped the, all the dead people on the ship.

When the ship arrived, everybody on it was dead. Yeah. And their brains sucked out. And their hypes,

Todd: I love it. Later in the movie, Penelope and Mil, you know, it’s one of those moments in the, in the lab where they’re putting two and two together and I can’t remember the exact line, but she says something like, oh yeah, they’re examining it. She, and the, and the, I know I’m jumping ahead, but I just gotta get this out.

She and the dude in the wheelchair are like looking at, you know, what they’re getting from the, the examination of the beetle. And she says This thing, this thing has all these different things in it. It’s got this and it’s got that and it’s got reptile and, and some, some other one we’re not sure what.

And the guy looks at the paper and he is like, this is odd. All of the chemical properties in here. Also what you would find in the hypothalamus . And she says, Do you think there might be some connection between that? And I’m like, no, absolutely no connection. must be a pure coincidence. And

Craig: her face, her face is like, I think you might be onto something.

Todd: No, it’s, it’s very common murder technique, you know, to rip people’s brains out and take their hypothalamus away. Oh

Craig: God. And they, they, they know that they’re taking the hypothalamus out because when the coroner goes to weigh the brain, she’s like, wait a minute. This thing’s light. Even for a man,

Oh, that, that she’s got jokes. She has got jokes. She,

Todd: I liked her. Oh yeah. She was hilarious. I did, I read that this was her last film. I don’t know. I didn’t know

Craig: who she was. She’s funny. Um, there’s other good people in this movie too. The, the, the, the lady in charge of the, um, museum, her name is Dr. Cuthbert.

Yes. And she’s played by, she’s played by Linda Hunt. I love Linda Hunt .

Todd: She’s great. Who doesn’t love her. And the great thing about her is she can have the same outfit and, and hairstyle and glasses in every movie she’s in. Uhhuh, , Uhhuh, . It’s like they, they write these roles for her. It’s fantastic. Yeah, she’s great.

Like,

Craig: I don’t even know, like in the things that I, I, I, she’s in so many things. Um, yeah. And God, she, I, I’ve never even seen Harold and Mod, but I think that’s her big, that’s her like big movie. Well, I guess

Todd: she was in kindergarten Cop, uh oh. She was with Penelope and Miller before this. That’s right. Yeah.

The, she played the principal.

Craig: Mm-hmm. . She was, she was good. That’s such a stupid movie. I love it. and, uh, I, this is another terrible movie. She was in She Devil with Roseanne Barr and Meryl Streep.

Todd: Oh God. That’s

Craig: a movie. That movie’s horrible. . It’s so bad. It like that. To me, that’s a movie that’s so bad. It’s good.

I just revel in, in watching Meryl Streep in that movie because I can’t imagine who tricked her into being in that movie . And she gives it everything she’s got. She still does a good job. It’s can’t be in Fun. I, but it is. It’s a terrible movie, but it’s hilarious.

Todd: That one played on like HBO or cable or something.

A lot, all the time. .

Craig: Oh, I recommend it . If you haven’t seen it, watch it. . .

Todd: Like, you wanna laugh? , you gonna laugh? I mean, it’s built as a comedy, but not that kind of comedy. It’s, it’s a dark comedy.

Craig: It’s, it’s pretty hilarious. Okay, so anyway, I guess we’re bored with this movie. I am. Right? Um, they, they, they’re looking around for the monster, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The bodies keep piling up. They killed that vagrant, but, but Tom Sizemore is still convinced that it’s gotta be him until then, the mo they finally just find the monster, like . Yeah. Eventually they look hard enough. They get deep, deep, deep into the bowels, of the building, and, uh, they have dogs. And the dogs smell the stink and go chasing and it kills one of the dogs and throws the body at its feet and their feet, and then, uh, kills one of the cops.

Todd: Um, oh, it’s so great. I, I love this that they’re down in the sewers below the museum and at one point, Somebody says, did you know that these sewers go all the way to Lake Michigan? And he’s like, wait a minute. Do you mean to tell me that if someone was on a boat in Lake Michigan, they could come through the sewers to the museum?

like, yeah, they could. This is so dumb. And, and why would the monster do this? This is the other part I don’t understand. I guess it needed to find the crates and it knew that they were at the museum. And so it went through the tunnels. I didn’t to get to museum, didn’t cause it. Also knew that there were tunnels there.

And what did it need in the crates? I, I don’t know. Did it need to be by its relic? It needed those,

Craig: the, was it protein? Whatever she found in those eggs, um, that fungus or whatever it is, has animal hormones, not protein hormones. It’s got hormones in it. And we get. Uh, the, the old guy in the wheelchair tells us, he’s like, oh, the legend must have been based on truth.

Okay, so these native people, there’s this plant or something. I don’t know where this hormone comes from. They get it from the, these leaves, I guess. And if they feed it, To an animal or something, then the animal will turn into one of these big beasts. Mm-hmm. and, uh, they can keep giving it the protein cuz it, or the hormones cuz it needs the hormones to stay alive.

But then when they want to use it to attack an enemy, they’ll stop giving it the hormones and then they’ll go into hiding so it doesn’t know where they are. And then it will kill all of their enemies to eat their hypothalamus .

Todd: Wow. How do you, did you have to read about this or did you ask? No, he

Craig: explained, no, he explains it in all the detail that I am.

Todd: When he was explaining it, I was just like, you know what, I, I, I don’t even care , I’m not gonna like this. Cause I couldn’t figure out what the hell he was talking about. It was so convoluted. And it all comes at once. And there’s your explanation. Uhhuh. , right. And it was like

Craig: he just figures out the whole thing.

in an instance. And so then, and so then they, the, the natives who released the beast, then they just stay in hiding so it can’t eat their hypothalamus. And eventually when it doesn’t have any more of that hormone, it will die. And so now I don’t understand how this happened. I guess it’s because he drank the tea with the eggs in it.

The scientist from the beginning is the monster.

Todd: Yeah. He’s one of the pieces. Yeah. There’s, he’s, he’s the, the human element that

Craig: comes out and, and I, right. And I, I think he was looking desperately looking for that crate because maybe if he could have kept. Eating the hormone, then he wouldn’t have turned into the monster, but be, no, but then he turned into the, I don’t, I don’t know.

Todd: I don’t know. You’d have to read the book for that.

Craig: I think. I, I guess, but he didn’t get it and so he turned into the monster. But I, I think maybe that explains how the monster would know, I guess maybe the scientist knew that there were these tunnels. Well,

Todd: The scientist definitely recognizes her. Oh my God.

We get our alien three scene later. That’s,

Craig: that’s the thing. So like, it begs the question, so they, they, she gets somehow, like the, the monster literally goos under a door and she scoops up, she scoops up some of the goo and puts it in her salad spinner and. Like it takes a while, but it eventually tells her that it’s like 33% human and it, it says 33% human.

And she looks at the old guy and she’s like, are you telling me that this thing is part human? And he’s like, no, I’m telling you that it’s more than part human

Todd: 33%. And I love how like the, the machine I guess, has to spin for a while to give her all the complete information. And our big reveal is when she ends up back in the lab, after they get chased away from the mon, you know, the, the monsters chased them to the lab, but they kind of barricaded against the door.

And like you said, it goose under and whatnot. She comes back in to look at the computer and the computer has finished his calculation. And not only does it tell us it’s human, but it tells it, it’s, it’s sophisticated enough to tell us exactly who it is. Yeah. give us a picture. Uhhuh , his personal information and everything.

This computer was way ahead of its time and she definitely should have gotten her grant for this.

Craig: Which begs the question, is he still in there? And I believe that they answer that question for us when, uh, first of all, the cheapest gala in the history of the world is happening upstairs. , like they are in this, the food , they are in, they are in this beautiful, the, I, I briefly, briefly lived in Chicago.

I never went to the Natural History Museum, but it’s gorgeous. Uh, just Oh yeah, seeing it here. It’s beautiful. It’s a wonderful set. It’s awesome. They wanted to film in New York and the, uh, natural History Museum there, but they, I, I guess in the book, the administration of the museum is portrayed poorly, so they didn’t want to do it.

Um, the Chicago Museum jumped at the opportunity, but it looks great except for there’s this gala set up in the back that looks like. a high school prom. Yes. . And like, it’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever, or like a a, a haunted house in a frat house. , like Right. This is what it looks like. Like the whole city is there.

It is a black tie affair. It’s been a huge deal. Like they have to have this gala. If they don’t have this gala, civilization as we know, it will fall apart. .

Todd: That’s why that’s important. This is to them, they practically say it. Yes.

the most important thing ever. To the point where sh the, oh God. What? That scene where the Mayor of Chicago calls the cop personally to tell him that he better not stop the gala from happening. It’s so embarrassing. . I know, right? . That’s really sweet. I wanna play that whole scene right here so people can laugh at it.

This is Mayor Row.

Craig: What’s your first name? Lieutenant Vincent. May I call you Vincent? Sure. Good. You can call me, your Honor. Tell you what, Vincent, looking forward to this gala tonight. My wife is too. She bought a killer dress that shows off her cleavage. Did you ever see my wife’s cleavage? It’s in all the papers.

Can’t say that I have, your honor. Well, you’re one of the few people in the city of Chicago who hasn’t. That cleavage helped get me elected. I bet you don’t know what to say. No, sir, I don’t. So the thing is, Vincent, this gala tonight is very important. It’s important to the museum. It’s important to my wife.

It’s important to the city, and it’s real important to Mr. And Mrs. Blazedale. You know who they are? No. Well, they’re good friends of mine. Real good friends. They’re good friends of the city, real

Todd: good friends. It’s so

Craig: embarrassing. And then there’s like a red, like they redeem the mayor at the end. Like the mayor sticks up for the cup.

Like, yeah, leave that guy alone. Like what? You’re, you’re

Todd: an asshole. Like you’re the dude , this is all

Craig: your fault. None of this would’ve happened if it weren’t for you specifically. Oh God. And my, my favorite part is when they know that there are dead people, like, and, and all the cops like storm the, the, the people who are wet, soaking wet, cuz they’ve been down in the basement, they’ve seen the monster.

They’re like, there’s danger. We’ve gotta get outta here. And they’re like, we, we can get out, we can go through these tunnels and these rich assholes are like, no. I’m not going .

Todd: Right? . And like the

Craig: cops are so concerned. If I were those cops, I’d be like, fine, fuck you, then come on. Like , right? Uh, but they, they like beg and plead with them to come and some of them end up staying back.

Some of ’em go just so we can get monster attacks in both locations and I, those are fun and exciting, I guess. You know, a big CGI monster. Storming around the museum, breaking stuff, chasing people.

Todd: But this monster is everywhere, and it’s down in the lab, and then in the next shot, suddenly it’s in the atrium.

And there’s these huge, there’s this huge scene when they finally get attacked, the rich people in the atrium stood behind. That’s the place where the douche bag people kind of get it right? Yeah. And at the same time, the cops are repelling down, you know, like worms on a hook for this thing, and it’s grabbing the cops.

And you get this really impressive scene. I, that was my favorite part. I think it was done with miniatures, right? Where, you know, you just see full on, it’s not dark at all anymore. Uh, that monster grab one of those guys from one of those wires that he’s dangling from, clamp his jaw around his head, rip his head off, and toss it aside, and then leap over it.

This lasts for like, A good five seconds. Yeah. It was a good sequence. It is a good sequence and it is gory. I mean, that is, you do not see something that explicit in that gory, usually in a mainstream movie like this. So the, you know, there are all this stuff going down and I then there’s a bit where they pull one guy up and he’s like screaming and screaming and suddenly stop screaming, oh, you know it’s gonna happen.

Mm-hmm. up on the roof. They pull him finally out of the skylight and it’s just half his body, right? Mm-hmm. and then, What are they doing now? The monster’s gone and it’s chasing people down in the sewers. Like how did the monster get from there? To the sewers then to the lab then back there. What are the cops doing in the meantime?

Because this place locks up like, it’s like a fricking nuclear facility. Like they have state secrets in this place. That’s the security system, right?

Craig: And who who did that? The, the ghost from death spot. Like why ?

Todd: This goes haywire, right? Yeah. Like

Craig: for, uh, for no explained reason. Like the whole sec Secur.

They’re like, oh no, the whole system is freaking out. Why?

Todd: Everything’s tripping at once. Why ? That’s a very good question, . But I, I want to blame the ghost from Des Spa.

That’s a perfect explanation. Oh God. Oh, I would rather be talking by Des Spa. I know. The movie

Craig: also tries to be, Jurassic Park. Yes. . And in that, like, it’s got some guys in the control room and it’s got, you know, the guards and then it’s got, you know, like the lady Doctor .

Todd: Mm-hmm. .

Craig: Good point. So it’s, so it’s she, you know, she’s like scientist, you know, it’s, it’s, so, it’s Jurassic Park too.

And, um, but it’s, it, but it also tries to be Jurassic Park by giving us kind of quirky characters, but that works so well in Jurassic Park. Yeah. Like, you know, with Ned and, and, uh, Samuel L. Jackson, like these, these little side characters are interesting here. They’re not like there’s this dumb ass. , uh, scientist Oh, who is like Penelope Miller’s rival or something, and he’s just this weasley little guy.

And from the time he’s introduced, I’m like, oh my God, does the monster eat him already? Like, , you’re right. .

Todd: He’s introduced as bait, basically.

Craig: Yeah. Oh my God. He has more screen time than the monster. I’m like, I hate this guy. Stop. Yeah. And, and then there’s the buddy cops, uh, doing their thing and it’s just, I don’t know.

It feels like there’s a bunch of different movies. There are. There are literally like four or five different movies going on here. You really are. Uh, then, I don’t know, this is stolen from another movie too. Eventually it chases Penelope and Miller all over the place. I was really disappointed that they took the time earlier in the movie to show us a huge.

Tank of flesh eating Beatles. And then nothing else happened with that. Yes, I, I guess there was a deleted scene. Somebody got eaten by the Beatles, but they decided it was too gross and so they cut it. But, uh, if they cut that, they should have cut the introduction of the Beatles, because I wanted them to eat somebody.

We were waiting for that. It chases her all throughout and like, there’s this scene where she runs through 15 doors, , and then the thing comes charging through, busting through those doors one by one. It looks great. Um, it looks a lot like the faculty, but uh, then she spills all the chemicals. I don’t know what happens, but it eventually, it, it, it gets to that alien three scene where she’s pinned up against a wall and the thing is right in front of her and she says, I know who you are.

And then I guess the scientist is still inside of him of the monster because it licks her boobs. What

Todd: like. Yeah, it felt really out of place in this movie.

Craig: The thing is like if it had showed its humanity by like licking her face or something, which I think happens in Alien four, that may have been something, but it very deliberately licked her breast in a lascivious way.

Like mm-hmm. . Oh, so this scientist was a perv too, like , right? Is

Todd: that the point? Without respecting the audience enough to even set up that he might have been this kind of guy, like, we don’t know this guy. That’s the problem. Right? Well, right. Or

if

Craig: it were like, if it were a hollow man situation where they had a history.

Yeah, that’s what I mean. Yeah. But no, it’s not there. There’s nothing, there’s no character

Todd: development or like, you know, that she had alluded to a relationship between them, right. Or she had talked about how he harassed her at work a lot or something like that. Right? No, no. It licks her. Yeah, it licks her boobs.

Oh

Craig: my God. I don’t know. And then she blows

Todd: it up. Well, she gets all Walter White with the chemicals and puts something magical together in a jar with a bunch of stuff real quick that she can toss at it. So as her, it licks her. The elevator comes just in time. So she’s able to toss this thing at it as she ducks into the elevator, which ignites all the flam