A weekly new home marketing podcast for home builders and developers. Each week Kevin Oakley, Andrew Peek, Jackie Lipinski, Julie Jarnagin, and other team members from Do You Convert will break down the headlines, share best practices and stories from the front line, and perform a deep dive on a relevant marketing topic. We’re here to help you – not to sell you!
Kevin
All right. She thought we had already talked about it. And we did. Everyone knows now the building certainty by Julie has been written, but I was like, No, the people need a full interview of just you. There's not an audio book currently, right?
Julie
No, not an audio book.
Kevin
So for those of of those people in the audience who are more like my kids, prepping for school by listening to their books are supposed to read over the summer, I don't know how I feel about that, but some people might need some more like insight in an audio format in order to encourage them to do something that apparently no one does anymore, which is actually read a book.
Julie
I love it. Well, this is fun. I've never done it from this side. I mean, obviously I'm on the podcast pretty regularly, but never in this seat before where you're interviewing, I guess me. So this is.
Kevin
First of all, we have to celebrate and I think we did this a couple times on social media, but people are buying your book. Yes. They read it and implement it. You know, fingers crossed. Hopefully you do good for your business and good for your career. But people are buying the book. It's already it's already fantastically successful, number one, in Amazon under real estate for new releases.
Kevin
I think for long. So who knows? Yeah, I like the fact that you get equally nervous discussing such things as I do.
Julie
Yeah, I know, I know. Well, it's a world like, I don't know. Some people know I used to write fiction, so I have fiction books out, but this is the still different. So this has been fun and it's been fun seeing people say, Oh, I bought multiple copies for my team. It's just it's been fun and the support has been great.
Kevin
Yeah. All right. Well, let the hot seat begin. The pleasantries are over.
Julie
Okay, I'm ready.
Kevin
And my main question for you is there are nine, ten, ten chapters in the book. Are there a couple of chapters where you feel like not not the ones that are your favorite to write or you learn the most when you're researching or looking into something, but that you feel like people need. Like a lot of times a little more context.
Kevin
When you work with 80 different homebuilders around the country, people are always like, How do you know what to talk about or insight? Because we just you can tell what people need. This was definitely something that people needed. But what are there particular chapters that you think people need more than more than others? When you look at what what folks are doing in today's landscape?
Julie
Sure. One is that probably the shortest chapter. Well, except for the last one, just kind of worksheet. But chapter five is all about like, what do we prioritize? I think what we see with a lot of builders that we're like, Hey, how's content going in the room? Because it encompasses so much and then they just don't know which of those many things that are out there should I actually be working on.
Julie
So it's about how to assess what you're currently doing, look at the needs of the company, look at what's out there in the future and how to actually figure out like, okay, what do we actually need to focus on right now and what do we need to start putting into place for the future? So that's kind of a short, quick chapter, but it's also helping them focus in on out of all these things we've talked about in the book, what what do I do first?
Kevin
Yeah, I think if you focus on those things that are most important, then you can start building momentum. And a lot of times people just get stuck. And like I talked to someone yesterday, well, we we partner with a company right now to help us create content. I talk to them for a half hour and then four or five weeks later they'll give me something in writing about what we talked about that she's just like, it just feels so slow and hard and it doesn't seem like this is the right, right way to be going about it.
Kevin
So I think we need to send them a copy of the book and I'll be helpful. But I agree. I think people don't. They're often disillusioned by response to content out of the gate. Mm hmm. I go I always go back to the podcast regularly. Now it gets 500 listeners per episode or so, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.
Kevin
I think the first like six month, well, first two months. Anyway, that we did the podcast, there was like 30 to 50 people and you're like, Is all this worth it? All this prep and getting the technology in place and all the rest. So if you focus on what's most important and the reason why is most important, hopefully it gives you momentum to keep going.
Kevin
So I love that one. Is there another one that you like? Yeah.
Julie
I think just the beginning of the book that kind of lays out what is content, why do we need it and just kind of a foundation, because it is a word that people throw around. And so some people, when they think of content, they think of social media and some people think of content and they're just thinking renderings and photos on my site.
Julie
But it's all of those things and more and I think I'm a very analytical person. I like a list. So in a way, a lot of the beginning of the book was just breaking things down into pieces where even if some of these things you just know from being in your role, it also is seeing it all in a structure of what topics are we going to cover, what mediums are we going to use, you know, photos, videos, whatever.
Julie
How are we going to distribute it then? How are we going to analyze it? It just kind of lays it down in a framework that you can start wrapping your arms around because it's just large.
Kevin
Yeah, I think chapter two could have been its own like book in a way as well, which is just what topics should we cover? Which I thought you might say that one, but here's, here's my answer anyway. Why? Number two is extremely important and useful, but I wouldn't have picked it either, is the answer really is stop thinking that everything around you is boring or mundane and just relent to the fact that you need to talk about it all.
Kevin
You need to have content related to everything. So in chapter two starts on page 22, ends on page 46, and has all I mean, the table of contents anyway, alone. There's two and a half pages of things you can talk about. So that's, that's like excuse wiped away. There is no excuse of, well we don't have anything to talk about.
Kevin
We're just a fill in the blank. We're just a first time home builder and all these people say this to us. Well, I only build 20 luxury homes a year. Well, I only build on your lot. And that's like, stop saying only. It's all interesting to to a certain audience.
Julie
And the reason I included all of those two is because I think we get stuck in one thing, like, Oh, I've done a million walkthroughs of my house and I've done a million testimonials. It's like there's other you can take the same things and take a different angle at them. I think the real magic that comes in all of these topics is when you start combining more than one topic.
Julie
So if you want to feature a floor plan, well how about also grab, you know, people who've lived with that floor plan and you're mixing the people, the homeowners and the floor plan. So a lot of it is just like kind of walling all those topics out on the table. So then you can start mixing and matching and instead of having to use your mental capacity to think of those topics, you can start using that creativity to then put together new and unique things to solve your problems and engage customers and all those good things.
Kevin
And I think the fact that people go down that habitual path is a clue to actually the right answer with some with some nudging to get out of a rut is like I remember your former employer. There is this period of time where like every I don't know, I seem like every couple of days or once a week there was a Matterport walkthrough with an audio example and you went through a whole bunch of that, that library because you developed a process and a framework and the strategy and a why.
Kevin
And once that momentum got going, it was relatively easy to keep it going. And I think that's what I really enjoy about the book, is it kind of unlocks that, Yeah, just do that. But on a on a different tangent from a different perspective or for a different purpose, again, like the same piece of content, the same advertising channel can be used for multiple reasons.
Kevin
And I go to my generally least one of my least favorite forms of media in billboards of a billboard can be a complete brand message, or it can be a turn right here. Message the neighborhoods right around the corner. It's the same. It's the same platform, but used for a different purpose. And that changes everything about how you're thinking about it.
Kevin
Same thing when it comes to content. Am I trying to educate someone? Am I trying to motivate someone? Am I trying to just not be boring? Because this is a complex subject and I need to break it into pieces that people want to absorb. I think it's just a fantastic, fantastic resource. Now, I can't remember I asked you this on the podcast or not, but it's worth asking again, when you wrote this, did you envision people going through it from beginning to end first and then using it as a resource to kind of get back around where you need it?
Kevin
Because it is I would say it's very snackable in that sense of like, again, you're like, I don't have time to read 130 pages.
Julie
Yeah, I really have two ways I think about it being is, number one, somebody who's been in their role for a long time, they know what content is, but they just need that little bit of like inspiration and, you know, to get them on stock, like you said. And that way it would be very good to just grab the pieces you need and flipping through it as you're, you know, you're stuck on something to possibly spark something.
Julie
That's one reason I left the whole when somebody was helping me with the formatting, they put that whole huge table of contents in and at first I was going to remove it and then I was like, You know what? It's actually going to be really helpful for somebody because it almost works like an index. It's like an index that the first of the book, because if they are struggling with maybe some storytelling content and they're wanting to get ideas for that, they can go straight to that part to talk more about their people in their company and their culture and all of those things.
Julie
Then on the other hand, it's also going to be a good resource for somebody comes in new to your department from another industry, and you just need to get them up and running like you're our new social media person. But I've never been in homebuilding. I feel like it also will give those people just a good foundation to read it cover, to cover and just, you know, have a beginning place of this is this is the basics of content and where to start and where to start looking.
Julie
And it just gets them up and going faster. So I think it does more than one thing.
Kevin
Yeah, I would agree with that. I as you, as you were just talking, I was remembering the dummies books, the series.
Julie
Yeah.
Kevin
For Dummies.
Julie
Oh. And it's yellow.
Kevin
And it's yellow. So I was like, you know what? This is almost like content marketing for dummies. Not not in, like, the condescending sense of the word, But there were certain topics where I would buy those books. For those of you who, like the other day, someone didn't know the song Ice Ice Baby by Vanilla Ice. So I am constantly reminded of how old I am.
Kevin
The dummies series was on every topic known to man, and it was kind of like in textbook format, but it tried to be entertaining as much as possible around every subject matter. But there were. There were some of those I would buy like Calculus for Dummies in college that was clearly just like, I need I need a supplemental.
Kevin
Look at that topic. Go read it. Okay, I'm good. It was a reference piece for me. And then there were others where you just from cover to cover. You're like, I just need to start at the beginning and be led all the way through. And the same book could be used either way. So I think that's important. Okay.
Kevin
Why the name building certainty?
Julie
Well, I totally ripped that off from Kevin Oakley.
Kevin
He was giving you a given.
Julie
Yeah, he. He promised he wouldn't sue me for that. So I think it was Summit's a couple of years ago.
Kevin
You're 29.
Julie
And part of your message was what is marketing? It's building certainty through content. So we were looking at content and marketing from that, from that viewpoint. So then when I start working on a book and started working on title, I just took that for you. And I think right now it is always what content should do. But right now, more than ever in the markets that we've been in is that's what we have to use it for.
Julie
Yeah, it's the basics of like, what do we build, Where do we build it? What does it cost? That's, that's number one. You need to have that. Your website needs to have the basics. That's number one to content. If you don't.
Kevin
Think it's worth, it's worth repeating slightly differently for everyone. Is pricing on your website is content that build certainty in one direction or another. And so even something as mundane as some companies have every price and then a909 for like even that there there needs to be thought put into it. I used to joke with people all the time, you know, when you just when every price change or adjustment this is in 2008 2000 and 2010 and we would publicly change pricing to match market versus promotions like you can't just every price change can't be ten grand or five grand or 15 because well, that clearly communicates to someone paying attention forever, subconsciously as someone
Kevin
is when, you know, sticks their finger up in the air. I think 10,000 less like why is it always around number round numbers are too convenient in something as complicated as what we do. It's just one. One small example of everything is content that can build certainty.
Julie
Yeah, all the basic stuff. And then just building certainty with with the rest of it. The story building, you know, telling your story, talking about your brand. All of that in the end isn't just to talk about yourself because nobody cares. Nobody cares about your brand and your what they care about is that, you know, you're going to take care of them and that you're going to solve their problems.
Julie
So it's looking at all your content from that different angle. Then it's just, you know, I'm going to slap something up there about us. It has to be about the home buyer.
Kevin
Absolutely. I think like the other day, my brother in law was in town from Sweden and he's he's watching all the cruise ship documentary things on the on Smithsonian Channel. And I saw ads for the first time in a while on television. And it was just every time there was commercial break extra, extra, extra, which if you don't know what extra is, it's just an office chair and it's from all accounts, like I love the chair that I have.
Kevin
It's fantastic. I have no desire for additional chair. But they talk about this chair in words and in depth that my brother in law was just like, You see this chair? This chair is like the best chair in the world. I go, I mean, it looks like it's cheap materials with a massage and heat function to me and it's chart and they're charging like triple what they should.
Kevin
But it just goes back to that. The care like that is a lot of times what people are thinking of what they want. Marketing to do is to increase absorption, increase the sales volume of a company. But there are a lot of people listening where your company is not really in that game. Your company's in the business of maximizing revenue per unit sold or margin.
Kevin
It's a higher end product. And so if you're talking about like if you're can you imagine buying something from what's like the cheapest furniture IKEA. Yeah like well yes an IKEA is unique in that they've really overindexed in the amount of content to help people understand what it is they're getting in a digital format. In particular, they're one of the first to have like air show this thing in your house.
Kevin
But we can still use IKEA if you are going to buy a sofa from IKEA or a sofa from Pottery Barn or I don't know, Henry Don Like if the amount of written content and imagery and the quality of such is on par, you would never buy it. You know, it's only the the overall and I think that's the other word that I think if I want to suggest book number two is in the series of content is something around the idea of curation because that's I just I think that more and more of that is that's what five chapter five is really about.
Kevin
It's like, why, why this and not that? And so it's it's both breadth and depth, but also curating it for an intended audience with that intended purpose.
Julie
Yeah, I mean, I think the book is proof that there's plenty of plenty of things to talk about, plenty of ways to do it. It's then taking a step back and looking at what's most important for your home buyer and what's most important for the home builder, for whatever where you are in the in the market. So I think that's what I see with builders.
Julie
Sometimes they're jumping out in front of things, trying to do content before just pausing it. Does that have to be a big, huge thing? Pausing, thinking through messaging, thinking through the final goal. Look at the what is the goal of this content and then working backwards through creating it.
Kevin
And I think one of the final like master level things to uncover and understand that sometimes you're creating content as a marketing team that's not for you at all. Meaning it's not for the website, really. It and everything should be there. But I would say a good portion of the content I created in my career prior to coming over to do Convert was creating content specifically for the use of of others in a 1 to 1 interaction framework here.
Kevin
Here is content that helps a salesperson overcome a specific objection as a proof source, as a packaged, curated solution to an objection that they need some help overcoming. It's not, it's not it's almost usually not the broadest possible audience that you can you can reach because it's hard to do that really, really well. And this is where I'm thinking about people like Tilson who have done such a good job, really going narrow and deep in their subject matter to create a really loyal and and devoted audience and what they do.
Julie
I mean, kind of on that, on that same realm, what I also see is people who create a great piece of content and then it goes out in one specific place for one specific moment. And it's like, why? Like I see this, this is great. Did you send it out in an email? Did you give it to your sales team?
Julie
Is it somewhere on your website? You know, it's just using those great things. You guys create in more places so more people get eyes on them.
Kevin
Yeah, the number of times we still hear Where is this on your website? Oh, it's not. It's just on our YouTube channel or just on on Instagram. And we're like, Huh, What? Yeah, And strange. Still still some challenges to overcome. Awesome. All right. Well, we look forward to giving a copy of this to everyone who's coming to the summit.
Kevin
350 additional copies there. Julie will be around to sign and engage. And you're going to talk a little bit more about the book as well. So, yeah, this is this is a big one. I I've had now seven people, I think just that I didn't even know that they were buying it. They just send me a picture. Is there a contest going on that I don't know?
Kevin
Why are people sending me pictures of them holding your book? Then maybe they maybe they need your number. So they're like, Look, I got it. This is awesome. Like, great. Tell you.
Julie
They're excited.
Kevin
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. All right, well, thank you from the industry for for spend all the time and energy to put this together We need it.
Julie
Yeah. Thank you. And most of all, as I was writing it, really, the only goal was to add some value for it to be something that you guys could use and be homebuilder specific. I've read a ton of marketing books and content books. It's like, Well, that's cool, but doesn't really fit. So really, that's all it's for is just for, for you all to get some, get some good ideas out of it.
Kevin
Yeah. So we can't wait to see all the stuff that people make. Hmm. Yes. Friendly kick in the tush. Mm hmm. On the ball.
Julie
No excuse.
Kevin
All right, Awesome. Go get your copy and link in the show notes. Tell us how you're using it as well. We can share that with others and give them ideas of of how you're using. I have heard of book clubs and and the like, and there's some other term there that I'm missing. But people are doing it in little groups, too, which is fun to see.
Kevin
All right. Thanks, Julie.
Julie
All right. This is fun. Thank you.
Kevin
Thanks for joining us. On another episode of Market Proof Marketing can't wait for the next one or looking to connect with other new home marketers. Become a member of our private community, the UIC all access, which is 100% free and always will be, get exclusive content not shared anywhere else. Access to private events and the ability to join a marketing impact group with other marketers like you around the country.
Visit our link in the show notes or members. Do you convert dotcom to join? All opinions expressed by me Andrew Peek, Jackie Lipinski and our cast mates are solely our own opinions. Now get to work and make sure your company is market us.
