Ep. 208: Drs. Kelly Yanek & Michele Kinderman — More Joy and Less Burnout with the Dual Therapist Model

My guests this week are Drs. Kelly Yanek and Michel Kinderman. I was truly excited to learn more about their dual therapist model where they see each client together—two therapists with a single client. They described how this approach keeps them interested and engaged at work, and makes them look forward to Monday mornings. I think you’ll find this conversation as fascinating as I did.

Topics we discussed included:

• Kelly and Michele’s unique Dual Therapist Model (DTM) of psychotherapy
• What led my guests to the DTM
• Burning out as a therapist
• The advantages of the DTM
• Having a real-time witness to the best and hardest moments in therapy
• The finances of doing therapy with two therapists
• The very different experience of having another therapist in the room
• The rewarding aspects of practicing with a fellow clinician
• Important considerations when choosing a co-therapist
• The continual work of being open and honest with one’s dual therapy partner
• Navigating the complex relational dynamics in DTM
• My own interest in a dual therapist approach
• How to get started in the DTM
• Kelly and Michele’s DTM training program

Michele Kinderman, PhD, is a Licensed Clinical Psychologist and co-founder of Wellness Outside the Box. For nearly two decades, she’s been successfully treating children and adults struggling with trauma, depression, anxiety, relationship conflict, parenting issues, and the stresses of everyday life.

Michele combines the more traditional therapies (cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, insight oriented therapy) with music, movement, and nature to assist clients in building their strengths and achieving their goals. She also loves animals and offers Pet Therapy. To maintain balance and serenity in her own life, she enjoys hiking, rock climbing, skateboarding, dancing, and spending time with her husband, two sons, and the family dog Zippy.

Kelly Yanek, PsyD, is a nationally certified School Psychologist and the other founder of Wellness Outside the Box. Kelly has had a love for the outdoors since she was a little girl climbing trees and exploring nature, and she’s been incorporating this passion for nature and adventure into her work since her career began.

In addition to her certification as a school psychologist, Kelly has specialized training in adventure-based counseling and the technical skills of high and low ropes/adventure courses. She’s also a certified yoga instructor. She takes great pride in the progress and success of her clients, and looks forward to helping you.

In her free time, you can find Kelly traveling, enjoying the beach, practicing yoga, running, cycling or swimming, and most of all, spending time with her family and friends.

Discover more about Kelly and Michelle and the Dual Therapist Model by visiting their website.