24 Spiritual Growth with Podcasters, Heidi Bolt and Heather Toews

24. Spiritual Growth With Podcasters Heidi Bolt and Heather Toews

 

**Transcription Below**

 

Genesis 2:1-3 (NIV) “Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.” 

 

Heidi Bolt is a passionate follower of Jesus. She is married to Kipp and the momma of their three children, Crosley, Wilder & Kollins. She home educates their children, while pursuing both ministry and career home based. She lives in the heart of Illinois and is passionate about Jesus, people and the Church. Heidi has served in ministry for 21 years and has helped launch three local churches as well as an inner city ministry. Heidi and Kipp serve on the leadership team of Church 2:14. She is a preacher and evangelist on the Church 2:14 teaching team. Heidi is a founder and co-host of The H&H Hour podcast with her sister, Heather Toews. Through this platform they help people see their ordinary lives as extraordinary. Heidi has a lifestyle rhythm of pouring encouragement into people right in front of her, starting in her own home and neighborhood. As well as mentoring younger women and helping equip people with the truth of God’s Word.

 

Heather Toews is a passionate follower of Jesus, a wife to her Canadian husband, Chris and mom to two fun kids whom she home educates. This is both an act of obedience to God and a joy.Along with husband, Chris and six other couples, Heather helped start and leads a local church and is the Director of the Teaching Team. One of her favorite things in the world is equipping and empowering others to step into their God given gifts. Heather is co-host of The H&H Hour Podcast with her sister, Heidi Bolt. The girls use this platform to encourage others to see the ordinary in their lives as extraordinary. She is also co-founder of BLDG58, a ministry called to “Empower leaders and families”. Chris and Heather launched this ministry in January of 2018 and are excited to see where God takes it. 

 

H&H Hour Podcast 

Brian Houston

Craig Rochelle

 

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Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)

 

Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”

 

Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

 

Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.” 

 

Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” 

 

Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” 

 

Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.” 

 

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

 

Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” 

 

Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

 

Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”

 

Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”

 

Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

 

Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“

 

Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“

 

Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

 

**Transcription**

[00:00:00] <music>

Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here. 

[00:00:17] <music>

Laura Dugger: Hey friends, we wouldn't be here without our sponsors. If you're interested in sponsoring an episode of The Savvy Sauce, please reach out to us at info@thesavvysauce.com. 

Today I want to say a big thank you to our awesome sponsor, Leman Property Management in Central Illinois. With over 1600 apartment homes in all price ranges throughout Morton, Pekin, Peoria, Washington, and Canton, they can find the perfect spot for you. Make sure you go check them out today online. You can look them up at MidwestShelters.com or like them on Facebook by searching Leman, L-E-M-A-N, Property Management Company. We'll make sure and link to all of this in the show notes. Thanks for the sponsorship.

Heather Toews and Heidi Bolt are sisters and co-hosts of their own podcast, The H&H Hour. They seek to glorify God by sharing what's extraordinary about ordinary life. They prioritize their families and community first, in addition to being actively involved in ministry, working from home, and homeschooling their children. 

We were introduced through our mutual friend, Jessie, and today we're going to discuss spiritual growth. I hope you glean something helpful from this chat. 

Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, ladies.

Thank you so much. We're so happy to be here. Thanks for having us. It's exciting. 

Laura Dugger: Very excited to have you. Can you just start by telling our listeners a little bit more about yourselves? 

Heidi Bolt: My name is Heidi Bolt, and I have grown up in Central Illinois, right here, for my entire lifetime. I'm married to Kip, who also grew up in this area. We have three sweet little ones. They're all under the age of six. So it's been a busy few years. And my heartbeat is the local church. Just pointing people to Jesus and allowing people to see the hope of Jesus through the local church. I have been in local church ministry for 20 years. 

Laura Dugger: That's incredible. Heather, what about you? 

Heather Toews: My name is Heather Toews and I'm married to my one and only love of my life, Chris Toews. He's Canadian, so that's a fun little fact that sets me apart. We have two kids. Bennett is 11 and Juliet is 8. I, like Heidi, am so passionate about helping people find Jesus and pointing them to Jesus and really creating platforms where they get to express their own stories and their own gifts and use them. 

We do that in a couple of different ways. We do that through our church, but we also do that through our own podcast. And that's really my heartbeat is just helping people find this path of their own where they get to meet Jesus and share Jesus. 

Laura Dugger: Well, I am a regular listener of your podcast, The H&H Hour, and something that I've noticed that you both do extraordinarily well is champion the gifts of others around you. So if someone's listening and they want to learn how to apply that to their own lives, can you share how you do this? 

Heather Toews: That is honestly something that I didn't realize was my heartbeat, but I was doing it. And I think just in the last few years, I began to put words to that and understand that that was a gift that God had given me, was to champion people, was to help create lanes for them to run in. And instead of just focusing on "this is my lane and I'm going to run in it," going "What is your lane and how can I help you run in that?"

That looks very different. Sometimes it looks like giving people an opportunity that they might not already have in terms of coming on a podcast or getting involved in our local church or starting their own Bible study in their home or, you know, can look like lots of different things. And sometimes it's just simply encouraging them in their everyday life and saying like, Look at this platform you already have with your kids. You have such an amazing opportunity right in front of you to every single day point your kids to Jesus and to create this culture in your home where they're beginning to see from a perspective that points them back to Jesus every day. [00:04:41] 

So it can look like small things and it can look like really big things. But I have just become such an advocate of being a champion for other people and helping them find boldness in the gifts that God has put in them and not hold back from that. Even if it looks different than what the world might say is the right lane to run in or what your family might say is the right lane to run in, like go for it. 

Heidi Bolt: Well, and just to echo that, Heather is... it is truly one of her gifts I can say that as someone that's so close to her. We're best friends, we're sisters, but we've been in ministry a long time together. So now even podcasting together, I feel like the Lord has even strengthened our heartbeat for each other. 

But I would say one of her primary gifts is being able to see the gifts that God has put within people and call that out of them. Which is so unique. And with that, she has such a high capacity for people and for, honestly, dealing with the rough stuff that comes with it. Helping people get through those excuses of why they're not stepping into what God has for them and helping them go, Okay, now we're gonna take this step. [00:05:51] 

So I would agree with you. That's one of your primary gifts. And that's, I think, one of the greatest things about God allowing you to be in your position of leadership is because you do champion others around you. And it's never about you. It's never about your platform. 

Somebody said recently on one of our episodes, he said, you know, to light someone else's candle, it doesn't snuff yours out. And Heather does that so, so beautifully. So I don't know if that answered your question, but-

Heather Toews: I didn't always know that that was my gift, but I feel like I was just doing it without putting a label on it. I think so often we look for the label before we have-

Heidi Bolt: The title. 

Heather Toews: ...walked through the actual work of it, like we've actually done it. There's such a big thing right now about, well, what is my calling, what is my gift, who am I supposed to be, where do I fit into this big picture of ministry or life or any sort of a calling that we might have? [00:06:51] 

As I began to realize that I had been faithful in doing what was right in front of me, God began to really define, put definitions and borders and a title around what I had already been doing. I think that's really important for someone to hear is be faithful in whatever it is that's right in front of you, and at some point, you probably will go, Oh, that's what this is. 

Laura Dugger: Are there any stories or examples that come to mind of somebody that you did see this gift and you were able to name it and call it out of them? 

Heather Toews: Oh, wow. I mean, I- 

Heidi Bolt: So many. 

Heather Toews: Countless. Countless stories. I think that the beautiful thing is that it's not always a big platform gift that you call out of people. I think so often it is the everyday ordinary things that God has already put in them that they're just not recognizing as gifts. 

So it might be a young mom at home who is so good at having people into her home and making a cup of coffee. [00:07:55] And to her, it's normal, but to the rest of us looking in, we go, that's your gift. You have the gift of hospitality, you have the gift of encouragement. And as you're bringing other people into your home, you're creating a safe place for them. Sometimes they just need someone to point that out and say like, that's a gift that I see in you. 

I remember one time, this was quite a few years ago, probably eight years ago, we had a young man sit in our home and he looked at my husband and myself and he said, "You guys are the best people I've ever known at encouraging us to go for something, even if we're not quite deserving of it yet." That really struck me and it hasn't left me because that's who I want to be. Like I want to see someone and not just see their mistakes or not just see what they could be down the road. I want to call it out in them right now. 

I talk about that a lot on our own podcast about our kids. Don't talk to your kids about "what do you want to be when you grow up?" Talk to them about who they are right now. I think that's true with anyone. 

Heidi Bolt: Well, and for me on a personal note, I've always been a communicator and my heart is in evangelism. [00:09:01] So talking to people about Jesus and God's word comes natural for me. But I married a man who is much more quiet and introverted. And so when this whole concept of the way our church is structured, we have a teaching and a preaching team, and there are multiple ones of us that rotate. So we teach on different things and based on our different gift sets. 

My husband is now part of that team and has been since the beginning of the church. And it has been so unique because he would have never said, "Oh, I'm a teacher, I'm a preacher, I'm an evangelist," but he is. And it's been so cool because truly it was Heather who started to call that out in him and to go, "No, you have a voice that's needed on this team. You might be wired differently than Heidi. You may not be the upfront evangelist, but the way you present God's word and the perspective you bring is so important and is so valuable."

So for me, on a really personal note, watching my own husband have that spoken over him to go, "No, you are worthy to be up here." [00:10:03] And I think it's too unique because he does come from a home of divorce. And so just a lot of those seeds that were put in him from a very young age as a 5-year-old boy going, "Where do I fit? Do I belong? Why is my home broken? Am I with Dad? Am I with mom?" So, having that ability to go, "You're a son of God. You belong right here in this church. You belong right here in this position of authority to speak the grace of God over people," to me, that's been very profound. 

Laura Dugger: I think Jesus did that so well, even with the people that we read about in the Bible. Nobody was perfect when He called them, but He spoke of what they could be. And it sounds like you're passing that on. 

Also from listening to your podcast, it's clear that God's word is extremely important to both of you. So what are you currently reading and learning from the Bible? 

Heather Toews: I am currently diving into Mark. I love the Gospels. And I know this sounds super cliché because everyone's like, Oh, the Gospels. [00:11:05] But I've been walking through some really hard things with some people close to me recently. And as I've been in prayer about it, I keep just thinking, Jesus, how would you walk this out if you were right here in physical form next to me? What advice would you give me? 

And so I've just been going to the gospels to go, okay, how did Jesus act? How did He respond to people that... situations that were hard? How did He physically walk out the truth of God? So I'm in Mark right now just kind of reminding myself anew of how Jesus walked it out. 

Heidi Bolt: I am doing two things. I pretty much stick in Psalms consistently. I feel like Psalms for me is a place where I get refreshed. It's where the Lord just takes... whatever it is that I'm going through, He has a word for me in that. And it's almost like balm on my heart, on my soul, you know, where He can just fill me up and heal me or encourage me. 

Psalms is like... it works for everything, you know? And so I stick there all the time. Sometimes I read it from beginning to end, you know, however long that might take me, and sometimes I just randomly turn to a psalm and read that. [00:12:18] 

His word is always so true and good to meet us where we're at. But I also find that I have times where I'm... like right now I'm in Revelation. That's more of a learning and getting knowledge and getting information and studying and going a little more in-depth. 

So I think it's really important that we learn how to read the Bible in two different ways. One, where we're getting filled up and we're in an intimate communion with the Lord. And then also, what am I learning from the Bible? What am I studying? How am I equipping myself with more biblical knowledge so that I have a better understanding when I talk to people or when I'm teaching it? 

Revelation is one of those books that lots of people ask me questions about all the time. They find it scary. They find it confusing. They find it like, I don't really understand this. It is a little bit unknown because most of it is prophecy about things that haven't happened yet. I love looking at the Bible as like all of these things that have happened. And then there's a lot that we may be living in a time where we still get to see this part of the Bible come to life. [00:13:26] 

So I have been diving into that and it is so interesting and it is so hard to understand, but just asking the Lord to give me clarity on some things so that when I do teach it, when I do talk to people about it, I have a little more insight.

Laura Dugger: You both mentioned there's five children between the two of you, and they're pretty young still. So if somebody's listening... you said you're great, Heather, at going through excuses. So if they're listening and they think, when do I have the time to do this, what word would you share with them? 

Heather Toews: That's so good. That's a great question. I think moms specifically use their kiddos as an excuse to not be in front of Jesus. But I also think a lot of those same moms are on social media a lot. Sometimes it's taking something out to put something else in and if it means every morning you're grabbing your phone and maybe do a test for yourself. Go, Okay, I grabbed my phone at 7:05 and I didn't set it down until 7:20. That's 15 minutes of time that you could have been in God's Word. [00:14:30]

The days that you choose Jesus over other things, I promise you, you will see the fruit of that. So it can be super simple. Sometimes for me it's sitting on my couch with my cup of coffee with all of my kiddos, honestly, not being perfectly peaceful coloring in their books or playing their puzzles, but letting them watch a TV show while I get into God's word or letting them, you know, play a game on my iPhone. I know that sounds horrible, doesn't it? But this is real life. This is me going, "I need time with Jesus." And if I don't have three little kids saying mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, every 10 seconds, then I'm gonna be able to get into God's Word. 

Then sometimes it's later at night where I have a little bit more uninterrupted time where I know, Hey, I'm gonna get 45 minutes to read and to study because everyone's finally asleep. So really just not being a stickler about it, like this has to happen like this, or else it doesn't count, knowing that it's gonna ebb and flow and being okay with that. 

Heidi Bolt: I'm in a little bit different season because my kids are a little bit older. [00:15:33] I actually have to go wake them up in the mornings, which is crazy that we've reached that stage. So I do have time in the mornings to dig into God's word. But having said that, having older kids, our schedules are very busy and we're constantly going. 

So I've had to learn that it's okay to sometimes have my quiet time be in the car while I'm waiting at a baseball game, the game to start. Or my quiet time might be driving and listening to a podcast, a sermon, you know, which is filling me up and speaking God's truth into me. 

So not having such a rigid view of what being with the Holy Spirit, being with God looks like, and being able to change that up as my seasons change, you know, once school starts, that'll change again. And just having this flexibility to know that God doesn't limit us to sitting on the couch and opening our Bible to speak to us. He can speak to us. And honestly, He speaks to me the most when I'm in the shower. Which I seriously need someone to come up with a way to take notes in the shower where it won't get washed off. 

Laura Dugger: I think it's out there. I think it's like a shower marker. 

Heidi Bolt: Permanent marker. [00:16:42] Because I do feel like I hear from God so intimately in those moments because it's quiet and I'm just focused and I'm not distracted by the laundry or by the phone or anything else. Just being willing to let God speak to you no matter where you are. 

Heather Toews: That's good. 

Laura Dugger: You mentioned the Holy Spirit. How do you both personally hear from the Holy Spirit? 

Heather Toews: That is such a good question. As I've gotten older, I've learned that He's constantly speaking. It's learning to identify what is His voice and what is my own or what are lies from the enemy. And that is not always easy. I think that comes with knowing Jesus. 

The more you spend time with Him, the more you're in communion with Him and you're in your word, you will begin to be able to differentiate when it's the Holy Spirit or when it's your flesh, or when it's from the devil. Because our feelings lie to us and I believe that Satan is constantly trying to get those thoughts into our minds. You know, what gets our minds gets us. [00:17:48] So he uses our minds a lot. But on the flip side of that the Holy Spirit is constantly prompting us. 

So for me honestly there have only been a handful of times where I actually feel like I've heard... I wouldn't even call it an audible voice but I would call it like a whisper or just almost like it's this loud voice in your mind where you know it's the Holy Spirit, you know it's the Lord speaking to you. Most of the time, it's just a feeling inside my soul, and I go, "Oh, that's the Holy Spirit. I need to follow up on that." 

Heidi Bolt: I would say for me, I most often recognize that it's the Holy Spirit when it is directly mimicking what He's speaking to me through His word. Like I'll feel this thought or this feeling and I'll think, Man, is that an idea from God or is that an idea from me? And I'll go, "No, that's got to be the Lord because it is so much of what He's been speaking through His word to me."

I would say you're probably not going to hear from the Holy Spirit if you're not in His word because that is how He starts His communication with us is by knowing His word. Because then when life happens you are able to recall the truth that you've learned in His word, you've put it in your heart, you've put it in your mind, you've put it in your soul. [00:19:01] 

So those are the thoughts that come to mind when life happens. Because let's be real life is going to happen, isn't it? Like we've got littles, we've got marriages, we've got businesses, we've got people. So life is going to get messy. 

I think the Holy Spirit is the overlooked part of the Trinity. We all believe in God and we all love Jesus and we're so passionate about Jesus. And then it's like, "Oh, but the Holy Spirit feels kind of scary because it seems a little unknown. So let's just leave that aside. Let's put that up in the little attic room of our world and pretend it's not there so that we don't have to deal with it so that we don't have to face conviction." 

For me, it's that willingness to acknowledge the Holy Spirit's the one that's here. Jesus said, "I'm going to send Him as your helper, and it's better for you if he comes and I'm not here." So, knowing He's right here all day long, every day, guiding me, leading me, prompting my thoughts, prompting my reactions and my responses, and I get to decide if I follow those promptings or if I ignore them. And I'm not always perfect at following them. [00:20:03] On days that I feel grumpy, I know: "I think I'm ignoring the Holy Spirit right now because He's not grumpy."

Heather Toews: I've also found too that He is so good to give you confirmation. When you follow through with something, you know, say, If you feel like, hey, text this friend and encourage them, and then you do that, and then they respond with, I desperately needed this, that's when you can go, Okay, yay, I listened to the Holy Spirit and I followed through with that. And He will do that. He will confirm to you that you've heard His voice. 

Heidi Bolt: And don't you find, Heather, that as you do that, as you start to step out, even if it feels uncomfortable or awkward or like, "Why would I do this? This is so weird. I don't even know her very well." But as you start to do that, you start to go, Okay, that was God. Then the next time it comes up, it is more familiar and you recognize it. 

Just like I would run into you, Laura, and go, "You're Laura. I know you because I sat across from you and I podcasted with you." Next time I see you I'm going to remember that you're Laura and you podcast because I've been with you. [00:21:01] So it's recognizing... And it becomes a rhythm. It really does become a rhythm in your life. 

Laura Dugger: That's so beautifully put and such a difficult concept to talk about. The next topic can be a little tricky, but can you shed light on the biblical wisdom of being a woman with the spiritual gift of leadership? 

Heidi Bolt: That is a great question. 

Heather Toews: It is. And you're right, it is tricky. Right now our world is very much consumed with a lot of this conversation, both inside the church and outside of the church. Like, when I see people who I really respect and who are seasons ahead of me in ministry, and they're just now coming out and they're saying, "Enough is enough. It has been too long that women have been held back." And I want to be very clear, I am not talking about this from a women's liberal-

Laura Dugger: Like a feminist-

Heather Toews: ...feminist standpoint at all. I 100% believe that there is an authority structure that God has designed both inside the church, inside families, inside marriages. [00:22:04] However, I do believe that for women, what God has designed and put in us has been held down because of religion, because of legalism, because of misinterpretation of God's design, both in marriage and in the church, and in leadership roles. 

I am so excited to be on this breakthrough really that I see in the church for women's voices to not only be heard and allowed but to be respected. And knowing that we have such a different gift set than men have, and we bring such a different perspective to the table. 

I often will look at a table of people, and it doesn't matter if it's a business or a church, or a family, and if there's not a woman there, they're missing out because of the way that God designed us. God designed men and women to complement one another, and their gifts to complement one another, and I don't think that the church is separate from that. [00:23:07] I think if he designed it in the family to be that way, then it fits inside the church that way too. 

I think what has happened is there has been... over the last 50 to 100 years, there has been a few scriptures that have been taken so out of context in the way that they were written and in the culture that was going on in that particular church, that particular local church of that day, that has shaped this idea of women being silent in the church and of women's gifts being secondary. And they are not secondary. It is about time that God starts to get the glory instead of Satan getting the victory in terms of women's roles. 

Heidi Bolt: Heather, I think that's such a great answer. I think it's so important to understand... Okay, so Heather and I are both leaders in our church. However, we lead right alongside our husbands. We're under their authority. We're under their protection. They are championing us. It's not as if, you know, we're on this leadership team that's just women-run and women-based. [00:24:15] 

All of us women leading on our team are leading with our spouse right alongside us as one, as a team. and so that's the unique part of it. I think it would be easy for people to look in and go, well... not meaning just us but women that think they are leaders have a lack of authority in their life. That's so unique because for us I look at our leadership structure and we've got these six couples, we've got six women leading, six men leading, all six of these men go, we approve of this woman leading, we approve of this woman leading, and they are championing us. 

So I think it's important for maybe if there is a woman listening going, man, I feel like God's calling me to this, really step back and go, "Okay, God is calling me to this." Has He put men around you that are helping call that out in you?" Also, though, it's important to understand that I have not always had the men in my life who were my leaders supporting the cause God was calling me to. [00:25:13] 

So I had to be faithful to go, Okay, Lord, I know this is what you're calling me to, but the voices around me are saying, Well, you're a woman, so you're not qualified or you're not the one to do it because you're not a man. What do you say about me, God? Who do you say that I am? How have you designed me? What are the gifts you've put in me? The gifts you've put in me are communication and of God's word and of evangelism. So if you put those in me, I know they're supposed to come out of me."

And so doing it in a way that is honoring to Jesus and frankly honoring to the men around us as well, not assuming like we are better than them, we can say it better than them. Absolutely not. My favorite thing in the entire world is to watch the men of God in our church step up and lead. And they're leading so well around us. 

And I think that is the reason God is raising up women leaders within our church is because the men are leading also. Not because there's a lack of leadership from the men. That's not why there's women leading. Because the men are leading and they are empowering their women around them. [00:26:13] 

Heather Toews: I love too that there are men now on the church stage, the global church stage, that are recognizing that and speaking out and propelling this idea specifically inside the church. Great leaders that we love and follow, Brian Houston and Craig Groeschel. They're championing these women around them. 

I heard Craig Groeschel say this the other day, and I thought it was so good. He said, "When I look at a job application for hiring someone inside of our church," he says, "I don't look at whether they're male or female. I look and I say, "Which one fits the job position the best?" That's really such a beautiful way of looking at it. Who has the gifts that fit this role in our church? 

Laura Dugger: Now, what about the person who's pushing back and they say, well, there's scripture that says that women should be quieter in church? You've talked about the Bible informing your decisions and the Holy Spirit affirming that. Can you think of any scriptures that go along with what we're talking about? [00:27:11] 

Heidi Bolt: Oh, there's countless. And I think that they get overlooked because the few that talk about women being silent in the church get such a big platform. I don't think that we can take a few scriptures and leave everything else out. 

If you look traditionally at the stories in the Bible, God often used women to start local churches. Lydia was one of the first people to help create a local church when the church in Acts began. She funded it because she was a businesswoman. She held it in her home and opened her home up. If you can't call that church ministry, then you can't call anything church ministry. 

Esther, you know, the role that she was put in. She was leading her people. She called her people to a fast before she went before the king. 

Laura Dugger: Which is a biblical discipline. 

Heidi Bolt: A biblical discipline. So that looks a little bit different than what we look like in the church today, but it's the same thing. It's a group of people following God and her stepping up in leadership, the gifts, and the role that God had put her in that season. [00:28:12] 

So there are countless examples of women who were involved in ministry. It's just those don't get highlighted as much as the couple of verses that say. I think it's very important for people to study the context which those few verses were written. 

There were issues inside the local church that that particular book was written to, that Paul was addressing because of some things that were going on. It would be no different than if there was something going on in our church that and someone in leadership wrote a letter or got up on stage and spoke specifically against a certain spirit that was happening or a certain issue that was happening inside our church. And that got recorded. And then 2,000 years down the road, someone said, well, this is the only way it can be done, not recognizing that it was something that was going on in our particular local church. 

So you have to read it in context, you have to understand the culture that was going on in that time and really look at the Bible as a whole and not as one or two verses and choose those as your platform to stand on. 

Heather Toews: Well, and I think someone that would be pushing back, I think that we have lived in a history in our culture for many decades where women were told what they were not. We've spent a long time preparing people's minds to believe that is truth, wiring people's brains to believe that that is true. [00:29:39] So, it may take a while to see some of this undone. Now, I do believe the Holy Spirit can accomplish in moments what can take decades to create an issue within. 

Heidi Bolt: I think in today's culture you can find negativity about anyone or any place or anything or any church or any restaurant. You know, your husband's in the restaurant world. I'm sure there's people that hate on y'all because you're closed on Sundays and they think that means you think you're better than them. And it's like, that's not the heart of it, is it? The heart of it is giving your people rest. 

Anytime someone has negativity and pushback about something, it's probably one of two things. Either a root in their thinking or their heart that they themselves need to work through, an insecurity in their own life, or two, it's that they just simply are unfamiliar with it, and so therefore they're worried to go there. 

Laura Dugger: And it makes me think what you're doing, thinking of Priscilla and Aquila as well, just a married couple going after it together. [00:30:43] 

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Laura Dugger: Why is rest important as a Christian, and what does that look like in your own lives? 

Heather Toews: Oh, I love this topic so much. This is something that my husband and I have had to learn. And honestly, it is vital to our longevity, both in our marriage, in our family, and also in our ministry. I will say that for many years, we did not rest well because we were yes people. Yes to everything because we wanted to please the people we were serving, the leadership that we were under. Whomever it was that was in front of us, we wanted to make them happy by saying yes to everything. And it about killed us. 

The reality is we had to get to the point where we realized we were the only ones who were going to protect our own time. [00:32:57] No one else was going to do it for us. No one was going to stand at our door and say, nope, don't accept that one, or nope don't accept that, even if they were really good things. 

A few years ago we started implementing when we would sit down and look at our calendar, which first of all creating an online calendar that we both have access to that we put everything on has been one of the best things for our marriage. And it's something we tell young married couples right away: have a joint calendar because you will forego so much miscommunication by having that happen. 

But one of the things that we had to start doing was putting white space. We actually use that term "white space" and we put it on our calendar for certain evenings, certain days. Okay, so we've even done this for say a certain month where we've had a couple of months that have been really busy, have been really full, we haven't had any white space, we haven't had any downtime. And so we might look at the next month and say, this month is white space. And then protecting that for our family and for our marriage so that we can have longevity in ministry so that we can keep loving people and encouraging people. That has been really important for us, both in our marriage and in ministry. [00:34:14] 

Heidi Bolt: That's a great answer. I could truly echo her. We tease that Heather and I have a cloud that our brains just exist within. And so we will say the same things. And so I could truly echo her. But I have two thoughts. One is our Mom truly taught us from a young age to say yes to what was best and to be willing to say no to what was not best.

She taught us that and she really lived that out. And it wasn't in a way of keeping people out or of not being willing to be productive. She was super productive. It was in a way of really recognizing what we put our efforts into, and what are the options we let pass. 

Then second of all is I really believe if God's Word examples it, we also need to follow it. In case our listeners aren't familiar, you know, I believe in the Word of God. And the Word of God starts in Genesis 1 where God begins creating this world that we live in. We are all still reaping the benefits of how He designed this planet. [00:35:15] 

Genesis 1 goes through the six days of creation and all of the beauty that was spoken literally into that. Then Genesis 2, it says this. And I'm going to read it. It says, "...so the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in them was completed. And on the seventh day, God had finished his work of creation, so He rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy because it was the day when He rested from all his work of creation."

So I'm sitting here thinking, If the creator of the universe, who knows the number of hairs on our heads, who knows everyone by name, who breathed his breath into every single one of our lungs, if He Himself rested and then we probably should be too. So just creating that rhythm of allowing yourself to rest. It's not a laziness. It's an actual act of obedience to the word of God. 

Heather Toews: And I also believe that we have gotten so busy and so consumed with all of the things, both in our own lives and in our kids' lives. [00:36:20] And it's really, I think, a distraction that the devil is using to keep us from true rest. Because when we're so busy and our minds are so full and our schedules are so full, we really miss out on hearing what the Holy Spirit is speaking to us because we're constantly going, going, going, going, going. 

I think it's a weapon the devil has used, and I think it's time that we say, no, we're going to be in control of our schedules. That might mean you take your kids out of one or two or three events. That might mean you step back from saying yes to some things that are really fun and really good and you might hurt some people's feelings and they might not understand it, but you create space so that you don't feel frazzled all the time.

Laura Dugger: I want to be careful with how I word this next question because I think it could be misinterpreted as minimizing our relationship with God down to a to-do list. But that's not what I'm intending. So hopefully you can understand my heart behind this. [00:37:21] But what are some practical ways that we can all grow spiritually with God?

Heidi Bolt: That's a great question. I think so often people want to minimize their relationship with Jesus based on what society tells us a relationship with Jesus is. A lot of times that is simply going to church a few times a year for many Christians here in America. 

This is so interesting. I've recently gained a new friend in a new neighborhood that I'm in, and she is a recently converted Christian from the Muslim faith. And as I talk with her and as I hear what she sees a relationship with Jesus Christ looking like, through her eyes that are so fresh and so new, I almost feel like my eyes are being reopened to the joy of salvation, to the truth of salvation. 

I would say some practical things in following Jesus, open His word. Because God's word it says it's living and it's active. You know, we wake up in the morning and we think, Oh, I'm thirsty. So what do we do? We get a drink of water. Or, I'm hungry, so we make our eggs and our toast, right, and we eat and we consume the things that we know will nourish us. [00:38:40] 

So practically, spiritually consuming God's Word. And not just reading it, but then applying it. Going, okay, I might read one verse today and then focus on applying that one verse. So if you're a super busy, overwhelmed mama, that one verse might be the word and the life you need for your soul. 

And then being willing to converse with God the Father about everything. Nothing is too small. You know, being able to go sit in your closet, and cry about your 3-year-old if you need to do that, and say, "God, I am so frustrated right now. I don't even like being with him right now." And being willing to be honest with God, because God already knows your heart. And so as you vocalize those things to God the Father, He's just like a parent, like us, where when our child says to us, "I'm feeling lonely," or "I'm feeling broken about this," He is communicating that to us and then we're able to help fill him up in the ways that his spirit needs filled. 

God's the same way with us. I think we have made it way more difficult than what it needs to be. It's really like a father-son relationship where you just hang out with God and get to know Him through His word and through prayer. [00:39:53] 

I would say there are definitely some deeper spiritual rhythms that you can implement down the road as you know God more. But I think that's where it starts. 

Heather Toews: We live in a day and age where it's so easy to access so many things that help us with this. So you can pull it up on your phone. You know, YouVersion is an amazing tool, and there are countless studies on there for anything. If you're anxious, you're struggling with anxiety, you can type in "anxiety" and it'll pull up Bible studies for that. 

My practical advice would be find some people that point you to Jesus and spend time with them. Call them and meet for coffee with them, hang out with them. Hang out with those people instead of the people that drag you down, the people that are always talking about what the latest clothing that they bought. 

And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that fun stuff. We like that fun stuff too. But you know how there are those friends that you leave and you're like, "Oh, I feel drained." And then there are those people that you're like, "I feel so full, I feel so energized because they just pointed me to Jesus." [00:40:57] 

So if you don't have those people in your life, find them, spend time with them, and then get into a Bible study. If there isn't one available around you, start one. I know that sounds super intimidating, but it's not. You can order lots of different ones online. They have leader's guides. All you have to do is invite some women into your home and start studying the Word of God together. 

Heidi Bolt: I would follow along with that. Get in a local church. If you're not in one... you know, attending a few times a year just doesn't cut it. If you want to lose weight and you go work out three times in one year, you're not going to lose weight. You're not going to have a healthy heart. So get in a local church, a church that is preaching God's Word, preaching truth. Even if it requires sacrifice on your part. 

We've got this young family who is driving about 30 minutes to get to our church because they so believe that God called them there. And she told me on Sunday, she said, "The last four months as we have driven, God has filled us up so, so, so much and began to work out all of these things that we've been praying for a few years. We're seeing God step in for us." [00:42:02] 

I think sometimes following Jesus does require some sacrifice on our part, and it's not always easy. But being willing to push through a little bit and to find the truth. 

Heather Toews: Heidi, can I also add to that analogy that you used about working out? Yes, if you work out three times, you're not going to lose weight, but if you continue to feed yourself junk food, you're also not going to lose weight. 

Heidi Bolt: That's right. 

Heather Toews: So at the same time as you're feeding yourself with God's Word, what are you taking out of your life that is filling you up that is junk? And it can look like lots of different things. Negativity, Netflix binging. I mean, some of the stuff that we watch these days that we find acceptable. You know, 50 years ago, our grandparents would be freaking out that we were allowing this in our homes. 

I'm not saying don't watch TV. My husband and I love to sit down and watch a show together. But what are you taking out that's putting junk into your soul? I think that's really important too. 

Heidi Bolt: That's good. [00:42:59] 

Laura Dugger: These first eight weeks have been a blast for our entire team. Our plan was to release a lot of great content these first few months and then slow down to a more sustainable pace, releasing one episode each week. I hope you look forward to Monday mornings when a new episode will be available. 

And if you're a podcast junkie like me, you may desire more than one episode per week. That's one reason we want to let you know that we're going to offer Patreon. So here's how it works. Go to thesavvysauce.com and click on our Patreon tab. There you can sign up to become a monthly contributor. 

If you contribute $2 per month, you're going to receive a free quarterly printable scripture card. For a contribution of $5 per month, you'll get the same perk and you'll get extra podcasts only available to patrons. For $20 per month, you will get all of these previously mentioned freebies and one Savvy Sauce pop socket. 

Of course, you can always make a one-time gift, and we are so appreciative of every dollar you contribute. We will keep pouring it into the business to produce great content for you now and in the future. [00:44:06] Thanks for participating. 

We love talking about practical things here, and it's tied into our name, The Savvy Sauce, because "savvy" is synonymous with practical knowledge. So as my final question to you two today, ladies, what is your savvy sauce? 

Heather Toews: [00:44:22] You know, this is something I've been thinking about recently because I think I'm going through it as a mom in my season right now, but it also applies in lots of other areas. And it is this whole letting go of control. I think so many of us, particularly as mamas, we want to control everything. We want things to fit into our idea of what they should look like. We want our schedules to be controlled. We want our children to be controlled. And when things go outside of that control, we tend to freak out, overreact, and think the world is crashing in when really it's not. Things are just a little messy because life can be a little messy. 

This is coming up... Again because I have an 11-year-old and I sent him off today for his first event that's out of state without mom or dad on a student ministry trip. And as he sat there this morning, my first reaction was pray a lot and ask the Lord to protect him. But then my second thought was, this is part of my process of learning to let go a little bit. I don't have to let go fully, he's only 11, but letting go a little bit right now so that when he's 18 and he goes away to college or God calls him to the mission field or something that I don't even know about yet that I will be that much more prepared. [00:45:45]  

And so as I was thinking about this, and I've been processing this over the last few weeks, I think that there are seasons of that for every stage. It doesn't matter if you don't have children yet, or you have littles at home, or you have middles, or you've already let all of your children go. There is this learning to let go of control, and it's this loosening of our grip so that God can take over so that you can trust Him. 

I remember a few years ago —I really don't like to fly that much, which is hilarious because we do it quite often — I was so scared and my hands were clenched and I was holding on to the seat, even though there was nothing to be worried about in that moment. There was no turbulence. It was just all in my psyche, in my head. And I remember the Holy Spirit saying, do you trust me? And I was like, "Yes, yes, I do. I trust you." And He said, "Then then act like it." [00:46:38] 

"You know, do you trust me with your life?" "Then relax your hands and enjoy this flight instead of freaking out that something's going to happen because I'm in control of your life. I have control of your life. I think it's the same with our kids. Like, God, do I trust you with my children? Okay, I'm going to let go a little bit of control. In this case, it's, you know, my son going out of state for the day. But it can be about anything. 

When we hold too tightly to something and we try to control it, we really are not trusting God and we are not letting Him lead us. 

Heidi Bolt: I would say my savvy sauce is something that we were taught from a really young age from my parents and that it's faith in Jesus. That the name of Jesus conquers everything. And it doesn't always mean the outcome is what we hope for or what we think is best. But God's always working for our good. 

You know, I remember being a really young girl and I was jumping on this little... remember those little workout trampolines that our moms would do aerobics on and they would jump and they do all this crazy stuff? And now that I'm a mom, I totally get why they were doing that. [00:47:48] 

But we had one of those and we lived in this old farmhouse and so they had the old school Radiators that were like... what were those called, Heather? 

Heather Toews: Radiators. I don't know. Steam radiators. 

Heidi Bolt: Yeah. And the water would flow through when they'd get really hot and they were rigid at the top. So I'm a little girl and I'm jumping on this trampoline and I fall off and I hit the radiator and my head splits open. I was probably four, I was wearing this little white sundress and immediately it was covered and it was red because it was so much blood. 

I remember Heather and my parents coming over and laying their hands on me and just praying, "The blood of Jesus, Jesus, heal Heidi." And that's all I remember. Then I remember that the blood, the bleeding stopped right away and I was healed. 

I know there might be people listening going, that is ridiculous. But it happened. And there were witnesses. So faith to believe that God intervenes in anything. Then also them teaching us that just the blood of Jesus, you know, if you're afraid, if you're scared, if you're worried, just ask the blood of Jesus. "Jesus." You know, say the name of Jesus and just watch Him show up, watch Him work. [00:48:58] 

On a really practical level, I've had a lot of opportunity to exercise that in the last few months and to really go, "Man, Lord, this situation is really hard. I'm doing everything air quotes "right", but we're not having breakthrough in this." So really just going, "Jesus, I trust you through this. This is not how I want this to be going, but I trust you. And that sounds kind of very Christianese, but it really is just Jesus and trusting that He is so present and that He is so intimately involved in everything that I'm walking through. So therefore trusting Him that this is a path that He's sending us down in order to help refine our hearts more towards Him. 

Laura Dugger: I love everything that you two have shared. You're just clearly both bursting with all these gifts that the Lord has put in you. Thank you for also exercising walking in faith, and letting those come out of you. I know you've blessed me and all the listeners today, so thank you for sharing. 

Heather Toews: Oh, thank you so much for having us. 

Heidi Bolt: Thanks for having us. It's been a fun conversation. [00:50:10] 

One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him.

This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.

This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. [00:51:16] 

We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 

So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen. 

If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him. 

At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started? [00:52:17] 

First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. 

Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. 

We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. 

Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. [00:53:16] 

If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.