Chris Voss has an extremely impressive resume and bio. He’s used many years of experience in international crisis and high-stakes negotiations to develop a unique program that applies globally proven techniques to the business world through his company, which is called The Black Swan Group. Prior to 2008, Chris was the lead international kidnapping negotiator for the FBI, as well as the FBI’s hostage negotiation representative for the National Security Council’s hostage working group. During his career, he’s also re...
Chris Voss has an extremely impressive resume and bio. He’s used many years of experience in international crisis and high-stakes negotiations to develop a unique program that applies globally proven techniques to the business world through his company, which is called The Black Swan Group. Prior to 2008, Chris was the lead international kidnapping negotiator for the FBI, as well as the FBI’s hostage negotiation representative for the National Security Council’s hostage working group. During his career, he’s also represented the US Government as an expert in kidnapping at two international conferences sponsored by the G8. Before becoming the FBI’s lead international kidnapping negotiator, Chris served as the lead crisis negotiator for the New York City division of the FBI, and he really was in some precarious negotiations and he talks a lot about those experiences in his wonderful book, which is called Never Split the Difference, which has sold over two million copies. Chris was a member of the New York City joint terrorist task force for fourteen years; Chris has been in the weeds, in the trenches, fighting against some of the toughest, most difficult stuff that our country has faced. During his 24-year tenure, Chris has really experienced so many different situations. He’s trained not just on the field and in the trenches, but he’s also gone to Scotland Yard and Harvard Law School so he could learn more about negotiation. He’s also been a teacher; he’s taught business negotiation in MBA programs as an adjunct professor at the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business, and at Georgetown University’s McDonough School of Business. In addition to that, he’s gone all over the world to teach as a guest lecturer from places like Harvard University to the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University, and even to places like Germany to teach what he’s learned along his journey and his experience.
In today’s conversation, Chris will talk about experiences as a negotiator, whether it’s kidnapping or whether it’s something in your business, and I even get into negotiation with my children. I think you’ll find that he’s definitely someone who’s had applied experience, there’s no question about that, but he also loves to read, he loves to listen to podcasts, he loves to learn from science and research; Chris is this amazing blend of authentic, real, street smart, coupled by a humility and a strong, strong desire to learn that I think you will connect with. I know you’re going to learn from Chris, I certainly did.
Chris had a number of amazing insights during our conversation. Some of them include:
“Nobody is going to be great at negotiation first thing in the morning” (8:30).
“Mirroring works great with kids of all ages when you’re trying to get them to talk” (8:50).
“’No’ makes people feel safe and secure” (9:20).
“People are smarter when they’re laughing and they’re having a good time” (9:45).
“Trying to get people to say ‘yes’ is a bad idea” (11:10).
“’Yes’ is nothing without ‘how’” (14:15).
“Open-ended questions are designed to create thinking, not to get an answer” (16:00).
“Helping people get better. Helping people solve their problems. Helping people accelerate their lives. [That’s what excites me].” (18:40).
“What people don’t say is as important as what they do say” (19:10).
“Sniff out the people that are trying to cut your throat, trying to exploit your interests, and walk away” (21:10).
“Best chance of success means you’re not always going to be successful” (22:30).
“When things go bad, you have two choices: you can grow, or you can quit” (22:35).
“I don’t think you really learn anything when you win” (24:20).
“You can’t read enough. You can’t learn enough. You can’t listen enough” (27:15).
“High IQ people have trouble being good negotiators” (28:40).
“Curiosity is a superpower” (29:45).
“You’re 31% smarter in a positive frame-of-mind” (29:55).
“It’s impossible to be curious and in a negative frame-of-mind at the same time” (30:05).
“Empathy is really about demonstrating understanding” (35:45).
“Empathy is not about liking or agreeing with the other side” (36:35).
“Data improves design. We execute and learn constantly” (43:10).
“Someone once asked me ‘Describe yourself in three words.” And my respond was “deeply flawed human” (45:05).
“[Listening skills] are perishable” (45:45).
“Compromise is lazy. Compromise is not collaborative” (46:55).
“Don’t let your ego get in the way of a better idea” (47:30).
“Never be mean to somebody who can hurt you by doing nothing” (58:25).
Additionally, you can purchase Chris’s book, Never Split the Difference, anywhere books are sold. You can also find the website for the Black Swan Group here, where you can find a ton of information and also sign up for a free newsletter. Lastly, you can follow Chris on Instagram as well.
Thank you so much to Chris for coming on the podcast!
I wrote a book called “Shift Your Mind” that was released in October of 2020, and you can order it on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Additionally, I have launched a company called Strong Skills, and I encourage you to check out our new website https://www.strongskills.co/. If you liked this episode and/or any others, please follow me on Twitter: @brianlevenson or Instagram: @Intentional_Performers.
Thanks for listening.
