In this latest episode, Geoff Scott, of ASUG, rejoins Mustansir Saifuddin to discuss the rapidly evolving landscape of AI within the SAP ecosystem, specifically focusing on the impact of partnerships like SAP and Microsoft's collaboration on Copilot and Joule. Listen in as we explore how these advancements will shape enterprise operations in 2025 and beyond, and why you can't afford to ignore this technological shift.to discuss what is required for businesses to be successful with Gen AI as they prepare for the future. You can also watch the video.
In this latest episode, Geoff Scott, of ASUG, rejoins Mustansir Saifuddin to discuss the rapidly evolving landscape of AI within the SAP ecosystem, specifically focusing on the impact of partnerships like SAP and Microsoft's collaboration on Copilot and Joule. Listen in as we explore how these advancements will shape enterprise operations in 2025 and beyond, and why you can't afford to ignore this technological shift.to discuss what is required for businesses to be successful with Gen AI as they prepare for the future. You can also watch the video.
Geoff Scott, is CEO and Chief Community Officer of ASUG, believes that the connections ASUG makes for our members have the potential to become career-defining relationships that inspire innovation and success for their organizations. His forward-thinking leadership prioritizes helping our members make the most of their investment in SAP technologies. To that end, Geoff works closely with customers, members, the SAP Executive Board, and the extensive partner ecosystem to amplify the voice of the SAP customer.
Past positions include CIO for TOMS Shoes, where he led the implementation of SAP: CIO at JBS; and senior leadership positions at Ford Motor Company. Before becoming CEO, Geoff was an ASUG member and served on the board. Geoff has served on several philanthropic boards and is the founding member of the Denver CIO Executive Council.
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Episode Transcript:
[00:00:00] Mustansir Saifuddin: Welcome to Tech Driven Business, brought to you by Innovative Solution Partners. I'm honored to have Jeff Scott, CEO of as a, rejoin me to discuss the rapidly evolving landscape of AI within the SAP ecosystem, specifically focusing on the impact of partnerships like SAP and Microsoft's collaboration on copilot and Joule.
[00:00:26] Mustansir Saifuddin: Listen in as we explore how these advancements will shape enterprise operations in 2025 and beyond, and why you can't afford to ignore this technological shift.
[00:00:39] Mustansir Saifuddin: Thanks for coming back on our podcast. Geoff, it was really nice to have you back. You remember, you know you came on last year and we dove into this whole
[00:00:48] Geoff Scott: Oh.
[00:00:49] Mustansir Saifuddin: gen AI topic. Everybody remembers that, you know, it was a very hot topic last year and, you know, everybody was going in that direction. Now, fast forwarding everything to this year and say, Hey, what is going on? And this year, SAP has had some major announcements, as we all know about the partnerships that we leverage the power of AI within the SAP ecosystem. And what I see with the majority of SAP clients using Microsoft in the enterprises. There is a lot of opportunity in SAP and Microsoft , you know, the whole partnership, especially around copilot and SAP Joule. I believe it'll make a big impact.
[00:01:30] Geoff Scott: I'm surprised you have me back. I was very nervous. It's a year later. I was like, okay, this is never gonna happen again. I, I disinvited myself from future podcasts.
[00:01:39] Mustansir Saifuddin: Well, I have you back
[00:01:42] Mustansir Saifuddin: on.
[00:01:43] Mustansir Saifuddin: and I am telling you that it is more exciting than what we were talking about last year, and I think this is what I want to get some thoughts on, Hey, what's going on? What's your take on how these partnerships are coming together and what are we going to see in 2025?
[00:02:01] Geoff Scott: Well, the good news is that what we see in 2025 is no apparent slowdown in any of this technology. You know, but what's interesting is we, in the SAP space,
[00:02:13] Geoff Scott: are not necessarily meeting that challenge head on, and we probably are not moving as quickly as we should to capture the amount of opportunity that's out there. I, I think AI is real. It's gonna continue to evolve at a furious pace, and that necessitates that we as technology practitioners determine how we best leverage that technology.
[00:02:36] Geoff Scott: You, you talked about Microsoft Copilot, Joule, right? I mean AWS. Bedrock , Google Gemini, you know, now we've got, other LLMs popping out all over the place. Right. , deep seek . Which just popped up very quickly. So there's just, a tremendous amount of movement here and it's really hard
[00:02:57] Geoff Scott: to stay abreast of it. And I think the opportunity to jump in and start leveraging this is mission critical and what I think it really necessitates, and you talked about some announcements from SAP that I think double or triple down on this notion that AI is here, so if you really want to take your SAP data and make it AI enabled using Joule or using any other series of tools,
[00:03:24] Geoff Scott: it's gonna necessitate that we as technology practitioners start to do some fairly radical things with our data. Number one is we start to de-customize everywhere we can and move the responsibility for code back to SAP so that they are responsible for figuring out how to make the AI work, not us.
[00:03:42] Geoff Scott: So
[00:03:42] Geoff Scott: ,
[00:03:42] Geoff Scott: how
[00:03:42] Geoff Scott: do we over time de-customize and how do we over time think about the necessity of adopting SaaS based solutions such as SAP's Public Cloud? Many of our of our community members are implementing private cloud right [00:04:00] now through Rise which is great, but ultimately if we recreate all those customizations downstream, then we have to figure out how to make them AI enabled, and I think that's where we're gonna find ourselves under continuing amounts of stress as the business innovates faster and faster.
[00:04:17] Geoff Scott: We typically in the SAP ecosystem, think about our innovations on a stair step model. And what I mean by that is we do an upgrade, we sit on that upgrade for a couple of years, as long as we possibly can. You know, and then we do an upgrade again. And the challenge I think that's gonna present is that there's so much innovation happening and, all these things are moving at such a speed that if we're not continuously innovating,
[00:04:39] Geoff Scott: we are gonna find ourselves further and further behind. I, I'd like to see our SAP data be the sole source of truth inside our enterprises and an innovation gold mine.
[00:04:49] Geoff Scott: And to do that, I think we have to de-customize. I think we have to be able to, innovate faster. I think we have to be able to look at this data, do a lot more work around archiving and getting the old stuff, swept up and moved out. Master data is gonna become a major, major opportunity for all of us.
[00:05:05] Geoff Scott: And if we do all those things really, really well. We will have a fighting chance at making our enterprises very savvy. And on top of the latest trends versus trying to perpetually catch up.
[00:05:16] Mustansir Saifuddin: It's a race, the way I look at it, and I think , you summed it up very well, and I think that leads me to my question into this whole topic of collaboration. Let's take that right now. What would you tell your SAP users about the power of Microsoft and SAP's collaboration?
[00:05:33] Mustansir Saifuddin: How will it positively impact their day-to-day operations? Let's start with that.
[00:05:38] Geoff Scott: Well, I, I think you set this up really well. We, we know from an ASUG research perspective that most SAP customers are also Microsoft customers. And that partnership has gone back almost as long as SAP and Microsoft have been in business. You know, there's some pictures I've seen of Bill Gates and Hasso Plattner, the two founders of both organizations working together early on.
[00:06:04] Geoff Scott: So this is a partnership that goes back a long, long time and it's a tremendously powerful partnership. And it indicates to me that these are organizations that work very well together, very closely together and collaborate. I mean, almost everyone I know who works in SAP also uses Excel spreadsheets, also uses PowerPoint slides,
[00:06:23] Geoff Scott: also creates Word documents. I do these almost every single day. It makes perfect sense to me that a tool such as Microsoft Copilot and SAP's Joule would be working in harmony together. And I think we're seeing some interesting innovation from both organizations where they're able to demonstrate that.
[00:06:39] Geoff Scott: I saw some really cool, rag based technologies, a few weeks ago where a copilot can reach out and grab some data from SAP and bring it back. Likewise Joule is being able to show some similar capabilities. For most customers, as much as we'd like to have one AI tool, I just don't think that that's going to be the way this works.
[00:06:58] Geoff Scott: I think we're gonna have multiple, which, which makes the enterprise architect's role that much more challenging because they're gonna have to figure out how to integrate these tools, when these tools are best used, how they're used, and how do we as as organizations, get value from them.
[00:07:15] Mustansir Saifuddin: Absolutely. And if you take this a step further, right? The hype around Agentic AI, everybody's talking about agents. What are you seeing in the marketplace? What, what is your take?
[00:07:25] Mustansir Saifuddin: How are SAP users benefitting from Agentic AI within their organizations?
[00:07:31] Geoff Scott: As it relates specifically to the SAP ecosystem, my. My perception, maybe right or wrong, probably more wrong than right, is that many of them are investigating and researching. I haven't necessarily seen any specific in production, customer running, agentic AI using SAP dot dot yet. Is it coming? [00:08:00] I think it's coming.
[00:08:01] Geoff Scott: Has everyone figured this out yet? No certainly SAP's talking about it. I saw some presentations from the AI team at SAP led by Philip Herzig where they're demonstrating a lot of this. And I think it's gonna be very interesting to watch how agentic, you know, agent-based AI starts to manage tasks.
[00:08:19] Geoff Scott: And I'm very keen to see how this works.
[00:08:24] Mustansir Saifuddin: It's still very early on in, in this space where a lot of SAP customers are thinking about using it. But
[00:08:32] Mustansir Saifuddin: how
[00:08:32] Mustansir Saifuddin: do we really find a use case that is really beneficial to the organization at least from a investment standpoint, the time standpoint , and the value add you get as a, as a result of this application basically.
[00:08:47] Geoff Scott: And I think the, the potential challenge with agentic AI is it also has to be reasonable from a, you know, a what is this agent, what is this agent's tasks? One of the things that we all know about the SAP ecosystem is we exist here because our businesses are complicated. Someone used to say to me, if, if you didn't need to run SAP, you wouldn't.
[00:09:11] Geoff Scott: Right. So you know, most of the organizations that run SAP are of a, a sufficient size and scale and complexity, whether that be that they're multiple businesses running, they have international components, the business makes a complicated product that has a lot of configuration to it, right? There's reasons why these organizations are running SAP.
[00:09:32] Geoff Scott: So that kind of then begets the next point, which is, an agent based AI. It's going to have to be fairly complicated in order to handle all of those different, particulars of a business. So I, I think it's gonna be interesting to watch how organizations slice that down to make it so that they can demonstrate some success early days without making the agents so complicated that they basically can't function.
[00:09:58] Geoff Scott: You know, even some of this agent AI we talk about that seems like really simple. Like, Hey, I want to go out to eat at a restaurant tonight. Have agentic AI make a reservation. When you break that down. How does it do that? what type of food do you want?
[00:10:13] Geoff Scott: I don't know. Maybe Italian, maybe French, maybe American. What about what time do you want to eat? How far away do you want to go? And so much of that is, is left to our brains to just on a whim, we make these decisions. How do you have that conversation with AG Agentic AI, right? Where it says, Hey, you know, here's a reservation at Italian restaurant at six 30.
[00:10:32] Geoff Scott: Nah, well, 6 45, nah. Well, what do you want? Not Italian. Well, what do you want instead? I don't know French. No. You want a burger? Nah, I don't feel like a burger tonight. I mean, oh my God. I mean, it's exhausting.
[00:10:47] Mustansir Saifuddin: Let's take a step up, right? Let's, let's talk about from SAP customers, you know. Everybody's getting on this
[00:10:55] Mustansir Saifuddin: What word of advice would you have for SAP customers when they get further into the journey with AI? Like, what are the things that they should be looking at?
[00:11:03] Geoff Scott: First and foremost, take the time to experiment, right? I mean, if you're not using these AI tools every day start. And this has taken me a little bit of time to warm up to, I'm finding now that, I have enough, road underneath my tires that it's hard for me to do new things,
[00:11:22] Geoff Scott: 'cause I'm fairly, you know, set in my ways. But if I don't, use these tools to do things, I'm just not, I'm not learning. And so I. As an example, I'm recording a podcast tomorrow with a couple of fellow ASUG board members, and last night I needed to get them some prep materials.
[00:11:40] Geoff Scott: I uploaded three or four documents into Claude and I said, please look at these three documents and I need to brief the podcast participants on what they say. And it looked at all three documents and it coughed up a pretty darn good summary.
[00:11:55] Geoff Scott: Perfect? No. Pretty good. Yes. Was it [00:12:00] easier that I didn't, I didn't have to go and look at each document and figure out what to say. I could take a look at its summarization and determine if that was something that I wanted, that I thought was accurate and something that I thought we could share. And the answer was it was pretty good.
[00:12:15] Geoff Scott: That was a great experiment. And then I said, okay, now create the podcast questions. And it did it. Now, are we using all of them? No. Did it give me at least a starting point? A hundred percent. And by the way, for the people out there was like, oh my God. He put that into, he put that into Claude. Oh my God. What about the security things? We own a subscription to Claude. So it was in a subscription. It was, it was in our protected space. It was public information. So, you know, but you gotta think about those things, right?
[00:12:42] Mustansir Saifuddin: .
[00:12:42] Mustansir Saifuddin: Absolutely. And I think the one thing that you hit upon is time to value, right? When you look at these tools, these technology aspects of how it can make things faster, better . But it brings up another point, like when, when you look at these, these use cases, everything is about data. What you feeding into the model.
[00:13:07] Mustansir Saifuddin: So, you know, from a data perspective, I know a lot of customers doesn't matter, SAP or other technologies, and especially in SAP you know, either struggle with clean governed data and kind of makes it very difficult. So what, what's your take on that in that space? You know, especially when they are ready to go to the AI
[00:13:32] Mustansir Saifuddin: journey, but they have some work to do.
[00:13:34] Geoff Scott: I think there's a tremendous amount of work to do on this, and this kind of comes back to a part of our earlier dialogue that I think that data has to be right. Right. If, if we're gonna succeed in this future AI enabled world, the data that is being accessed, from your SAP systems, whether through some sort of rag or wherever you're doing, it has to be accurate.
[00:13:57] Geoff Scott: So the archiving perspective of this has to be right. And you know also what has to be right is your ability to get master data correct. So if you have the same customer in your SAP system, this is an easy example, five times. Well, you now have increased by factors, the likelihood that the answer that pops back is wrong.
[00:14:18] Geoff Scott: So, you know, we've been talking about this for a long time, that your SAP data has to be accurate, has to be right, and SAP data is very accurate at the time that it was entered. I think this is one of the brilliant things about SAP. And where we as SAP, you know, professionals spend so much time is getting the data into the system correctly from the get go.
[00:14:41] Geoff Scott: The problem is it doesn't age so well, right? It's not like a fine wine. It can sometimes get a little stale and old and if we're not also getting it broomed out. The challenge we run into is it could be part of a , hallucination that we're not aware of. And if all of a sudden people are looking at this data and making broader based decisions on it, and the decision processes was flawed and the data's flawed, we could be making a lot of really bad decisions.
[00:15:12] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah, absolutely. Data and analytics is very near and dear to me. So I, I know that whole conversation about getting The data clean, having that value around data, right. Which drives a lot of those those results out of the tools that we
[00:15:28] Mustansir Saifuddin: want to apply. Especially.
[00:15:30] Geoff Scott: It's all gonna come down to data at the end of the day, right? The data wins and the accuracy of the data wins. And the more that we're gonna use these tools to summarize and roll up, the higher the risk that that summary is inaccurate because the data underneath it isn't right.
[00:15:49] Geoff Scott: We had this conversation in an ASUG executive exchange forum last week. And I think most people are starting to recognize that , if you have been [00:16:00] deferring your archiving routines, now might be a good time to get some of that back under control.
[00:16:07] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah,
[00:16:08] Geoff Scott: Most of the models right now, the L lms right, are based on data that doesn't, that the, you know books, fueling
[00:16:15] Geoff Scott: research reports, fueling these LLMs that that data has been around for a long time and is, and has stood the test of time. Most of our SAP data, you know, has to be thought of through a very specific lens. But I, I think it's critical, a hundred percent critical.
[00:16:33] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah. So let, so let's take it down a, a notch, right? From an ASUG perspective, how have you seen ASUG members approaching realtime data analytics moving to the cloud? I know ASUG does a lot of research on this. What have you seen? What, what do you see in this year?
[00:16:49] Geoff Scott: So I think, you know, almost everyone is having cloud conversations, which is the beginning of this, because I don't think you can innovate at scale if you're not thinking about moving into the cloud. You know, the other thing is, is that most of these solutions, if you think about the innovation curve, mostly solutions are gonna appear first in the latest additions of your software.
[00:17:08] Geoff Scott: So if you can't start innovating at a faster and faster cycle, move out of the stair step you and I discussed earlier, moving to a constant innovation framework, you're gonna find yourself further and further behind because if you want to take advantage of innovation at scale at the time it's released or near to the time it's released you need to be on the latest versions of software.
[00:17:27] Geoff Scott: The hard reality of most of our ecosystem is we are not. And if we are not, that's where this stuff is gonna appear first. Will it make it down to other versions of the software? Yes. Is it gonna be on SAP's first order priority to do that? No. They're gonna want to make sure where they get it out
[00:17:44] Geoff Scott: to market fast and they're gonna look at their latest versions of the software to do that, where they're the most comfortable. You know, there's this question, why can't I run AI in my on-prem data center? Well, you could, but you're gonna have to do all of that lift by yourself. And that becomes a very costly exercise that unless you're the bigs of the bigs, is probably outside of your budget to do that.
[00:18:08] Geoff Scott: So if you want to do this with some degree of economy, you have to be in the cloud, you have to de-customize. You have to think about your SAP implementation as a SaaS service, push accountability and responsibility for code and business process back to SAP, right? I mean, I, I think that, you know, what has AI told me, loud and clear at a volume level of 11?
[00:18:30] Geoff Scott: We as SAP customers now more than ever, need to stop customizing and moving responsibility for code back to SAP, 'cause if we don't, we are never gonna be able to keep up. .In, in addition to that, that many of us over these years have outsourced our application maintenance services. We rely on consultants to do most of the work we need done, right, so we're not even in control of the productive resources necessary to make this stuff a reality.
[00:19:05] Geoff Scott: We are project managers. We are business analysts, right? We don't necessarily know how to write code to do this, and if we're gonna have to rely on outside resources every time we make one of these moves, that's gonna be super costly and super slow.
[00:19:22] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah. I hear you.
[00:19:23] Mustansir Saifuddin: and I know the ASUG community hears that
[00:19:26] Geoff Scott: But we have a lot in our ASUG community, right, who have been around for a long time that says, well, you know, my job is an ABAP programmer. What do you want me to do next? Or I'm a basis person and I don't like this. And I'm like, you are some of the people that are in , the best position to retool and relearn.
[00:19:42] Geoff Scott: We're all gonna have to relearn. And, you know, is your business's, joy in life to have you produce more ABAP code or figure out how to get that ABAP code out, move it to SAP and say, congratulations, SAP, you're now responsible for this. Here's what I need this business process to do. Right. [00:20:00] And using your, using ASUG to help you influence that business process, instead of you saying, well, I'm gonna just take it and twist it to my own needs.
[00:20:08] Geoff Scott: Even with me saying that, I still think that there's a lot of distance that SAP has to travel, by the way, I don't think they have this figured out. I don't think that they'll look at this and they go, yep, we got this. You just, you know, trust us. No, I think in certain areas they have this well done.
[00:20:23] Geoff Scott: In other areas they do not. So what's the best thing we can do? Help them get there faster, influence them, participate in your ASUG chapter meetings, have a voice, talk about where you're hitting challenges. How do we need SAP to make better business processes? How are we gonna use the, you know, the tools that they have, like Lean IX and Signavio to help drive some of this?
[00:20:48] Geoff Scott: That's to me where this is gonna need to happen. I would much prefer to have SAP struggle to keep up with business process than have. 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 customers do it on their own. It doesn't scale.
[00:21:03] Mustansir Saifuddin: No, it doesn't. And I think, and that's a fair point, right? And this is where the value of ASUG comes in. And, and I mean the journey is long, but the, the path is there for us to follow.
[00:21:14] Geoff Scott: I, I, yeah.
[00:21:14] Mustansir Saifuddin: Right. And that's the,
[00:21:15] Geoff Scott: I think the journey is long and the journey is more important than ever. It's time to get off the couch and go out and start walking, and then when you can walk, you can run, then, you know, then you can sprint. And I think , that's kind of the, the message that we're giving as ASUG is this isn't gonna slow down for you, you're gonna have to catch up to it.
[00:21:32] Mustansir Saifuddin: No, I think, and that's the message. A lot of people are hearing loud and clear now, especially 2025 has brought in that that whole concept of either you go along with it or you're gonna be left behind.
[00:21:44] Geoff Scott: Or, or, or at some point you're going to have to catch up, and the question is, is how much lifting are you gonna have to do to get there? I, again, I don't think this is easy. I, I don't think that there's , a magic pill we can swallow, you know, that that cleans us all up and we're all perfect.
[00:22:01] Mustansir Saifuddin: No. No, for sure. And I think I, I know we talked about a lot of things today and we can keep on talking and the journey keeps on you know, is it's a
[00:22:11] Geoff Scott: It's journey.
[00:22:11] Mustansir Saifuddin: it's,
[00:22:12] Geoff Scott: Yeah.
[00:22:12] Mustansir Saifuddin: ending, but what, what is the one key takeaway that you want to leave with the listeners
[00:22:18] Geoff Scott: One key takeaway
[00:22:18] Mustansir Saifuddin: as we wrap up?
[00:22:19] Geoff Scott: it.
[00:22:20] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yep.
[00:22:21] Geoff Scott: Spend time experimenting and learning this stuff. Get comfortable being uncomfortable with these tools. Use them. Think about how your business can benefit from them. Spend some time, you know, in BTP learning how to access these LLMs through your BTP interface. If you're having a challenge getting a business case written to move from your ECC environment to S 4.
[00:22:46] Geoff Scott: Talk to us at ASUG, we will help you with that. Go to a chapter meeting and ask others how they made that investment work. Spend some time, you know, if you don't have a, a license for copilot where you and I started this afternoon, ask your IT counterparts to have access to copilot, use it.
[00:23:04] Ask it questions, engage in iterative rep iterative prompts. These are things I think the, the faster we get comfortable with these technologies, the better off we as technologists will have light bulbs go off and say, oh, I, now I get how I can really put agent AI to work. Right. And I'm not gonna listen to just, you know, Microsoft, you know, talk about it or SAP talk about it.
[00:23:24] Geoff Scott: I actually have some ideas. And these are good ideas and I'm excited, I'm excited to share 'em. Get out of the stands and on the field.
[00:23:32] Mustansir Saifuddin: And who better do it? I mean, I think I, I love , your closing, right? Especially when you are looking at your own business, your own technology, and your way of doing things. Who better can come up with , a solution , or see the applications of these co-pilot Gemini, no matter what I mean, type of tools you can use.
[00:23:51] Mustansir Saifuddin: But these are , the ways you can innovate, right by looking at the processes.
[00:23:56] Geoff Scott: Yes. Someone told me that they set up two agentic AI bots [00:24:00] and the two of them constructed a podcast and it was pretty good. So withstand zero. I'm worried that next time you and I meet, it's not gonna be you or I, it's gonna be our agentic AI counterparts, some version of us.
[00:24:14] Mustansir Saifuddin: and yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I think it is here. It's going to be here at some point, so might as well embrace it.
[00:24:22] Geoff Scott: Yeah. Absolutely.
[00:24:23] Mustansir Saifuddin: Thanks for listening to Tech-Driven Business brought to you by Innovative Solution Partners. Embracing innovation is no longer an option, but really a necessity for enterprise success. Geoff's key takeaway? Proactive experimentation with AI is crucial for SAP users to discover its business benefits.
Engage with tools like copilot and Joule, participate in ASUG, and push for cloud migration to stay ahead of the rapid technological changes. We would love to hear from you. Continue the conversation by connecting with me on LinkedIn or x. Learn more about Innovative Solution Partners and schedule a free consultation by visiting isolutionpartners.com.
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