Remote work is here to stay long after the masks are gone along with the pandemic associated with it. In this episode Daniel and Pouya discuss the pros and cons of remote work as a permanent option for both employees and employers and offer their thoughts on how the process could be streamlined and made more productive.
Episode Transcript...
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
remote, home, industry, environment, employers, work, employees, literally, upper body, pandemic, online, office, hear, lead, certain industries, necessarily, mentioned, throughput, point, programmer
SPEAKERS
Pouya LJ, Dan
Pouya LJ 00:08
Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of BTP podcast joined as always with Daniel Mulligan, how's it going, buddy? And my buddy
Dan 00:15
has one, how are you guess what it is the last day of the holiday for everyone, including those living in basically predominantly orthodox regions like Eastern Europe, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, and so many other countries, although I'm not sure if those those guys are Christians to ultimately, it's the end of all holidays. So if right now, you are not planning for some you know, going to work, chances are you're unemployed, because the pandemic, and therefore I'm really, really sorry to hear that.
Pouya LJ 00:43
That's true. That is a sad, sad reality of their current situation. And speaking of work, that's actually what we're going to talk about, but not just work, the future of work, which is, is the remote the future of work? Is that that's the main question. We were trying to ask him broadly, like, do you want to give your broad opinion? And then we delve into details after that?
Dan 01:03
Awesome very well, well, first of all, I do believe that the future of work is indeed remote. And the answer is very simple, because now we are already doing it at much lower costs. And then you have the governments who are going to incentivize this whole thing to protect the environment. So if you're an employer, you say, Well, I don't have to pay for the office buildings, or I can pay less, I can, I can hire fewer people. So I can actually pay for a smaller office hire fewer on site, and at the same time, the government is going to incentivize me to pay less in taxes. So why the heck not, let's try to do that actually, unless go for remote work. For that reason, I do believe that, ultimately, remote work is the future of the work, because it will be financially, basically practical. And at the same time, it is also going to lead to a better, you know, in revenue protection, which is definitely going to be important for most governments. So if the government's are going to lead people towards that direction, obviously, that will be the direction because nowadays, it's quite acceptable. I mean, if you remember, 510 20 years ago, this whole thing didn't even make sense, right? You you prove you did work, when you read the office, or you're the client, or if you wanted to set up a meeting on Skype or call, it oftentimes was a preparatory kind of meeting. So they actually set the real meeting later on meet the client in person, because it was kind of like, like a low value kind of behavior, if you did not want to show up like what there's something wrong with you want to steal my money or something or use like something cheating. So for that reason, the fact that this is now a complete norm, we are going to see a major increase in remote work, because now almost all companies around the world have tried it, they have gotten results out of it. And it's now officially a part of the culture, I guess. And for that reason, I believe it is going to be indeed the future of basically work for most of us.
Pouya LJ 02:53
No, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And I think there was a taboo prior to the pandemic about this remote work from all sides, not just employers with employees to thinking that you know what, it's not it's, I'm going to lose productivity. And that might have been true without prior proper preparation. And maybe in the beginning, people were thinking, yeah, this is not working, I'm working from a bit bed, and this is not. And then after they saw that, okay, they have to figure something out, set up the proper, you know, proper environment for themselves to work, maybe, I don't know, if a person who has kids now, that's annoying, because maybe that, you know, schools are closed, and you have to keep the kids to yourself, but if the environment is viable, I think personally, I experienced in many fields, it actually works out pretty great. Now I do teaching too. Now, that is not the best environment for online teaching. There's a there's, there's some degree to some barriers coming on, because of the lack of, you know, being in the same room physically together, perhaps, but generally speaking, in many of the cases, it does work, and perhaps there can be, you know, a hybrid of these two, okay.
Dan 03:59
That's the best I mean, because I really still believe if you make everyone work remotely, because I know a fair share of like programmers among my contacts. And I mean, their lifestyle is not necessarily going to be even acceptable by a lot of people who are more on the extroverted side, because it can be almost depressing. So I think a hybrid approach is probably a far better approach. Because in that situation, you kind of like spend, I don't know, two or three days at the office, and four days at home, and that way, of course, including the weekends, and that probably is going to be far more effective. Because you mentioned you know, working basically, and you're on your bed, well, there are a lot of things I want to do on my bed working is not one of them. Because I think I don't know, first of all, it's going to be very hygiene because you should probably see my bed. And secondly, it's going to lead to you know, from my point of view now, lack of focus because for me, the bad is a place where I do only one of two things and there's no other I mean like mentally that is there's an association basically with sleeping And the other type of sleeping, but so if you're, let's say, I don't know, bring your laptop and you're talking in a place that you bang your wife or girlfriend, I don't know, for me personally, that's not going to work out pretty well. Because it's going to create a lot of problems in terms of, you know, your mental Association. However, I do like the idea of working basically at home, if you create and designate a home office area, and if your home is small, it can, you know, allocate one entire room to your work, you can still assign a specific location in your home to, you know, basically work office, because there really is a psychological factor here. Because when you go to the office, you know, your brain has linked that environment to work. So your body is different, you know, acting differently, your mind and your focus is focused on different things and if you are in your bedroom, so even for those who work at home, they're definitely going to actually learn to come up with new ways to get ready to work at home efficiently. And I think that will then lead to creating a whole new industry that basically caters to you know, work at home and remote work, plus a lot of the training required for the staff to know how to make the most of their time at home, how to avoid distractions, and now is for someone reading a book called and distractible. And it talks about how, you know all the little steps required to make, you know, homework efficient. It's not that easy projects to work at home efficient, because it's so much easier to get distracted at home. And more apparently, there's less degree of basically control by the employers. Because you could say like, yeah, I'm online, I'm working. But you're not. I mean, as I've talked to a lot of my friends who have kids, and now almost all of them are sitting online. And I mean, you got to see what the mess that thing is man, like literally just keep things online. They pretend they're online, but they're not. Or they're looking at a screen with the camera and playing fortnight in the background. True story. By the way, I'm not just one of my, you know, friends, son just does this. But of course, if you are the teacher of that person, don't don't hate him. He's not the only one who's playing fortnight while looking at the webcam pretty like, Oh, yeah, great lesson. So for that reason, I believe there's going to be the need for a reform in the way we approach work, and extensive training and education for those who would like to work at home, both for the employers and the employees.
Pouya LJ 07:19
Really, what you're saying makes a lot of sense. Because yes, there are, you know, workarounds that you can start slacking and still not get penalized, perhaps, but then you can, you know, change how you're looking at. So for example, in a current situation, you're just, if, as a manager, office manager, whatever your method of you know, finding out if your employee is actually working or not, is just by looking at them. Maybe that's not the best approach anyways, because a lot of people don't respond to that. So maybe you want to look at their throughput, are they actually providing like doing the things that they're supposed to do? Maybe Miss metrically? Or, or just generally speaking? That's why perhaps in you know, software environment, like software development, it is much easier to actually assess these things. Because at the end of the day, you either push your code or you don't, you have to complete your project or you don't so it's so much easier to, you know, monitor those performances, wherever you are, you can be in Bahamas, I don't give a crap. As long as you do your work. Right. You know, so So yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think it's very industry dependent, perhaps hospitalities is not the best to be remote. That's the by nature, right? So
Dan 08:25
well, believe it or not, nowadays, we have seen almost all sorts of businesses going online. Sure, right. Having a much stronger online presence, even license. Nowadays, I've heard of like restaurants that are fully conducting things online, like you literally see the shift, so they send you the food, and then you'll log in with zoom, and you'll watch the chef cook things in front of you explaining things. So I mean, this is definitely going to affect even the kind of industry thought is almost impossible for it to be remote. But obviously, you're right, there are certain industries where that cannot necessarily work out well. But having, you know, experienced almost every business, pretty much move online or at least enhanced their online presence. I guess there's going to be a far more potential for remote work in almost all industries. To a certain degree, of course.
Pouya LJ 09:14
Yeah. And I couldn't agree more. And yes, my my point is that yes, some some, some industries are more acceptance and actually encouraging of remote work some less so. But it doesn't mean that they cannot look to industries that are less inclined to do remote work are not even possible for them. It doesn't mean that they cannot enhance their abilities. So for example, when even you went to the restaurant individually, like in person, you wouldn't get to see the chef necessarily some of them have open concept kitchens, but generally speaking, you wouldn't, right. So. So maybe that could be even for in person like that zoom or, you know, video stream can be on your table as well so you can anticipate your freaking food and get more hungry and hungrier.
Dan 09:57
That's possible to sell things I guess. Right, so
Pouya LJ 10:01
so I think it sparked a big, big, the whole, you know, pandemic and because circumstance sparked a big push for creativity in all of this, and which is a good thing, that's, that's the positive that can come out of all of this negative, I suppose. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.
Dan 10:17
I agree completely. Although let's be honest, personally, as an extrovert, who really loves going out, I really prefer, you know, a hybrid approach as you put it out yourself, because you cannot necessarily, from my point of view, go go on the either extremes, because if all work move fully online and fully remote, then yeah, this might literally change the way we approach work. And this could lead to its own problems. I mean, for example, now, social media is, you know, pretty much commonplace, everybody's on some sort of, you know, social media platform. And it is now the norm. So if you don't have a social media account, now you're a weirdo, like, 10 years ago, if you didn't have I don't know, Facebook, or Twitter, I don't know, let's say Instagram, or I don't know, something like that, you would have been quite okay. I mean, that was not like a necessity. So 10 years ago, many of my friends did not have I, myself was not basically on any Facebook platform 10 years ago. But nowadays, if someone is not on social media, you're like, dude, either you are weird, or you're cheating on somebody, and you don't want them to know about it. Like, it's just so like now a part of life. But at the same time, it's now proven that the more time we spend social media to higher our chances of you know, suffering from depression. So with every change comes a certain downturns and drawbacks that we have to deal with remote work has its own set of problems, it's going to challenge their problems to the employers, how are they going to be able to, you know, observe their employees in action? And how are they going to be able to judge and assess their performance to be able to, you know, handle this is just a result of deliver? How about in terms of safety and security, if you're working remotely, could this not easily be hacked, and then be used by others. There are many other, you know, facets when it comes to business and work in this situation that has to be literally addressed, which as I mentioned earlier, will lead to a whole new industry that offers services that, you know, somehow makes this whole process easier. And above all, as I mentioned earlier, it's really about us, are we the kind of basically workers who can actually work with discipline and regularity at home, or as you put it out, you're on your bed, and you're a programmer, and you start programming, and then the bag, you know, this whole bed reminds you of your last night and you start thinking like, that was very nice, and you look around and your wife lets her eyes and boom, before you know it, you're not you know, you're not making any basically coats, you're making babies. And that's not a good idea, because you're wanting to be working at that time, and not doing something weird. So for that reason, although not not not that we do not have cases of making babies at the office environment, as unfortunately, you've probably heard a lot, especially among the Wall Street staff members. But the point is you want basically to create the right education available for those who can actually work efficiently because my biggest issue with remote work is does it really deliver the same time? Yes, it saves on costs. Yes, it's a you know, protects our environment. But does it really deliver the same type of experience for both the clients and those who do the work? Or does it reduce the quality? And that for me is a big challenge.
Pouya LJ 13:21
That's a fair point. I think I think you're right on obviously, you want to have the same throughput you want their employer employees to you know, work as well. Maybe even better, perhaps if you can, but yes, you're absolutely right, that comes with a degree of education on both parts from the employers to employees all parties included even clients perhaps so that education doesn't have to be classroom setting necessarily, although it can be but culturally you know, as time passes, we learn how for example, if you're, if you don't have a good microphone and get a good headset for it, for instance, I mean, that could be one simple thing so we don't have to hear the sirens in the background whatever so I mean obviously there are you know, improvements that are going to be made in time and we can accelerate that by you know, organized education of some sorts from I'm right
Dan 14:06
now thinking about like changing fashion industry of those upper body only suits where you can literally wear your hands for anything and have like a suit like you're going to see like major changes like just imagine like the upper body only section like if you want to buy the clothes we haven't offered by the only for remote workers like literally and like they create this pajamas that are very comfy down below and like you will see a major shift in terms of how it affects every facet of and you know, every industry
Pouya LJ 14:34
I haven't been in by the way a pursuit only.
Dan 14:38
I mean, by the way, that's that's the patent idea. So if you want to steal the idea from us, you're gonna have to pay copyright. This is now any any any basically seller who would like to sell upper body only clothing must get a patent and recommendation basically from sorry guys just the way it is.
Pouya LJ 14:54
That's just the way this you know, intellectual property. It's not
Dan 14:58
It's not an upper body. Only suits and clothing, basically, work is for work is definitely a beyond the present podcast patent from now on.
Pouya LJ 15:08
No doubt, no doubt. No. But joking aside, I think I think you're absolutely right. It does make it does affect every single industry in the, in various different ways. Obviously some industries more so than others. But generally so for example, as you were mentioning, perhaps security could be more challenging because now you're, although we were always working on computers and networks, and they were all connected to the internet, but now you're transmitting everything through the internet. So maybe it's a little bit more challenging in that sense, maybe a lot more challenging, actually. So yes, of course, it's gonna affect everything. And perhaps in many cases, for the better, like, we have to improve our ways of living. And usually, it is hard to leave the status quo until you're really pushed out of it. We were, unfortunately by satins. And And typically, they are by sad incidences, so I don't I don't disagree with you. Now we discuss the pros and cons. However, now I want, we're coming to the end of the show, obviously, feel free to add anything that we didn't talk about, to, you know, gather everything together?
Dan 16:11
Well, first of all, it was a great topic about remote work, because ultimately, we've mentioned to our listeners, that remote work is the future of work, we should not look at this as a passing trend, I will that remote work is here to stay as is already demonstrated by many companies in Silicon Valley, who have already put this as a permanent part of their, basically human resource management. So they are definitely gonna implement this already as their permanent solutions. And of course, we're gonna see this happening all across the board. However, as you mentioned, yourself, certain industries are less compatible, certain types of careers, jobs services, basically are less compatible with remote work than the you know, certain ones that are a lot more basically compatible. But that doesn't mean that no industry is going to be spared from this trend, it is going to happen all across the board, basically. And we pointed out that the fact that this is going to happen, we are going to need basically a whole new industry, that is going to cater to remote work, offering certain types of, for example, home, basically work environments, how to create like a desk, that is not going to distract you at work. So maybe creating new ways of locking the sound for coming to the you know, the home office, or a lot of training to make sure that you know, the those who are working at home are doing so basically not on their bed, but hopefully in a place that is a lot more productive, basically, and to create that, you know, a culture of productivity at home, which probably needs additional training. But then again, in terms of the benefits of this, obviously, we're going to have, we're going to see a tremendous decline in traffic worldwide, which is then going to of course, reduce the carbon emission because the less commute we do, the less carbon emission we uncovered in our carbon footprint we will leave behind. So that's going to definitely improve the overall quality of basically our environment. And obviously, there's, there's definitely gonna be a lot of financial incentives to for both employers and employees. So whether we like it or not, I'm someone who's in the middle when it comes to remote work. I don't hate it. I don't love it in particular, either. But then again, even if you're like me, and you tend to be more on the social extroverted side, and you'd like to see a lot of people around, obviously, you still have to get used to this, you know, new way a new approach to work, because in the end, remote work is here to stay whether you like it or not.
Pouya LJ 18:37
Well said and I couldn't agree more, I think, one way or another, we're gonna see this more and more in the future, and perhaps sort of better. Again, I really do believe that. And thank you again, Dan, for joining us today. discuss this topic. And thank you. Yeah, it was amazing. And thank you everybody for listening in tuning in. And leave your comments. Leave your suggestions if you have any, and until later episode. Have a good one.
