Caroline Farrow is back with us as we discuss our way through the big stories this week in the news and across the media. Expect free thinking, free speech and plenty of opinion as Caroline let's us know what she really thinks about the topics this episode including.....- Migrants could be housed on old ferries as the government ends hotel stays.- Unelected PM Rishi Sunak bans media from Conservatives’ conference.- Hey Waterstones... stop pushing dangerous gender ideology at c...
Caroline Farrow is back with us as we discuss our way through the big stories this week in the news and across the media.
Expect free thinking, free speech and plenty of opinion as Caroline let's us know what she really thinks about the topics this episode including.....
- Migrants could be housed on old ferries as the government ends hotel stays.
- Unelected PM Rishi Sunak bans media from Conservatives’ conference.
- Hey Waterstones... stop pushing dangerous gender ideology at children!
- #LetWomenSpeak: New Zealand tour explodes into violence as hard left men's rights activists show the world exactly who they are.
- Violent male paedophile moved to Washington women’s prison.
- Uproar as Kent Police is slammed for poster classifying rapes as non-emergency crimes.
- Watershed moment in the trans debate, sparked by the landmark decision about female athletes.
- Humza Yousaf commits to introducing abortion up to birth and sex-selective abortion in Scotland if he becomes the next First Minister.
* CitizenGo Waterstones Petition https://citizengo.org/en-gb/fm/210382-waterstones-stop-pushing-dangerous-gender-ideology-children
In 2010, frustrated by many of the media headlines and negative coverage of Catholicism, Caroline began a blog in defence of Catholic teaching and to reflect on UK current affairs and world events through the lens of a Catholic woman. What began as nothing more than personal musings designed to explain and propose controversial ethics and life issues to those who had struggled with them, or to de-bunk misleading narratives and headlines, soon mushroomed and popular posts would receive more than 30,000 unique visitors a day. Between 2011 and 2017, she was a member of the organisation Catholic Voices, set up to promote the defence of Catholic teaching in the public square and made numerous media interventions on their behalf and quickly became the 'go to' voice for media organisations looking to represent a female conservative Catholic point of view. Since 2013 Caroline has writes a weekly column for the Catholic Universe and has written for and featured in a number of other publications such as the Catholic Herald, the National Catholic Register, the Conservative Woman, Mercatornet, Crisis Magazine, LifeSiteNews and Church Militant. She used to write on Catholic culture at the now defunct Spectator Arts blog and has been featured in the Daily Mail, the Observer and the New Statesman. In 2013, Caroline was included as part of the first cohort of the BBC's '100 women' and she regularly features on BBC News, Sky News, ITV's Good Morning Britain, BBC Sunday Morning Live, the Big Questions and has made multiple appearances on Radio 4's flagship Today programme, Woman's Hour, the Moral Maze and the Sunday programme as well as featuring in one-off documentaries. Caroline also presented the coverage for March for Life UK for EWTN and has contributed to News Nightly and Celtic Connections. She also frequently contributes to Talk Radio, LBC and BBC local radio as well as BBC Radio Ulster, discussing matters pertaining to Catholicism, feminism and the challenges of motherhood and family life. Caroline has an eclectic career background. She began her professional life as a student accountant for a big 5 firm before succumbing to a desire for travel and adventure and became a member of cabin crew working both long and short-haul routes for internationally acclaimed airlines. Having got the travel bug out of her system, she returned to work within investment banking and private equity in the City of London until her first child was born. Caroline is currently the campaign director at CitizenGO, has 5 children of school-age, four girls and one boy and is married to a Catholic priest who converted from Anglicanism, a few years after they were married.
Follow and support Caroline at the following links...
GETTR: https://gettr.com/user/cf_farrow
Twitter: https://twitter.com/CF_Farrow?s=20&t=Je-7QgQaAve5NCKtELcYNg
Website: https://www.carolinefarrow.net
CitizenGo: https://citizengo.org
Originally broadcast live 25.3.23
*Special thanks to Bosch Fawstin for recording our intro/outro on this podcast.
Check out his art https://theboschfawstinstore.blogspot.com/ and follow him on GETTR https://gettr.com/user/BoschFawstin
To sign up for our weekly email, find our social media, podcasts, video, livestreaming platforms and more
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Links to stories discussed.....
Migrants
https://web.archive.org/web/20230325135434/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/24/migrants-could-housed-old-ferries-rishi-sunak-ends-hotel-stays/
Rishi Sunak
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/24/rishi-sunak-bans-media-conservative-spring-conference
Waterstones
https://citizengo.org/en-gb/fm/210382-waterstones-stop-pushing-dangerous-gender-ideology-children
Kellie-Jay Keen
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11901005/UK-trans-critic-Kellie-Jay-Keen-doused-tomato-juice-protestors-Auckland-New-Zealand-rally.html
Posie Parker
https://twitter.com/salltweets/status/1639480137833140225?s=20
Women’s Prison
https://reduxx.info/the-worst-one-yet-violent-male-pedophile-moved-to-washington-womens-prison/
victim legal fees
https://twitter.com/Glinner/status/1639606190769422336?s=20
Kent Police
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11888161/Kent-Police-slammed-poster-classifying-sexual-assaults-non-emergency-crimes.html
gender war
https://web.archive.org/web/20230325120043/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/25/week-tide-turned-gender-war/
Yousaf
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/humza-yousaf-commits-to-introducing-abortion-up-to-birth-and-sex-selective-abortion-to-scotland
[0:22] So without further ado, Caroline, thank you so much for coming back with us tonight.
Always a pleasure, always a pleasure, Peter.
Always good to have you. And we are not short of stories, as always.
Let, actually, let me, let me just see if I can pull in.
Do let me know where you're watching. I'll have the, certainly the GETTR page open for your comments in there.
So do let us know where you're watching we'll get to see the international flavour of fuel jumping on. So let's start with the UK and we'll start with immigration. Very hot subject. The title here from the Telegraph is migrants could be housed on old ferries as Rishi Sunak ends hotel stays. People who arrive illegally on small boats will initially be moved into decent but rudimentary accommodation, government said to announce.
[1:22] And there was one figure here, Rishi Sunak expected to declare as early as next week, the beginning of the end of asylum hotels which are currently being used to house more than 50,000 migrants at a cost of nearly seven million pounds a day. What are your thoughts on this story that those who come over illegally could be put on boats?
It just shows what a shambolic mess our, immigration system is in. I think it's appalling actually. I mean in some ways I'm sure
[1:58] many people would say well it's a deterrent, it will make only those who really have no other choice than to come here, it will make people who are perhaps what they call economic migrants think twice, but it is clearly inhumane, you know, putting people on boats, you know, to live.
And it just shows that we really need to have a rethink of our immigration policy, because clearly, the reason that they're going to, well, I say clearly, the reason that this policy has been mooted is because at the moment we're spending £7 million a day housing asylum seekers or refugees. And again, I want to be really careful because when we're talking about these groups of people, we are talking about human beings who do have human rights, who do have human dignity.
You know these are these are people wanting to come to Britain to make a better life and I'm not going to slam anybody for wanting to to go to a country to seek a better life for themselves you know that that is you know an inherent an intrinsic human right but equally countries do have the rights to police their borders but we must make sure that we do it justly and fairly. Now if we've got so many people coming to this country that we cannot physically house them, that we have to put them on boats, then we need to have a balanced and grown-up discussion about immigration.
[3:27] What our immigration policy should be. We can't clearly just say let's have open borders. It'd be lovely, wouldn't it? It'd be lovely to say everybody who wants to come here can come here and you're guaranteed a welcome and the British people are very tolerant and very hospitable, all of those things are true. It'd be lovely if we could do that, but we are a smallish island, and our infrastructure is already creaking at the seams. So whenever you talk about immigration and whenever you talk about people coming here on boats or people making their way illegally, and you express some concern, you get tarred as a racist or far-right bigot or compared to Hitler's Germany is the latest slur, but there is an issue here. When we have got people that we just don't have, we are spending seven million a day at a time when we are so overstretched economically, when our infrastructure is in chaos, and then we're saying, okay, well, we can't,
[4:24] housing people in hotels is not sustainable at seven million a day, just, you know, either in terms of the cost or in terms of how much room we have, so we've got to, you know, put them on boats, then we we need to have some serious policy about numbers, who we can accommodate you know and have and have a procedure for allowing those people who can come here.
Who have a legitimate reason to be here, who have ties with this country, and who want to build a new life for themselves and work. We need to facilitate that, but equally
[4:58] we can't, much as it would be great to allow every single person to come in, we don't have the infrastructure to do that. And shoving people on boats, I think, is a cruel and inhumane policy. You wouldn't like to live on a boat. We're warned of the dangers of not dehumanising people, but actually when you start putting people on boats or in army barracks, that's exactly what it does. It treats people, not as people, but as a number and a problem. That's not a humane, and I'm a Christian obviously, and that's not a Christian way of dealing with it. So it's a very fraught issue but we need some sensible grown-ups to the table and I think both sides could do with dialling down the rhetoric. So expressing concern about this and saying, you know, okay, what are the numbers we can accommodate? It's not racist.
[5:57] Equally, and it's not Nazi Germany either, but equally on the other side of the coin, being really really harsh and firm and calling people names and attacking people isn't the answer either and you know and I do think we we do have to do something to stop people from coming over on these inflatable dinghies and risking their lives you know and it's not good it's not good for political cohesion because it is you know we've seen riots outside hotels which is which is terrible which is not what we want to see and we don't condone you know and And the reason, certainly nobody can condone that, and it must be awful for those people who are inside the hotels when they are subject to those protests, you know, you've got to remember that there are human beings involved.
But this is because of the resentment that is building, being built up by these policies, because I think I was reading in the Telegraph, the Red Wall constituencies up north, they are having like 16 times the amount of asylum seekers or refugees that are being housed in the South and the South East.
And the other point I want to make, I mean this is a very personal one,
[7:14] I'm very open about the fact that my two youngest children have special needs and right now we need to get primary school places for our children and they've been turned down from six local primary schools because there are no places because they're being taken up by Ukrainian children. Now I don't resent Ukrainian children a school place at all and one might argue, well, Caroline, you're middle class, you're educated, you know, it's not as important for your children to have a place as it is the Ukrainian children. And I might agree with you, I might not, but at the end of the day, not everybody's going to have that attitude and be in a position where they think, okay, I'm going to see what I can do to cobble together an education at home.
But equally, what it means is you're having to put one child over another, you're having to prioritise children for school places.
We've got a crisis in the NHS and there's a crisis in dentistry, so you're having to prioritise one person's need over another.
[8:23] So we can't just continue to say, OK, everybody who wants to come here should be able to come here and that's fine, without, you know, some serious thought to the question.
[1:58] many people would say well it's a deterrent, it will make only those who really have no other choice than to come here, it will make people who are perhaps what they call economic migrants think twice, but it is clearly inhumane, you know, putting people on boats, you know, to live.
And it just shows that we really need to have a rethink of our immigration policy, because clearly, the reason that they're going to, well, I say clearly, the reason that this policy has been mooted is because at the moment we're spending £7 million a day housing asylum seekers or refugees. And again, I want to be really careful because when we're talking about these groups of people, we are talking about human beings who do have human rights, who do have human dignity.
You know these are these are people wanting to come to Britain to make a better life and I'm not going to slam anybody for wanting to to go to a country to seek a better life for themselves you know that that is you know an inherent an intrinsic human right but equally countries do have the rights to police their borders but we must make sure that we do it justly and fairly. Now if we've got so many people coming to this country that we cannot physically house them, that we have to put them on boats, then we need to have a balanced and grown-up discussion about immigration.
[3:27] What our immigration policy should be. We can't clearly just say let's have open borders. It'd be lovely, wouldn't it? It'd be lovely to say everybody who wants to come here can come here and you're guaranteed a welcome and the British people are very tolerant and very hospitable, all of those things are true. It'd be lovely if we could do that, but we are a smallish island, and our infrastructure is already creaking at the seams. So whenever you talk about immigration and whenever you talk about people coming here on boats or people making their way illegally, and you express some concern, you get tarred as a racist or far-right bigot or compared to Hitler's Germany is the latest slur, but there is an issue here. When we have got people that we just don't have, we are spending seven million a day at a time when we are so overstretched economically, when our infrastructure is in chaos, and then we're saying, okay, well, we can't,
[4:24] housing people in hotels is not sustainable at seven million a day, just, you know, either in terms of the cost or in terms of how much room we have, so we've got to, you know, put them on boats, then we we need to have some serious policy about numbers, who we can accommodate you know and have and have a procedure for allowing those people who can come here.
Who have a legitimate reason to be here, who have ties with this country, and who want to build a new life for themselves and work. We need to facilitate that, but equally
[4:58] we can't, much as it would be great to allow every single person to come in, we don't have the infrastructure to do that. And shoving people on boats, I think, is a cruel and inhumane policy. You wouldn't like to live on a boat. We're warned of the dangers of not dehumanising people, but actually when you start putting people on boats or in army barracks, that's exactly what it does. It treats people, not as people, but as a number and a problem. That's not a humane, and I'm a Christian obviously, and that's not a Christian way of dealing with it. So it's a very fraught issue but we need some sensible grown-ups to the table and I think both sides could do with dialling down the rhetoric. So expressing concern about this and saying, you know, okay, what are the numbers we can accommodate? It's not racist.
[5:57] Equally, and it's not Nazi Germany either, but equally on the other side of the coin, being really really harsh and firm and calling people names and attacking people isn't the answer either and you know and I do think we we do have to do something to stop people from coming over on these inflatable dinghies and risking their lives you know and it's not good it's not good for political cohesion because it is you know we've seen riots outside hotels which is which is terrible which is not what we want to see and we don't condone you know and And the reason, certainly nobody can condone that, and it must be awful for those people who are inside the hotels when they are subject to those protests, you know, you've got to remember that there are human beings involved.
But this is because of the resentment that is building, being built up by these policies, because I think I was reading in the Telegraph, the Red Wall constituencies up north, they are having like 16 times the amount of asylum seekers or refugees that are being housed in the South and the South East.
And the other point I want to make, I mean this is a very personal one,
[7:14] I'm very open about the fact that my two youngest children have special needs and right now we need to get primary school places for our children and they've been turned down from six local primary schools because there are no places because they're being taken up by Ukrainian children. Now I don't resent Ukrainian children a school place at all and one might argue, well, Caroline, you're middle class, you're educated, you know, it's not as important for your children to have a place as it is the Ukrainian children. And I might agree with you, I might not, but at the end of the day, not everybody's going to have that attitude and be in a position where they think, okay, I'm going to see what I can do to cobble together an education at home.
But equally, what it means is you're having to put one child over another, you're having to prioritise children for school places.
We've got a crisis in the NHS and there's a crisis in dentistry, so you're having to prioritise one person's need over another.
[8:23] So we can't just continue to say, OK, everybody who wants to come here should be able to come here and that's fine, without, you know, some serious thought to the question.
No completely and we'll move on but a simple way of fixing it would actually be to, actually process the people probably within weeks and put them back where they came from if they do if they are able to go back but that would be common sense but that would seem to fix the issue.
But anyway moving on let's just touch on this subject quickly because I want to go on some of of the others. But I find this interesting and this is Rishi Sunak bans media from Conservative Spring Conference. Press and public barred from attending with party, claiming it is an internal event closed to media. And I know I've been to many UKIP conferences, Caroline I'm sure you've been as citizen go to different political conferences and it is quite essential I think part of the democratic process to for the meditative access to these political conferences.
Yeah, I don't think we should gloss over this actually. I think this shows we have a need for a new political settlement. This is almost like something out of Putin's Russia.
[9:39] You know, the Conservative Party are, you know, years ago, the Conservative Party have always had amongst, I suppose, politics always been tribal, and the Tory Party have always had a reputation of being the elites and very divorced from the working class. They're not helping themselves with this. In the 80s, Thatcher's Tories were all about, oh yeah, you know, Basildon Man, Wolverhampton Man, you know. I mean, we're in touch with the working man and we're in touch with the working people and we want to help people make better lives for themselves. This just screams we are the elite, we are the elite, we are you know this is this is a party who,
[10:23] by the looks of things, are not going to win the next general election, or they might, and this is really unfortunate actually, because the Tory party might win the next general election on the issue of gender ideology, and because Tories can say what is a woman, the Tories are also doing the right thing on sex education lessons, they're not doing enough, we need, I might get onto that later, but we need the review of sex education in classes to be independent. We can't have the Department for Education doing the review or the inquiry because they've been captured for so many years and useless for so many years, you know, they've been captured by Stonewall. But so the Tories are doing the right thing on gender ideology and they're doing the right thing on relationships and sex education, well they're kind of on their way to doing the right thing, whereas Keir Starmer can't even make up his mind what a woman is or what his stance is, and he can see what's happened to Nicola Sturgeon.
But actually, the Tories don't deserve to get in. They're going to use this gender ideology and what they've done to suck up some Labour votes, but they don't actually deserve to get in.
[11:35] Particularly if they're going to have their conference and they're going to shut off, media and the public and it just smacks of we are the elites and we are deciding, we're in government, we don't actually care about whether or not we get in next time or we're just so complacent we think we're going to get in. And the jargon they're using is like real left-wing Marx, you know, this is a training event, I mean for goodness sake, a training event, when has a conference been an internal training event? Yeah, it smacks of elitism, it's quite.
It smacks of authoritarianism as well, you know, Soviet era, you know, group of people over there.
No, I think it's very worrying and it speaks of a need, I think, for a new political settlement or a new political party to be more transparent and more in touch. You know, we're just, oh, I'm sick of politicians.
Oh, so am I. So let's move from this story, Let's move on to the work that you're doing in CitizenGo.
[12:42] This is Waterstone Stop Pushing Dangerous Gender Ideology at Children, one of your campaigns.
And the viewers can see that Waterstone, so yeah, Waterstone's UK's leading high street book retailer has shortlisted the book entitled My Trans Teen Misadventure by Lewis Hancock, a transgender identified female for its prestigious children's book prize due to be awarded 30th of March and this is aimed at 14 year olds. It's unbelievable that Waterstones would be pushing a book like this for their children's book prize and it's wonderful to see obviously the support to this petition has gained but tell us about this campaign Caroline.
[12:42] This is Waterstone Stop Pushing Dangerous Gender Ideology at Children, one of your campaigns.
And the viewers can see that Waterstone, so yeah, Waterstone's UK's leading high street book retailer has shortlisted the book entitled My Trans Teen Misadventure by Lewis Hancock, a transgender identified female for its prestigious children's book prize due to be awarded 30th of March and this is aimed at 14 year olds. It's unbelievable that Waterstones would be pushing a book like this for their children's book prize and it's wonderful to see obviously the support to this petition has gained but tell us about this campaign Caroline.
Well okay it's not actually the first time Waterstones have done this so just before I started Citizen Go in 2019, they had another book that was about a boy who wanted to be a mermaid, and that was written by an LGBT. I think he might have been a transgender identified man, I'm not entirely sure, but certainly someone who identified as a member of the LGBT community and It was all about this boy who wants to be a mermaid and a drag queen and they nominated that as well.
[13:59] And I think clearly the head of children's is obviously fully on board the woke gender train.
Now the reason that this book caught my attention is because it actually has an adult advisory, on the back. So it's been nominated for a children's prize but with an adult warning advisory on the back. And I don't know if you've been into Waterstones but they have their book of their weeks, they have their promos. And being nominated for this book is, for this award is a real honour. It's really prestigious, it's going to make your book sales rocket and it's going to make your profile rocket. Now Waterstones are a high, as you know though, the UK's leading bookseller. They're really trusted, you know, sometimes you want something to read and you go
[14:50] into Waterstones and you see what they're recommending and you're like, oh right, okay, I'll have a look. Now these books are being placed on tables where there's a high footfall of children and adolescents as well, so but in that kind of child and adolescence area and you'll see on the table, we recommend this book. Now the thing is, as you know I've got many children, I know exactly what they're like and they will be attracted to a book and they won't see, oh, that's for older readers.
So this book has a cartoon on the front. Welcome to Hell, My Trans Teen Misadventure.
It's the sort of thing that my 8-year-old son might pick up, because it looks like Horrid Henry or something. Do you know what?
It appeals to a younger demographic.
He would pick it up, and he wouldn't look at the warning on the back.
And then he flicks through, and he sees these cartoons. Now, all children love cartoons.
My children are no different. They like the Beano.
They like Bunny and Monkey and Dogman. And all children like cartoons.
And that's fine. And Waterstones sell these nice cartoon books.
So he would see that, or my 10-year-old daughter might see this, and they'd flick through it.
[15:59] Then you've got that picture, which I've got illustrating the petition, which is basically the author of this book is projecting her own experience as a woman who wanted to be a man when she was an adolescent.
And it's just encouraging teenage girls to just self-hate on their bodies.
So breasts are two fatty lumps that need to be gone.
[16:23] There's stuff about hairy legs, you know, and then it's, you know, it points to her pubic area and it says, don't go there, an imaginary willy.
I mean, no, it's just validating every single hitch from hell.
Teen girls, almost every teen girl has some neurosis or anxiety about her body, that's entirely and 100% natural. This book is sowing the seeds of self-doubt, of hatred, and it's validating that and it's saying, oh, the female body is disgusting and something not to be liked.
[16:57] And, you know, there's no way that just a 14-year-old would read that. Probably actually, many savvy 14-year-olds would go, oh, that's a comic book.
I'm well beyond. They might actually turn their noses up at it because it looks maybe a little bit too babyish.
So it is clearly designed to appeal to a younger demographic.
But even if you were 14 and older, it's validating teen girls' anxieties about their body.
But worse still, Waterstones then came out with, oh, this is one page out of context.
No, there's another cartoon where it shows a girl being injected with either puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones.
And she was going, yeah, yeah, just in time for uni.
So it's kind of telling girls, oh, my goodness, you've got to get this done before you go to uni.
And then you have the nurse. She's learning something from the experience.
And then they mentioned Keira Bell, the detransitioner. And they were saying, oh, yeah, there was this girl.
And she really regretted it.
And she took them to court and made it much harder for everyone.
But fine, it's all been sorted out now. And you can get puberty blockers.
[18:08] And this other girl who has a beard and is now allegedly a man says, oh, yeah, this was the best thing I ever did. That's not a balanced discussion at all.
That's just pushing gender transition at children. And when we see countries around the world putting the brakes on and saying, actually, there isn't the evidence to show that this is safe.
We're quite concerned about the long-term health effects, you know, effects on bone density, on brain development, you know, all those things.
As puberty is a time when your body is laying down the foundations for the rest of your life.
[18:42] It's a completely natural process and sort of stopping with it has never ever been done before in human history and you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, is the phrase. But certainly there are a lot of concerns, long-term health concerns about puberty blockers. We're seeing young girls now with osteoporosis and arthritis, you know, and you take testosterone as a woman and it's It's very difficult to come back from that.
But there's no balanced discussion. It's just propaganda.
And what gets me about this, if this was like Asterix, for example, another great cartoon book. So in great literature, it's not cartoons.
This is not a book that would be read in a classroom. It wouldn't be studied for GCSE literature.
It has absolutely no literary merit whatsoever.
Fine, of course, Waterstones are going to sell cartoon books because they sell and they're fine.
And we have a phrase in our house, donut books.
So certain authors and certain books, they're allowed to, you know, my kids are allowed to read them.
Of course they are, but it's like a donut. You know, you don't have too much of it.
So David Walliams being one of those, yeah, don't get me started.
[19:59] But you know, that's, so the cartoon books are like the donut books.
They're not the books that you would study all the time.
And certainly, you know, not really about, and yet Waterstones have thought this worthwhile to put on a children's prestigious literature award.
[20:20] I suppose Harry Potter came out too late, but you know, everyone would have sneered at Harry Potter, but, and they did, when Harry Potter came out, everybody sneered at it.
Oh, it's not great literature, blah, blah, blah. you know, Harry Potter should be on there or, you know, it's not the magician's nephew, is it?
[20:37] It's not C.S. Lewis. It's just a very crude cartoon book pushing gender ideology. And actually
[20:46]i've been blown away by the success of this petition. This has been the most successful petition I've run, I think, in the past year, you know, and the numbers just exploded. And yeah, I'm going to keep plugging it and we are going to do some offline. What I would like to do is get a decent children's book and see if I can get a decent children's book into schools and libraries because this is a problem. Once this book goes on this list, then schools go, oh yes, it must be very good, mustn't it? Waterstones say, and same with libraries. So actually, I think there's a case for countering their propaganda with some better
propaganda. And the other thing, actually, sort of, Peter, while I'm on Waterstones, the other thing is that they appear to have been suppressing two books, one by Helen Joyce called Trans and the other by Hannah Barnes called Time to Watch or Time to Wait. And it's an investigation of the Tavistock gender identity clinic. And lots of people have been going into Waterstones and asking for copies of these books and finding that Waterstones staff have basically hid them out back.
And that, you know, they can't get them. I went into Waterstones in Godalming and asked for them.
[22:12] You know, and yeah, no, I don't have any of those. No, you'll have to order them. And certainly some of the more woke stores in London, there's been reports of staff hiding them away. So yeah, Actually, Waterstones, you are a leading high street retailer and you enjoy a lot of customer trust.
[22:38] Let me, the viewers and listeners can go to citizengo.org and go and have a look at those petitions. Sign it, but also put it on your social media profile, send it on to others.
Don't only you go and click on sign up, but make others aware of it as well.
And then you'll be passing the word and raising the concern of this and also introduce some people to Citizen Go. So go and do that.
When you finish watching this, have a click on it and make use of that.
Now, let's go and look at Down Under, New Zealand.
Can you call New Zealand Down Under? I think you can. I don't know.
I don't want to get into that argument between Aussies and the Kiwis, but UK trans critic, Kelly J Keane, there are a whole load of issues I have even just with the headline, but anyway.
[23:30] UK trans critic Kelly J Keane or Posie Parker is doused in tomato sauce and evacuated by cops before she can speak during the latest rally in New Zealand as she considers cancelling the rest of her tour. And the little bullet points here are Kelly J. Keen was doused with tomato juice, said she fears for her life, fears for life in inverted commas, meaning that I don't know why they're trying to take away from that, or and then transphobe may cancel the rest of her tour, again inverted commas, the Daily Mail calling someone who stands up for the rights of women to be women a transphobe, and then puts in men in Nazi clothing also join protests, again the Daily Mail linking her with that which is complete nonsense. But obviously people can go on to Posey's Twitter account can see the violence which she has faced.
[24:27] Talk to us about this, Caroline, and I know you've, I think I saw a tweet from you back 2020 when you were voicing support of Posie Parker and what she is trying to do, to stand up for women and to say that men have no right in those spaces and a woman is a woman, full stop. But tell us about this.
[24:49] Well, I mean, Posie's been, or Kelly, Kelly J, has been working since sort of 2017, 2018, which was when I first met her. But yeah, she did a, so she does these events around the country called Let Women Speak. Now, these events are amazing, they empower other women. So it's an open mic event, it's a bit like some speaker's corner. So she goes and she, it's not her preaching at people, she allows women to go and take the microphone and tell their story. Now, Posey does not discriminate at all. If you're a woman and you want to have the mic, she doesn't pre-screen you, she doesn't say what are your views on this, that and the other. If you want to talk about female emancipation, well it's not even emancipation, but if you want to talk about your story about why you think men shouldn't be allowed in changing rooms or your daughter's been getting changed in Primark and she's had some man come in, she's all about, or you're a victim of of domestic violence and whatever it might be.
She's all about empowering women to tell their stories. And she doesn't tell you what story you should tell.
This is about helping women to find a voice.
[26:04] And now, of course, a lot of people don't like that because let women speak.
They don't want women speaking. And they say it's terribly transphobic.
Well, I don't actually know.
The first time I was called a transphobe.
[26:19] I remember it was in 2011 and I just laughed, I thought this is a made-up word.
[26:25] What are you talking about, a transphobe? and it is a made-up word and basically anybody who, stands up for the rights of women to have single-sex spaces and to have single-sex associations gets called a transphobe because you know men who identify as women want to be in our spaces and want to be in our groups because it gives them validation. Yeah, I'm a real woman, I'm using your spaces, I'm in your clubs, you know, it gives them the validation that they want and they need and they require, but at a massive cost to women. So it comes at a cost to religious women.
[27:04] You know, particularly Jews and Muslims who, you know, aren't allowed to share those spaces, so it drives religious women out of public life. And it comes at a cost to rape victims or domestic abuse victims, people who've had a really bad experience with male violence, with rape, and they just are very, very traumatized by men and they just don't want men in their spaces.
Or just normal, I say normal, but just ordinary women and girls who don't have a history of trauma but just feel very, very uncomfortable.
And we're just told, no, no, no. You should accept men in your spaces.
You should accept men in your sports. I remember a few years ago doing a radio interview.
And I was talking about the fact that my, I think she was about 13 then.
My 13-year-old daughter had been made to feel very uncomfortable because she was getting fitted for a bra. and there was men milling about.
And somebody said to me, well, what have you done, Caroline, to make your daughter hate men.
[28:13] It's like, no, I don't. This isn't about hatred. This is about girls' natural boundaries.
And you ask any parent of any ordinary, well-adjusted teenager, when they're little, yes, they will toddle around the house with no clothes or very inhibited.
And then they hit sort of 10, and the bathroom door shuts.
And they start finding their own privacy, their own boundaries.
And they're drawing up their boundaries. And you have to respect that.
We all have our own boundaries.
But actually, what we are being told is, you must be kind.
You must be kind. You must be nice. And you must let your guard down.
So if you're getting changed in the gym and you're getting naked, and there's a woman in there with a penis, it's your fault if you've got an issue with that.
[29:01] So Posie is just, actually, Posie's just a normal wife and a mom.
And Posie's been in the very fortunate position that she was a stay-at-home mom.
She didn't have to work. And she got very, and she's always counted herself, actually.
This is why it's really strange that she gets called right wing.
She always countered herself as a lefty. She was always like, yeah, I'm a left wing woman. I'm a lefty atheist.
Again, she gets pilloried because she associates with the likes of me, who doesn't agree with abortions.
They're like, I mean, these, and you get this as well. even from the left-wing feminists, trying to tell her, trying to police who she should and should not be friends with, who she should and should not associate with.
You know, everybody's sort of trying to tell, take Posie's autonomy from her, tell her, you know, oh, if you want to be a good little feminist, this is what you should do. And Posie, you know,
[29:58] Is a marketing genius and all power to her. She's gone out there and she's got the message out there and of course, you know when you're on target because you're getting a lot of flack. So Posie has got a load of flack from the left-wing feminists who've been tarring her as a right-wing Nazi bigot and then of course that's been picked up by the trans activists. literally she's She's been in the position of just, because she didn't have to work, and she got drawn into this debate.
But she's put her heart and soul into this. And just being able to put, she thought of putting woman, adult, human, female on billboards and on the t-shirts.
And she's gone global. And good luck to her. And I'm not convinced, actually.
So in Australia, what happened was she went to Australia, a bunch of neo-Nazis turned up and they were doing Hitler salutes.
Now, I'm not sure, I don't know, but I almost wonder if this could be an Antifa...
[31:09] Because who does that in this day and age? Who does that? I mean, I didn't even know that that was a thing. People going out, goose-stepping. I shouldn't laugh because the Nazi salute is not funny, it's heinous, it's traumatic and what it's associated with. But this is not, and normally, I mean I don't know, I don't associate, contrary to popular belief, I don't know anyone who identifies as hard right or far right. I don't know any neo-nazis or any fascists.
But I kind of think, don't these sorts of people stay in the shadows? Because they know that their beliefs aren't mainstream and aren't going to be accepted. I mean, who does that? It goes out like...
[31:59] But Caroline, do you not see it out when your local Sainsbury's or Tesco's and suddenly see 20 Nazis all lined up? Oh no, none of us ever see that. So you're right. The only way I can understand is that its staged , that's the only way it makes sense.
[13:59] And I think clearly the head of children's is obviously fully on board the woke gender train.
Now the reason that this book caught my attention is because it actually has an adult advisory, on the back. So it's been nominated for a children's prize but with an adult warning advisory on the back. And I don't know if you've been into Waterstones but they have their book of their weeks, they have their promos. And being nominated for this book is, for this award is a real honour. It's really prestigious, it's going to make your book sales rocket and it's going to make your profile rocket. Now Waterstones are a high, as you know though, the UK's leading bookseller. They're really trusted, you know, sometimes you want something to read and you go
[14:50] into Waterstones and you see what they're recommending and you're like, oh right, okay, I'll have a look. Now these books are being placed on tables where there's a high footfall of children and adolescents as well, so but in that kind of child and adolescence area and you'll see on the table, we recommend this book. Now the thing is, as you know I've got many children, I know exactly what they're like and they will be attracted to a book and they won't see, oh, that's for older readers.
So this book has a cartoon on the front. Welcome to Hell, My Trans Teen Misadventure.
It's the sort of thing that my 8-year-old son might pick up, because it looks like Horrid Henry or something. Do you know what?
It appeals to a younger demographic.
He would pick it up, and he wouldn't look at the warning on the back.
And then he flicks through, and he sees these cartoons. Now, all children love cartoons.
My children are no different. They like the Beano.
They like Bunny and Monkey and Dogman. And all children like cartoons.
And that's fine. And Waterstones sell these nice cartoon books.
So he would see that, or my 10-year-old daughter might see this, and they'd flick through it.
[15:59] Then you've got that picture, which I've got illustrating the petition, which is basically the author of this book is projecting her own experience as a woman who wanted to be a man when she was an adolescent.
And it's just encouraging teenage girls to just self-hate on their bodies.
So breasts are two fatty lumps that need to be gone.
[16:23] There's stuff about hairy legs, you know, and then it's, you know, it points to her pubic area and it says, don't go there, an imaginary willy.
I mean, no, it's just validating every single hitch from hell.
Teen girls, almost every teen girl has some neurosis or anxiety about her body, that's entirely and 100% natural. This book is sowing the seeds of self-doubt, of hatred, and it's validating that and it's saying, oh, the female body is disgusting and something not to be liked.
[16:57] And, you know, there's no way that just a 14-year-old would read that. Probably actually, many savvy 14-year-olds would go, oh, that's a comic book.
I'm well beyond. They might actually turn their noses up at it because it looks maybe a little bit too babyish.
So it is clearly designed to appeal to a younger demographic.
But even if you were 14 and older, it's validating teen girls' anxieties about their body.
But worse still, Waterstones then came out with, oh, this is one page out of context.
No, there's another cartoon where it shows a girl being injected with either puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones.
And she was going, yeah, yeah, just in time for uni.
So it's kind of telling girls, oh, my goodness, you've got to get this done before you go to uni.
And then you have the nurse. She's learning something from the experience.
And then they mentioned Keira Bell, the detransitioner. And they were saying, oh, yeah, there was this girl.
And she really regretted it.
And she took them to court and made it much harder for everyone.
But fine, it's all been sorted out now. And you can get puberty blockers.
[18:08] And this other girl who has a beard and is now allegedly a man says, oh, yeah, this was the best thing I ever did. That's not a balanced discussion at all.
That's just pushing gender transition at children. And when we see countries around the world putting the brakes on and saying, actually, there isn't the evidence to show that this is safe.
We're quite concerned about the long-term health effects, you know, effects on bone density, on brain development, you know, all those things.
As puberty is a time when your body is laying down the foundations for the rest of your life.
[18:42] It's a completely natural process and sort of stopping with it has never ever been done before in human history and you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, is the phrase. But certainly there are a lot of concerns, long-term health concerns about puberty blockers. We're seeing young girls now with osteoporosis and arthritis, you know, and you take testosterone as a woman and it's It's very difficult to come back from that.
But there's no balanced discussion. It's just propaganda.
And what gets me about this, if this was like Asterix, for example, another great cartoon book. So in great literature, it's not cartoons.
This is not a book that would be read in a classroom. It wouldn't be studied for GCSE literature.
It has absolutely no literary merit whatsoever.
Fine, of course, Waterstones are going to sell cartoon books because they sell and they're fine.
And we have a phrase in our house, donut books.
So certain authors and certain books, they're allowed to, you know, my kids are allowed to read them.
Of course they are, but it's like a donut. You know, you don't have too much of it.
So David Walliams being one of those, yeah, don't get me started.
[19:59] But you know, that's, so the cartoon books are like the donut books.
They're not the books that you would study all the time.
And certainly, you know, not really about, and yet Waterstones have thought this worthwhile to put on a children's prestigious literature award.
[20:20] I suppose Harry Potter came out too late, but you know, everyone would have sneered at Harry Potter, but, and they did, when Harry Potter came out, everybody sneered at it.
Oh, it's not great literature, blah, blah, blah. you know, Harry Potter should be on there or, you know, it's not the magician's nephew, is it?
[20:37] It's not C.S. Lewis. It's just a very crude cartoon book pushing gender ideology. And actually
[20:46]i've been blown away by the success of this petition. This has been the most successful petition I've run, I think, in the past year, you know, and the numbers just exploded. And yeah, I'm going to keep plugging it and we are going to do some offline. What I would like to do is get a decent children's book and see if I can get a decent children's book into schools and libraries because this is a problem. Once this book goes on this list, then schools go, oh yes, it must be very good, mustn't it? Waterstones say, and same with libraries. So actually, I think there's a case for countering their propaganda with some better
propaganda. And the other thing, actually, sort of, Peter, while I'm on Waterstones, the other thing is that they appear to have been suppressing two books, one by Helen Joyce called Trans and the other by Hannah Barnes called Time to Watch or Time to Wait. And it's an investigation of the Tavistock gender identity clinic. And lots of people have been going into Waterstones and asking for copies of these books and finding that Waterstones staff have basically hid them out back.
And that, you know, they can't get them. I went into Waterstones in Godalming and asked for them.
[22:12] You know, and yeah, no, I don't have any of those. No, you'll have to order them. And certainly some of the more woke stores in London, there's been reports of staff hiding them away. So yeah, Actually, Waterstones, you are a leading high street retailer and you enjoy a lot of customer trust.
[22:38] Let me, the viewers and listeners can go to citizengo.org and go and have a look at those petitions. Sign it, but also put it on your social media profile, send it on to others.
Don't only you go and click on sign up, but make others aware of it as well.
And then you'll be passing the word and raising the concern of this and also introduce some people to Citizen Go. So go and do that.
When you finish watching this, have a click on it and make use of that.
Now, let's go and look at Down Under, New Zealand.
Can you call New Zealand Down Under? I think you can. I don't know.
I don't want to get into that argument between Aussies and the Kiwis, but UK trans critic, Kelly J Keane, there are a whole load of issues I have even just with the headline, but anyway.
[23:30] UK trans critic Kelly J Keane or Posie Parker is doused in tomato sauce and evacuated by cops before she can speak during the latest rally in New Zealand as she considers cancelling the rest of her tour. And the little bullet points here are Kelly J. Keen was doused with tomato juice, said she fears for her life, fears for life in inverted commas, meaning that I don't know why they're trying to take away from that, or and then transphobe may cancel the rest of her tour, again inverted commas, the Daily Mail calling someone who stands up for the rights of women to be women a transphobe, and then puts in men in Nazi clothing also join protests, again the Daily Mail linking her with that which is complete nonsense. But obviously people can go on to Posey's Twitter account can see the violence which she has faced.
[24:27] Talk to us about this, Caroline, and I know you've, I think I saw a tweet from you back 2020 when you were voicing support of Posie Parker and what she is trying to do, to stand up for women and to say that men have no right in those spaces and a woman is a woman, full stop. But tell us about this.
[24:49] Well, I mean, Posie's been, or Kelly, Kelly J, has been working since sort of 2017, 2018, which was when I first met her. But yeah, she did a, so she does these events around the country called Let Women Speak. Now, these events are amazing, they empower other women. So it's an open mic event, it's a bit like some speaker's corner. So she goes and she, it's not her preaching at people, she allows women to go and take the microphone and tell their story. Now, Posey does not discriminate at all. If you're a woman and you want to have the mic, she doesn't pre-screen you, she doesn't say what are your views on this, that and the other. If you want to talk about female emancipation, well it's not even emancipation, but if you want to talk about your story about why you think men shouldn't be allowed in changing rooms or your daughter's been getting changed in Primark and she's had some man come in, she's all about, or you're a victim of of domestic violence and whatever it might be.
She's all about empowering women to tell their stories. And she doesn't tell you what story you should tell.
This is about helping women to find a voice.
[26:04] And now, of course, a lot of people don't like that because let women speak.
They don't want women speaking. And they say it's terribly transphobic.
Well, I don't actually know.
The first time I was called a transphobe.
[26:19] I remember it was in 2011 and I just laughed, I thought this is a made-up word.
[26:25] What are you talking about, a transphobe? and it is a made-up word and basically anybody who, stands up for the rights of women to have single-sex spaces and to have single-sex associations gets called a transphobe because you know men who identify as women want to be in our spaces and want to be in our groups because it gives them validation. Yeah, I'm a real woman, I'm using your spaces, I'm in your clubs, you know, it gives them the validation that they want and they need and they require, but at a massive cost to women. So it comes at a cost to religious women.
[27:04] You know, particularly Jews and Muslims who, you know, aren't allowed to share those spaces, so it drives religious women out of public life. And it comes at a cost to rape victims or domestic abuse victims, people who've had a really bad experience with male violence, with rape, and they just are very, very traumatized by men and they just don't want men in their spaces.
Or just normal, I say normal, but just ordinary women and girls who don't have a history of trauma but just feel very, very uncomfortable.
And we're just told, no, no, no. You should accept men in your spaces.
You should accept men in your sports. I remember a few years ago doing a radio interview.
And I was talking about the fact that my, I think she was about 13 then.
My 13-year-old daughter had been made to feel very uncomfortable because she was getting fitted for a bra. and there was men milling about.
And somebody said to me, well, what have you done, Caroline, to make your daughter hate men.
[28:13] It's like, no, I don't. This isn't about hatred. This is about girls' natural boundaries.
And you ask any parent of any ordinary, well-adjusted teenager, when they're little, yes, they will toddle around the house with no clothes or very inhibited.
And then they hit sort of 10, and the bathroom door shuts.
And they start finding their own privacy, their own boundaries.
And they're drawing up their boundaries. And you have to respect that.
We all have our own boundaries.
But actually, what we are being told is, you must be kind.
You must be kind. You must be nice. And you must let your guard down.
So if you're getting changed in the gym and you're getting naked, and there's a woman in there with a penis, it's your fault if you've got an issue with that.
[29:01] So Posie is just, actually, Posie's just a normal wife and a mom.
And Posie's been in the very fortunate position that she was a stay-at-home mom.
She didn't have to work. And she got very, and she's always counted herself, actually.
This is why it's really strange that she gets called right wing.
She always countered herself as a lefty. She was always like, yeah, I'm a left wing woman. I'm a lefty atheist.
Again, she gets pilloried because she associates with the likes of me, who doesn't agree with abortions.
They're like, I mean, these, and you get this as well. even from the left-wing feminists, trying to tell her, trying to police who she should and should not be friends with, who she should and should not associate with.
You know, everybody's sort of trying to tell, take Posie's autonomy from her, tell her, you know, oh, if you want to be a good little feminist, this is what you should do. And Posie, you know,
[29:58] Is a marketing genius and all power to her. She's gone out there and she's got the message out there and of course, you know when you're on target because you're getting a lot of flack. So Posie has got a load of flack from the left-wing feminists who've been tarring her as a right-wing Nazi bigot and then of course that's been picked up by the trans activists. literally she's She's been in the position of just, because she didn't have to work, and she got drawn into this debate.
But she's put her heart and soul into this. And just being able to put, she thought of putting woman, adult, human, female on billboards and on the t-shirts.
And she's gone global. And good luck to her. And I'm not convinced, actually.
So in Australia, what happened was she went to Australia, a bunch of neo-Nazis turned up and they were doing Hitler salutes.
Now, I'm not sure, I don't know, but I almost wonder if this could be an Antifa...
[31:09] Because who does that in this day and age? Who does that? I mean, I didn't even know that that was a thing. People going out, goose-stepping. I shouldn't laugh because the Nazi salute is not funny, it's heinous, it's traumatic and what it's associated with. But this is not, and normally, I mean I don't know, I don't associate, contrary to popular belief, I don't know anyone who identifies as hard right or far right. I don't know any neo-nazis or any fascists.
But I kind of think, don't these sorts of people stay in the shadows? Because they know that their beliefs aren't mainstream and aren't going to be accepted. I mean, who does that? It goes out like...
[31:59] But Caroline, do you not see it out when your local Sainsbury's or Tesco's and suddenly see 20 Nazis all lined up? Oh no, none of us ever see that. So you're right. The only way I can understand is that its staged , that's the only way it makes sense.
It's just so bizarre. And so she got all the flack, you know, for them turning up and she should have, apparently she should have immediately told them to go away.
Right, okay, so Posie's five foot one.
[32:26] You may have, she's a diminutive. I'm sure she won't mind me saying this.
Potted Posie, no, she's a small lady.
I'm not tall and she's sort of way below me. You know, so this diminutive little lady has to see a bunch of Nazis doing like a Basil Fawlty salute and tell them to go away. I don't think so. And it wasn't, whoever they were and whatever their motivation, I mean, far right people aren't going to support feminists anyway. They're not aligned with feminists. They have a very misogynistic outlook on life. And I think they were, if they were genuine far-right people, then they were obviously just leveraging, I think what the far-right are trying to do is leverage some of these issues that, you know, conservatives are concerned about, in order to maybe try and legitimize themselves and to try and get conservative support.
But, but I'm, yeah, I'm very doubtful that they were genuine because it's,
[33:31] As you say, it just doesn't ring true. I mean, who would be saluting to Hitler and why, you know?
It's play acting.
And one thing, if I can say, that I have admired Posie from afar.
We were accused, or she was accused of being part of us, I think, because some of our team went to film an event down in Brighton.
I think I have bumped into Posie once and talked to her for maybe 40 seconds.
This was years ago, she probably had no idea who I was, and we went to film that thing in Brighton, the stand-up for women, and it was a public park, so we filmed, and suddenly the story is, and it's unbelievable, but yeah, I don't know Posie, Posie doesn't know me, good luck to her, we wish her the best from afar, but it's obviously these, the media, both kind of on the left and and then in the far right, they all try and paint a certain picture that isn't true, just to target their...
[34:32] Yeah, and I think what's happened is very frightening to her. It must have been really frightening.
Some of the pictures, people with their hands sort of on her throat. It turns out, I think it was security trying to get her away.
And she said, you know, if I'd fallen over, I didn't think I was going to get up.
And just the sheer naked aggression. And what was she doing, right? What was she doing?
She was just saying, women can have a voice, women can speak.
We don't want men in our changing rooms. We don't want men in our sports.
And of course, we've had a good result with Athletics Federation yesterday as well.
I think the tide is, I've said this for years, the tide is beginning to turn.
But actually, it feels that there is being a significant shift.
But it's awful for her, actually. Awful. and awful for the women of New Zealand to live in.
But we'll move on, but just one thing to leave the viewers is the first line, the first sentence, it gives the headlines and then it starts off in the article.
This is the Daily Mail. The first word they use in the article is controversial, anti-trans.
[35:43] It's controversial standing up for women's rights, women's only spaces?
The Daily Mail have lost the plot. If any of you think actually the Daily Mail are on the side of common sense, that is utter nonsense. They're not. They're on the side of whatever is a good story for them and sells papers.
And actually you have to ask as well, when people say transphobe, like you know, they say, what do you mean? I'm not irrationally scared or whatever. You know,
[36:08] what rights do you, does the transgender, transsexual community not have that they want?
And I guess their answer is, we want everyone to accept that we are women, that we are the sex that we say we are.
Now there is an argument, yeah, okay, I'm sure at work, people can use your new name and they can maybe use your new pronoun and people can treat you with dignity and respect.
But there needs to be a balancing exercise in terms of common sense.
And when somebody is being made to feel like they can't go to the loo all day at work because they feel very uncomfortable, then there needs to be sensible accommodation made.
And it shouldn't be a case of, you know, the woman who's feeling uncomfortable because she's got a man in her changing room or whatever, it shouldn't be her that's made, you know, to feel uncomfortable.
There needs to be, and none of the activists, a very sensible solution would be, well, let's have a third space, okay?
Let's have men, let's have women, and let's have a third gender neutral.
But the activists don't want that.
[37:27] No, they will not stop. That is the frightening thing. Let's look, because this is one of the outcomes. We've got five minutes to spare, we'll do another four. We've touched on this, and again, sometimes you end up repeating the same stories, but just with different characters in different locations. And this is the worst one yet. Violent male pedophile moved to Washington Women's Prison, And there were some, yeah, here's the figure.
So, Jolene Karisma Starr, born Joel Thomas Nicholas, is the latest male transfer to the Washington Correction Center for Women, which currently has approximately one dozen male inmates being housed in the facility.
Just there, I can see the problem. A dozen male inmates in a woman's prison.
But, Caroline, we see this regularly, probably every other week, another story of different parts of the world where a man, often who has been charged with rape or sexual assault of a woman, ends up with a group of women.
There is no way you can describe
[38:43] the suffering that then continues and the position that you put women in, putting a man who's doing that in a woman's prison.
[36:08] what rights do you, does the transgender, transsexual community not have that they want?
And I guess their answer is, we want everyone to accept that we are women, that we are the sex that we say we are.
Now there is an argument, yeah, okay, I'm sure at work, people can use your new name and they can maybe use your new pronoun and people can treat you with dignity and respect.
But there needs to be a balancing exercise in terms of common sense.
And when somebody is being made to feel like they can't go to the loo all day at work because they feel very uncomfortable, then there needs to be sensible accommodation made.
And it shouldn't be a case of, you know, the woman who's feeling uncomfortable because she's got a man in her changing room or whatever, it shouldn't be her that's made, you know, to feel uncomfortable.
There needs to be, and none of the activists, a very sensible solution would be, well, let's have a third space, okay?
Let's have men, let's have women, and let's have a third gender neutral.
But the activists don't want that.
[37:27] No, they will not stop. That is the frightening thing. Let's look, because this is one of the outcomes. We've got five minutes to spare, we'll do another four. We've touched on this, and again, sometimes you end up repeating the same stories, but just with different characters in different locations. And this is the worst one yet. Violent male pedophile moved to Washington Women's Prison, And there were some, yeah, here's the figure.
So, Jolene Karisma Starr, born Joel Thomas Nicholas, is the latest male transfer to the Washington Correction Center for Women, which currently has approximately one dozen male inmates being housed in the facility.
Just there, I can see the problem. A dozen male inmates in a woman's prison.
But, Caroline, we see this regularly, probably every other week, another story of different parts of the world where a man, often who has been charged with rape or sexual assault of a woman, ends up with a group of women.
There is no way you can describe
[38:43] the suffering that then continues and the position that you put women in, putting a man who's doing that in a woman's prison.
Yeah, and it's not just the other female, I say other female, it's not just the female inmates that that person is terrorizing, it's also the female prison guards because they have to do intimate searches and all sorts.
And so you're not just putting, and of course, every woman, regardless of whether or not she's an inmate, deserves dignity, respect and safety, but it's not just the inmates that are being put at risk, it's also the female prison staff.
And the other thing you have to remember that is in women's prisons, most women who are in prison are not there for violent crime.
[39:31] Female offending has a very different face to it to male offending. Now I know that there are women in prison for violent crime but I think the proportion, I think it's something like 75 percent, there's a very good website, Keep Prisons Single Sex, and I think it's something like over 75 percent of women who are in prison are not there for, it's for non-violent crime.
[39:57] So you've got a very vulnerable demographic as well because most women in prison are disproportionately affected by domestic violence or they've had difficult lives, which is why they have ended up in prison.
And we did another campaign this month, you may have seen, for Barbie Kardashian, a very violent 21-year-old who I can't repeat the things that he said about what he wants to do with his mother.
He's threatened to rape, torture, and murder his mother. He's got a history of violent assault.
He tried to kill a female social worker who was looking after him.
And of course, Irish media, you're not allowed to talk about him in Irish media.
They got an injunction out.
And there's an Irish outlet called Gripped, who'd published a very detailed and telling history.
And even though Barbie Kardashian, I mean, even the name just shows, tells you what he thinks of women.
I can't remember what his real name is, but everyone knows him as Barbie Kardashian.
[41:05] I think it's Alexandro something or other. I think it's Alexandro Gentile.
But yeah, he's now known as Barbie, And he's this very, very violent
prisoner, when he was jailed the guard I said, we're very worried, he still poses a significant threat to public safety and to women's safety and he's been jailed in women's, in Limerick
[41:28] Prison. And when you look at his life, he's had a terrible life. He was brought up with abusive parents and his father co-opted him into domestic abuse of his mother and he's clearly very disturbed, very violent, very dangerous.
So yes, you can have a slight bit of sympathy for a very disordered mindset.
But it's not safe to put a man like that in close proximity with women who've already, you know, if you're a woman in prison, then you've had, most of the time, you've had a very hard life.
[42:05] I'm not going to say that women should never be in prison or anything like that.
But you have to accept that you're dealing with a very vulnerable demographic and they're being put at risk and so are the female prison guards. It has to stop. And in fact, if you haven't signed a Barbie Kardashian petition on Citizen Go, please do so. Because actually, every single day that goes past and these men are in our prisons, what's going to happen? What's going to have to happen before people realise the folly of this?
Let's just bring up this tweet.
We'll see how much you want to admit. This is Graham Linehan.
And some good news, at Flying Lawyer 73 has lost another case and owes his latest victim legal fees of £15,000.
I believe now he owes between 80 and 100 grand to solicitors from a series of failed cases.
Again, why is he allowed to continue doing this?
Now you probably have an idea what this is about, but when people can spend this amount of money on nonsense through the legal system.
[43:14] It makes you kind of wonder, well, where are our tax money going? Are they paying for it themselves?
So, do you want to touch on this before we move on?
Briefly. So, Flying Lawyer 73 is Stephanie Hayden. Stephanie Hayden is the transgender-identified male who was responsible for my arrest in October, and he's also been responsible for the arrest of two other women. Kate Scottow, who was arrested, she was a breastfeeding mother, she was arrested in front of her autistic children, and I was arrested in front of my autistic children, and Bronwyn Dickinson, another woman, he got arrested. What Stephanie Hayden does, so Stephanie Hayden is a transgender identified activist who in 2018 came to prominence.
[43:59] Basically trying to do a version of lawfare, so would go around trying to get people cancelled, he got people kicked out of their university positions.
He tried to sue Mumsnet. It just made an absolute nuisance of himself.
And he said, oh, I'm standing up for transgender rights.
Now, anytime anybody says anything about Stephanie Hayden that Stephanie Hayden doesn't like, he reports them to the police and he sues them.
And he claims when he reports them to the police, he trumps up the charges.
So he told the police that I had posted memes about him on a forum. I hadn't.
But the police were stupid enough to go, oh, gosh, that's terrible, isn't it?
And came and seized my devices looking for evidence. They still haven't found it because I didn't do it.
So he uses his transgender status as leverage with the police and gets the police to act as his personal militia. The police forces aren't joined up. So Surrey police
were quite surprised when I told them, you know he's had two other women arrested for this.
Were like, well Caroline, save it for interview. She said, all right, save that for interview.
[45:08] So it's not joined up and what Stephanie Hayden does is a two-pronged approach. So he'll try and have you arrested. He had the police called out to Graham Linehan as well and he will then sue you. He's suing me for the third time.
And he sues you because he doesn't have a, to the best of my knowledge, he doesn't have a job.
He calls himself a lawyer, but he's not a regulated or qualified or insured barrister, solicitor or legal executive.
So he's eligible for the help with fees scheme, which is for people on low income or on certain benefits.
So he will take out a claim against you in the high court and he's exempt from court fees.
So if you sue somebody, it's typically about 5% of the claim and he sues for unlimited amounts.
So he is about a 5,000 pound court fee. And that's in place to act as a barrier to stop vexatious claims. Stephanie does not have that barrier.
And because Stephanie has a law degree, they then act as a litigant in person, which they appear to enjoy very much because they go to court and they start calling Barrister as malignant friend and everyone else just cringes and dies with embarrassment for them, honestly.
[46:28] So and prior to suing, he's suing my boss at the moment. My boss said, oh, I've made it.
You're not anybody in the UK. You're not doing effective work, unless you're, no, joke.
He'll probably be transcribing this and saying, oh, they deliberately.
So he's suing me for the third time. and he says, oh, you know, she's forcing me to sue her.
[46:51] Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's bringing his claim, you know, she's forced me to do this.
And so he forces, you rack up a lot of legal fees defending yourself because most people, you know, can't defend themselves in the high court, and it's all about
[47:07] do you know the procedure? Anyone who's been through a court case knows it's not necessarily about evidence or rights and wrongs. It's do you know the procedure? And Stephanie Hayden clearly does. And yeah, and his behaviour in litigation, but before, it's quite bad as well.
Oh goodness, it's quite shocking. But before he sued all these gender critical people, he was at Birkbeck University studying for law degrees, a mature student, and he sued, you just don't want this bloke in your orbit, because he sued all his fellow students as well and he sued the Students' Union because there was some argument about internal politics, he sued his landlady, he sued his, you know, and he has a history as well as he, if he doesn't pay his rent, then, you know, they obviously then take him to court for the unpaid rent and he sues them back for harassment. So amongst his former claimants are two landlords.
And it's just really frustrating because he can just keep going to the court, filing another claim.
[48:17] A master, you know, an admin judge will just briefly look at it and just check that it's procedurally right and they stamp it. And this is then, you know, taxpayers' monies, both in terms of the court fees and in terms of court time that's being wasted on these frivolous pursuits. So he sued an organisation called the Family Education Trust because they had retweeted somebody and made a comment which he thought could be about him and it was to do with vexatious litigants wasting money. So they retweeted something, it was up for less than an hour and he sued them for defamation and the court, the judges dismissed it and said that the the claim was fanciful, was devoid of reality and hopeless and he has to pay their legal costs.
But he already owes various other people, including Associated Newspapers, who reported on when he got another woman arrested, they reported on the fact that he'd got another woman arrested, and he said, oh, it's defamation and harassment, sued them, lost that one, and he owes them like 30,000. So he owes, you know, for most people, if you owed that amount of money, you wouldn't sleep.
[49:32] So I think there's a real issue here. I mean, this isn't just about my particular issues or my vendetta, but there's a real issue with the system that somebody can exploit the court system
[49:47] in this fashion and when you can't get legal aid, you know, people are scrabbling for legal aid, and yet, you know, the system wasn't set up or clearly it never envisaged the help with fee schemes that it could be abused in this way. What it's done about it, I don't know, And presumably Peter, all of this, for somebody who really despises me, so Stephanie Hayden
[50:13] every time I'm on any media outlet, every time I've been on GB News, he's made a complaint to Ofcom. For somebody who says he's so harassed by me and he's terrified and me saying things, you know, me just telling the truth that this is...
[50:27] a dodgy character, puts him at risk of violence and what have you. For someone who claims that I'm harassing him, he follows my every online and mainstream media move. Yeah, so I know that this will probably be played back in court or to the police and I'm not saying it to cause any alarm or distress. I think this is actually a public interest issue, particularly when it's somebody trying to make themselves a media figure. So, you know, yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's public interest and I think something needs to be done. So, yeah, there we are with that one.
Yeah. Well, let's finish with this story, which is a good story. This is in the Telegraph.
The week has turned in the gender war. There's been a watershed moment in the trans debate sparked with a landmark decision about female athletes, which you mentioned earlier, Caroline, and that's the World Athletics Council, which have ruled that only those born as women can compete in
[51:36] women's sports, which did seem quite common sense to most of us, but yeah, they have ruled that common sense will prevail. So it is a positive story, and I think the article talks about that this could actually spread into other areas and bring that, I guess, sense of common sense to the debate in other parts of society?
Yeah, I hope so. And, you know, I think.
[52:04] what's been really, this has been quite a grassroots movement right from the start, you know, like we talked about Posie Parker.
[52:14] But we can see there a picture of Sharron Davies. And it's just really gratifying that we've had JK Rowling and Sharron Davies.
And some of these really big names speak out because someone like me, someone like Posie, we get called right wing bigots, transphobes.
[52:37] But you see someone like Sharron Davies, who she feels really or Sharron Davies, isn't it?
Sorry, I called her Davies. She feels very strongly about this because she was cheated out of a gold medal her entire career because of women on testosterone, these German athletes who were doped up.
So she feels very strongly about fair play for women in sports.
And it's very hard to portray Sharron as being a conservative bigot, for want of a better word, or for being right wing.
And I think it's incremental.
This was always going to be death by 1,000 cuts, because gender ideology had got so big.
And it had got captured into every area of society. We said earlier, we've seen it in education.
We've seen it very chillingly, as I know and Harry Miller saw and various other people have experienced.
We've seen it embedded into the police service.
[53:45] We've seen it embedded into every element of society.
[53:52] So as a telegraph sort of op-ed made clear, it was either we kind of go along with this and we say, you know, people like Caroline, people like Posie are, you know, outrageous bigots, or actually, you know, we push back, you know, it didn't even say we pushed back, but we had a choice to be made.
And I think, finally, we deviated off down the path of madness.
And slowly, I think we're coming back. And I think the pendulum is swinging.
And I don't, there's always a danger, isn't it? The pendulum goes.
I think what we had was, we had the laws of 1957, when homosexuality was criminalized.
And we've swung all the way from there, where being gay would get you locked up, and again,
[54:48] that was low-hanging fruit. It was much easier for the police to arrest somebody who was cottaging in the public loo. Now, that is an offence to public decency, but it's much easier to get someone doing that than the serious criminals, whereas these days it's much easier to get someone saying the wrong thing online. So we've gone from a position where people were unjustly repressed. For someone who's often called a homophobe, I feel very strongly about the decriminalisation of homosexuality. I believe that it's a private act of morality and what you do in your bedroom, as long as it's, you know, the usual caveats with consenting adult, and doesn't involve children or animals, that's your affair.
What you want to get up to in your bedroom is your affair. And as a tolerant liberal, I have no interest in telling people what they should be doing in their bedrooms.
Even as an Orthodox Christian, I don't have care of souls. It's not for me to bring people to Jesus by telling them what they should do in bed.
So I feel very strongly that homosexuality shouldn't be criminalized.
But we've gone from a position where, because we had a section of society who were unjustly repressed, the pendulum has swung all the way over there,
[56:16] to the other side. And people have sort of reacted so strongly to the oppression.
It's the same with critical race theory as well, in that we've still been acting in 2022, like we're a deeply homophobic or a deeply racist society.
And we're not. I think there has been,
[56:36] I would say, at least for the last 20, 30 years, there has been a lot more tolerance.
And rightly so, people shouldn't be persecuted.
But there's still this feeling, oh, there's this terrible persecution.
So we have to flood children with all kinds of propaganda and tell them how to wash after sex.
And it's kind of been part and parcel of sexual liberalism as a movement, sexual progressivism, sexual libertinism. So we've gone from repression to libertinism and I think we need to sort of
[57:12] move somewhere back near to the middle. And you know, I said this on my Twitter feed and I mean it, I think it's been really hard for, there have been very many sensible lesbians and gays out there that have been calling out their own community and that's been, that's courageous really actually to say, hang on a minute, I didn't sign up for this. I didn't sign up for people claiming to be a different sex. I didn't sign up for the grooming of children. You know, this doesn't help. This isn't, you know, this kind of drag queens into primary schools perpetuates every single negative stereotype that they've been trying to counter for years and years. So I'm hoping that it will, I think we're beginning to see a correction, but nobody can sit on their laurels, you know, and certainly as New Zealand shows, there are still countries,
[58:11] New Zealand, Australia, America and parts of America still deeply enthralled to this nonsense and we need to really have a think about, you know, we need this independent investigation into sex ed in schools. So, yeah.
[52:04] what's been really, this has been quite a grassroots movement right from the start, you know, like we talked about Posie Parker.
[52:14] But we can see there a picture of Sharron Davies. And it's just really gratifying that we've had JK Rowling and Sharron Davies.
And some of these really big names speak out because someone like me, someone like Posie, we get called right wing bigots, transphobes.
[52:37] But you see someone like Sharron Davies, who she feels really or Sharron Davies, isn't it?
Sorry, I called her Davies. She feels very strongly about this because she was cheated out of a gold medal her entire career because of women on testosterone, these German athletes who were doped up.
So she feels very strongly about fair play for women in sports.
And it's very hard to portray Sharron as being a conservative bigot, for want of a better word, or for being right wing.
And I think it's incremental.
This was always going to be death by 1,000 cuts, because gender ideology had got so big.
And it had got captured into every area of society. We said earlier, we've seen it in education.
We've seen it very chillingly, as I know and Harry Miller saw and various other people have experienced.
We've seen it embedded into the police service.
[53:45] We've seen it embedded into every element of society.
[53:52] So as a telegraph sort of op-ed made clear, it was either we kind of go along with this and we say, you know, people like Caroline, people like Posie are, you know, outrageous bigots, or actually, you know, we push back, you know, it didn't even say we pushed back, but we had a choice to be made.
And I think, finally, we deviated off down the path of madness.
And slowly, I think we're coming back. And I think the pendulum is swinging.
And I don't, there's always a danger, isn't it? The pendulum goes.
I think what we had was, we had the laws of 1957, when homosexuality was criminalized.
And we've swung all the way from there, where being gay would get you locked up, and again,
[54:48] that was low-hanging fruit. It was much easier for the police to arrest somebody who was cottaging in the public loo. Now, that is an offence to public decency, but it's much easier to get someone doing that than the serious criminals, whereas these days it's much easier to get someone saying the wrong thing online. So we've gone from a position where people were unjustly repressed. For someone who's often called a homophobe, I feel very strongly about the decriminalisation of homosexuality. I believe that it's a private act of morality and what you do in your bedroom, as long as it's, you know, the usual caveats with consenting adult, and doesn't involve children or animals, that's your affair.
What you want to get up to in your bedroom is your affair. And as a tolerant liberal, I have no interest in telling people what they should be doing in their bedrooms.
Even as an Orthodox Christian, I don't have care of souls. It's not for me to bring people to Jesus by telling them what they should do in bed.
So I feel very strongly that homosexuality shouldn't be criminalized.
But we've gone from a position where, because we had a section of society who were unjustly repressed, the pendulum has swung all the way over there,
[56:16] to the other side. And people have sort of reacted so strongly to the oppression.
It's the same with critical race theory as well, in that we've still been acting in 2022, like we're a deeply homophobic or a deeply racist society.
And we're not. I think there has been,
[56:36] I would say, at least for the last 20, 30 years, there has been a lot more tolerance.
And rightly so, people shouldn't be persecuted.
But there's still this feeling, oh, there's this terrible persecution.
So we have to flood children with all kinds of propaganda and tell them how to wash after sex.
And it's kind of been part and parcel of sexual liberalism as a movement, sexual progressivism, sexual libertinism. So we've gone from repression to libertinism and I think we need to sort of
[57:12] move somewhere back near to the middle. And you know, I said this on my Twitter feed and I mean it, I think it's been really hard for, there have been very many sensible lesbians and gays out there that have been calling out their own community and that's been, that's courageous really actually to say, hang on a minute, I didn't sign up for this. I didn't sign up for people claiming to be a different sex. I didn't sign up for the grooming of children. You know, this doesn't help. This isn't, you know, this kind of drag queens into primary schools perpetuates every single negative stereotype that they've been trying to counter for years and years. So I'm hoping that it will, I think we're beginning to see a correction, but nobody can sit on their laurels, you know, and certainly as New Zealand shows, there are still countries,
[58:11] New Zealand, Australia, America and parts of America still deeply enthralled to this nonsense and we need to really have a think about, you know, we need this independent investigation into sex ed in schools. So, yeah.
Well, let's see if a so-called Conservative government actually get around to doing that, but there's a whole other discussion. Caroline, as always, thank you so much for joining us and giving us your thoughts on those stories.
Oh, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Peter.
Not at all, and I encourage our viewers and listeners to go and make use of citizengo.org and do look at those petitions, do sign them and do pass them on to your friends and encourage them to do the same.
And I think on that, I wish everyone watching a wonderful rest of your Saturday. Have a great Sunday.
And we'll be with you on Monday evening for a special that something that we've been working on for the last two years behind the scenes.
And I'm so excited that we can finally discuss it.
[59:15] And that is tune in Monday 8 p.m. And we'll talk about it then.
So look forward to seeing you then 8pm UK or 3pm Eastern or noontime if you're over in the Pacific on the West Coast. So we'll see you on Monday. Thank you so much and good night to you all.
And I think on that, I wish everyone watching a wonderful rest of your Saturday. Have a great Sunday.
And we'll be with you on Monday evening for a special that something that we've been working on for the last two years behind the scenes.
And I'm so excited that we can finally discuss it.
[59:15] And that is tune in Monday 8 p.m. And we'll talk about it then.
So look forward to seeing you then 8pm UK or 3pm Eastern or noontime if you're over in the Pacific on the West Coast. So we'll see you on Monday. Thank you so much and good night to you all.
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