Anna McGovern - Being a Brit Down Under and Launch of The AW.Today

Show Notes and Transcript

Anna McGovern joins Hearts of Oak to share her experiences in Australia, discussing her interest in the country, working with Sky News Australia, and the differences in media freedom compared to the UK. 
She delves into the culture wars in Australia, touching on topics like the Israel-Palestine conflict and challenges faced by individuals with differing viewpoints. Anna also talks about pro-life advocacy, gender ideology, and social conservatism, emphasizing the role of platforms like AW.Today in promoting diverse perspectives and truthful reporting.
She discusses the importance of teamwork and research in accurate news delivery, as well as the challenges of going against the mainstream narrative. Anna highlights the expansion of AussieWire's coverage to the UK, The US and beyond, stressing the support for truth-seeking outlets and informed discussions. 
She concludes by emphasizing the power of individuals in making a positive impact, whether through starting a podcast or engaging in meaningful conversations.

Anna McGovern is a Broadcaster and Journalist, as seen on the Telegraph, Sky News Australia, TalkTV, GB News and a variety of other media outlets.
Her specialist areas include traditional conservatism, politics, culture, and current affairs. Anna makes regular appearances on TV and radio networks discussing top news stories for stations including TalkTV and GB News. 

Connect with Anna and AW.Today...
WEBSITE           annamcgovern.com
X/TWITTER       x.com/AnnaMcGovernUK
                           x.com/theaussiewire

Interview recorded  2.4.24

Connect with Hearts of Oak...
WEBSITE            heartsofoak.org/
PODCASTS        heartsofoak.podbean.com/
SOCIAL MEDIA  heartsofoak.org/connect/
SHOP                  heartsofoak.org/shop/

TRANSCRIPT

 

(Hearts of Oak)

And it's wonderful to have Anna McGovern with us today. Anna, thanks so much for your time.

(Anna McGovern)

Thank you so much for having me.

Not all. Fascinated with your experiences down under. You've been over there for the last six months, heavily involved in media. I will get into all of that, but people can obviously find you @AnnaMcGovernUK is your handle. Can you not change that to Anna McGovern, AUS or you're still holding on to the UK

I'm still holding on to my UK roots and then we'll have to see maybe it'll be Anna McGovern AUS but I doubt it for now

Hold off on that hold off. So Anna it's obviously, I met up with you I think last and nearly the end of last year actually just before you were heading off to Australia, been there six months. Maybe just ask your experiences first as a Brit out there. You've been involved in the media for a number of years in the UK. I've seen you pop up on Talk TV and GB News. You're on TNT Radio, all different media outlets here in the UK. But maybe let us know what you're, maybe why you wanted to head to Australia and what that's been like culturally before we can get on to actually the media and the news.

Yeah so for my parents, they came over to Australia over 10 years ago to visit and then my mum even earlier than that when she was about my age and she was working in Australia and that's when she first fell in love with the country then her and my dad went over just over 10 years ago and they really loved it and I think growing up I've always been told, Annie you've got to go to Australia, this country is for you and it was kind of ingrained in me and it was always somewhere where I was really interested in actually seeing and because the lifestyle that they have out there is incredible and of course the weather, I love the weather it's It's very hot, very nice, very different compared to the UK. So I first came out here because I just graduated university and I had an opportunity to do some work experience as a producer at Sky News Australia. And so I decided with the opportunity, I'm just going to go for it and see what happens. I wasn't actually anticipating being in Australia for this long, but six months later and I'm still here and it's all really worked out even better than I could have possibly imagined.

Like the way of life here is much more relaxed than you see in the UK. I think in the UK, everyone's very driven, motivated by work pretty much all the time. Whereas in Australia, I think what I really found an appreciation for is that they very much have a work life balance. So it's very much, you know, your personal time is very protected. You know, you've got you can literally spend, you know, go to the beach for the day because the beaches here are so beautiful. For we don't I wouldn't say we necessarily have the same quality beaches in the UK as we I've seen in Australia andI think with that kind of outlook of life as well I think that, I think personally the Australians have it right in many respects because I think they when they work they work hard but then they also have a kind of a work-life balance and they have that time protected as well which is something that I've really come to grow an appreciation for and it's such a a beautiful country as well. I think one of my first kind of aspects about it that I was very nervous about was the spiders. I'm very scared of spiders, I'm very scared of snakes, all of that and I thought I'd be walking in and there'd be spiders all over the floor and you just you know, I was very nervous especially you kind of look them up on the internet they're massive nothing like that thankfully, I have seen a couple of huntsman spiders which are massive but they're actually not too harmful to us humans and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

You can always go to Adelaide zoo can't you for the reptile area.

Exactly if you want to see some more crazy animals yeah you can do that, something you probably wouldn't see as much in the, just on your day-to-day walk or anything so yeah

Anna, I want to get into the the media side and you mentioned Sky News Australia, I think many of us in the UK came across Sky News, probably in the COVID tyranny. It popped up a lot of, not articles, but a lot of commentators there talking about free speech against COVID tyranny, about personal freedoms. And it seemed to be a bulwark against what was coming. And obviously Sky News in the UK is at one point, I guess, thinking back, was a free speech network. It's no longer. It's just apes what the BBC do. So I guess I've seen that in my timeline. You've obviously come across and seen it all in your time line. Tell us how kind of that developed and how you ended up reaching out and actually working with them.

So one important thing to know about Sky News Australia is that they're not ruled by Ofcom like we are in the UK so the commentators the presenters have a lot more freedom to actually say what they believe without too much without the same fear of being cancelled like we've seen in the UK with so many presenters and commentators actually getting cancelled for saying something that's a bit too much out of line for the establishment. So I think that the fact that they have that freedom, that ability to actually speak their mind and, you know, say things that maybe the establishment might not agree with. I found that to be just really incredible because we actually saw some really insightful commentary from that because they just had that freedom to be able to speak their mind. I was involved as like a commentator for one of the shows for a royal edition.

And so reporting on that, which was my first involvement with Sky News Australia. And then I started then actively watching the shows and I was just really inspired by the level of actually the commentary that we were seeing which is so high quality and it really inspired me as well because I always knew that I wanted to come to Australia and then in my mind I thought if I could even be involved with an outlet such as this doing such incredible work that would be such a you know that would just be an even but you know make the experience even better and which is why I reached out and they very graciously welcomed me into the team and I got to see that behind the scenes, how it works, how they put the show together which was so insightful and I learned so much from my time there and so I think for some of these media outlets as well you do see so many, you are so much more at risk of actually being cancelled if you say something that is so out of line with what the establishment kind of perpetuates further and I do wonder what the future of the media will actually be for many of these presenters many of these commentators especially as where we're heading towards the general election, it is most likely in the UK that Labour is going to win in my personal opinion anyway and I do wonder what that will look like moving forward for many of these people in these industries.

Tell us about the fascinating you said that Ofcom which are the the regulatory body for media in the UK, and they've just been given a lot of extra powers to clamp down on anything the government doesn't like. But you mentioned that Ofcom, there is no such thing, or the media are not under. How does that work then in terms of freedom? Does the government have a full hands-off?

Obviously, you've been there six months, so you get a feel of, is there none of this? Oh, I'm not sure if you should say that. Is it purely along the kind of editorial lines of the station as opposed to what the government may think of it?

So I think in terms of outlets such as Sky News Australia, who are not ruled by, you know, organisations such as Ofcom in what they say. What they say, the fundamentals of it has to be true. You can't just lie. You will be penalised if you lie actively. However, they're not under those same restrictions, which mean they have a lot more freedom to actually say what they believe. But it's not ever just one person there's a whole team behind them of producers and researchers are putting all of this information together to ensure that

[9:08] that presenter is most prepared to actually deliver the news that the audience cares about that they tune in to actually watch, so it's not ever just one person I think obviously in some circumstances for smaller outlets it can just be one person, but for these bigger outlets it does take a team and actually a lot of the work the producers and researchers all of these people do often does go uncredited because what you see as an audience, audience member watching or just tuning in from your screen is just one person reiterating the news delivering their opinions and whilst it would be their opinions of course like the foundations of it that takes a whole team to prepare that so I think it shows there are people working behind the scenes who very much believe in the message and want to get that out there for the audience and you know so they can be the best informed which I think is why they just keep coming back again and again.

Tell us about, because whenever you have government overreach either you buckle or you fight back and I think in some ways people didn't know how they would respond to the the COVID tyranny until it happened, it's one thing saying what you'll do it's nothing actually doing it, what was kind of when as you've spent the last six months talking to people and maybe understanding people's experiences there and I think in the UK we saw them as a country that was more locked down and more restricted in what you could say and we've had Avi Yemini on before a number of times talking about that and the the one One Nation Australia Party.

We've had Malcolm Roberts on, Senator Malcolm Roberts talking about that. But tell us kind of how those conversations with people, as you've kind of understood a little bit more, maybe about what they have faced and how they've come out of it at the other end of the last four years, I guess.

So I've met both of them and they're both doing fantastic work out here in Australia. One thing in Australia as well, particularly in Melbourne, they saw the most, you know, restricted lockdowns in the world.

And actually, there were people who were actively speaking up against this, protesting against what the kind of government forces were implementing on the people. And they were actually there. Actually, I know some people who got arrested and actually fell under that, you know, fell under the criminal jurisdiction just for speaking out against lockdowns, just for trying to raise awareness and, you know, actually encourage the public to stand up against what they, what they were being implemented under by these governmental forces. And I think it definitely shows that the political outlook that I've seen in Australia so far, I think it's massively changed since lockdowns because a lot of the Aussies have especially woken up to what the government can actually be capable of doing, how much control they can have over your lives. And I think for many people, that was a huge turning point in their political activism and actually speaking up a lot more.

And I do think that that could be a potential risk that we see in the future as well. You know, governmental forces actually implementing similar lockdowns. It might even be for climate change, for example, another excuse to have more control over our lives. And I think for many political activists out here in Australia, that's actually inspired them to keep going, keep educating people so that they can actually protect themselves and not just comply with everything that the government says.

Anna, the culture wars and you have fighting the culture war, I think, in your in your Twitter bio. And it's a term we've we've heard a lot. And you've obviously reposted. There was a pro-life demo in London, middle of March.

You've done programs against the puberty blockers, the whole gender onslaught against children. They're all different issues, I guess, and culture wars is a kind of umbrella term of a lot of those that probably boils around personal freedom and common sense, which seems to be out the window. But when you think culture war, what have you seen that that means in Australia?

Is it different than the UK? What is that term? How is it defined? I guess they're down under.

So, one aspect that I really noticed as a Brit coming over to Australia is how much crossover that we see with our political issues. So, for example, in Australia, one big debate going on is the Israel and Palestinian conflict that's going on. We're seeing so many widespread protests across the country and many Jewish people actually at risk as a result of those protests, simply just for being Jewish and simply if they just happen to walk past someone who is a Palestinian activist um a very good friend of mine who I met out here is Jewish and he's from Israel and he's genuinely he's felt um very concerned for his safety he has been at risk before simply just for where he's from in public as well he's been approached by people just simply for being from Israel. And then they associate that with him being a terrible, evil person, even though obviously he can't control where he comes from. And I think with the protests as well, a few weeks ago, what we saw was Never Again Is Now, which is a peaceful gathering that the Jewish community put on just to stand up against anti-Semitism. Anyone from any kind of religious belief or background were welcome to come. But it actually got counter-protested by Palestinian activists, activists who then tried to scream over them.

Their presence there was with the kind of goal of intimidating anyone who came in support of standing up against

Anti-Semitism and the Jewish community. So I know for many of the people there, they were at fear of their safety. And what was very interesting was the demographic of the Palestinian activists, actually their counter-protester state, were, from what I could see, mostly young Australians who were there protesting, not from Palestine necessarily, which I just from my kind of takeaway just seemed like it was a big big virtue signal on their end, how could you be against standing up against anti-Semitism I genuinely don't understand and you could very much see that on the standing up against anti-Semitism side the Jewish community that gathered to support one another it It was very peaceful, whereas the Palestinian side was a lot more volatile, a lot more people feeling the risk of their safety being impacted.

This is something we've seen in the UK as well with many prolific protests happening in London. So for me, kind of my takeaway was we're actually seeing so many of the same issues crossing over and I think that as well that I think that just kind of shows how much crossover there is with these issues how you know what we see in the UK can be replicated even on the other side of the world as well so we do see those same issues crop up again and again.

Tell us I'm curious because I saw a massive demo once again in London on Saturday a well I call them pro pro-Hamas demos, basically, because that is the government. So if you're there in support of the people in Gaza, then in effect you're pro-Hamas, because there's very little comment about removing that organisation. But I've been probably surprised in the UK at the...

Anti-Jewish feeling, which has come out in people that actually I've done a lot with over the last four years. And I will happily call myself a Christian Zionist. That probably comes from a biblical background as a Christian, that you've got 3,000 years of history. But I've been intrigued with a lot of commentators who, I guess there was that anti-Semitism. And in my line, you can be anti-Semitic if you want, but it's just interesting seeing that come out. You see the freedom to to choose any idea or belief you want. But what's it like over there? Because the UK probably has traditionally been a more friendly country to Israel, especially if you look across Europe, where Europe has not been. And yet we've seen that probably slowly change. And a lot of people who I'm surprised that I thought would want freedom actually have been very anti-Israel and pro-Hamas. How kind of have conversations been over there? and how have you seen that being reported on?

So I think with the same kind of attitude in the UK, kind of replicating in Australia, I think with especially the Palestinian activists, what I have personally seen is that the majority of them are quite volatile in their beliefs and in the way that they oppose Jewish people and essentially anyone who is from Israel or has any associations with Israel. So as I said earlier, one of my very good friends who I met out here is from Israel. I remember one particular instance where a group of us were in a pub and he actually got a group of people walk up to him and question him.

Just because he was from Israel, he was not doing anything. He was just simply enjoying a drink. And then he had a group come up to him trying to intimidate him, again, just because he's from Israel, which is absolutely ridiculous, if anything, racist, just because of where he comes from.

I have seen this on a number of different issues as well. I think with the Israel-Palestine conflict, that is something that's incredibly topical out here, is causing a lot of outrage. And I think as well, if you were to say anything that is even perceived as supporting Israel, as supporting Jewish people, you'll be reprimanded in person and online for having those beliefs. Like, for example, I simply attended the peaceful gathering in Adelaide in support of Jewish people and uploaded a video of what was going on simply, as a bystander, as someone who's reporting and watching the events unfold. And I received a, must have been hundreds of comments, dozens of messages as well some of them just even too prolific for me to even read out on the show, because they're genuinely, you have some people who I genuinely don't know if they live on the internet or something but the content of the messages and some of the comments were incredibly incredibly disturbing and I think this is something that I've seen a lot in Australia and in the UK as well it is something that is definitely causing a lot of outrage and it's particularly what I've seen from the Palestinian side as well.

Two other issues which I mentioned earlier on the the pro-life and the gender debate and the the pro-life I found intriguing in the UK because it's not a topic you're really supposed to discuss it's not like in America where there are two large blocks, two very vocal blocks, and it is a public conversation in the UK.

It's not really. With the gender stuff, it's becoming more and more drip, drip, feed. It's becoming a bigger issue as it becomes exposed to the actual mutilation that we are doing to children. How does it work over there? Well, one, I guess, one, you've got states, so you'll have different, I think I looked at different abortion limits and different states have some differences. But then how does the conversation work on, I guess, those two issues of children changing gender and also the pro-life conversation?

So I could bring a personal anecdote into this, actually. So in my kind of early stages of my travels around Australia, when I was in Sydney, there was an event being put on with, it was like supporting the trans community and essentially just pushing the trans agenda even further. There were young people children in attendance it was all just in support of trans rights so I attended the end of it just as a unbiased bystander not actively getting involved and wanting to report on the event and actually kind of to have an understanding of what was behind the protest what were the principles they were standing for and why they were holding it in the first place. If you are aware of my political work, you're aware of where my personal belief stands on it. But it was for the sake of actually informing the public of what is actually behind these protests, why are they gathering?

And I got into conversation with a few of the activists who were there for this protest. And they were very nice to me at first without knowing anything about me. And then I said, look, I'm doing a piece on this protest today. I'm recording what's behind it, explained who I was and if they'd be interested one of them agreed to an interview um even though you know I laid out exactly why I was there and what the purpose of the interview was for and then they started um trying to look me up and the outlet I was representing and then all of a sudden like halfway through the interview someone started shouting over telling me to stop and then a huge you know there was this group that started to kind of circle around me and the attitude immediately changed just because they saw online, you know, conservative beliefs. They saw my personal opinions, even though I was very clear in the understanding of why I was coming to conduct the interviews. They could hear. I told them some of the questions I'd be asking beforehand, made sure they were comfortable before we proceeded. Regardless of all of that, I started getting gathered by this group of people, all went silent, staring at me. It was It was incredibly intimidating. And my cameraman who was there with me was very, very scared afterwards because he'd never seen anything like this before. And that was the first time that I genuinely felt quite nervous for my safety at one of these events. So for example in London we have Kellie Jay Keen's let women speak events which is essentially bringing women together peacefully and to talk about how gender ideology has impacted their lives and they're for many people going to this event are mothers whose children are actually going through trans surgery or maybe they're wanting to identify as a different name maybe they recently found out that their daughter going to school is actually secretly identifying as being a boy and they had no knowledge of it which I've personally seen in schools as well so for many of these people it's their personal testimonies an opportunity for them to come together and discuss how gender ideology has impacted their lives, all of these are very peaceful and then again you've got trans activists on the other side actively protesting against them, screaming over them trying to intimidate them, I have seen stories online where people have actually been assaulted for having these beliefs. I think they were actually at these events as well. That's my understanding is correct.

So for the people who are standing up for trans rights, what's interesting to me is that when in Sydney, when that event was going on, I gave them an opportunity to state their case, discuss why they were standing up for the principles that they were. And they didn't want that opportunity. I gave them the opportunity. They didn't want it. And yet when you have the other side, a lot of them very peaceful discussing their background, their personal stories, and you don't see any of that kind of...

I don't even know how you'd necessarily describe it, but it's almost like this anger, this kind of, you know, this shouting, the screaming, the intimidation. You never really see that on those sides. But when you see it from the people standing up for trans rights, more often than not, you see them, you know, hurling abuse, intimidating women just for saying,

I want women's only bathrooms. I want it to just be women competing in women's sports and not competing against men saying simple biological facts will potentially put you at risk of your personal safety which I just think is completely ridiculous.

I want to get on The Aussie Wire but let just one other question on the issues again, how have you seen Australia in terms of whether it's conservative or not, socially conservative because in the UK I think people by and large are more traditional or more conservative in their viewpoint, now there are demographic issues within that and within age, but I think people are generally that but the media have pushed an agenda and people are afraid, it's like the Brexit debate whenever you talk to people about Brexit during the vote people privately would say oh I'm for Brexit but publicly they didn't want to be called a racist for saying they wanted to leave.

And people kind of shy away a little bit and keep those feelings private. But I think by and large, the UK are socially conservative.

How have you seen Australia in your six months? How kind of do you pigeonhole it, I guess?

I think this is a problem we're seeing internationally where you've got the the establishment rule and people just working everyday regular jobs are actually too fearful to speak their minds in case they lose their job and then subsequently their entire livelihoods, for example what we touched on earlier with Kellie Jay Keen's let women speak events, there would there be women turning up in masks, not because they're trying to protect themselves from COVID or anything like that but actually to conceal their identity because they were too scared that if they were recorded or if anyone recognised them at that particular event, that they could actually subsequently lose their job, lose their livelihood, the life that they have built, just because they are standing up for women's rights, which I think demonstrates just how much power the establishment essentially has.

I think personally in Australia, we still see those same issues. But what I've seen from Aussies themselves, when I've done Vox Pox content, for example, on the street interviews, asking people questions. From what I've seen, the Aussies are much more outspoken with their opinions. And I think especially since some of the most, being the most locked down country in the world with, compared to some of the restrictions we saw in other places across the world. I think a lot of people have woken up to the kind of tyrannical rule that we've seen with the government and they're actually a lot more confident in speaking up against the establishment and against the kind of policies that are designed to control their lives as well. Even though in for many for those activists as well who go that one step further and make it their career that actually encouraging people to speak out and informing the public that can put them at risk as well of you know even you know being you know persecuted and by the government by the police just for having those opinions so they take a huge risk with that so I can understand why for other people who are not in the media space, why they probably would be more reserved with their opinions, because they don't want to put their livelihood at risk, which then I think also, raises the question, do we really have a free society where we can speak our minds? I don't think so.

Yeah, Kellie Jay Keen certainly is a legend, a huge respect for, and she has widened the conversation, I think, giving people the courage and the strength to actually speak out and speak truth. So we need many more people like Kellie to actually engage and push the agenda forward.

So Aussie Wire, tell me about Aussie Wire. And I know we're doing this a few days forward. It goes out and there's some changes happening yeah tell us what the Aussie wire is and then what's changing on it.

So the Aussie wire will no longer be the Aussie Wire it will actually be known as AW.Today and the reason behind this is because we are broadening out so not only will we be reporting news in Australia but it will be stretching out as far as the UK and the US because as we've understood as well from our audience we do have a growing us and UK audience years and we really want to tap into that so it will be a much more of an international outreach which we're all very excited for here on the team and we do have our kind of rebrand announcement actually coming out very very soon so that's very exciting for us, for me personally this was something that I never even realized that I would get involved with when I first came out to Australia, for me it was about seeing a new country understanding the way of life and pretty much just you know, traveling across the country and just, enjoying myself, essentially, and seeing things that I would never normally see. And then when I got approached with this opportunity, to actually develop the company further.

I grabbed it with both hands, it's something that I'm very excited about, because I think we, we are podcast like this, for example, as well, I have the freedom to say whatever I believe.

But with a lot of the establishment media out there who are, you know, even like the posts they put out, the content, the news shows and the news cycle, all of it in itself is all very interconnected. And it's very much establishment rules. And if you speak out against that, you could get cancelled again. You could lose your entire livelihood. And I think that's why it's so important that we have companies like this that actually go against the narrative, go against the establishment and actually say i think what people are really thinking deep down but are too afraid to say publicly and it's not something that you would necessarily see with the big media establishments as well because they have to curtail um to the restrictions and actually you know risk they're not not risk getting themselves cancelled at all um so i think very For me, I'm very passionate about other outlets that actually protect your freedom to speak and actually just be able to say what people are thinking, I think is incredibly important. Tell us more about Aussie One, or AW.today.

Tell us more about Aussie One, or AW.today I certainly find, I guess, as we've done Hearts of Oak, you have it focused on your connections. There becomes much wider and now probably it's close to 50-50 split in US and UK audience but tell us about AussieWire and what's it stand for why is it needed what makes it distinct?

So I think one thing that really separates us is our whole ethos is being your connection to the truth and an outlet that the public can really trust, I think especially we live in a world that is digital we've got a 24 7 news cycle and I think especially for a lot of the social media posts that you see, a lot of it can be again ruled over by the establishment and you're told things that not aren't necessarily true and I think the public are for a start waking up and not actually trusting what is being told to them necessarily by the big establishment.

And I think for them as well it is really it's It's incredibly important to actually have an outlet that protects freedom of speech, that is able to say what they truly believe. And actually, just to increase our understanding on issues that otherwise we would not hear about from the establishment, which I think is what kind of separates us from the big establishment.

Obviously, you have to conform to particular rules, have certain restrictions.

What they can and can't say. We don't have any of that. and I think as well with the contributors that will be coming on board which I'm very very excited about all of them have a very distinct niche very and they're very passionate about the particular areas that they are um covering for the channel and I think with them coming on board as well we'll be seeing lots of different faces from different backgrounds I think it will be incredibly relatable for the audience actually just seeing someone that kind of you know represents them almost rather than you know you kind of see the same faces all the time with especially the big you know the big establishment with our model um we're very much um excited to actually hear from the public we want to hear what the public has to say what the audience has to say what topics are they most passionate about seeing on the screens and I think again as I said with the contributors we've got coming on board I'm very excited about them because I know each and every one of them will bring something different new and exciting I will also be hosting my own show as well which I'm incredibly excited about

So yeah because you've done uh kind of stuff front the camera then a producer role I guess you went over initially would have been more behind the scenes um so it's it's intriguing I think someone like you who has that experience kind of behind the scenes and in front of camera kind of how have you found um I guess those two roles which which are completely different, really. They're worlds apart.

Oh they are incredibly much worlds apart and I think for the producers and those who work behind the scenes that is how it all gets out because as I said earlier it takes a team it's not just always one person it's it's all well and good for someone to go in front of a camera and say what they believe but then you've got the people behind the scenes preparing them with the topics what is topical for the day what is behind those news stories actually dissecting kind of the truth from what from a void of fake news sometimes you've got to actually dissect what is really happening behind this news story, so for that what I really learned from my experience doing that and also with talk tv as well where I was working as a digital content producer is actually how much work goes on behind the scenes in unveiling the truth in actually getting all of that information together so the presenters are best prepared to deliver the news to the audiences as well.

So they do work incredibly hard. And I think for me, I'm very kind of passionate about the media industry, how it all works. And I didn't want to be someone who was just in front of the camera. I definitely wanted to learn what was going on behind the scenes. How could I be best involved as well?

So having both of those experiences, it really opens your eyes to how the media world actually works. And for me, it's incredibly insightful.

Well, looking forward to seeing what comes from AussieWire. I will relearn it for AW.today. I will get there eventually.

But maybe just one final thought. When you look at, I guess, the media landscape, each country is slightly different. We've talked about kind of the control, also the issues. But I guess the other media outlets that are available in the U.S., the media world, I think, sorry, the podcast world is completely saturated. There are so many people, everyone. What can I do? I can do a podcast. Okay. And in the U.K., it's quite different. There isn't, there are, I guess, fewer people or fewer players, fewer organizations actually speaking truth. What is it like in Australia? Yeah.

So as I said we've got like Sky News Australia are not ruled over by off-com rules which means they have more freedom to actually speak their minds and I think as well with the outlet I'm currently working for and helping to develop we don't have those same restrictions either I think this is something that we kind of see on an international level where people are too nervous to speak up and I don't think everyone necessarily has to speak up I think that we should should be supporting those who are able to, to actually get that truth, get that news out.

And there are people who work incredibly hard behind the scenes in ensuring that what the public is hearing is truthful and, incredibly informative.

The research that they have to go through in kind of dissecting all of that often takes a good amount of time, like a really long time for them.

And sometimes they just have to, when something nothing breaking actually comes up they have to all work like work even twice as hard to get all of that ready and out there so I think a lot of people you've got a lot of people in the front of the camera and behind the scenes as well working incredibly hard for those people who can't I think get yourself educated, support the people who are doing good work share them with the people around you who are also interested as well and even if there's small things that you could do yourself in your local community to make a difference and that even if it's something that positively impacts one person that's going to you know that's going to make a great difference for them and even whether it's big or small everyone has the power to make a difference, so you don't have to be starting a podcast or in front of a camera to actually be doing something good for the world, there are many other ways that you can get involved as well

Absolutely and I really appreciate coming on and I'm so glad your first six months have gone so well and with this new venture and AW Today, looking forward to watching that but thank you so much for coming on sharing your experiences of Down Under

Thank you so much for having me.