Ep 52 - How Tomasz started Frames Magazine & community during the pandemic by focusing on his vision and taking it one step at a time

Hello Wicked Hunters, 

Happy New Year to you and we're kicking off the new year with Tomasz - Founder of Frames Magazine. 

Tomasz Trzebiatowski is a photographer and independent publisher. Aside from FRAMES, he is also the editor-in-chief of the FujiLove Magazine for users of the Fujifilm X and GFX camera systems. His photographic interests lie predominantly in fine art, music, and street photography. He is also a classical pianist.

If you want to learn more about Frames Magazine, you can go to:

FRAMES Magazine: www.readframes.com
FRAMES Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/framesmagazine/
FRAMES Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/frames_magazine/

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0:00  
Trade started parallel with COVID. Now, when it comes to steps, you know, I had the vision and I made the decision myself is it's just gonna happen. So step by step learning what was there to be to be learned and overcoming any kind of obstacle which was there, you know, like looking for printers day by day, step by step, I was following my plan. And the only thing which was kept me going was my very clear vision.

0:34  
Here, we get hunters Welcome back to The Art of Photography podcast, where we share artist journey and share how photography has given us hope, purpose and happiness. And today, we have a special guest from someone who not only passionate about photography, but he built a platform where photographers can share their photography with more people out there. And you know, as artists, that's how much we love to share our photography. So I'd like to welcome Tomash from frames magazine, and he built this community as well as you know, the publication. And it is one of the reason why I want to bring him here. So too much how are you? You know, thank you for coming into the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you.

1:25  
Yeah, thank you so much, Stanley. I'm excited myself. Thank you so much for inviting me over and yeah, very happy to, you know, to talk about whatever your listeners would like would like to know, you know about the story about about the magazine, so on. And Greetings, everyone from snowy, snowy Switzerland. That's where I'm based. It's finally getting cold over here. And also the the real winter is taking over. Yeah, getting ready for Christmas.

1:54  
sounds incredible. You know, most people I'm here in Bali, and I used to live in Canadian Rockies for two and a half years. And most people think Bali is paradise, but I'm missing the winter so much.

2:07  
Especially if you're living close to the Rockies. Yeah, it's like a similar surroundings in a way, you know, to to some parts of Switzerland or the other way around to Switzerland is similar to some parts of Canada. So yeah, 100 Definitely. Yeah, I would prefer to be sitting in valley right now to be honest.

2:27  
Well, you know, it's really cool. Like, I come across frames magazine from my mentee, actually, he, he introduced me, it's like, Oh, you gotta check out this Facebook group and the publication. So I got into there. And now it's just, I was just blown away by what you are doing in the, for the community. So before we get to all that, right, we're going to talk a lot about, you know, what, what you're doing, what your vision, what you're planning and so forth. But before we got all that, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what attracted you to photography and what keep you from, you know, keep doing this? Because we all know, photography is not the easiest profession to earn from.

3:14  
Yeah, well, so I don't even know where to start, right. Like, every time somebody asked me about, tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, the problem is, the years are passing. I'm getting older. So this little bit is getting bigger. But yeah, okay, let me let me try to put it in a nutshell, you know, I am a educated musician, classical, classical pianist, you know, so that's what I started. That's what I learned. And that's what I still do. up to these days today. You know, I'm still working part time at the local college of music here in Lucerne, Switzerland. So I was into, you can say, into arts, you know, forever. I mean, I was into into music. My father was introducing me to, you know, paintings photography as well, you know, so the kind of art in general was was over, always around. But it wasn't until I was I was 25 I will say, when I really discovered photography, you know, I was busy practising the piano, this takes a lot of your time, you know, but, in in the year 2000, something special happened. I I got the chance to travel to Antarctica, as a musician, as a classical pianist. You know, I went on a on a cruise on a two weeks cruise and I was supposed to play you know, for the guests, make some music. And that was when I for the very first time in my life, you know, both had both a camera photographic camera and my own camera, because I thought you know, going to Antarctica it's a good enough reason to have a camera with yourself right? So that's, that's when I bought my very, very first camera and In the beginning, you know, I went on the trip, I came back started learning about everything. What's involved, you know, digital, this was a digital cameras, camera, right? So I learned some analogue photography before from my father, he was he was into it, but my very own camera was digital. And if I remember correctly, I think it was three megapixels camera or something like this was Canon PowerShot G two, I remember, remember exactly what it was. But anyway, I was hooked. You know, I came back, I immediately got excited about capturing what I see in front of me on, on images on on, you know, on photographs. Yeah, rest is history, you know, and I keep going to today, I somehow have this passion have this bag in me that I love to translate to capture to interpret what I see in front of me in a photographic way. You know, it's just, it excites me to these days. So, so far not able to stop I am not planning of stopping anytime soon.

6:12  
Yeah, wow, that's, that's an inspiring story. And, you know, I always enjoy hearing where they first come across photography, and a lot of time, it's about the landscape, the travel or capturing a moment in itself. Now, I can know that you're a musician. Wow. That's just incredible. I know, I always wanted to learn piano, but I find it too difficult. I don't have the finger coordination. So I, uh, wow. I didn't admire that very much.

6:42  
Yeah, and you know, and just to add to this, maybe where I draw this inspiration still to these days, it's very often for me about this. This interaction between music and photography, you know, being out there photographing, I don't listen to music on my headphones, you know, like, when I photograph some people do to get into the zone, right? But, but I very often sing about tunes, or, you know, remember in a specific pieces, you know, of music in my mind when photographing, and it kind of it kind of, you know, inspires me in the moment, or, like, changes the mood of how I see things. And also the opposite. When I play piano, I very often think about music and kind of sink in, in a way of, you know, images, colours, you know, see particular scenes, right. So it's kind of as what's the word symbiotic, you know, kind of experience, I mean, music, photography, it's, they fuel each other, in my case, and I'm really enjoying this process.

7:55  
That's really interesting. I know, I've come across, you know, how music can change. And this was in, in an example of post processing, how to edit how to, you know, approach your photography, once you have it there. And a friend of mine kind of introduced it as like, man, you should try to listen to different music and see how you feel about your photos. While you listen to that. So I'm actually quite intrigued about this, right? Since you're, you're an actual professional musician, as well as photographer, how, when you when you go out there, and like you say, right, you go out there you you see a scene that you want to photograph? How do you pick the music to connect you to that scene? And you know, once you pick that, do you ever change kind of the music to get a different perspective of the same scene?

8:51  
Yeah, so in my case, just like I mentioned before, it's a bit different. So I don't actually listen to music. When I photograph I don't I don't, you know, have any kind of headphones or I don't choose tracks. It's rather in my case, it's it's rather some engineer. It's kind of but it's, I imagine it, then it's a very natural process. I don't like three plan. You know, I will be thinking about Mozart, you know, whether it's something that happens in a in a in the moment. It's a very, what's the word? It's like a mutual influence kind of mechanism. On this

9:28  
moment, ah, yeah,

9:28  
it can also happen that I, you know, let's say I come to you or, you know, I go into, I don't know, Indonesian mountains. Right. And, and the scene itself, provokes, or like, you know, resonates in a special way with a certain, you know, something comes to mind. And in my case very often connects to a specific genre or even specific piece of music, you know, and then I kind of keep going down this rabbit hole. Right, and kind of very special artistic effects are like, you know, impressions a very special reaction start occurring. And it's like a spiral. Kind of

10:11  
Yeah, I mean, you know, when I say play the music, I'm not saying in a literal sense, but you know, in your head can opinion imagining, yeah, that's yeah, that's, that's really cool that you do that and, you know, it's something that I, I'd like to explore as well to get that creativity going. So tell us a little bit about your photography, what is what is your photography and what you're trying to achieve, like, what you photograph and what you are trying to achieve when you are taking those photos. So

10:45  
I, you know, it's kind of difficult even to myself to always to put the finger or like to define and I know, it's, you know, applies to many photographers, like, for, for a long time I was, quote unquote, like, we do very often searching right for my own style for my own. Today, I don't define it anymore as searching, even though I'm still I'm, I'm reacting to too many different things. And it's mainly I think, in a visual way, in a, you know, I'm reacting to shapes to lines to shadows to, and it does not matter so much. In my case, if it's a landscape in front of me, or if it's a piece of furniture, or if it's a human being or an animal, you know, it's kind of a you know, in any given sin. So my photography, predominantly, when I find time to do it, these days, I'm also getting frustrated, you know, these these days with, with so many tasks, and I'm really trying hard to plan my photography time, by my own photographic time. But when I, when I go for it, you know, I, I am this kind of photographer, I go out in there, I go out there and I and I started observing, I started observing the surroundings wherever I happen to be right. And I'm kind of looking for, for those special people know juxtapositions of lines of light. So in the meantime, create the images I create, and I can share some with your viewers at some point, if it's possible, you know, are kind of abstract, I like black and white a lot. So the kind of abstract, but they're not really abstract, because this is a representation of the real world in front of me. But it's very often, you know, small fragments of buildings, it's not the entire scenes, it's not the entire landscape scene is a, it's a very tight crop, or is a very tight, you know, part of the scene or is a very, it's a, it was a corner of a building with some cracks in the wall, you know, and this creates this new life by itself in itself, you know, this new kind of being, which I am fascinated by, so, you would have to look at a few images, it's difficult to define, but I am basically in some way. Yeah, fascinated by any kind of visual creations, you know, being the nature creations or human being creations, and I'm documenting those little details.

13:15  
Yeah, so I actually, you know, the reason why I asked that question is because I saw some of your photograph. And the way you frame your photograph is just incredible, right? I think there was one photo where it was it was, it was a glasses or something like that. And then you play with the shadow and the highlights. And it turns out, totally different than you know, the way you sit. So it's incredible how you observe, and you look at what is in front of you, and you create something that is totally different, you know, out of it. Now, one thing that I'm interested, you know, like you say you'd like to do landscape, you'd like to also do a lot of this abstract, as well as intimate photograph of wherever you go, you know, whether it's a glasses that you wear, or the buildings around your city or the nature. So how does the, you know, share with us the feeling that you get when you capturing those different moments? Is that does that spark the same type of emotion? Or is it different and give you a different satisfaction altogether?

14:28  
This Excellent question. I mean, I have never been asked this question, but it's really excellent, because I just love you know, thinking about these kinds of things and talking about it. But it will not be the easy answer, of course, because it's so personal. And so, you know, it's happening on such an intuitive level. But I love this challenge of trying to put those things into words. So thanks for letting me Yeah. Yeah,

14:54  
I really do enjoy asking a really hard, you know, thoughtful question. I love to make up So I

15:00  
absolutely love it. You know, that's, that's what it's all about, you know, when, when you really get into photography, right? I think you asked about the emotions Yeah, or emotion I'm experiencing. On one level, this is definitely some kind of a similar emotion, you know, when I'm in the landscape or if I'm on a, in a parking lot, you know, and looking at some lines on the, on the floor and cracks, it's on some level, it's a similar thing I am. And I can basically getting goosebumps, you know, it happens is like, you know, where I, where a certain set of elements in front of me, starting or falling into place for me, you know, for for what I am kind of reacting to, and those elements, those lines start, start creating this, this, this new form, or this new, you know, kind of scene or so, it can be, you know, a range of mountains with sun rays, and, you know, shadows of trees, but it can be also a couple of stones in the parking lot, you know, on a on a white line, you know, whatever it might be my emotional, this great question, how would I, I think I would just, I mean, the simplest words, I would, I would describe my emotion as excitement. Because, you know, he's getting goosebumps is like, I think his fascination is purely a fascination I get about the surrounding world, you know, and on a deepest, deepest level, I think it's some kind of thankfulness for that I am able to experience this kind of fascination. You know, so many people work, we know it, so many people walk their, their streets, you know, the, you know, the cross the same, you know, cross, you know, crossing the look at the same buildings every single day. And they just ignore them, because, but I keep looking, I can be walking, you know, I spend most of my time at home, of course, and walking the same streets every day. I always keep looking, I always keep discovering different stuff. Because I look so close, I've tried to look, I'm not even trying, it's just happening. This is who I am, right? So it's difficult to explain. And then when I noticed this thing, this one thing and you know, when I just have to grab my camera and start experimenting, and you know, working, so people are looking at me, it happens, is it some kind of a weirdo, you know, because I always my camera down on my knees or whatever it might be, you know, looking for, for those elements. So I think it's this combination of fascination with those visual elements, but also kind of like a, what's the word great gratefulness for, for being this way for being able to notice those things? So it's quite a big pointer. It's quite a deep emotion. I mean, it's quite a Yeah, to be honest, it's quite quite a big part of my life.

18:05  
I can totally resonate with that. You know, like when you find something that really intrigued you, and it really not only make you grateful, being able to enjoy that moment, but also energise you, and I think that's that's what passion is, right? And that's why we love doing this, because it energises and makes us excited, like you say so. Now,

18:27  
you also you also use, like, excellent where I was missing these words energising me. Yeah, absolutely the same. It's yeah, when this moment happens in the morning, let's say my whole days, like, on fire, I'm energised is perfect. But you also described it in a perfect way here. Exactly.

18:47  
And that's, that's really cool. I mean, you know, I think a lot of us feel very similar emotion. Now, one thing, you know, I'd love to go into some of your, what you've done with the community. But we're just one more question before we get into that, that really fascinates this, about your approach is that so Okay, as a landscape photographer, for example, like you know, I travel I do landscape and adventure and it's, it's a lot easier to get drawn or to see the things that you know, attract your eyes, right, because it just there it jumps on it. There is an aurora boom, it's you know, attracts your eyes, there is an ice cave, there is a mountain it's right there right. Now, what you do in some of your photography is totally different though. Right? It's, it's something that is, I'd like to say the grandest thing in the grandest detail in the bigger scheme. So in the big big world, everywhere, everything where most people are looking for that big thing. You look for the small detail that actually is very intriguing, very powerful that can create an evoke emotion like what you do. Right? So what? What intrigues you about those smaller detail? Like, you know, what intrigued you about the shape what intrigued you about the cracks, like what attracted you, like, you know, what attracted you to the smaller details, like it attracted us to the mountains or the stars and so forth?

20:27  
Well, so, yeah, very interesting, because but, you know, it's the discovery kind of thing, because, let me give you an example, if I have never been to Indonesia, right. So if I think about going there visiting you, and you know, you may be showing me some amazing places, I can already feel excitement, because I haven't seen it yet. It will be new to my eyes, it will be new to my senses to everything, right. So automatically, I will be also photographically triggered, I mean, this is I would love to capture it, you know, in the way I am experiencing this place, right. But I think what I learned, and when I say learned, part of his part of it is, of course, in some way planted in ourselves, you know, we, we have this dose, we have this interest, we have this passion somewhere there, it's I think it's in each of us somewhere there, but it doesn't serve us every single time. So, you have to kind of practice it, you have to once you realise this moment, you have to you know, so you asked about those little details, for example. Why should a little detail a crack in a straight, you know, creating some kind of shapes creating some kind of pattern, whatever, which I have never seen before? Why should it excite me less than a, you know, line of, of a range of mountain range, which I have never seen before. It's just, it's just a different element. It's a big, big landscape scene. But this is a small thing here somewhere hidden, you know, at the corner of my street. But by itself, it's a visual representative, it's a visual. It's a visual, I don't I'm looking for a word, you know, it's a visual. I mean, it's an image, it's a sin, which, which is out there in front of me. For me, it becomes almost equally exciting. Because I have never seen it before. Wow, look at this crack, look at those lines, what's this, and look at those mountings. So for me, it kind of the line got blurred, I can't differentiate anymore, I don't have to I'm and I'm happy, I don't have to because I get excited about this few stones on the street. And I get excited about the mountain range in Indonesia, which I haven't ever seen before. So I think it's, it's working in a similar way. You know, what I also want to add is very often when, you know, pointing a camera at something, or photographing something in particular, you know, being again, this mountain range, or some kind of object in front of me, and I probably, many of us have the same feeling it's, of course, we pointed the camera in a certain direction at a certain element. But I feel like what's coming into this final photograph is also everything else, which we are experiencing, you know, with our body with our senses, smells, you know, touch, wind, whatever it might be. So it's all around me, which inspires me and tries to I'm trying to convey this feeling, you know, which is living inside of me, you know, based on all of those elements and essences, I'm trying to convey in this, you know, four by three kinds of frame, which I am, which I'm composing. Yeah, I could go forever and always, but you can sense it's kind of, it's a big kind of experience. It's a very complex experience. But I can have it exactly in a grand, amazing scene, you know, of one of the, you know, most exciting landscapes in the world or whatever. But I can have it also in my bathroom, right. Yeah, that's, yeah,

24:25  
that's incredible. And I think, you know, a lot of photography personalities anyway, because of the social media doesn't appreciate that smaller detail doesn't appreciate that point of discovering something new, you know, and I know like a lot of, for example, like a lot of people, a lot of people that wanted to learn from me, they say it's like, well, you know, I can't travel like you do, but you just show how you could have the same excitement for the same passion and energy and energy From the things that could be around a corner of your house or even in your house, and, you know, like, the word travel doesn't necessarily mean you have to fly to the other side of the world and really love

25:13  
Yeah, we tend to forget that some of the most famous, most respected and, you know, photographers in the history of photography. And you can really start with names, of course, like, like Cardi B song, he was walking the streets of his town, right? He was not travelling to Venezuela, and you know, Fiji, and wherever he was walking the streets of his town, and he's in the history books, because he was seeing things around his neighbourhood. Right, and capturing in a way that we just, we start drooling when looking at those images. And he was for sure excited about the things you know, so just take the camera, start walking your street, but start looking, you will see things which you have never noticed before, because you you were dreaming about travelling to Japan or to Korea or China, you know, so yeah, photograph, photographs are everywhere, right? Photographs are really everywhere, and you can start also crafting your own visual language, just on the streets of your of your own neighbourhood, you know, you will be really surprised. So, yeah, I think I

26:31  
really, I really, really love what you just said there. Because, you know, I think the social media and not just you know, because now we're in the attention, time, right, where everything has to be fibrin, and ground and all that stuff. So we forget the small details that make a big difference. And you just, you know, kind of show how even the smallest thing could make a big difference in your photography. So I really enjoy that. Thanks for sharing that. Too much. Cool. So, you know, so when I come across your community, you know, your, your magazine, I see something different, you know, it's not the type of things that I came across, in, in normal photography. World or, you know, place and I'd like to hear a little bit more about what inspired you to start frames? And what is your vision and mission with the frames magazine?

27:37  
I think yeah, so we are starting to touch on this on this community aspect, you know, of my activities. And, you know, like, in a nutshell, what we have been just talking about for the last, you know, 20 minutes you can see how excited I'm getting how, how, how happy I am to, to, to keep sharing those ideas, you know, I don't know now with your listeners on a, you know, at home with friends, when we're having coffees, and you know, I get the same I get, you know, energised exactly and excited and I think at some point, you know, in my life I do, I realised that I have this urge to, to share this excitement, to open people up to you know, to inspire them to, to exactly to start telling them you know, about the possibilities, you know, which are endless when it comes to working on your own art, you know, exactly in your own surroundings, you know, to do, to unlocking to to unlock their potential potential, you know, artistic potential, and so on, so forth. So, at some point I realised, I, I'm also enjoying it, and you know, and I also realised that people really start reacting, you know, to, to my own excitement. So, I think that's when it all started that I realised that I, you know, I'm, you know, I open to, I started a Facebook group, basically, yeah, I think it was the very beginning of frames, you know, I started a Facebook group and started to you know, interacting with other members, you know, talking about the photographs, sharing mine, and so on and so forth. So I think my passion to photography got combined with this urge with this need to, to interact with other people and you know, and kind of growing together because I also learned so much, you know, from from other members, it's just, it's just amazing and, you know, and it's an ongoing process and that's how it started the community, you know, the groups on internet and then in the end, I also felt like I wanted to give those people this outlet, you know, to present their work in a in a printed fashion which is, you know, you would again, think today in the world. to social media and all digital, I wanted to also show them because I also print myself quite a lot, you know, and I was always really happy, really fascinated with how the images, you know, end up looking on paper, or you know, or when you hang them on your wall. So I wanted also to show them this, you know, not everything is happening on your, on our computer screens, try this, try showing to, you know, send me your images, maybe we can print them in my, in the magazine, and so on, so forth. So, yeah, you know, just, I guess these are those elements, you know, passion plus this edge of connecting, you know, like we are now you know, like, again, now we are connecting with your community, you know, to to your podcast, it's just amazing what, and of course, technology is helping us today in a crazy way. I mean, we you are in Valley, right? Yeah, I'm in Switzerland, people listening in New York, it's just crazy. We forget how thankful we should be to, you know, when I think about my parents life, the first few decades, such things didn't exist. It's just insane. Right? So yeah, we are blessed, and then we should be really thankful. And then I think I'm kind of, yeah, using those channels to, to, to connect to spread the love, you know, right to to photography.

31:24  
Yeah, that's incredible. You know, I, I love seeing photos on the screen and social media. But when I print those photo, it's a different feeling right? When you can see it and touch it and see it on your wall, I have a few on my wall here as well, you know, and it's just a different feeling. And I really enjoy it. And I know exactly how you feel. So I really like the idea of printing your photos in magazine and so forth. And I think that's really cool. So, you know, once you kind of build that community, and you come up with this idea of, you know, what, maybe there is another way of getting people out of the computer, even for just you know, a few minutes or you know, an hour or two and going through some of those art in an old fashioned way where people have more time. Because I think one of my biggest problem about consuming art in social media is not the screen itself. But the attention span, like people seems to just scroll and stop appreciating you like, oh, yeah, cool, or, you know, nice, great, you know, but it's, they never really stopped, right? Because there's always going to next note, there's going to be next notification. Next, pop next, whatever it is right with the technology. But when you look at it in an old fashioned way, you kind of switch off and you know, when you look at an art in a magazine, or in a printed fashion, you have the ability to kind of isolate yourself in the art itself. And that's what I love about it. So, when you come up with this idea, right? Oh, you know what, we should share these magazines and stuff like that. What? I'd like to hear a little bit more about what it did journey on getting to where it is right now. Because right now, you're on what fourth edition?

33:27  
This is 10th edition we are working on has had a crazy time. socializations Yeah.

33:35  
So and so how do you go from you know, having simply just a community of people who passionate about photography, to having a 10th edition quarterly edition. So that's almost three years now you're coming into the three years mark, and that's just incredible. So how did how did that journey go? And what are some of the challenges that you came across to get to where you are right now.

34:04  
You also needless to say, you know, translating an idea to reality, it requires certain steps, you know, determination and but, you know, division of the printed photography magazine was pretty strong in you know, I had it in me for for for some more years, you know, and the whole frames magazine story started actually when the when the pandemic, you know, hit the world. I had more time, right, more more time at home, but also I felt and you know, after having some conversations with people, I felt it's a, funnily enough, I mean, not the worst moment to try and to do it because, you know, people were looked at homes so we couldn't travel and photograph as much as we would like. But we at the same time, or even more, we were then we are looking for some sources of inspiration, you know, for some to keep us here on this on this is, you know, our levels of excitement and artistic you know, you know, having those influences. So, yeah, great started when, you know, in parallel with COVID Now when it comes to steps, you know, I had the vision and and I made the decision myself is just, it's just gonna happen. So, step by step learning what was there to be to be learned, you know, and overcoming any kind of obstacle which was there, you know, like looking for printers, learning how to, you know, translate the digital files into a right print profiles, you know, and sending them to printers, and then looking for distribution, day by day, step by step, just, you know, I was following my plan. And the only thing which was, you know, which kept me going was my very clear vision, I just, I just pre visualised this, this magazine in my hand. And step by step I was, I was just going after it, you know, and it was not always the easiest thing, of course, in the beginning, you know, you have to pull it off, you have to organise everything you have to make, make sure that you are not going bankrupt. Along the process, right, this is a printed magazine, they are completely different costs when it comes to printing. And, you know, my vision was also going really for the, for the best possible quality, which I, you know, I could possibly afford, you know, and the photographs had to look just beautiful, you know, we are giving each each photograph in the magazine, it's dedicated page. So it's, that, that ties nicely to what you were talking about before, you know, we want people looking at the photograph to slow down, right? We, you're looking at one image at a time, it has space, you can concentrate on it. So you turn the page, you know, and it starts speaking to you, because there is exactly, there's no distractions and no notifications popping up from the printed pages. You have to sit down somewhere, you know, find your corner, you know, have a glass of wine, maybe or you know, have a coffee, just be careful not to spill it and you start enjoying it but enjoying an image one, one in one photograph at a time, right? And it's a big difference. So you can start this. And of course, the format is bigger than on a, let's say, on an iPhone or on a phone. Right? So it's a completely different way of interacting, interacting with a photograph. Yeah, so yeah, step by step, you know, and yeah, many hours, many sleepless nights. And here we are. So but today, I'm really really happy with it. And so and so seems to be many other many, you know, of our subscribers and readers. So, it's possible. Yeah, it's possible just and, and it absolutely applies to everything, what what your own, you know, personal vision might might be, you just have to, we tend to think about the goals right? Very often, we have a goal. And we, we fixate on this goal, but you know, like with with every other goal when when you want to walk from point eight, A to Z, or that right? There is B, C, D, E, F G on the way which you can skip, nobody can jump so far right? You have to make 26 steps from A to Zed is it 26 Either way, but no. Just make your small steps. Keep making each step you know at a time and you will get to your goal. That's it. Wow, that's my This is nothing. But this is nothing you know, it's nothing. It's not a huge discovery of myself, you know, but I also had to learn it. But today I know if I said any other goal for myself, I know it will take time, effort and those steps and that's it. The problem is so many of us give up after B because it feels difficult, it takes a bit long, you know or maybe there's something distracting. And then we get frustrated because we don't get to the goal but the satisfaction of getting to the Zed point is huge. And you know the feeling of accomplishment and you know believe in yourself and in your vision. And then you look back and look at those Yeah, exactly. Like you know asked me about all those small steps and they were there. I didn't you know, send out a few 1000s of magazines that first week I did it right. But it needs this time and those steps along the way. No other no other way to achieve it.

39:58  
That is so inspiring. That is so in aspiring and you know, I guess with this again the era of right now it's all about instant right? Everything is instant you you you buy from Amazon, it's their next day you you look at, you post something you get likes right away and along the line, I think we we forgot something very important in our life that the process the journey to get there. And this is so inspiring, you know what you mentioned here? Because, well, first of all, you started a physical product during pandemic where it's very difficult right to go out there physically. And most people are studying virtual stuff, and you study the physical stuff. Second thing, I have printed photo books myself, I've you know, I have searched for not only a good quality, but an affordable one to be, you know, to so that it's profitable, and all that stuff. And I know how much effort that comes, you know, the search, the discovery, the different bits and pieces, and you know, where you try to show the importance of the quality to the printer because they just print it, right, they don't understand art. So when I saw your, your, what you do and what you put together, I was very intrigued, because, you know, I know how difficult to put that together. But you know, hearing your story here is just incredible. Because you're absolutely right, we have to go to the A, B and C and D and you know, so forth. And maybe you skip a letter, but you can't skip, you know, 10 letters that well.

41:45  
And also, you know, and one one last thing, I mean, we tend to forget, or like get kind of maybe scared or discouraged by by exactly by the process itself. But we tend to forget that this entire process is also an enjoyable thing. It's not like it, okay, depends on your approach, but it I was not suffering, I was enjoying this process, I was enjoying the challenges and efforts, you know, sure, if I will be suffering physically will be different thing. But you know, if you have division, you if you want to bake a cake, you have to bake the cake, you have to look for ingredients, you have to go shopping, you have to start mixing them, you have to bake it, people are usually enjoying, right. So it's the sales, we don't forget that the process itself might be NT usually is an enjoyable thing if we are working towards the goal we are excited about. So but somehow we have this nature that we often get discouraged by the amount of steps, right? Because we think oh my God, so many things to work on, that each of those things, each of those steps is enjoyable, if it's something you enjoy doing. So don't let those you know, like little steps and dip the entire process and timeline. discourage you it's Yeah. And I think

43:17  
that's, that's very inspiring. And I want to I want to kind of elaborate on and touch a little bit more into that, that that what you just mentioned there. So, you know, like a lot of us really, like you say we want you we have a goal, and we have this vision and we want it to happen right away. Like everybody wouldn't happen right away, right? It's just your nature. That's that's okay. But you say something that's, I think, very important, right? That along the line, there are process, and there are ways to enjoy the process. And you know, one thing that I want to get your take on is think we can recognise that not everything that we need to do from A to Zed is going to be enjoyable, but you manage to find the good and enjoy it anyway. So one thing that I'd like to get your opinion on or your wisdom on is how can people do that? Right? When they going when they have a vision in mind when they want it to go to that? And they're currently at A or C or you know, G how do they enjoy the each one of the step, the journey to get there so that they don't give up so that they don't get discouraged so that they keep going and push themselves forward to get to their goals.

44:41  
So I think the well this is, again, a great question, not an easy answer, because you know, everybody functions differently and so on so forth. And every project is different, bigger, smaller, you know, but okay, if we if we if we like to break any kind of process into those steps you're starting at a Let's say you get to be, first of all, you have to give yourself a really strong pat on the back that you have to be because you know, 90% of people don't get to be really like nine. Most most of the people working on similar maybe are dreaming about similar projects or goals. They don't even start. It's a bit sad. I would love to encourage encourage those people to to you know, to go on and but it's the fact because most there are so many I'm unconvinced, there's so many amazing ideas in the world, they are not even getting started on. So nobody gets makes it to be. If you make it to be you should celebrate. You know, let's say you want to make a photography book. So what you did today, you took a piece of paper, you wrote seven ideas, and you sketched the cover of your book, you should celebrate 90% of people didn't even do this this step. And I think in turn, it will encourage you to okay, what's the what's the C step? And suddenly you are at F and K, you know, people saw a really Yeah, celebrate little steps along the way. Tell about them. Tell about the yo yo your family, your friends, you know, whatever. You know, I sketched my book today on a piece of paper looks amazing. I'm so excited. Yes, you should be. Because you 99% of other people dreaming about the book didn't sketch them, their book on the on the piece of paper, it's huge. I tell you, let's think about it this way. And if you manage, and you know, every next step, when you accomplish it, it will fuel you, I guarantee it will inspire you to go on. And in a way, okay, this might be the point you were asking about. And in a way, every next of those steps gets easier. Because you start believing in yourself, you start celebrating it, you start getting more excited, you start getting closer to your goal, you know. So then like you say, maybe you can skip one letter, but you can skip you know, 25. But if you get closer to the goal, you get even more excited, right? It's like we are running a marathon and you see the goal. You can be exhausted, but you will keep running right. So yeah, that's it. I think that's it, you know, but and I think you are going to we're going to actually ask me about the end at the end of the of the podcast, you know, to the disk device, so I will keep it so I will keep it to the end of the episode.

47:56  
Yeah, that's I mean, that's, that's perfect. You know, it's, it's something, I really, I'm very thankful that you brought that up, because I feel I went through that period of, you know, never, always focusing on the lack, right, you get to be you get to see you get to D but the thing that I think about is that, yes, I get there, but I still have all of the steps that I haven't got there. And I think most people kind of stuck on that bit. And it discouraged them. So 100% I'm so grateful that you brought it up. And I think it's very important that the listeners out there hear this because it is very true. You know, like, like you say you you build up a momentum from your little wins. But you really need to reward yourself from from doing that. And a lot of us forget that the small steps are a big MC are the one that makes a big difference. So very well put, you know, I really enjoyed that. Thanks a lot of time, you know, for putting that true, but you need money that you say that, you know, you're saving, there's less wisdom, where can I come into the one hour mark, and we're gonna get to your wisdom right now. But one thing that I want to touch before we get into that is that now you're developing an app right for your community and for people and you have also you putting together a group of photographer and you know, in the form of photo club, right. So just give us a little bit a little bit background on how do you feel that the app and photo club can help you. You know, deliver your vision through through this through this platform. Because at the end of the day, all of this is just a platform, right? Whether it's a Facebook or Instagram, but the way we We use it is up to us as human being as Creator as a visionary. So, what have you got envision? And how do you vision people use the app, as well as you know, being part of the club can help you reach that vision.

50:20  
So, yeah, just briefly, so everything ties, you know, into, to back to this idea of community. And because because I think about frames as a community, you mentioned it also few times. We were working on mobile photography app. And it might sound now a bit contra intuitive, you know, coming back to the idea of, you know, photography belonging on paper, but just to make things clear, of course, frames photography, we know printed quarterly magazine is the is the kind of main pillar of everything, what we are, you know, about, at Francis about this is we are the most proud of, you know, the printed magazine, the idea of mobile application started kind of in those, you know, weeks or months, where, where Instagram was getting some kind of critique, and maybe still getting, you know, from the photography, photographers community, you know, when it comes to the algorithms, or the idea that they now prefer, you know, maybe showing more video in the app than then still photographs. I'm still, you know, actually, to be honest, I'm enjoying Instagram a lot, you know, and I'm also getting connection over there. And in my personal feed, you know, Instagram feed, everything is actually looking pretty, pretty nice, you know, I can't play but I can imagine, maybe based on your location, geographical location, whatever it might be, your Instagram is maybe behaving differently. So anyway, I, of course, I heard about many complaints about from photographers about Instagram. And a week, you know, I came up with the idea of creating a, quote unquote, proper photography app. I mean, Instagram is a great photography app, but it's not per se, a photography app. I mean, it started as a photography app, basically. But what it is today is, is a social media platform, right? Kind of photography heavy, maybe now more video heavy, I don't know, what we are creating is a friend's photography app. And it's a purely and really heavily oriented you know, photography oriented photographer oriented application, we will be having things like portfolios, you know, photo series in it, you will be able to share, you know, you will be able able to export, export your your foot portfolio and share it with with whoever you want via email, you know, or via special link and so on and so forth. But everything ties back to again, to community, the idea is to gather enthusiasts, you know, photography lovers around this app, you know, to be able to also look at people's work and look for people we could be potentially, you know, featuring in the printed magazine, you know, we will be also having a special fit in the app, you know, where we'll be it will be a kind of like a again, like a kind of like a magazine. But you know, of course different from the printed magazine, it will be more informative with articles not on gear, we are not going into gear, there's enough technology and everything is there are some great great platforms out there right. But we will be covering you know, photography, photography, ideas, thoughts, you know, portfolios, conversations with photographers in the app itself. So next to your portfolio, your photo your you know, friends and people you follow their, their work right. And their their feeds, you will have this in app magazine, which will be inspiring you again, so you will have two sides sharing your own work following other people's work but also getting inspiration from from photography related content. Nice things the thing to mention I can mention earlier today is that the application will be completely free of charge. So this is again a nice one a nice bonus here. And at the same time yeah, we are you are right, we are launching what's called a friends photography circle. This is a membership kind of club, you know, you can think about it like as a as a you know, think about your local photography club, does that still exist, where you really go in there and meet friends you know, and start discussing photography, having guest speakers, you know, this will be happening in the, in the friends photography circle, of course, mainly online because we will be international. But we are thinking also about you know, having meetings in the future we are thinking about working towards a friend's photography book, yearly yearly photography book. But again, what's the most exciting about it is, you know, we'll be making friends around the world and you know, hopefully meeting each other in the future, you know, working on exhibitions together and so on and so forth. So, yeah, if I can mention, if it's okay with you, you know, just quickly, it's, it's still possible to, to, to join to apply, you know, to reframes photography circle, you can visit our website, you know, drop me a message to the contact form, and I will, you know, share all the necessary details here. But yeah, many things happening. Yeah, definitely, towards the end of this year.

55:24  
Yeah. Wow, that's, you know, I really love that. And I think one of the things that really intrigued me about the app that you're putting together, when you have it as an idea, still I saw, you know, on the on friends Facebook group, is that, how you're focusing on the immersion to the photography, right, instead of just a scrolling app, like to say, an attention grabbing app, right? You have this the immersion into one photography, with the story with the interaction, and I think it's great, you know, you mentioned about that, like, you know, portfolio and, you know, the interface and stuff like that, and you put it very well there, you know, that it's, it's, it's good to have, I mean, we love the you know, the entertainment part of Instagram and Facebook, and that's what they're moving across to right. But at the same time, we also miss that time where we can connect to a deeper level. And I think that's something that we really miss in this new era. So I really enjoy that. And you kind of couple that with the photo club as well, photo circle, you mentioned now, just quickly, actually, you know, like, before we get into that, I might, I might ask you this, the last question first, and then we get into that now. So it's been really great conversation, I really appreciate having you here. And you've dropped a lot of wisdom, a lot of new perspective, which I think it's really important in our life, right perspectives. Now, what is that one wisdom or one advice that you would give either your younger self or anyone, if they ask, you know, like, Tomash? If there is one advice that you could give me, what would that be?

57:22  
Yeah, so most probably will be the one which I kind of talked about already, but let me like, rephrase it and kind of put it into in a in a shorter, you know, form is, if you have a dream goal idea. You know, you are really, you know, striving to to achieve and, you know, keeps you awake at night, and so on. But you feel a little bit stuck on, you know, maybe overwhelmed with with the whole concept of this of this goal and and make a quick reset in your head and go out and tomorrow, make the first step, make the smallest step towards this goal. Because it can it can really, like, trigger the avalanche. You know, like, I know, and I know it myself and exactly is is the younger me. I was, you know, maybe not courageous enough, maybe doubting my own ideas, and, and some of them never came to fruition, of course, you know, but I learned this lesson and and that's what I apply today. If, if you have an idea or a goal, you have a goal, which of course you believe in, you know, it's a viable goal. But you kind of feel a bit stuck and overwhelmed, maybe scared to go this path, but you really want to want it right, make the first step. It can be one email, it can be one sketch on a piece of paper. But it's one step. You know, it's like avalanche and snow avalanche in in the mountains. A little ball of smoke or you know, a little what's the flake of snow can trigger a huge avalanche, right? Just just make this step and make it tomorrow. Or even better today, right? And you will you will reach your goal. You know, you'll be so much closer to reaching your goal. So that would be it. I think I didn't keep it really short. But yeah, I

59:25  
know, my point. Yeah. I love that. I love how you use the, you know, the analogy of small flake can make and can create an avalanche and I think that's what we're working towards right and being patient to keep making that. Keep trying that small flick until the avalanche happened. That's, that's that's what we want to keep doing until the goal is right in front of us. So thanks a lot for the wisdom. Donation. It was it was incredible. You know I really enjoy that I really enjoy your perspective and the way you see photography and new world. So yeah, like I guess one thing that I want to get to understand why you know the listener might be interested about this as well is share with us a little bit about the photo club when they join you know, what sort of experience they will get to be to be part of the friends community. And you know, how how, how it can help them to appreciate either photography or even improve their photography at one point or another.

1:00:39  
Yeah, so maybe before I mentioned really a little bit in detail what it's all about so just to clarify, I mean, frames magazine when you become a subscriber to frames magazine you are becoming basically a you know, a member of our community. You can also become a member of our community without subscribing who just consult for us on Facebook let's say yes, we have a group and but of course, I encourage you very much to have a look at the magazine it's a different experience you know, it's a printed magazine so when you become a subscriber, you automatically get access to some you know, digital content as well, which is accompanying the printed magazine and is our basic offering and this is what what we are all about. Now the friends photography circle, you know, and it comes up three years after when you know, frames was actually born. It's this most in depth, you know, group of photography enthusiasts, you know, it's something for those people who who really, absolutely want to, you know, study you know, follow learn from from those best photography sinkers, you know, and talkers and, you know, gallery curator, curators, photographers, we will be having this kind of environment within this, you know, friends photography circle. So, when it comes to elements of this, of this of this club, we will be having meetings with those guest speakers, so exactly photographers, museum gallery curators, you know, add other editors and so on so forth, we will be having self curating meetings of the group when we will be looking at each other's photographs, you know, and kind of curating them towards this yearly goal of of publishing a friend's photography book. So being a member, you are kind of guaranteed, you will get your image into this book, right, but we will be working on it together discussing those things, we will be having an open weekly frames cafe, so is a virtual place, which you can pop in once a week, you know, every week, and start making those friends you know, and start making those other enthusiasts from from other places in the world discussing we will be popping in there. Also some guests, it's kind of like a virtual cafe. So, and then of course, we will be having some kind of critic photo critic sessions you know, like being them from from those guests, you know, from the you know, our guest speakers, they will be looking at our photo add members photographs, right, but also discussing them with with each other, right. And then in the end, we are also planning of Yeah, it would be the jewel in the crown, yeah, to, to organise if maybe a few on location meetings of frames clap, you know, in different in different locations around the world, you know, and ideally, also with one of those acclaim photographers, you know, to join us on those meetings. So, again, as you can already feel this is, again, about community, of course, we will be providing our members with all those, you know, lectures, talks, you know, presentations, critiques, but we really want to make sure that friendships are being formed that this photography passion is what starts connecting, you know, and forming new ideas within the club. So the friends photographer, circle will be a club, which will be evolving, naturally formed by ideas and you know, input from all its members, it yeah, pretty sure will be an amazing experience, you know, and, yeah, we'll be lovely. If you some of your listeners, who would, you know, as I said, just drop me a message to the website, and I will be more than happy to serve some more, some more details.

1:04:34  
Fantastic. Yeah, that's, that sounds like an amazing club to be in, you know, like, just listening to what you share and the community that you have on Facebook is, you know, very, very lively, very engaging, and you know, on the other platform as well, as well, as you know, you're creating your own platform. So that's very, all very exciting. Well, too much. You know, thank you very much for being here really thoroughly. Enjoy our chat. and getting to know you better. Now for the listeners who want to get to know you know, the frames magazine yourself as well as the the photo club where the the circle that you're you're putting together for 2023 Where is the best way to get in touch with you.

1:05:20  
So the absolutely best way is just to visit, you know, the frames website. So you can go to read frames.com You know, and then follow the links in the menu, you will, you will find the links to all all the different exactly elements of our platform magazine and the club. You know, there is also many, many articles on the website itself, which we are you know, releasing every couple of days, there is a there is a new piece. So read frames.com. And I think it's the number one, I mean, the best, the best place to to get started with frames.

1:05:55  
Fantastic, yeah, we'll, we'll put some of the link on the comment on the description below. So don't worry, it's all gonna be there. So go to that I'll we'll also put the link to the Facebook group, if you want to be part of the community as well as the the way the contact form in order to get in touch with Tomash. If you want to get, you know, to join the photo club, it's, it sounds like an amazing experience, you know, especially with what we've been through in this recent years, you know, I think it's more than ever we people are realising that, that passion is very important because we it's like a wake up call, right, we finally understand how important our time is that there is no guarantee it's going to be tomorrow. And we never know when it's going to be too late, you know, so? Yeah, I think more than ever, we should focus on our passion and pursue that so well, so much. Thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for being part of the podcast, sharing your journey, sharing your wisdom and well we can hunters, hopefully you enjoy that. That podcast, that conversation, a lot of wisdom dropped there. And don't forget to say hi to Tomash if you enjoy this, you know, give him a sense of appreciation. And please feel free to contact him go to the website and check out what he's been building. It's an absolutely incredible community as well as you know, if you like like Tom, I say if you don't want to be a subscriber yet, then it's okay. Go to the Facebook get involved. Because I can tell you it's a really good community. Well, with that being said, you know, we've been here for a little over an hour now. Thank you for you know, hanging out with us and you know, chilling and I always think about this podcast, like a chill in a coffee coffee cafe. So it's, it's it's great to kind of just hang out with you. Well, thank you, Thomas, for being here. And yeah, we'll we'll keep chatting and we'll keep connecting.

1:08:08  
Yeah, Stanley, thank you so much for having me. It was really great conversation and everybody. Remember about your first step today.

1:08:17  
That is a great advice. All right, we can just don't forget to hit the subscribe button and also leave a review if this is something that you enjoy. But with that being said, I'll see you guys next week.