Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Faith, Freedom, and the Fight for the 1st Amendment: Daniel Mach of the ACLU on Kennedy v. Bremerton, Religious Charter Schools, and Resisting Trump-Era Overreach

2025-06-30

In this timely episode of "Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other," host Corey Nathan speaks with Professor Daniel Mach, Director of the ACLU Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief and adjunct professor of law at the George Washington University Law School. They explore the complexities of First Amendment rights, the historical Scopes Trial, and the fine line between religious freedom and government endorsement of religion. What We Discuss: How Daniel Mach’s passion for First Amendment law began. The ACLU’s app...

What We Discuss:

How Daniel Mach’s passion for First Amendment law began.
The ACLU’s approach to defending speech across ideological lines.
Key legal principles behind landmark cases like Kennedy v. Bremerton.
The modern-day impact of church-state separation rulings.
The importance of defending civil liberties regardless of popularity.

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Dan’s origin story, sparked by a high school paper on the Scopes Trial.
[00:05:00] ACLU’s surprising position in the Boston Christian flag case.
[00:09:00] The real facts behind Kennedy v. Bremerton School District.
[00:23:00] Historical insight into the Scopes Trial and why it still matters.
[00:38:00] Breakdown of the opt-out debate in Mahmoud v. Montgomery County.
[00:48:00] Can a Catholic public school exist? Oklahoma says maybe.
[00:56:00] Concerns about threats to the rule of law.
[01:00:00] How to speak across ideological divides and why it matters.

Featured Quotes:
"Rights for all — the right to speak even hateful things — triggered something in my mind where I thought, yeah, that's the way to go." – Daniel Mach
"If the rules only protect people you like, then those rules are not rules at all." – Daniel Mach
"Part of religious liberty is keeping religion and government separate — not just to protect government, but to protect religion." – Daniel Mach

Resources Mentioned:
ACLU: https://www.aclu.org
Kennedy v. Bremerton: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2021/21-418
Scopes Trial History: https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/scopes-trial
Mahmoud v. Montgomery County: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24-297_4f14.pdf
Oklahoma Catholic Charter School Ruling: https://www.scotusblog.com/2025/05/split-supreme-court-blocks-first-religious-charter-school-in-oklahoma/

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