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Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”
Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”
Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”
Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession- to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”
Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“
Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“
Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”
[00:00:00] <music>
Laura Dugger: Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.
[00:00:17] <music>
Laura Dugger: Do you have a teething baby? Our sponsor today can help. Chew Beads is the original teething jewelry brand for all your baby's teething needs and beyond. Mommy chic and baby safe. Visit them at ChewBeads.com.
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I just want to let you know that there's a portion of this message that contains topics that are not suitable for little ears. Please use discretion when you listen.
Welcome back to part two with Elizabeth Pehrson, who is a loving wife to David, devoted mother to eight kids, and founder of The Exchange in Atlanta, Georgia. And now, we're going to pick up where we left off from our conversation yesterday. [00:01:20]
Here's our chat.
You've already mentioned you had plenty on your plate, but you still sense this stirring from God that there was something else He was calling you to do. You didn't know what it was at first. So will you just take us back through that journey?
Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. About five years ago, I felt that God was asking something of me, that He wanted me to do something. And I just didn't know what it was. So I literally taped the word IT, you know, I-T to my closet wall, and I started praying for it.
I prayed for almost a year and a half. And after about that time, God showed me what it was. I will never forget, I was scrolling Facebook in the carpool line, and I came across a women's event in Franklin, Tennessee, and literally the hair on the back of my neck stood up. And I was like, "I know what it is. That's it."
Basically, I was to create a place for women to just come as you are, explore a different topic each month, we use that to enrich our minds, and then ultimately engage it in the next best step of our lives, whatever that might look like. [00:02:20]
We called it The Exchange because my original hope and vision was that we could sit much like we are here, you know, exchanging ideas and talking and learning and growing from one another. Just like iron sharpens iron, we can sharpen each other.
But really I wanted this to be for all women: Unchurched, churched, faith, no faith, married, single, divorced, kids, no kids, the whole gamut. All are welcome was kind of my mantra and my mindset. Many women, I believe, live their lives stuck on Groundhog's Day, doing the same thing day in and day out. You get up, you have your routine. Next thing you know, you're going to bed at night and you're thinking, what did I even do today? It's just like rote activities and tasks. I really see that it's so easy to do. I find myself doing it unless I'm intentional with my living and my days.
But we just wanted to offer a place for women to come and get filled up. I am a big believer that you can't give what you don't have. So I wanted women to be filled up. I want them to feel loved and I want to inspire women to live on purpose and with intention. [00:03:18]
So I created an event on Facebook. Just "I'm gonna throw it out there and see how many would come." This was in January 1st of 2015. And it was gonna be three weeks later for January 21st that night. And wouldn't you know we had lots of interest and excitement around it but that day we had an ice storm, a sleep storm and school was canceled and power was out. And I just thought, well, that's just like the devil. We're gonna have nobody show up. And I can't believe it."
But we decided that we were gonna go on with the night because it was what we were going to do. And I'll never forget it. We were discussing Brené Brown's The Power of Vulnerability, her Ted Talk and my big hope, my big prayer was 30 women would show up even in the rain and it's late in the snow, and 125 women showed up that night.
Laura Dugger: Wow. They didn't care about the weather.
Elizabeth Pehrson: No, it just showed me how hungry women are just for that connection and for something more.
Laura Dugger: So that was the beginning of 2015. So where is The Exchange now?
Elizabeth Pehrson: We have really grown. The cool thing is that we've outgrown four locations and we are now meeting in Lanier Tech Conference Center, which is just right down the road from my house. [00:04:24] We meet the third Thursday of every month and then we take the summers off. There's usually around 150 to 200 women, some more, some less, just depends on the topic and the night, the time of season, year.
But we have food and drinks and people come and just talk and mingle and get to know each other from about 7:00 to 7:30. Then we have an incredibly funny host. that opens up with games or giveaways or just something fun and entertaining. It usually has something to do with the topic or the content of the night. She's hysterical.
And then after that, I either offer some cliff notes from other people's books or material like I did with the Brené Brown Power of Vulnerability TED Talk. I just call myself the cliff note speaker. I read a couple of books and then I just offer it and present it on that because I realize there's nothing new under the sun. Most women don't have the time or make the time to read, and so this is just a cliffnote version of whatever that book, that material is.
Sometimes we'll bring in a special guest speaker to do a discussion-style interview, but not all the time. But sometimes. But it's super fun.
Laura Dugger: Okay. So you said some women don't have the time to read all of these. You have a very full plate. How do you actually find the time to read these resources? [00:05:31]
Elizabeth Pehrson: Well, as part of getting up early, I can't read at night, I fall asleep. People think, Oh, you just love to read. I really don't. I don't like to sit still. Like I'd love to listen to a book on audio, but then I can't take notes. And so it's been a learned thing for me and to really carve out that time and make the time, make it a priority. Because the truth of the matter is we can all spend time on what we want to spend time if we prioritize it right.
Laura Dugger: And so you found it beneficial enough to overcome [inaudible 00:05:56]?
Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the pros always outweigh the cons. And anything worthwhile is going to be hard. You know, anything. Whether it's diet, exercise, a budget, like any of it, it's going to be hard, but it's so worthwhile.
Laura Dugger: Now let's take a brief break to hear a message from two of our sponsors.
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Laura Dugger: Going back to The Exchange, how have you seen it cause life change in the other women?
Elizabeth Pehrson: You know, if we didn't see any growth or any movement, we wouldn't keep doing what we're doing. But it's hard, too, at the same time, because in a large group like that, it's hard to engage with each woman that comes in the door. [00:08:40] Some come two or three times and don't come back, and some come all the time, but I don't know many of them.
So it's hard because I only hear the stories of people that I either know or maybe somebody that emails me. It might be a stranger that emails me or a friend of a friend. But it's really hard to measure. For example, we did a topic on forgiveness and it was the neatest thing. We saw friendships restored. We were able to see marriages healed.
We did one on the best yes, and we had women for the first time in their life hearing, you know, it's okay to say no. You don't have to say yes to everything. Or hey you know what, you always say no, but if this is your best yes, we want to encourage you to step outside your comfort zone and say yes.
Women have gone back to work, some women have quit their jobs to be with their family because for that season it was their best yes. I don't ever give them their answers. I just say, Hey, whatever's the next best step for you to engage in your life.
We've had some women pursue their dreams. We did one on The Greatest Showman where we explored who are we from that song, This Is Me. It was really eye-opening to me because, believe it or not, most women don't know who they are. [00:09:44] And the exploration of who we are created to be is a win enough for me. It's so rewarding every time that one person comes up and just shares something that's really change their life.
Laura Dugger: Well, and I'm sure that this is difficult to condense down, but can you think back to The Exchange, think about three examples of topics that you've covered, and then just share maybe one or two takeaways that we can be encouraged by from each of those topics that you've covered in the past?
Elizabeth Pehrson: I would love to do that. If it's okay with you, I'll kind of do it almost like a mini exchange, just a glimpse of what we do. It's super interesting. Our two most attended events so far have been on friendship, adult friendship, and sex. You know, go figure on that one.
But our least attended event, which I personally feel like had the most practical wisdom and content of all of our events, was one that we did and titled Ask It. Those are the three that I would like to touch on if that's okay with you.
To go to the adult friendship one, you know, right off the bat, we all know that adult friendships are hard. It seems impossible to be friends with people who hurt us. [00:10:46] But the problem is there are no other kinds of people because we're all human. I think this is why so many people showed up that night.
We explored Shasta Nelson's book, Frientimacy. Basically, frientimacy is a combination of friendship and intimacy. And she offers such great insight and a very fresh new perspective on friendship. She talks a lot about how women are lonely. And she said, many women don't want to admit that they're lonely because they feel like, oh my goodness, there's something wrong with me.
She said, no, no, no, no, no, that's not it. Loneliness simply means that we have the capacity for more connection. And I love that definition because instantly everyone lets down their guard and go, okay, I'm normal. It's okay. Yes, I do have more capacity for connection.
We learned and studied that night that meaningful friendships aren't found. We sometimes think that you fall into them or we stumble upon them, but really they're developed. We talked about the five circles of friendship, and I didn't even know there was such a thing, but it is so accurate.
And so I wanted to quickly go over those five things because they're super helpful. She says there's five circles, five rings of friendship. The first ring is contact friends. [00:11:48] And you think about people that you're linked to by something in common, like the same church, same team, same school, the ones you tend to sit by at the ballpark on the bleachers, you come in contact with them quite a bit.
The second group of friends, the second circle is common friends. You're linked by something in common, but you're intentional about getting together with them. Book club, small group, you know, a mom's group, you make time, you're very intentional to be with your common friends.
Then the third circle of friendship is confirmed friends. We're close, but we don't see each other as often as we did. We're not in regular contact. These might be friends from high school or college that you can pick up right where you left off. You're still close, but you're confirmed friends, but you just don't see each other on a regular basis.
Then the fourth circle is community friends. You have regular time together. You may have met at work, but now all of a sudden you're making time to get together with them outside of work, even though you no longer work there anymore. So those are community friends that you really spend and choose to spend a lot of time with. [00:12:45]
Then the last one, it's the circle five, is committed friends. You're intimately involved with them. You know the details of their lives. You can call them at three in the morning. You can call them in a crisis. Those are your committed friends.
And she says, we need friends in all of the areas. There's value in all of the circles. I'd really never thought about, you know, friendship in light of circles or in the way she described it, but it was so eye-opening in just to learn about friendships. It was like, it's okay to be a two friend. It's okay to be a five-friend with a smaller group of people.
The last thing I wanted to share regarding this topic is that she says, Frientimacy is any relationship where both people feel seen, they feel safe, and the relationship is satisfying. And the way you get there over time is with positivity, consistency, and with vulnerability. And that's what makes for a meaningful friendship. It was great material. If you have not read her book, Frientimacy, I highly, highly recommend it.
The second topic that I was going to talk about was let's talk about sex. [00:13:44] I grew up in a home where sex was not discussed at all. I grew up in a very strong Christian home and all I was told was I was not allowed to have it. And then I came home on my 12th birthday and there was a book on my bed that said, "Now that you're 12." And I had to read this book by myself. It was so awkward. There was no one to talk to or ask questions to or say, Hey, I don't understand this." I guess I was just supposed to have to figure it out on my own.
Then 14 years later, when I got married as a 26-year-old virgin, I now was suddenly allowed to have sex, you know, but I still had not had anyone to ask any questions to, and I wasn't allowed to talk about it because I had a southern belle of a mother who told me that ladies don't talk about such things.
So I decided that this was a very important, untalked-about topic. Media sells it, movies glamorize it, and most married people bash it. So we wanted to talk about it in a healthy, constructive way. And I am certainly no expert. So we brought in a local Christian sex therapist, Dr. Mike Sytsma. He is amazing. He's the only male that's ever been to The Exchange. [00:14:47]
At first I was a little nervous because women were thinking, you know, Oh, he's going to come in there like the stereotypical male and he's going to state that men need sex and we'd always better be willing to give it to them. And he could not have been any more different. He is like this great big giant teddy bear, you know, with the most tender heart towards women. He was so wonderful. We actually have had him back four or five times. I mean, he has been so great in different venues.
We gave women the opportunity to send in anonymous questions for him to answer, and we found that we really don't have a safe place to ask questions like this. Very few places are talking about it, and even fewer places offer a safe forum to get sound advice and counsel. You get the magazines that don't always necessarily say what we need to be hearing. So we felt like it was important to do that.
It's hard to share some things from that night because of the sensitivity to some of the people's questions. So we opted not to have our notes from the crowd on the website and the Facebook page. But we had links to articles and some books that he suggested. [00:15:46]
But I can tell you that night was so powerful. There were women crying. Women came up to me afterwards and just said, "I have never heard a man talk so lovingly about a woman before." It really broke my heart, actually. He just kept reiterating over and over and over again that we're to be cherished. He said, "We're worthy of love and affection in a way that is satisfying to both the husband and the wife. It's not like we just have to lie there and wait for our husbands to do whatever he wants. It's that we're worthy of that love and affection."
I remember him sharing the biggest turn on to our husbands is a turned-on wife. And that was like a light bulb that went off in so many heads. And you could hear the women gasp. And he said, No, it's true, women. He said, "You ladies, that's what men want, just to see you turned on." I've had countless women reach out to me saying that that night changed their marriage, it changed their sex life.
One girl said, "It's the first time that I had the right tools and the right words to be able to have important, hard conversations." You know, they're difficult and they're awkward with your husband, but she said, "That was the first time I ever had the right words and knew how to approach him and what to say." [00:16:50] And she said, "It was life-changing."
Laura Dugger: I think that's incredible that you were courageous enough to talk about that topic. Here at the Savvy Sauce, maybe if this is your first time listening, I want to recommend just going back. Dr. Michael Sytsma has been a returning guest on the podcast.
These topics specifically related to sexual intimacy have been our most popular episodes. And when one goes out, it airs around the world and people share it. So hopefully this can be a safe place where you can listen to these podcasts, maybe even listen together with your spouse, if you've never been to The Exchange or you haven't had this experience where you can put language to this and improve this area of marriage. But I just want to say thank you for covering that with The Exchange.
Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, absolutely. It is so worth the time for anyone that has any questions or concerns or angst surrounding sex in their marriage or whatever it might be. I'm so glad that he's been a guest because he is amazing.
Laura Dugger: Our team would love to know, has The Savvy Sauce benefited you in any way? Our hope is that your life is enriched just a little bit more after listening and applying lessons from each episode. [00:17:58] If you have enjoyed the podcast, would you show us your support by pledging $5 per month to become a patron? You will receive some awesome perks and your contribution will help us offset the production costs for The Savvy Sauce so we can still make the majority of our content free to the public.
We hope you consider partnering with us today. Just visit our website, thesavvysauce.com, and click on our Patreon tab. Thank you for your consideration.
Elizabeth Pehrson: The last one of the three that I wanted to talk about is one we entitled "Ask It". And this is one of my favorite topics because it's been the most impactful for me personally. Voltaire tells us that we can evaluate people by the questions they ask.
Do we ask ourselves questions like, if I knew I had limited time to live, how would I change how am I currently living? What do I really love to do? Am I doing it? What is my greatest strength? What is my greatest weakness? What are my blind spots? When did I not speak up and I should have? Who am I? [00:18:59]
To the depth we know ourselves is the degree and capacity we can know and give to others. And if we don't know who we really are, we can't really live out our purpose. So we explored Andy Stanley's book, Ask It. He calls it the question that will revolutionize how we make decisions. And he says, no one plans to mess up their life, but very few people plan not to. No one plans to end a marriage, to raise a codependent child, to fall into addiction, or get into credit card debt. But once it happens and we're there, we say, how in the world did I get here?
And so when we're making a decision and we ask the question, is there anything wrong with it? That's not the question we should be asking, he argues. It should be, is it the wise thing for me to do? And he argues, we need a reference point. We need to ask the right questions.
So the three questions he offers is, in light of my past experience, what's the wise thing for me to do? In light of my current circumstances, what is the wise thing for me to do? And in light of my future hopes and dreams, what is the wise thing for me to do? [00:20:01]
Time basically equals our lives. You can get more money, you can get more friends, but you cannot get more time. So what is the best way for me to invest my time? Because if we're not careful, we'll miss the opportunities to spend time doing what matters most.
That goes back to what we desire to do at The Exchange, to live on purpose and with intention. I know that was a lot, but that's basically my cliff notes to the cliff notes.
Laura Dugger: I love it. And it's so exciting just to get a little taste or sampling of what you cover in these meetings. I'm so curious, what is your vision for The Exchange in the future?
Elizabeth Pehrson: My vision for The Exchange is really just to keep doing what we're doing, which is to encourage women to live on purpose and with intention. You know, we found that when we become intentional in one area of our life, it often trickles into other areas.
For instance, if we're becoming more purposeful in our mental lives, we often become more aware of other areas that need attention, like maybe our physical lives. And then it often transfers into our emotional well-being or our spiritual lives. [00:21:01]
Personally, I would love to see some type of digital expansion or podcast or something so that those that don't live here can still be a part of what we're about. But ultimately, at the end of the day, I just want to keep doing what we're called to do and do it well until I feel like God shows us otherwise.
Laura Dugger: Do you have any encouragement for someone listening who's also feeling this call to do something right now, but they also don't know what their it is yet?
Elizabeth Pehrson: Oh, yes. First of all, I just want to say you were not alone. I get it. I would say get still and find the time to be quiet. Just pray. Ask God to show you. He will do it. I'll tell you that. When I started on my journey, I went to the quietest place in my house, and that's my closet. And I woke up early and I would spend time in prayer, spend time in silence, spend time journaling.
When God's in something, you have enthusiasm within you. And that simply just means God within. And it won't be forced, you know, it's going to flow. I would encourage you not to get caught up in the end goal, because I really believe the goal is not the goal, but the process is the goal. [00:22:02]
One of the best books that I've ever read is Mark Batterson's Draw the Circle: The 40 Day Prayer Challenge. I devoured that book during that time, and it spoke to me unlike very few books have. I think I'm on maybe my sixth time reading it. And every time I would get to something new, I would strongly encourage anyone who was on this journey of following their calling to journal. Read that book and journal.
The stones of remembrance that I have throughout this process, for me, have been some of the most faith-building reminders to me and my journey and my growth and really just of God's faithfulness on every step of the journey. It's been a sweet encouragement to me to show me that God's in this. I'm not alone and neither is she.
Laura Dugger: I think you're a natural encourager. If somebody's listening and they want to find you online or learn more about The Exchange, where would you direct them?
Elizabeth Pehrson: We have a website, it's called TheExchangeUS.org. We also have a Facebook page and an Instagram page, both called The Exchange. There you can find what we're about, inspirational quotes, my blog, recap from past events. [00:23:04] We have another section called Notes from the Crowd. It's all right there, so I hope they go check it out.
Laura Dugger: We will certainly link to this in the show notes, as always, so it's easy to find. I have one final question for you today because we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. So as my final question, Elizabeth, what is your savvy sauce?
Elizabeth Pehrson: I would want to tell every parent, especially those with little children, stay consistent with your discipline. Stay consistent with your words. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't throw something out there as a punishment if you're not going to follow through.
You know, I think sometimes we get caught up and say things like, if you don't do such and such, we're all staying home from grandma's party tonight. Are we really going to all stay home from her party? Don't use a consequence that you can't follow through on or that you don't want to follow through on. Because our children need structure, grace-filled discipline, and they need us to be clear, concise, and consistent in our parenting and in our speech. [00:24:03]
You know, it's kind of like the rules of sailing. My dad taught me this. You might feel confined if you have to go by the sailor's rules, and you might not think it's fair when he tells you you have to do this or that, and you might not even understand the rules. Like, why in the world do I have to do that? But if you do follow the rules, you ultimately end up with the freedom of the seas.
I think in the same way, if you're diligently consistent in your younger years, your children will know that you mean what you say. And it's going to make your parenting teenager years so much easier. You'll have a lot less worrying, a lot more freedom, and enjoyment for both you and your children as they get older.
Laura Dugger: I love it, as I did all of your answers. Your energy is just so contagious. I really enjoyed this time together. So thanks for sharing with us.
Elizabeth Pehrson: Thank you for coming and being in my home. I've loved it.
Laura Dugger: One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term "gospel" before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news. Every single one of us were born sinners and God is perfect and holy, so He cannot be in the presence of sin. Therefore, we're separated from Him. [00:25:10]
This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a savior. But God loved us so much, He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.
This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.
We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [00:26:12]
So would you pray with me now? Heavenly, Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You. Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change their lives now for eternity. In Jesus name, we pray, amen.
If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring Him for me, so me for Him, you get the opportunity to live your life for Him.
At this podcast, we are called Savvy for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you're ready to get started?
First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision my parents took me to Barnes and Noble to get the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. Start by reading the book of John. [00:27:11]
Get connected locally, which basically means just tell someone who is part of the church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.
We want to celebrate with you too. So feel free to leave a comment for us if you made a decision for Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process.
Finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.
If you've already received this good news, I pray that you have someone else to share it with today. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.
