4.11 Strengthening Interdependent Relationships: Insights from Kawika Allen and Nathan Ormsby

Dana Robb is joined by Kawika Allen and Nathan Ormsby to dispute the notion that men are unnecessary and promote the truth that men are truly valuable and we need to build interdependent relationships to support one another.

 

“I think all men and husbands should strive to be more nurturing as well. I think it's just helpful for our children to see that modeling of a nurturing father.” - Kawika Allen

 

“Just showing that emotional support and care is not something that you do often enough, and especially in men. We should be okay to say we care for each other, we're looking out for you, and it's important.” - Nathan Ormsby

 

“When we're vulnerable with each other, we actually can feel closer and more connected.” - Dana Robb

 

“It is really helpful for me as a wife to know where he's at [emotionally] and I feel like I have a lot more compassion for him when he's open about what he's feeling or the stresses he's under, the things he is experiencing. I feel like I can then step in and know how to support him a little bit more.” - Dana Robb

“A good relationship is built on vulnerability. You need to have that, and talk about deep and meaningful things.” - Nathan Ormsby

 

“Men who are watching this, give yourself some grace. Give yourself some flexibility, opportunities to learn from mistakes and take those mistakes and improve on them and not let them control your lives, right?  And to stand back up and keep moving forward and trying and striving the best they can in all areas, right? Emotionally, spiritually, physically, mentally. Um, and so again, just give yourself some grace. You know, you're trying your best.” - Kawika Allen

 

“That's what we need more in our relationships is that recognition. We're doing our best and we're not gonna get it perfectly all the time, and that's okay. We just keep picking it up and we keep trying.” - Dana Robb

Whenever presented with the opportunity for adventure, Dana Robb is all in. Currently, this includes riding the local mountain biking trails with her husband, canyoneering, and climbing the hills of southern Utah. She loves to learn and explore with her six kids. She is drawn to the opportunities being involved with Big Ocean Women provides. Dana loves connecting to a global sisterhood where women’s issues are being addressed through reframing and an abundance mindset.

Nathan Ormsby brings a diverse and dynamic background to his role as Director of Student Wellness at Brigham Young University. Originally from New Zealand and Australia, Nathan’s early experiences in a non-traditional family, multi-faith family, and a First-Generation college student, laid the foundation for a lifelong commitment to service, resilience, and community engagement.

Nathan has cultivated a career that spans not-for-profit organizations, local government, professional sports, and resort management. His professional journey reflects a deep passion for wellness, creative problem-solving, and building inclusive, supportive environments.

For over 15 years at BYU, Nathan has led impactful initiatives—from developing family programs at Aspen Grove to advising multicultural students. Today, he serves in his role, guiding campus-wide wellness efforts and chairing the Wellness Wise Committee. His leadership is marked by a holistic approach to well-being, integrating physical, emotional, and social health to enrich the student experience.

Outside of work, Nathan is an avid weightlifter and adventure enthusiast. He and his wife, Jennifer, are proud parents of six children who enjoy swimming, playing pickleball, and sharing laughs over funny videos.

Professor Allen received his bachelor’s degree in speech/organizational communication, his master’s degree in counseling psychology at the University of Utah, his PhD in counseling psychology from the University of Missouri-Columbia and his predoctoral clinical internship at Duke University. His research areas involve spiritual, cultural, and indigenous ways of healing in psychotherapy, including culturally appropriate psychotherapies and interventions for various populations. Professor Allen also conducts research related to religiosity, perfectionism, scrupulosity, and psychological wellbeing among many populations. In addition, Professor Allen has focused much of his research on culture-specific counseling interventions and the relationships across religiosity/spirituality, coping/collectivistic coping, depression, anxiety, and psychological well-being/adjustment among Polynesians/Polynesian Americans. Professor Allen is the founder of and leads the Polynesian Psychology Education Research Team (The Poly Psi Team). He was recently awarded a Fulbright Specialist Scholarship teaching, providing training, and presenting and conducting research on religiosity, spirituality, culture, mental health, and psychotherapy in Brazil. Dr. Allen has numerous publications in top-tier scientific journals, over 4 million dollars in research grants, and multiple professional presentations at national and international conferences. Dr. Allen is an associate professor in the PhD program of counseling psychology at Brigham Young University. He and his wife, Carolina, have 7 children and they live in Provo, Utah.