From Chaos to Clarity: Navigating Effective Meetings

Description: Transform meetings from time-wasters to productivity powerhouses with expert insights from Andy Marris, thought leader and Learning & Development Trainer at MRA - The Management Association. Discover actionable tips for meaningful outcomes and progress. Perfect for team leaders, project managers, and professionals seeking to optimize their valuable time.

Resources:

Leading Effective Meetings - Training 

Is This Meeting a Must? 

MRA Membership 

About MRA 

Let's Connect:

Guest Bio - Andy Marris 

Guest LinkedIn Profile - Andy Marris 

Host Bio - Sophie Boler 

Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler 

Transcript:

Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03
Unknown
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.

00:00:21:05 - 00:00:43:01
Unknown
Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to episode number 50. We're celebrating this episode today, so it's a little special. So thanks for being our 50th guest Andy, Cheers to that! Oh, I know it's your first time being hot here. I am a little hurt, you know, 50.

00:00:43:03 - 00:01:05:05
Unknown
There's been 49 without me. I thought you like me, Sophie. No But seriously, though be glad to be here. We saved you for a good episode so. All right, well, that makes me feel better. Well, we all know there's kind of a collective groan when you hear this is going to be a fun meeting. And one of our team members actually has a notebook that says notes and doodles for meetings.

00:01:05:05 - 00:01:28:13
Unknown
That should have been emails. Oh, so we've all been there. We've all sat through meetings, have felt like they've kind of been wasting time and just wasting that productive time. And now with the whole hybrid and remote work factors, meetings just seem to have lost their power. So today we're going to be discussing tips on how to make meetings great and not merely just meeting to meet.

00:01:28:15 - 00:01:49:17
Unknown
So today I'm here with an expert on the topic, Andy Marris. He's an MRA learning and development instructor, but he really has broad expertise and leadership growth, change management, brand marketing, and much more so in a lot of different roles too, like leader, coach, motivator and trainer. So I know you'll have a lot of great tips for us today.

00:01:49:20 - 00:02:07:22
Unknown
Know this is a topic I'm very passionate about. Not a big fan of wasting time and I've been in four or five hour meetings that were really effective. Yes, absolutely. Very 20 meeting, 20 minute meetings, like why am I here? Right. So really important that we get this right. Oh, we got to start out with the negatives. Unfortunately.

00:02:07:23 - 00:02:33:09
Unknown
So what are some top complaints of having meetings generally? Oh, there's so many. There's so many. To me maybe my biggest. Yeah. Complaint is when the meeting is supposed to end at a certain time and it goes way over a minute or two or human. I actually try to leave slightly early. We can talk about that later, but it's, it's really irritating when it goes way beyond it.

00:02:33:09 - 00:02:53:13
Unknown
And you've got other responsibilities, other duties. Another thing that really bothers me is when it doesn't have an agenda, you sit there wondering, why am I here? And I actually want to add value to the meeting. But if I'm not aware of what we're even going to try and solve or understand. And in the meeting that's really been set up to fail, they already feel like a huge waste of time.

00:02:53:13 - 00:03:13:06
Unknown
Yeah, we're all so busy. Oh, add on to the negative ones too. I feel like one of my pet peeves is when no one's really engaged in the meeting either. A certain kind of sitting there looking at each other, that's that's never a good thing. But any other common mistakes people make when running or even planning a meeting.

00:03:13:12 - 00:03:37:23
Unknown
So not having an actionable agenda I think is a big one. Not helping people understand their role is supposed to be in the meeting. What are we trying to accomplish? What should I bring? What value? Not having a follow up. There's just so many things that go poorly in meetings, and I think it's really important to think about, you know, why are we having the meeting?

00:03:37:23 - 00:04:00:16
Unknown
Yeah, who should be there and then what do we do before, during, after, and then even follow up all of those types of things so that the meetings are really fruitful and it's solving business problems or informing people of what they need to know. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's dive into some logistics. What are some key principles for conducting efficient and effective meetings?

00:04:00:16 - 00:04:25:15
Unknown
And you covered a couple, but any other kind of key principles that we can't miss. Yeah, I really want to emphasize I know I've said it already, but they're really having what we call an action based agenda, an outcome based agenda. We we want it focused on where are we going with this, Right. So instead of having bullets for the meeting, guess I've seen invites that they're trying to even have an agenda.

00:04:25:15 - 00:04:52:12
Unknown
And that's better than not having real say, updates or new ideas. And what am I going to do with that? Right now I'm that does it really mean anything? Instead, how about something like brainstorm solution to X problem or vote on realistic deadline for whatever the whatever the project is. And so those types of things, we want to make sure, yeah, we have it be action oriented, right?

00:04:52:12 - 00:05:13:16
Unknown
Have verbs that say we're going to do something, not just one more specific. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So how about the length for meetings? Like, do you have a recommendation for an appropriate length of a meeting or any recommendations on that? Well, it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I've been to really fruitful all day meetings because it's a major undertaking.

00:05:13:16 - 00:05:38:18
Unknown
Or maybe it's a, you know, once a year strategic planning event or something like that. So that could be really long, but it really needs to be fruitful because we're putting together the agenda that helps us understand what we're trying to accomplish and when and why and who is going to do what. And that's at the same time, most meetings are there to not be that long kind of the standard.

00:05:38:18 - 00:05:59:16
Unknown
Is it our release? It's COVID. I think it is especially true because people are so many virtual meetings. And so you're not even in the same room physically, and people are stacking meetings on top of each other. And I don't even have time to do take care of my boss. No need to you. Yeah, right. We're we're in the when I'm going from one meeting to another.

00:05:59:16 - 00:06:17:05
Unknown
So we've been suggesting that maybe people think about a 50 minute meeting. So you've got a ten minute period to get ready to prep for the next meeting and take care of any physical needs you have. Oh, maybe a 25 minute meeting instead of a half hour, that kind of thing. So people have a time to decompress, they have time to prep.

00:06:17:07 - 00:06:42:24
Unknown
And we could just keep stacking these, especially when around that rectangle, right? Yeah, that, that's, that's I think really helpful. Yeah, that's a great idea. I feel like with those daylong meetings or five plus our meetings, it's important that breaks to like, yeah, definitely just even a 15. Malik Let's go take a walk or I don't know. And so spring break, as a trainer, we talk about having breaks every 70 minutes.

00:06:42:24 - 00:07:00:15
Unknown
There's actually adult learning science behind there. I think we can apply that to meetings if we know there's going to be along. Would people kind of hit a wall? Yeah, 70 minutes or so. That's what the research tells us. And I think that applies to meetings too. So how about managing time during the meeting and what do you have to say about that?

00:07:00:17 - 00:07:20:09
Unknown
It is really important to make sure that people are moving, whatever the topic is forward. So often people go down rabbit holes, they're not the focus of the meeting and squirrel, and now we're now we're we're we're out of alignment with what we're trying to accomplish. So as the meeting leader, you want to make sure you're constantly driving it forward.

00:07:20:11 - 00:07:41:15
Unknown
I have a joke that I tell people. I said, Let's follow the five B's. Be brief, baby. Three briefs. Right? And that makes people laugh. But it also reminds people why in the plane ride, you know, it it get your point out, but do it in a way that's concise and that everyone understands, right? Say enough so that people understand.

00:07:41:17 - 00:07:58:23
Unknown
But also concise enough that we're not dominating the meeting. In fact, I suggest to people that whatever the number of the people in the meeting, that there's ten people in a meeting, you should be 1/10 of the conversation. And if there is two people of three, that you should be half right? Yeah. And for whatever that is, kind of aim for that.

00:07:58:23 - 00:08:16:16
Unknown
And will we set those rules ahead of time? I think that really, really wait a bit and I know we were talking about this before. How about the Alamo acronym? No, I think we got to bring it out of the gate here. So we've got Elmo here and famous Sesame Street character. I know I'm actually too old for this guy.

00:08:16:16 - 00:08:36:15
Unknown
My kids like this guy. So he didn't exist when I was Sesame Street eight. But instead. Fair enough. Let's move on. If somebody is just circling and circling and circling in that landing the plane, as I like to say, and let's move on now, of course, we have to set this as a rule out of whole it, Elmo.

00:08:36:18 - 00:08:55:08
Unknown
There could be a salty ride like what you shot. It's basically shot up, but in a nice way. Right. But but it really helps people go, okay, you know what? We've we've discussed this enough. We've come to a consensus or whatever it is, somebody can call it Elmo. You definitely want to wait to call it. Some people call Elmo too quickly, right?

00:08:55:08 - 00:09:25:23
Unknown
Well, wait a minute. We're not quite done. And otherwise it's something we do on our team. And so we'll even say Elmo has been called in then. Okay. We we we beat this topic to death instead of on something else. Oh, yeah. No, I learned that from the instructors. And I love all of you. SMITH So what are some effective ways to really engage all the meeting participants in a meeting and kind of encourage active collaboration for the whole group and the meeting?

00:09:25:23 - 00:09:45:06
Unknown
Leader You want to really be a facilitator, right? It's really about drawing people out. It's not. Everybody loves being the center of attention, so people are very shy and they have great things to add. But if it stays between their ears, does it do us a lot of good, right? So, you know, so B, what do you think?

00:09:45:12 - 00:10:10:15
Unknown
Yeah, but not putting people on the spot. Another reason why it's so important to have that outcome based agenda is they know what they're supposed to say in the meeting, what they're supposed to bring, what value they're going to offer, what expertise we're asking for them to bring. And and so they're more prepared because this goes hour, maybe two or three days before the meeting ever takes place.

00:10:10:17 - 00:10:31:20
Unknown
I try to shoot for at least 24 hours before the meeting. We've got this action based agenda, you know, in the invitation. Yeah. And how about for remote meetings or virtual meetings? I feel like it might be a little trickier to get that active engagement through a screen. So what are your what's your advice on that? Well, I've got one.

00:10:31:20 - 00:10:51:06
Unknown
We've talked straight to the camera on this. Put your camera on that one. Thrives me crazy, right? Because all of a sudden, it's like that conference call from hell that you're probably too young to remember. But with some folks, you know, we used to have just the forward sitting in the middle of the room and you people would interrupt each other and, oh, you go first.

00:10:51:06 - 00:11:04:10
Unknown
So you go first. So we that was an extra awkward part of the room. And why have video if we're not going to use it? Cos we don't know what they're doing. I've actually even but it'll fill me in with this one. I mean you know, it's kind of creepy when you, when you don't do your game. Right.

00:11:04:11 - 00:11:26:03
Unknown
Boy, does that go out quickly. That's right. You're better. You'd better know your audience. You pull that one out. But we've got to get that camera on. You know, I. I get it. People could be doing laundry during the meeting. I want them focused on what we're doing. Yeah. And it's great that we can work from everywhere. I've been impressed at how we can.

00:11:26:05 - 00:11:45:04
Unknown
A lot of people have proven that they can be really good in online meetings where they're not distracted. And but boy, that camera on passionate about that one. And I don't really believe the excuse that you are one or the other camera this 2020 this you do and and you know we just went through a global pandemic recently.

00:11:45:04 - 00:12:11:06
Unknown
Everyone has a camera now. I grew up in kind of going off of that what you're talking about with the laundry and just being a little unproductive on the meetings. What are some best practices for handling those, let's say, disruptions or unproductive behavior during meetings? I think it's really important to set the expectations ahead of time, right? There's so many rules of engagement.

00:12:11:06 - 00:12:28:21
Unknown
I like to make sure that everyone agrees to at the outset of the meeting, and maybe you can have that for your invite, right? Yeah. So Vegas Rule, which set in the meeting, stays in the meeting so people feel safe to contribute, right? That's a huge part. Like I said, everybody's a certain percentage of the of the conversation.

00:12:28:23 - 00:12:53:00
Unknown
No killer phrases like that'll never work or this is a dumb idea, right? Yeah. You know, why would you do that? You shut down conversation. Nobody wants to be told that. And so all of a sudden, the best ideas get lost because people kill the conversation like that. So the idea called the parking lot is a great rule to where we that's not in the scope of this meeting, but it could be a great future meeting.

00:12:53:00 - 00:13:14:05
Unknown
Let's put that on the parking lot. Maybe we've got a big sheet of paper or something we can write that on. We don't to lose the idea, but it just doesn't really help us in what we're trying to accomplish right now. And one other thing that I think is really important is to assign minutes to someone. So is taking the notes and what was said and at what point and all those types of things.

00:13:14:07 - 00:13:38:23
Unknown
But let's not talk that on the same person every time. I think it's important that we rotate that. And so that's not felt done somewhat. Yeah, that's great advice. And you talked about that meetings kind of carry over to actionable steps after the meeting. So how can follow up actions in accountability be established to ensure that meetings lead to great success for outcomes?

00:13:39:00 - 00:14:01:10
Unknown
It's a great question, right? So I liked following up with the meeting on, you know, here are the minutes, here's what was discussed. And oh, by the way, here's your actions. PARTICIPANT Here's the what's in it for me from your perspective, I got to put myself in their shoes. Here's your action items, not just out what are the due dates.

00:14:01:12 - 00:14:22:24
Unknown
And so that's really clear. And then of course, any next steps that need to be included and you could be having another meeting maybe didn't accomplish or as boss do in the 50 minutes they are. Instead of going over, I'd rather just call another meeting. And here's what we accomplished so far. Here's what we still need to. I think that's a lot more effective than people tuning out to.

00:14:23:04 - 00:15:00:16
Unknown
This is still going on and becomes a just a time waster once again. So how about are there any particular cultural or organizational factors that can impact the effectiveness of meetings and how can you really address those? That's a really good question because it really is cultural. I go to some organizations where if you're if you're not 15 minutes early, you're late, and then they go to others where like the meeting was also started 15 minutes ago, it's somebody still walking in and everyone else having side conversations as if this is normal.

00:15:00:16 - 00:15:20:12
Unknown
And so we better set the ground rules right and work within your culture. You can always work to shape it, right. Really hard to change your culture. We could do that over time and set the ground rules upfront, right? That when we're in the meetings that I facilitate on time means on time. Yeah, I expect you to be here.

00:15:20:14 - 00:15:44:08
Unknown
And this is what I did want and what concept. We will get this done on a timer ahead of time. Yeah. Instead of going way over because we didn't even start at the appropriate. Yeah. That's funny that you bring up being late or being early because I feel like, you know, the people who, oh, I can be 10 minutes late or I got to be here 30 minutes early or that's just kind of fun.

00:15:44:10 - 00:16:10:02
Unknown
But as we wrap up here, what is one key takeaway that you want to share to make your meetings the most effective and efficient as possible? All right. Well, points. Good question. Hard. I come prepared, come prepared. Be ready to speak up, have an open mind, and really be thinking about what is the best way to accomplish what we're trying to do.

00:16:10:04 - 00:16:30:16
Unknown
If I can, if if I can give you just my favorite way to brainstorm, since we're talking about meetings of one huge tip, it's a very boring name. It's called the nominal group technique. So you would agree with that. But but you'd say the best way to brainstorm it ever. Funny. Have you ever been in a meeting where it's supposed to be a brainstorm is more like a drizzle?

00:16:30:17 - 00:16:56:11
Unknown
Yes. Not even close to a star. Was not even a light brain. Right. And what the what this is, is everybody gets a silent voice. What? You have a group of people, let's say there's eight people in the meeting. Everybody takes a turn. I give people 2 minutes to write every answer they can come up with. Oh, two, whatever the question that we're trying to solve, whatever, whatever the issue is, no talking and then no judge.

00:16:56:13 - 00:17:11:24
Unknown
And I get people out of these meetings. I give people one. Mulligan Right. You know, Well, that'll never work. That's zero again. You do that again, you're out of here. And I've kicked people out because they just can't help it, those killer phrases. But can we can we take turn? So we come back from the 2 minutes. Absolute silence.

00:17:12:01 - 00:17:29:00
Unknown
Some people are writing stuff right away, so that person that had a real brainstorm would just shout it out. It still could do that great person that needs time to process. Yeah. Has all this time to think about it? It 90 seconds might go by, but then that last 30 seconds, they're writing all kinds of stuff. Yeah, we go around one at a time and every shares their ideas.

00:17:29:00 - 00:17:45:09
Unknown
So you really are the most shy person in the group. Yes. Still gets you can to read off that line up. You don't have to make eye contact deep in with anybody if you're comfortable with that. And we capture all these ideas and I think the best practices to go around one more time. Yeah, they now have the ideas.

00:17:45:14 - 00:18:05:20
Unknown
Two more minutes. We go around till everybody passes and I find we get the best ideas of that second round. And it may even be something that somebody said, That's a dumb idea. Yeah, but a piggyback on that. Maybe not so good idea could actually foster a terrific idea, you know, And then we can vote on what what we think are the.

00:18:06:00 - 00:18:24:00
Unknown
The ideas that we go forward. Yeah, that's a great tip. I feel like I'm I'm a person who has to think and think before I can don't know, say say something or contribute. So that's a helpful way on how to still contribute, but gives me time to think about it and write down my answers and stuff like that.

00:18:24:00 - 00:18:44:02
Unknown
Well, I've you know, I've had some brainstorms that were drizzles and I've had some that were actual triggered speakers. We use, Hey, like me. And it's awesome how well it works. Yeah. Okay. So now you've got everybody to kind of contribute their ideas, but what happens if you get too many ideas now? What? So yeah, that's. That's like the opposite probably.

00:18:44:02 - 00:19:01:05
Unknown
Right. You go, It's a drizzle now you've got a hurricane, right? It's a great problem to have. I remember one time I asked my group, we came up with 101 ideas during a brain to brainstorm session with the nominal group technique we can't do even because to that right, we want to do maybe five of those things. Well, how do we pick?

00:19:01:09 - 00:19:22:03
Unknown
Yeah, well, my favorite way to do that then is something we call multi voting and you could do 3 to 1 where your favorite idea gets three points. Use second to. I think it's much better to go five, three, one. The cream rises to the top, everybody, and you got to read the whole list. And you know, there's a ton of ideas that that's a lot to look at.

00:19:22:08 - 00:19:39:01
Unknown
But your favorite idea gets five, your second three. And then just one point for the third and you don't vote for anything else. And then you see who got the most votes. And the cream really does rise. The pop. You might get two or three ideas and then you might do it one more time to pick the favorite idea.

00:19:39:03 - 00:19:58:20
Unknown
But that really, really helps us narrow that down. And it's a really good tool to make that brainstorm really fruitful. Absolutely. So, you know, you've given us a lot of great meeting strategies and tips and advice, but is there anything else or am I saying, well, this is why I saved my favorite for last perfect. I call it the Ale rule.

00:19:58:24 - 00:20:22:12
Unknown
So let me pour a drink while I'm telling you this early. Always leave early, even if it's only 10 seconds early. So tell me if I give you a shameless plug. Absolutely. I do a class on efficient, effective readings. It's not offered in our catalog. It's more of an on site that companies will bring me in, which I think is actually really effective.

00:20:22:12 - 00:20:45:16
Unknown
Because like you asked before about the culture, I can tailor it to their culture. And then I even have other topics that were similar, like having efficient and effective emails and things like that. Maybe a featured topic for a 30 minute podcast, but really helping those things would be really effective and not just time wasters once again. So I'm well, Andy, thank you for all the great content and tips today.

00:20:45:18 - 00:21:10:11
Unknown
I'm kind of pumped to go into my meetings today, but welcome to the show. We'd love to have you again and to our listeners, if you liked our chat in topic today, I'd urge you to comment. A new tip you learned on how to have effective and efficient meetings or comment. Anything that you want to add on to the conversation, don't forget to share that episode and consider joining MRA if you aren't a member already.

00:21:10:13 - 00:21:31:14
Unknown
We have all the resources you need in the show notes below, as well as some great resources on our topic for today. All the right things for tuning in and we'll see you next week. And that wraps up our content for this episode. Be sure to reference the show notes where you can sign them to connect. For more podcast updates, check out other MRA episodes on your favorite podcast platform.

00:21:31:15 - 00:21:41:08
Unknown
And as always, make sure to follow MRA's 30 minutes Thrive so you don't miss out. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next Wednesday to carry on the conversation.