Doug Sayranian: From M&A lawyer to general counsel working in cyber threat intelligence

Reed Smith alum Doug Sayranian shares his journey from M&A senior associate in New York to his current role in-house as general counsel at cyber threat intelligence company Intel 471. 

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Transcript:

Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Career Footprints. In each episode of Career Footprints, we'll ask our guests, a Reed Smith alum, to share their career story, how their time at Reed Smith set them up for success, and their advice for early career lawyers. Our goal is to surface insights from inspiring professionals' careers that will help you find your professional success, however you define that. 

Lauren: Greetings, and welcome to another episode of Reed Smith's Alumni Career Footprints podcast. This is Lauren Hakala, Reed Smith's Global Director of Learning and Development. Today, I'm excited to be speaking with Reed Smith alum Douglas Sayranian. Doug is currently the general counsel of cybercrime intelligence company Intel 471. He joined Intel 471 from Reed Smith's New York office, where he was a senior M&A associate. Doug's career has included roles at three other global law firms, where, as we're about to hear, he built significant chops in public, private, and private equity M&A. Doug, welcome. 

Doug: Hi, Lauren. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here. 

Lauren: So I would love to start our conversation by hearing a little bit about Intel 471. What does your company focus on, and what is your role over there? 

Doug: Absolutely. Intel 471 is a cyber threat intelligence company, and our specialty is focusing on gathering and reporting hard to get information about what's happening in the criminal underworld when it comes to cybersecurity threats, vulnerabilities, and tactics. A good example might be the solar winds breach or government investigations into Telegram or trying to help protect hospitals and businesses from ransomware. My role at the company as the head of legal covers the normal everyday contractual matters, but also things like risk, privacy, compliance, HR, and strategic positioning of the corporation. 

Lauren: Wow. So it sounds like you're really, or at least your company in the business is working on some things that are in the headlines that we're all seeing every day. So exciting. So as someone who spent most of your career so far at law firms, what's been the best thing about making the jump to in-house? It was a really difficult decision for me when I was considering whether to continue pursuing partnership at a large law firm, specifically at Reed Smith, or to leave for Intel 471, which was actually one of my clients when I was in private practice. The best thing about being in-house is the ability to really put my skills to use and solve problems for the business outside of a narrow legal channel being able to have an impact and an influence in a variety of different aspects of the organization has been really rewarding and it's also allowed me to learn entirely new skills and develop different aspects of existing skills to be a better practitioner and a business leader. 

Lauren: Great. No, thanks for that. So you mentioned developing new skills in your new role, and I want to ask you more about that. So in what areas have you had to do the most learning? Like where was the biggest learning curve? And how was that for you coming from being, you know, quite a successful senior associate? 

Doug: I think that there are probably two areas that I would identify as the low-hanging fruit or the steepest learning curves for me when I first went in-house. One is practical, and that is reframing an analysis of any situation or a solution to a problem or a strategy to tackle a certain obstacle. In terms of practicality, the fact that the world is in an imperfect place. In private practice, obviously, attorneys seek to be experts on a wide variety of topics, but understand both the perfectly impossible and imperfectly possible solutions to a client's problem. It was difficult for me when I first went in-house to let go of the impulse to want to apply the best solution, as opposed to applying the solution that was commercially practicable. The second area where I've done quite a lot of reading, both technical and non-technical material, is obviously in the context of artificial intelligence and large language models. It's an exciting new development for technology for humanity and it's really changing the way my business and businesses in general conduct themselves in the world. 

Lauren: Interesting. So really getting down into the details of the business. Because I imagine as outside counsel, you also try to be practical and business-like, but it sounds like now that you're on that other side, it's a different level of solution-oriented thinking for the business. 

Doug: Absolutely. I used to joke that when I was an M&A practitioner, I was functionally a wedding planner. 

Lauren: I love that. 

Doug: I helped companies fall in love and start a family. It's a little bit different when you're part of the family and you have to think about day-to-day things like getting groceries and taking out trash as opposed to planning for the big party. 

Lauren: Oh, wow. I love that metaphor. Okay, so let's go back to the beginning of your career now that we have seen where you've landed so successfully. So you went to Northwestern Law School in Chicago, and knowing that, you must have had plenty of options when you started out your career. So can you tell us a little bit about when and how you chose to come to New York and do M&A at a global law firm? 

Doug: When I was in law school, I had the privilege of taking corporate law courses from Professor Carl Lutz, who was formerly a private equity M&A partner at Kirkland & Ellis. And one of the courses he taught was on M&A transactions, where we actually read through sample deal documents and thought through the negotiation of the commercial terms, the legal terms, and the implications it might have for the fictional business. I enjoyed that work so much that I knew in law school that I wanted to be an M&A attorney. And when I was interviewing with firms, I met with a number of really wonderful partners and associates from all over the country. But it was fairly obvious to me that New York as a market was where most of the activity and the skill and the resources for U.S.-based M&A was located. And the line that I used in my on-campus interviews when I was still a 2L trying to get a summer associate position was, you don't choose to become a gladiator and then refuse to go to Rome. Because of all the places in the world to do M&A, New York is the most competitive and the fastest moving and the most intense. And I knew that if I was in New York City, I would find mentors and teachers and challenges that would help me grow. 

Lauren: So you just fell in love with the subject matter in law school and then, as you said, made it to the capital of the excitement. And I'm curious, when you landed here as a first-year associate, what surprised you? Was it all that you had expected and hoped for and what was different from what you might have expected? 

Doug: I joke with people that being a big law M&A associate is not as bad as people say it is, but it's worse than you imagine. In that it's exceptionally rewarding and challenging and changes constantly. And so there's an adaptability and versatility that's required that makes doing the work fun, genuinely interesting on the other hand the lifestyle is quite intense and i think to be excellent all of the time and push for perfection and look for errors or mistakes or gaps is a difficult thing to do. It's a method of mental training that is quite taxing. And so I was really surprised when I first started practicing and started learning from my teachers how consistent you have to be in your thinking. And not rigidly consistent, but just how demanding you have to be on yourself to deliver a high level of practice. 

Lauren: Yeah, that sort of image that's coming up is just like this relentlessness of having to get it right, even though you're working on difficult timelines, I imagine. So you've shared that M&A practice is particularly demanding. And in my former life, I was also a corporate lawyer. I did securities. So I know, and you've shared that you worked long and unpredictable hours. And I'm just curious, what kept you going throughout those tough times and maybe some sleepless nights? 

Doug: I had the benefit of working with really wonderful teams of lawyers, associates, senior associates, partners, and also support staff. This was also pre-pandemic, and so most of the time we were in an office. If we had weekend work or late nights, I was almost never alone. Even if I was the only person working on my matter in my office, there would be other people in the office, on my floor, in the cafe. And the feeling of camaraderie, of doing important work, of collaboration, of excitement, really removed a lot of what I would call the distress of long, late nights. And so it was stressful, but it wasn't distressing. 

Lauren: Now, it's so interesting when I think about what made it so hard for so many people during the pandemic, I think it was just the absence of what you said, right? Having other folks around who you can talk to and who understand what you're going through, and then having all that just physical support, right? Having a cafe that you can go to and take a break in. So that's really, it's interesting to hear that that's what got you through. So just kind of continuing on with this theme of the intensity of your career as interesting and great as it was. I want to ask you to go back to a particularly difficult moment and all of that and give your younger self some advice? What was one of the toughest times and what would you say to yourself when you're in a very intense period? 

Doug: It's interesting because looking back, the moments I would say were most difficult for me as a junior lawyer are probably not the moments I would have chosen as a junior lawyer. The benefit of hindsight I think recontextualizes some of those things if i was going to give myself some advice and hopefully the audience can benefit from this as well is to maintain some perspective and take a deep breath and think things through because often there is pressure to do things perfectly and instantaneously. One of those is achievable, and it's the quality of practice. No matter how quickly you work or how urgently you work, you're never going to be able to rewind the clock. And it's far better to take a deep breath and make sure what you're doing is really moving the needle and helping your team, helping your partner, helping your client, and trying to reach a goal. So I think falling down and still working with urgency, but not feeling rushed. 

Lauren: Yeah, I guess as easy as it could be to sort of be an autopilot when you're working that hard, it sounds like just really reminding yourself that you are a lawyer, even though you might be a junior one, and take the time to think and, you know, have empathy also for your senior lawyers, maybe a little in there. So it sounds like you were working hard. It was interesting. It was intense. There were some rough times, but overall, it seems like you did pretty well judging from where you went next and where you ended up. So just quick question before we move on to the next stage of your career, what are a couple of things that you did right? Like, if you look back, you were like, that was a good move. 

Doug: So I think the biggest thing I can actually take credit for that helped my career go well was I was extremely intentional about seeking out lawyers who I admired as practitioners and as people. And made an effort to learn from them. Work with them, get to know them, seek their advice, seek their guidance on what skills I should try to develop, the best way to develop them, and how to plan for the future and make sure that I wasn't developing myself into a niche that was going to fade away, right? The second thing I think I did right was be extremely organized. And that sounds very simple, but it made a huge difference in terms of my stress level and my ability to work with a team or be nimble or to pick up new work for new clients. Having an organized inbox, having organized files, keeping notes of things and Making sure those notes were identifiable and well-organized made a huge difference and also gave me a little more work-life balance because I wasn't spending as much time scrambling looking for things. 

Lauren: Yeah, I love that. Going back to a theme that you brought up earlier about slowing down, taking your time, and being thoughtful, right? It sounds like you did that with the basics of getting advice and keeping yourself organized. So, okay, I want to segue now to when you joined us as a lateral associate. So could you tell us a little bit about how you landed at Reed Smith? How did it come about? 

Doug: Sure thing. So a few years ago I got a call from a recruiter who was working on behalf of Reed Smith, specifically for Jen Cheng, who is one of the leaders in the corporate practice and the M&A group at Reed Smith. And at that time I was in a transition period at my prior firm because a senior partner had decided to retire and a lot of his client work was being primarily done by myself and another senior partner. And we were trying to figure out how we were going to staff this book of business and to continue supporting these clients. At that time, I had a decision to make whether I wanted to continue really focusing my practice on this region of the world, these industries, these clients specifically, or if I wanted to broaden my horizons and try to really develop an aspect of my practice that was weaker than the others, which was public company M&A. I had done some, but not a lot. And it was a skill that I identified pretty early on as being essential to being a powerhouse M&A attorney, knowing how to do public, private, cross-border, private equity, sponsor-backed deals. So when I got a call from this recruiter offering to have an introductory conversation with Jen, I said, absolutely, because she has a great reputation and is known for being a power player in M&A. And when we had our initial get-to-know-each-other call, we hit it off immediately. She's a fantastic lawyer, wonderful human being. We both love dogs. And so we really, we bonded over our love of our four-legged friends. And later when she said, you know, hey, would you consider coming to work for Reed Smith? She really presented it in a way that focused on my trajectory as a lawyer and how I can grow and learn new things, but also be very successful and help the firm. And framing it that way, how I can be helpful, useful, and still grow alongside a really great team was what won the over. 

Lauren: Oh, it sounds like just a great fit, both personally, professionally. So once you made it to Reed Smith and joined the team, what did you like best about your practice here? 

Doug: My favorite part of my practice while at Reed Smith was the quality of the clients. Phenomenal companies of all sizes, led by extremely intelligent, caring executive leadership teams and general counsels. And I felt like I was a real business partner. It wasn't just a service provider pulled off the shelf and pointed in the direction of a problem here and there. I was really providing a valuable service to their company and helping them operate and navigate in the world. 

Lauren: I feel like that is a theme that comes up in a lot of the discussions we have with our alums, that they felt like they were really partnering with the clients and being legal advisor, business advisor. So it's interesting that you said that. And so it sounds like you were doing great at Reed Smith, you were enjoying it. You did make the choice to move on to your current role in-house. I'm curious how that happened and how you made that decision. 

Doug: So in 2022, Intel 471 approached me looking for a general counsel. Specifically, they wanted a general counsel who had an eye for the strategic side of the business and also knew how the private equity growth lifecycle for corporate investment worked so I could help them scale the business. Expand globally, manage risk, and keep things organized. I really bonded with the executive leadership team at Intel 471, and when they laid out for me the plan that they had for the company and all of the good they wanted to do by expanding our product offering, by owning our intelligence gathering, by expanding our audience, And it really struck a chord with me that I could have a massive impact on this business and really work alongside it. Incredibly talented, motivated professionals. It was really difficult for me to leave Reed Smith because I finally found a rhythm of practice at a firm where I felt like I could succeed very authentically. I didn't have to decide my personality or fit into a particular mold or look a certain way in order to be successful. And I think that's also a product of the legal industry as a whole really evolving and appreciating the diversity of thought that comes from individual authenticity. And leaving Jen's team and also leaving behind the team of junior lawyers that I had mentored and trained was frankly quite heartbreaking, for lack of a better word. But when I thought about what I personally wanted out of my life and my career, I thought, you know what, I'm willing to take a big risk. I'm willing to go into something where I know I'm going to have to start from square one on a lot of things and be a student again. And for me, that was extremely enticing. I know that's not the case for everybody, but for me, that was incredibly attractive. And I did seek advice from a ton of people. I spoke to my parents, neither of whom are lawyers. I spoke to mentors that I had gained over the years, including folks who are partners in other law firms, old professors, and just friends and neighbors. So I really solicited advice from my entire community of support, and it was very useful to me. 

Lauren: Sounds like a tough decision. And you mentioned consulting with a lot of people. Did you talk to anyone at the firm? 

Doug: You know, funny enough, I had quite a few conversations with Jen about this decision, and she was incredibly supportive. I wouldn't have expected anything else, obviously, but her insight and her knowledge of me as a friend and colleague and lawyer was really meaningful. And she provided a fantastic soundboard and guide for helping me figure out what I really wanted to do as I developed my skills and my career. And she was obviously very clear about her bias. She wanted me to stay, of course. But when I finally told her, hey I'm thinking about I'm really thinking about leaving private practice and becoming a general counsel at Intel 471 she shifted her focus from helping me to make that decision to talking about how I could succeed in that role and the ease and sincerity with which she made that transition from helping me decide between to helping me think about how to knock it out of the park once I got there was phenomenal. 

Lauren: So interesting the way that that relationship, you know, just evolved, right? You were, you had several different roles vis-a-vis one another, but that personal connection that you built really, really helped both you and the firm. So I could ask you so many more questions about your, your practice and your transition and your current role. But I wanted to ask you about one of the themes that we've been sort of hinting around. And it's really a question that I think many of our audience of newer lawyers will have. And it's about the issue of well-being and setting boundaries as someone in a very, very busy practice. And so as someone who has been very successful, how would you advise a newer attorney to think about that? How can you kind of take care of yourself and set some boundaries while also giving it your all in an intense practice where, as you said, things are expected to be more or less perfect? 

Doug: It really is a delicate balance, and it's mostly an art. It largely depends on who you're working with, your team, your clients, and the circumstances that you're under. Some deadlines and fire drills are obviously unavoidable, and so it's all hands on deck. And everyone is kind of expected to make sacrifices for their time and predictability in order to make things work. I think a healthy way of approaching it is to maintain some perspective and humility, but also have a clear understanding of what's important to you and what you need for your physical, emotional, and mental well-being. So a good example is a document needs to get turned late one night because it has to be ready for the morning. On a team of four lawyers, if you're the junior most lawyer who's capable of turning that document, chances are you're going to be the one asked to do that. That's not just because no one else wants to do it and you happen to be the lowest ranking person on the team. And it's probably because there are phone calls or negotiations or meetings that are happening at the same time that your senior associate or your partner or your colleague is handling. And so the work, especially in a high-pressure situation or when there's urgency, is divvied up among the team efficiently as a unit. And so it's important to accept that that's going to happen and expect it and try to plan around it and to be organized. On the other hand, it is absolutely essential to be comfortable raising your hand and communicating with your team. Part of this comes from developing a great working relationship with them generally, hopefully a friendship and a relationship of mutual respect and genuine care. But they won't know that something is important to you or is bothering you if you don't raise your hand and say something. A really good example is a lot of times when I've been working, sometimes I had to go home at a certain time in the evening, quite early actually, to walk my dog because my dog walker couldn't make it back for a second walk that day. And rather than just say, hey everybody, I'm going to leave at six, I'll be back at seven, I said, hey, team, I have to go. I'm going to go walk my dog. I'll bring back coffee on the way. I'll be out of pocket, but don't worry. I'm not just signing off. And to me, that was very important because I love my time with my dog. But it was also important for my team to know, hey, I'm not just dropping off the face of the map. And if something happened, they knew that, hey, this was a priority for me. And so somebody could step in and help. 

Lauren: Well, I think that's really good advice. And to your point about perspective, right? Making sure that you're taking a step back, thinking about relationships, about organization, and about planning. So thank you so much. I think that that's, it's a helpful example. And I'm laughing because I noticed that your cat is in the background. I guess you like both dogs and cats.

 Doug: Yes, I actually spent a lot of time now with my girlfriend doing animal rescue. And so we do quite a lot of cat rescue here in Brooklyn.

Lauren: Your office mate was very cute to have in the background. Well, Doug, again, we could talk for much longer, but thank you so much for being with us, for sharing your story, and for sharing so much wisdom on how you got where you are today, including a pass-through time as an associate here at Reed Smith. And thank you all for listening to this episode of Reed Smith's Alumni Career Footprints podcast. We hope that you'll join us on a future episode. And thank you again, Doug, for being with us. 

Doug: Thanks for having me. 

Outro: Career Footprints is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, PodBean, and reedsmith.com. To learn more about Reed Smith's Alumni Network, or if you're an alum of the firm who wants to share your career story, contact me, Reed Smith's Global Senior Director of Alumni Relations, Laura Karmatz, at alumni@reedsmith.com. 

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. All rights reserved. 

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