Episode 6 - Dr. Batsheva Guy - Diversity, Equity and Inclusion

Dr. Batsheva Guy is one amazing woman with determination and dedication not only in her personal life but in her professional life. She specializes in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion consulting. She is highly educated; she is a mother but most importantly Sheva is a person that wears her heart on her sleeve and is honest. This was a one-of-a-kind conversation that is worth listening to.

 

Leighann Lovely  00:19

If you are an HR professional, business owner or at the operations level trying to understand what people want. You may be struggling, our systems have been shocked practices have been questioned and culture is the leading conversation. Let's learn how culture is created, sustained, and why it should be the leading conversation when discussing hiring, training and retention. This is the foundation of any business and it's time to address it. So tune in to Let's Talk HR humanizing the conversation. We tackle topics that influencers of change need to understand and struggle to overcome every day, such as where to start, and what the new workforce wants and how to attract and keep positive momentum going. I'm your host Leighann Lovely.

 

Leighann Lovely  01:06

Today I have the privilege and honor of speaking with an amazing strong woman, Dr. Batsheva Guy is a change management consulting Senior Associate, a Diversity Equity and Inclusion consultant, and participatory action researcher. She is an alumnus of the educational and community based action research doctorial program at the University of Cincinnati, Sheva implements participatory and community based methods to engage and support diverse groups and advocate for inclusive and equitable practices in higher educational and healthcare institutions to drive change management. Sheva, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to talk with you. You have such an amazing background and you're so authentic and out there. So I'm really excited to jump in. Why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  02:08

Absolutely. So thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited. This is my first podcast. So I'm, I'm really pumped. Yeah, my name is Dr. Batsheva Guy, but everyone calls me Sheva. I'm also open to Bat that's also chill. So I currently am in an interesting spot because I am amidst transitioning careers. So I was in academia for 10 years, I was at the University of Cincinnati, throughout my undergraduate, my masters my doctoral degree, and I worked primarily in educational development, Student Affairs, and diversity and inclusion work. So really, the backbone of what I do is diversity inclusion. And then the research side of things is I'm obsessed with participatory methods and participatory engagement. So that's kind of the crux of what I do. And so currently, I transitioned into consulting. So that's a little bit about my career. I'm also a mom, I've got three awesome kids, my two older sons were eight and nine. We adopted them in 2020. And then I had my daughter who's now two and a half in December 2019. So amidst the pandemic, we went from zero to three kids, my husband and I, it was a certainly an adventure, but it was a great time. Let's see what else I love to travel. I love to read love to cook. Some of the things I enjoy doing in my free time.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:42

Awesome. And you also have some amazing tattoos, which I have, you know, you were very open. I love the fact that, you know, you have pictures of them online, which is another great. This is another movement that I have seen, which is it was beautiful. I'm actually if people could see them there. They're absolutely beautiful. It's a form of of artwork. Definitely. So. So you you mentioned that you're amidst a career change. So where are you you know, headed right now. What's, what's this career change?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  04:18

Yeah, so I yeah, like I mentioned, I was at the University of Cincinnati for 10 years, you know, never honestly never thought that I was going to leave but then COVID hit and I realized there's a lot out there in terms of flexibility in work and being able to utilize my transferable skills, the great resignation and whatnot, all that fun stuff. I had a brief stint at a company I shall not name doing diversity and inclusion consulting work, but in a nutshell, they weren't ready for diversity and inclusion. They just weren't ready to really embrace it for everything that I was. So I started looking for something knew I was unemployed for a bit hung out with my family. And by happenstance came upon here on through LinkedIn. So as you mentioned, I'm super active on LinkedIn, talk about my tattoos and what it means to really be professional, not look, judging a book by its cover all of that fun stuff. So yeah, I'm pivoting and I'm doing change management consulting, which I feel like utilizes a lot of my skills in my past, like research data, participatory methods, integrating a lot of inclusive practice into that making sure that diverse populations feel included, feel a sense of belonging are able to bring their voice to the table and feel like they have access to that table. So even though it's a whole new world, I feel like everything I've done in the past has led me to this point. And yeah, I'm learning something new every single day, my team is awesome. But we have this little list of terms and acronyms that they use it at my company a lot. And I'm like turned into that all the time. Because I'm so new. I'm like, someone just said something, let me ping someone on teams are looking at this list to figure out what's going on. So it's definitely been a transition not without its challenges, but I was really lucky to have a ton of support, and find a place that really saw my skills as transferable and as, as a positive as opposed to oh, she's never done consulting before, we're not going to take a chance on her. So I'm very grateful for that

 

Leighann Lovely  06:26

Oh, that's awesome. And, you know, this is a world of definitely a world of pivoting and changing. And, you know, it's amazing over the last couple of years, how much we all have had to do that. The great companies out there are are realizing that they have to be able to pivot constantly in order to stay, I guess, stay in front of the curve as much as possible. So that's awesome. So you again, you mentioned that you are a mom, I like to always put that one first. As you know, I am a mother first. You know, I am I am a wife, and and then my career, but so you have three children. You mentioned that you No, I did not realize that while you became a mother of three, like all at the pretty much at the same time.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  07:16

Yep. Within months. Yep.

 

Leighann Lovely  07:19

Wow. So do you mind talking to me a little bit about that? I mean, did this or was this a whoops, we didn't realize or I mean.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  07:31

So it's like a risk was a really interesting story. So not to get into like the nitty gritty details, but my husband always struggled with fertility issues. And we had always talked even aside from you know, trying to have biological children fostering. And so we decided, you know, let's just go for it. Let's sign up for foster care classes. This was early 2019, maybe spring 2019. We're like, Let's go for it. So we started doing the foster care classes. Really awesome community. I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio, shout out to beat shakers, who got our foster care license through their phenomenal. And yeah, so we started pursuing our foster care license. And we were doing like, for the foster to adopt program. Knowing that the goal of foster care is reunification, not anticipating we'd be able to adopt anytime soon. I'm really just wanted to provide a home for kiddos that are in a transition period and just give them the love and support that they need. So we were doing those foster care classes. And it was actually and they were every and they were like every Saturday for several for a few months. Like they were intense, like all day. And it was actually the it was actually Mother's Day weekend that I was like, I was about to start birth control again. And I was like, I feel funny. I'm going to take a pregnancy test. So I still had a bunch of my old like, so I was taking pregnancy test constantly, when we're doing fertility. I was like, I'm gonna take a pregnancy test. So I took one, I took another one I took another and I was like this cannot like this cannot be happy. So I wake my husband up, I was like, hey, time for Tiger ready for foster care class, by the way, I'm pregnant. And so it was like it was one of those things where like, if you miss a class, you have to wait several months to be able to take it again. So we're like, Okay, we just found out that we're pregnant. And we have to get up at eight, like seven in the morning on a Saturday to get to this class that starts at eight or nine or whatever, across the city from us. And so we keep taking the classes, keep taking the classes, disclose to our social worker like hey, just you know, like we are expecting and we have to the class we're like, we're already in this like we're we can get our foster care license and then wait to foster kids or you know, do whatever. So, we got our foster care license, and I'm in August 2019. And I was due I was due January 2020. And So we got her foster care license August 2019. And we got asked to do a two week respite care for two boys that were five and six. And for those of you who don't know respite care is kind of kids that are in between foster homes or the Foster, there's a foster parent that maybe having a surgery or a major life event or is going on a trip, they can take the kids to have a transition place for up to two weeks. So they asked us and I said, You know what? I suppose like, I'm like, we'll be fine. Like, well, taking these kids for two weeks come to find out that their previous foster home, they were having some health issues, and they weren't able to continue to continue fostering them. So they were in respite care with us. They could find another foster home, sir with us. And we're like, Well, why? Because I guess we're only on the respite list because of the baby coming. And we said, Okay, this is ridiculous. Like these kids don't need to move again. They had moved like five times in the last year. Like crazy what these like awful what these kids have gone through. And so I'm like, they're staying here. They're not moving and going anywhere else. So they were with us. Ever since they've been with us ever since we I ended up having my daughter. Almost four weeks early. I went into labor on Christmas. 2019. So yeah, it was insane. It's like three in the morning, the day after Christmas was when I had my daughter. She wasn't due till like January 19 or 20th or something like that. So then, you know, the boys are in school in person in school, and I was on maternity leave. And then the week I was supposed to go back was March 13 2020. So that was the week that everything shut down. So I never came back officially, quote unquote, I'm doing air quotes from maternity leave. I was like, Okay, now I've got I mean, my husband, of course was there and he was he was working at the time. But once I came realize like, this is going to be like this for a while with the kids in virtual school and my daughter at home. My husband ended up quitting to become a stay at home dad and we just went to parents of three like that. And then that next November was when we adopted the boys. That is all 2020 Oh, my Oh, from OG between August and December 2019. One three months, one from zero children to three of them. It was

 

Leighann Lovely  12:26

wow, that's that is amazing. That I have no words for that that you and your husband are are amazing to to be able to take that on. I mean, that wow.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  12:42

You know, people's everyone says like, Oh, you're so amazing. You're so wonderful. And I'm like you should you need to be a fly on the wall and hear the chaos in the house. Like you won't call me amazing if you hear all the nonsense that goes. But yeah, it was definitely not how we planned to start our family. But it worked out perfectly. The boys have been with us for several years now. They're eight and nine. Yeah, and they're doing just they're doing fantastic. Like they're thriving. They're Yeah, they're doing great. They're amazing big brothers. My daughter is like obsessed with them like she does every I swear the reason why she like walked so early talked so early is because of I swear it's because of them, like mimicking them and wanting to be just like them.

 

Leighann Lovely  13:24

That's great. That's absolutely awesome. And what a role model that these boys and your little your daughter is going to have is somebody who's, you know, out there being so authentic and you know, wanting to help and you know, change the views of the world to try to, you know, help with inclusion and diversity. And so let's let's, you know, you are a very outspoken woman, you're, you know, willing, willing to say what everybody in the room is thinking. And I love people like that, because I have a tendency to be that person as well at times. And sometimes my husband looks at me and goes, you did and and I'm like, oh, oh, oops, sorry. I'm not the only one thinking it. Right. Right. So let's talk a little bit about that. Let's talk a little bit about some of the things that you've you that you, I guess, say that everybody's thinking.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  14:23

Yeah, so I Yeah, I'm definitely I'm transparent, honest, authentic. Like, I feel like I there I feel like there's so many people out there that feel like they have to hide who they really are in a professional space. And I I personally I can't work that way. I was trying to be really intentional because at my university, I felt like I could be the where I was working. I felt like I could be authentic and I really wanted to find a place that embrace me for all of what I was. So there's a lot of things that I shout about one of them as you mentioned being tattoos like I've got a chess piece I've got a sleeve You're like, my arms are probably going to be my back is covered like everything. I mean, I've got lots of tattoos, I've got piercings, I've got all of it. And that doesn't change who I am as a professional person, I have a Master's, I have a PhD, I do continuing education, like, none of that has, like has anything to do with you know what I can do, right. And some other aspects that I like to talk about a lot is mental health. I have anxiety, I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, I have some PTSD symptoms, I've struggled with an eating disorder, and none of that. And because I feel like because I persevered through that I am better at my job, I'm able to take care of my kids and understand what they're going through at a level that I'm proud of. And I embrace all of those labels, because that's who I am. And I understand when people don't want to talk about it, it. It's not everyone's journey to be that loud person. But I feel like by being loud about these things about what really makes people professional and what makes people even better at what they do, you know, I feel like that. I feel like it helps others in a way, like being able to hear someone else that has gone through what they have gone through. And say like, Hey, this may be a label, but it's not who you are, it has made you stronger, and we shouldn't be afraid to talk about it. Because this is our whole lives. Like I may come into work one day, and you know, I'm having a really bad anxiety day. Right? And I want to be off camera. Like that should be cool, right? Or I want to work remote that day. If I'm not normal job, that should be okay. As long as I'm doing my job, right. I always follow through, I do what I have to do I meet my deadlines. I go above and beyond. And I have multiple diagnoses. And I've got a bunch of tattoos. Whatever, you know, who cares

 

Leighann Lovely  16:58

We are not one thing. We are like an onion, we are multiple layers of a whole bunch of different things. And if we were only one thing, wouldn't that kind of be boring?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  17:10

Exactly. Exactly. And like, yeah, and I feel like one of one of the other things like I told him, You know, I, I talk about a lot of things like on LinkedIn, especially that like can skirt the line between Oh, is that getting too political is like getting to this or that. But we live in this. We live in a world where we can just decide like what goes on despite what's going on in the world. Right? Like, like so like, socially, politically, all of it like with all the shootings that have been going on in the US, how am I supposed to continue quote, unquote, business as usual, when I'm terrified for my children going to school every day, I'm afraid for my black sons who walked down to the bus stop, what can happen between the House and the bus stop? What's going to happen to them at school, you know, those are things that I can't help but bring with me every day. But I feel like it allows me to see to to have a perspective on diversity and inclusion in the workplace, that if I wasn't bringing that to work every day, I wouldn't be able to do the work that I do.

 

Leighann Lovely  18:19

Right? We're no longer living in a time period of the Leave It to Beaver where the you know, the dad comes home from work and drops his his briefcase at the door, and all of a sudden is a family man. And the reverse where he goes to work and he's the businessman. The line has now bled into both we are who we are. And we need to be because trying to compartmentalize those two different, you know, areas, or those two different lives is unhealthy. First of all, trying to be a different person at those two different places all the time. It's it is truly unhealthy. You're you're constantly trying to put up a barrier. And it just it's not sustainable. It's not. Right. And it has proven time and time again, that the more authentic you are, the more people want to be around the authentic people. Right? That the more and I've seen this as a salesperson, the more authentic I am in front of my clients and my customers, the more they want to work with me and the more they appreciate working with me. So I can't be my authentic self if I'm not being my whole self, the whole person I am which means that there are times that I'm going to talk about my daughter there's times that I'm going to talk about this puppy I just recently got that won't stop biting me line that everybody thinks exists. It is now bleeding over into you know everything. I can no longer walk in, drop my baggage and say okay, I'm now working Leighann, And as far as the way that we look and the way that we're past the whole idea that you have to wear this pressed suit that starched and, and be, and that's what's going to be the professional, I see people come into professional meetings all the time wearing jeans and a nice shirt. I see professionals all the time wearing a variety of, there's no long we're not living in a day where you have to wear stockings with a dress, and women wear skirts and men wear suits and tights. That's not how business is conducted anymore. And I think that over the last two years, with us sitting in our homes, and half the people, you know, stand up and they're wearing pajama pants proves that we can do our job without putting on this uncomfortable suit. To do the job. Oh, yeah. And that. Right. And we, as a society have so long talked about, oh, the arts, you know, you know, you go to an art show, and oh, the arts are so wonderful. Well, who's to say that art has to be done on one, you know, art can be anything, I could think that art is beautiful on whatever your chosen art form is? If that is tattoos, if that is piercings if that is, I don't know, painting your dog blue. Again, I have dogs on the ring. If that's right, right. If that is your chosen form of art, as long as it is not hurting anybody, ethical moral, all of those not illegal, then, why are we judging other people? Right? We have sold it that has nothing to do with how we do business. It is simply and it has nothing to do with intelligent level and has nothing to do with anybody not being able to do a job. So get over yourself people, right?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  21:58

I completely agree with that notion. This is what I tell my kids to like, the biggest thing is to make sure that you are keeping yourself safe and that you're not hurting anybody. Like all of the rules in our house are based around that like respect and safety. And, you know, none of my tattoos are offensive. Heck, this sleeve is from a children's film that's from Alice in Wonderland. Like my entire arm is from Alice in Wonderland. Right. So yeah, that's my thought too. Like, I curse like a sailor. But I'm not saying any words to hurt anybody. I'm saying it because I stub my toe or because I'm excited. Right, like, and so that's also you know, what I what I kind of instill in my children is, is Yeah, express your creativity, you know, be open as long as everyone's as long as someone's getting hurt, and you're not hurting anyone. Good. Go for it, do it. Show yourself as who you authentically are. And I agree to that. COVID like has blurred the lines so much between like, what is work and what is personal life, like the other day I was on a call and I mentioned to you earlier that I'm we're potty training our two and a half year old and she just like decided to open my office door without pants on and just start running around. And I was meeting with like, I was a it was a director or managing director at Huron. I can't remember who it was at the time. But this has happened a couple of times, but also, okay, like, this is cool. And they were like, it's so chill. Like, I have a three-year-old or whatever. It's not a big deal. I get it, you know? And so I just got up and I closed the door and was I wearing yoga pants? Yes, I was was I wearing pajama pants, maybe one of those two was definitely my MO and I'm still doing my job. You know, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And really what I care about people like that's like the crux of like, everything that I do. And so as long as I'm demonstrating that I think being authentic, you can do an even better job connecting to people, as you mentioned by being authentic. Right?

 

Leighann Lovely  23:58

Right now as we sit, I am sitting in my my studio and behind me is my my child and I's art room. And I have a bunch of drawings that her and I did together. I love it. Right? I mean, I I'm not I suppose I can put up a you know, a curtain and I do have curtains for certain meetings, but I'm not you know, this is this is me. This is my daughter and eyes, you know, and sometimes it's a talking piece. I've had kids, like you said, I've had guests, kids pop in there and they all of a sudden they're like, oh, there's Mickey and I'm like, oh yeah.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  24:36

She'll go Mickey Mouse Minnie Mouse.

 

Leighann Lovely  24:40

Right, This is this is where my studio is. It's the only place that I have actual privacy in my home. So yep, you know, it is what it is and we've seen now what I can't remember which it was a news caster. He was doing an ad Interview. And his this was like a live interview and his daughter came running in. And there was nothing that he could do. And yes, and then you see his wife come running down. And she literally, like slid into the room on her knees trying to stop the young children. And then later, he actually did. Okay, let's redo this. But let's properly introduce my family instead of this, like chaotic moment happening. I think that was an eye opener for the country. It was, oh, we have personal lives behind that closed door. There might be chaos inciting. And I think that we all we've all experienced it, where we're like, oh my gosh, is that door about to open? Because I can hear them behind it. And it's like, and, and like you mentioned, you know, your, your two-year-old in a two and a half year old potty training, hey, I've got a I got a four year old. So yeah, that was all happening in my house, you know, during the pandemic, where I'm like, Oh, my God. And, and again, my daughter loves to run around the house naked, you know, getting ready for bath, and she's just like, I want to be naked. And I'm like,

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  26:13

Yeah, she's like, let's go. No Clothes run around. Right?

 

Leighann Lovely  26:18

If it wasn't, like, inappropriate for adults, I think we'd probably do it too.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  26:25

That's why we weren't comfy clothes. Like we want to be comfortable. Right? Right. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to be comfortable.

 

Leighann Lovely  26:32

You know, that's, that's what life is all about. It's, you know, let's find our comfort zone. And, and now it's finally blood over. But we have proven that we can do our job while life is happening.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  26:48

Yep. Yeah. And yeah, I feel like companies either have embraced it and said, like, yeah, like, Let's go all in on this and realize what this means for the future of work, or they have tried really hard to keep things the same. And I think that's the difference between a great company and a not so great. Company, right? Because you have to embrace the change and be adaptive.

 

Leighann Lovely  27:14

Absolutely. So on that topic, I would like to talk a little bit, you know, more specifically about the kind of work that you're doing. So yeah, you mentioned, you know, the participatory, you know, coaching and tell me a little bit more about how that, you know, works for you. And, you know, a little bit more about how you work with individuals, or before I got ahead of myself and say something that's not even in line with it, why don't you tell me a little bit about, you know, the specifics of the consulting that you do?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  27:49

Yeah, so I'll just kind of go back a little bit. So action research is, and participatory methods is what I got, is essentially what my doctorate was about what my dissertation and participatory methods like, it sounds like this, like big like academic speak. And it's really not, it can be used for academic research, which I have done. But it can also be used for cultural change, program development, change management, which is the field that I'm in now. And really just an I mentioned, like, people being the heart of everything that I do, and participatory methods really, in, in a nutshell, or in like, the simplest terms is making sure that all stakeholders are involved in included in decision making processes, and are able to provide feedback. So using participatory methods is a great way to keep multiple folks at all levels of an organization engaged, consistently asking for feedback, and using that feedback to take action and creating positive change. So it's really about it's not like me swooping in to an organization saying, okay, so this is all that's wrong. And this is what we need to change. And this is how we're going to do it. It's collaboratively working with folks that are in an organization from the Vice President and leadership all the way down to frontline workers, right? Every single voice is equally important. And every voice has a different perspective to bring and how we can leverage the positive aspects of what's happening in our organization. Right. So I never worked from a deficit model, and say, Okay, so these are the great things that our organization has to offer. And these are our gaps. So how can we take what's great about what we do and our people and our mission and use that to create action items to fill those gaps? So yeah, it's really collaborative. very inclusive, because it asked questions like Okay, is everyone at this everyone that needs to be at the table at the table? If they're not at the table, what are some equity issues, what's causing them not to be able to be at the table, once they're at the table, do they feel like they belong, and they can actually share their voice on what's going on. So it's very people centered, humanistic, engaging, and you have to be authentic throughout the process you have to be. So it's a very collaborative process. And you I was mentioning having to be authentic, because if you're not authentic with the stakeholders you're working with in an organization, then then you're not going to get that buy in, they're not going to trust you, they're not gonna want to implement whatever processes you suggest. And then everything just falls apart

 

Leighann Lovely  30:35

So you actually, your organization that you work for, is, is brought in, as a consulting company in my understanding this, right, and you go and you actually work with them, because they're interested in in changing the world, or figuring out how to better the culture at their organization.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  30:56

So here on actually, so that's just like the basics that are not the basis but like what I've done related to participatory research, I'm on week six of my work with her on. And I'm really hoping to be able to bring those participatory aspects into the work that here on the great work that Aaron's already doing. But I am actually on a team. And what Huron typically does is they work with higher education and health care and other organizations and institutions to implement large scale technology implementations. So I'm on the change management side. So not like a que I'm not a techy person, like, I'm not that like it kind of technical person on the team. But I feel like the change management team and the change management folks are really at the core of change happening, because we're the ones that are on the ground, gathering the feedback, seeing how things are going, providing training. And again, like that feedback loop that I was talking about making sure we're consistently getting that feedback from stakeholders, not to pick on Okay, to kind of pick on

 

Leighann Lovely  32:01

The number one organizations out there that need help our higher education and healthcare. Totally, I mean, I feel like there, then there's, there's a couple other ones out there that I can pick on, but I'm not going to I'm only because you brought those up. But yeah, I feel like I feel like healthcare is is always because they're so huge. Because they're, you know, you've got some of the the major massive companies and I can, you know, like, in here in Milwaukee, you've got like freighters and it's just this massive view of a company. And it's like, how do you even begin to help them change that culture and to, you know, make it more inclusive and make it so that the people at the top the people who have the ability to start making those changes, know what the people on the ground level, the people who are feeling, you know, the strains every day are being heard. And it sounds like that's, you know, what? It's like a software that that they can actually be able to be okay.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  33:13

Yep. And yeah, and I had cloud. Yep. Yeah. And I feel like,

 

Leighann Lovely  33:17

though, that is the type of companies that really need the help, Sam, with higher education companies, I feel like for being in the education world that they are worlds behind where they should be, you would think that they would be on the cutting edge all the time, because they're supposed to be, you know, spinning out people who are on the cutting edge of their education. Right. But I feel like internally, they're constantly struggling with that. And I, again, I don't know, the inner workings of the higher education systems, but I just feel a lot of people get very frustrated from what I've heard, from the higher education and from and from the local school, just regular education. I mean, just general school systems. It's, that's just seems backwards to me, you would think that those that that education would be at the cutting edge of of cultural change.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  34:25

Yeah, I like so. I like to describe it and I said this before and like in a variety of like different settings and contexts. But the way that I describe it just coming from a background in higher education, is that universities, they are businesses and I think he even said like I think even said company or business like in relation to that. So universities are businesses are private or private businesses, revenue, their revenue generating businesses that are masquerading as nonprofits and quite free frankly, paying their employees barely livable wages at, at best. And that's, you know, those are the people, the faculty, the staff that are supposed to be educating, you know, our next generation of leaders right are being paid quite frankly, in an embarrassing amount of money not and that's not even touching on how much K through 12 educators are making, right? I mean, it's, it's insane. So until we get to the point where we truly can demonstrate that we value, the folks that are working in education, it's just gonna, I mean, it's gonna keep falling apart the way that it is. And that was one of the reasons why I loved higher education was like, I thought I was going to stay forever. I just loved my students, I was invested so much in them. And I realized, like, when is the time to invest in myself, though. And from moving from, I was a program director, making $60,000 as a program director, with two direct reports

 

Leighann Lovely  36:07

with your doctorate with your PhD.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  36:11

And I'm very transparent about that, too. That's one of the things that I shout about is like, we need to be transparent about what we're getting paid. Because if we're not, then women are going to continue to get under underpaid people of color are going to continue to get underpaid black women are gonna continue to get underpaid, if we're not talking about it. So So I shout about it. So I within I mean, after, after that, I managed to double my salary, and then some with the benefits that I have now within a year by moving sectors, so you're gonna keep seeing this great resignation of people leaving higher ed, until we see them really put their money where their mouths are and show their educators that they value them and they want them to stay.

 

Leighann Lovely  36:52

Well, and I think that we're going to see, I, in my personal opinion, I think that we're going to see higher education start to crumble, because less and less companies are putting as much emphasis on higher education, because I think, in part there, they're failing at preparing individuals for the true workforce. They are, they're creating a group of individuals who are great at memorization, great at passing tests, but not great at being prepared for Hey, howdy. And not in every not in. Let me preface this by saying not in, not for every program, but there are programs out there that they're like, Okay, make sure that you can pass this test, all you have to do is go and read this book, memorize this book, and come and pass the test. But that does not prepare them for being in the workforce where you can't read a book, and know how to do your job. It's you have to be able to think for yourself and problem solve. And I'm not sure that the education program is teaching those those skills. I mean,

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  38:03

yeah, and I so it's interesting. So I come from a very privileged place, considering where I came from. Because the one thing I will say, and I mean, I again, like I love working for the University of Cincinnati, like I still stay connected with so many folks there. I, we got, we're really lucky. There we are. And I was really lucky there because one of the big big cells of students coming to University of Cincinnati is the Cooperative Education Program. I was in I was within the College of Engineering. Before I left and students like I will tell you, they got like that real world, like you had to Co Op, like every other semester with I can't remember exactly the rules off the top of my head. That was one of the things that got washed away. I loved but like they had to call, they had to go in and do the real work. Get that real world experience, get those internships and they weren't paid, which is great. So there are there is some there were definitely flaws in the system. And I do agree with you that there is a lot of like, especially, you know, if we're talking about like students that are trying to get into grad school or med school, like they need to get A's, right. So their biggest concern like yeah, they want to get the real world skills, but they need to get those A's too, because it's so competitive. And I think the the vision of like a holistic application review doesn't really exist yet. People are looking at the test scores, like like I said, like I have a PhD and I'm like the worst test taker ever. Terrible. So there's definitely something to be said about, like needing to get more holistic when we're evaluating our students.

 

Leighann Lovely  39:35

I have test anxiety. Now I went to I took a majority of the classes that I took was not about taking a test it was about here, you need to go and write a paper on this. It has to be at least, you know, I think it was 1515 pages long typed. And you have to like you actually had to do the work and research it That was just an a weekly, weekly, we had to turn in a paper on subtopics, you had different topics to choose from based on whatever we were doing at that time. And then on top of that, you were also had to participate in different programs throughout the week. So it was a ton of work. I also was working full time during the time that I was going for my bachelor's degree in Human Resource Management. Now, I at the end of that had learned so much. But if I would have said, if they would have said, here, you got to take a test now I would have been like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, I got tested anxiety, but the amount that I learned and having to do my own research, and then turn around and write an entire paper, minimum 15 pages long typed, was insane. I mean, now that right there, I think is way more valuable than sitting your your, your, your class down and saying, Okay, now take a test on what we just learned. Because now you have created two things they have learned the skill of researching on their own to, they're going to retain a heck of a lot more of that information. Because they've had to find the information on their own. And it's usually

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  41:12

It's what they care about to write, and they're finding something they care and that's 100 or so I teach to I teach psychology and like, so I teach like, the aspect of like, how we like remember things and how we what encoding is like and how, like doing these real world things are the things that are going to help you remember them and that like just what you're describing is exactly how I teach my classes like I give like occasional like quizzes on some reading material. But I don't give tests like it's always papers. And it's always about what do you want to learn about? What do you want to take out of this class, you have to research it. And you have to give me like, it still needs to be robust, but and like my students love it. They really I think they do they seem like they do. Right?

 

Leighann Lovely  41:51

Even when I was at WCTC going for computer programming, I remember I had to write I mean, this was a monster paper. For my final it was my final exam, I had to write a paper and I had to write, I had to, like multiple things to choose from. And my choice was the, the history and progression of the original computer. So where it originated from up until the point and this was in 1990. No, this was in 2000. So it was basically the beginning of where the original when the original computer was created all the way through where we were at that time. And this, this was a massive paper. So I mean, it was so much research going from, you know, the very first computer and it was so exciting to me, because I was really interested in it. And so it was so easy to write. And that for you know, for people to be able to choose their topic, obviously within the realms of what you're learning, but then to do the research, and it teaches individuals to And nowadays, you know, easy it is to do research. Hey, Alexa, hey, Google, Hey, Siri, hey, tell me about this. Either way, they're still doing research. They're still asked, they still have to ask the right questions. We've gone off on a tangent, which, you know, I'm like, so I'm big on that. I always go off on a sort of, it's like, no worries, no worries. But I mean, it's just, yeah, higher education always gets me it gets me going. Because I believe that it's important. But I also believe that there are there are gaps that need to be addressed. So well. So we are we are coming to time. This season. I am asking everybody, you know, a question of the season. That's my thing. So I'm going to ask you the question of the season. If you could go back to your younger self and give yourself advice. When would you go back? And what advice would you give yourself?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  43:57

Mm hmm. And I know like you send me this question, and I still have like so many different ways I could go with it. But I think what I would do is I would actually go back just because I have so many years of education under my belt. I would go to like my little like first year undergrad, little Sheva, who was pre med and was trying to double major in biology and psychology and like neuro psych or, like, do all this stuff. I would tell her to just honestly trust the process like I my life and my career has gone in so many zigzags. And at every turn, I'm like, Okay, this is going to be the next thing that I'm doing forever. This is going to be the next thing I'm doing forever. And I never just trusted that I would find my way naturally as opposed to trying to force things right. I was trying to force everything and force like myself into a box. So I would say just be open to opportunity. Embrace it, and not worry about necessarily every second where you're going to be 10 years from now, right? Just take it as a learning opportunity. And yeah, just just embrace the different things that will come your way. Because if I didn't, if I, I feel like I was always thinking, like, so many years in advance, as opposed to now thinking, Where am I at now? And how can I become an a well rounded person and who I am now as opposed to constantly worrying about what's next? So and then I would also say get on anxiety medication sooner. Get on that Zoloft. It'll help you go home go to therapy.

 

Leighann Lovely  45:48

I think we all would, I think we all would say that to our younger, hey, stop stressing get on that zone.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  45:55

Like, yeah, get on that Zoloft. Like calm down. It'll work out, you'll figure it out. Like never in a million years, would I have thought that I would be in consulting right now, right. But my 18 year old self was like, I need to know what I'm doing and like, in 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, and it's gonna stay like this. And it's going to be done. Like with like, the 10 year plan and all that. You just have to let go sometimes?

 

Leighann Lovely  46:17

Well, and, and I think that at a young age, you know, even when we're in high school, like when we're we're what freshmen and then sophomore, and they're like, Okay, well, what do you want to be when you grow up? Are you getting the good grades so that you can, you know, start filling out college applications, and we aren't so early, I know. And that's why so many students are like, Oh, my God, oh, my God. And how many people actually, you know, other than overachievers like you who get your PhD, how many people go to college, get an education, and then actually land in the field that they got the education in, unless you are very intentional. And again, you know, a lot of people end up just going for a general education, because they're like, I'm 18 years old, I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. And then they're, and then they're, you know, 30 years old, and they're like, I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. And then they're 35. And they're like, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. I love what I'm doing right now, is this what I want to be when I grow up? You know, I mean, there's a lot of you don't have to know, you don't. But hey, if you can, if you can enjoy life and enjoy your job and continue to go with the flow, great. If you want to be extremely intentional and and follow a very specific path. That's also great. So to anybody who's listening, you, you don't have to choose immediately. You can be intentional about not choosing, you can be intentional about choosing. There's multiple ways that you can I started going to school for accounting, then I switched to computer programming. Then I switched to my bachelor's in, you know, in human resource management, so

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  48:11

yep. It's all crapshoot like it. Like really? Then yeah, and I'm not in the field that I ever thought I was going to be in. And is it exactly what I studied for? No, but does it relate to a lot of the skills that I picked up along the way? 100% Yes, so. And this year, my goal honestly, like now that I've like started a new career, my goal is to learn as much as I can, and my new career path and my second goals, because I'm coming up on 30 in September, and my goal is to learn how to ride a bike. That's my goal of the year because I never learned so that's my goal the year you've ever learned to ride a bike. My parents never I blame my parents. So we never learned and that's what that's what I'm going to do this year. That's my like, big goal, the year we'll learn how to ride a bike.

 

Leighann Lovely  48:55

Make sure that you take videos of your progress.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  48:59

It'll be on LinkedIn, you know, oh, no quote or something,

 

Leighann Lovely  49:04

right? You're never too old to learn something. Never.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  49:09

Never. Never.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:10

That's awesome. Hey, I want to I know how to ride a bike. But every time I get on it, I'm like, why am I doing this?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  49:19

Yeah, we're actually trying to learn this summer because we're going to the beach and all my kids, other than my youngest, but everyone else had to ride a bike and we're going to be like biking around so I need to learn so I told my husband I said I'll learn how to ride a bike if you get me a pink bike with a basket and he did so now I have to learn how to ride.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:37

Oh, that's so cute.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  49:40

So that's where I'm at.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:41

My daughter is now to an age where she she is requested. She's only four and she's like can I get a bike with training wheels and I'm we're like, seriously like you're ready for that already. She knows she's got the she's got the

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  49:55

one. Yeah, a little. Yeah, we Ellerbe Yeah. What a big wheeler.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:59

And she's She rides out round on a on a scooter thing but Jr she's got way too many toys like Yeah, I did not have like I have like two toys in my garage I had a big wheel bike thing. Then I had a bike eventually. I never I have she's the motorized car she's got the scooter she's got the bike she's got like, she's got like half section she's got almost like a a car space full of toys. This it's ridiculous.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  50:30

saying like, if at all.

 

Leighann Lovely  50:33

Like I would have I would have killed to have one of those little motorized cars where you sit down, you push the pedal and you drive around. I mean, she's only gone like, half a mile. Like, yeah, and it has a remote so that if she like goes the wrong direction I can like she gets really mad when I stopped driving my car

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  50:53

at it though. Oh, yeah.

 

Leighann Lovely  50:56

It's bright pink.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  50:57

Oh, yeah. Funny.

 

Leighann Lovely  51:02

Okay, well, hey Sheva this has been an amazing conversation. Oh, I've enjoyed it. You truly are an amazing human being not only the professional side of you know, the work that you're doing. But you know, on the adopting children, having three children in one year basically

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  51:21

sounds unreal. But no, I appreciate your kindness. And and thank you so much for having me.

 

Leighann Lovely  51:27

This has been awesome. If somebody wanted to reach out to continue a conversation with you. How would they go about doing that?

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  51:33

Yeah, hit me up on LinkedIn for sure. I'm listed under Batsheva Guy or Batsheva would work or Guy PhD something you'll find me I'm on there. You'll figure it out. So yeah, LinkedIn

 

Leighann Lovely  51:47

Excellent. Thank you so much.

 

Dr. Batsheva Guy  51:50

Awesome. Catch you later. Thanks so much.

 

Leighann Lovely  51:53

Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

 

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/batsheva-guy/

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