Once again, we find ourselves in the midst of the laboratory of the desert and watching the Fathers’ struggle with the passions, in particular the passion of fornication or lust. The beauty in this, of course, is that we are placed in the privileged position of seeing their struggle from the inside; dealing with both the passion and also learning how to engage in the ascetic life in a measured fashion.
It is made clear that we are to struggle with our whole being and to be fully engaged in the battle. On a physical level, this means r...
Once again, we find ourselves in the midst of the laboratory of the desert and watching the Fathers’ struggle with the passions, in particular the passion of fornication or lust. The beauty in this, of course, is that we are placed in the privileged position of seeing their struggle from the inside; dealing with both the passion and also learning how to engage in the ascetic life in a measured fashion.
It is made clear that we are to struggle with our whole being and to be fully engaged in the battle. On a physical level, this means restraining our appetites. We hear that the monks understood that they must not give themselves over to satiation in regard to bodily appetites. They must humble the mind and body in order that they might cling more to God in their prayer and trust in his grace. This meant, of course, the experience of privation; but it also opened them up to the richness of the interior life and the depth of prayer. Therefore, it was not just an act of endurance but also an expression of hope in God and his promises. More importantly we might say it is an expression of love. We are willing to make great sacrifices for the things that we hold to be precious. When we love God and the things of God, when we love virtue and prayer, we will do all in our power to attain it and maintain it.
With hypothesis 26, we begin to see the fruit of their long experience in the ascetic life. They could see that they often emphasized the wrong thing in the spiritual battle or became unmeasured in their disciplines to the point of losing sight of God. One can become so fixated on overcoming a particular passion or fighting with the thoughts of the demons, that they fall into pride by failing to emphasize the one thing alone that can overcome the demons, as well as draw the natural into the supernatural; that is, the grace of God. To say that Christianity is an ascetical religion is not to say that the discipline of such a life and the exercise of our faith is an end in itself. The end of our striving is love and and theosis – intimacy, union, with the triune God.
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Text of chat during the group:
00:08:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12
00:13:00 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 184, # 12
00:21:05 Adam Paige: “A clear rule for self-control handed down by the Fathers is this: stop eating while still hungry and do not continue until you are satisfied.” - St John Cassian, On the Eight Vices
00:21:43 paul g.: Reacted to "“A clear rule for se…" with ✔️
00:21:47 Bob Cihak, AZ: Thanks, Adam.
00:21:50 paul g.: Reacted to "P. 184, # 12" with ✔️
00:21:52 Phil: Modern medicine also says humans need 12 serving of carbs a day and half as much dairy. Bless their heart, they are trying! ... "Lord forgive them, for they know not what they do!"
00:23:30 Myles Davidson: Because people need differing amounts of sleep or food, what would you say is the thing we should be looking out for, to know we are getting the right amounts of both. Is it a clarity of mind and attention in prayer? Anything else?
00:26:16 Adam Paige: Reacted to "Thanks, Adam." with 👍
00:28:49 Andres Oropeza: Is it always a bad thing to derive comfort from food? I mean a hot meal is preferable to a cold one during winter especially. Or a hot drink really sets you at ease after being outside in the cold. Should we shun the comfort and just eat cold meals and drink cold drinks (or hot if the drink isn’t good hot). Or is the comfort only an issue when it becomes the point of eating?
00:30:48 Myles Davidson: There have been plenty of studies done on rats that reducing caloric intake extends life.
00:31:21 Adam Paige: “Stand at the brink of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it anymore, draw back a little, and have a cup of tea.” - Saint Sophrony Sakharov
00:36:03 Carol Roper: it seems like the issue is longing. to what do we direct our longing. Advent strikes me as a season of longing.
00:40:16 Myles Davidson: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer
00:40:37 Adam Paige: @Phil What was the name of that Elder with the stages of the Jesus Prayer Father Archimandrite Ilie Cleopa
00:40:42 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "@Phil What was the n..." with 🙏
00:44:04 Liz D: Reacted to "it seems like the ..." with ❤️
00:48:09 Phil: Yea, Ramana died in middle age, but his extreme fasting (starting in his teenage years) does seem to have shortened his life.
00:49:12 Phil: Replying to "@Phil What was the n..."
Yes, I believe that is him!
00:49:38 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, I believe that ..." with 👍
00:50:26 Phil: Yes, there are at least a half dozen videos on YouTube of Cleopa himself giving spiritual advice.
00:50:58 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "Yes, there are at le..." with 👍
01:03:20 Adam Paige: The Struggle with God - Paul Evdokimov (PDF) https://jbburnett.com/resources/evdokimov_strugglewGod1966.pdf
01:03:24 Phil: "The mystics are a law unto themselves." Fr. Anthony De Mello.
01:03:56 Myles Davidson: Reacted to "The Struggle with Go..." with 👍
01:06:07 Adam Paige: “It behooves us as well to destroy the sinners in our land-namely, our fleshly feelings-on the morning of their birth, as they emerge, and, while they are still young, to dash the children of Babylon against the rock. Unless they are killed at a very tender age they will, with our acquiescence, rise up to our harm as stronger adults, and they will certainly not be overcome without great pain and effort.” St John Cassian, The Institutes (6th Book: The Spirit of Fornication)
01:16:51 Maureen Cunningham: Thank You Father
01:17:15 Phil: LOL, that's great! Thank you, Father.
01:18:05 ANDREW ADAMS: Thank you, Father!
01:18:08 Rebecca Thérèse: Thank you🙂
01:18:13 Aric B: Thank you Father!
