Tribes, States, & Empires: Scripture’s Vision for a Virtuous Political Order (Yoram Hazony) Ep. #212

In this second conversation with political philosopher Yoram Hazony, we dive deeper into the biblical concept of nationhood, wrestling with listener-submitted questions on nationalism, empire, and political virtue. Hazony responds to critiques and clarifies his position: biblical nationalism is not about racial purity or imperialism, but about the virtue of limited, self-governing peoples—unified not by ethnicity but by shared laws, traditions, and faith.

Hazony distinguishes biblical terms like am and goy, explores the status of converts like Ruth, and dismantles the modern racialized understanding of nationhood. He emphasizes that scripture assumes nations will be internally diverse, but not infinitely so—there must be a dominant center that holds people together.

The conversation also explores why biblical literature, not Greco-Roman thought, shaped the American constitutional order, and why the prophets critique empire while affirming the need for some form of the state. As Hazony puts it, “Purity is not the goal. Faithful unity is.”

For the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy article Yoram mentioned in the interview, access the PDF here:
https://journals.law.harvard.edu/jlpp/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2025/06/Hammer-FINAL_TC-JH-YRH-edits.pdf

For more of Yoram's literature:
https://www.yoramhazony.org/
https://x.com/yhazony

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Chapters:

00:00 The Virtue of Nationalism
05:19 Understanding Nation in Biblical Context
10:42 The Role of Genetics and Kinship in Nations
15:25 Diversity and Unity in National Identity
20:09 Power Dynamics in Heterogeneous Nations
25:23 Biblical Foundations of Western Political Thought
38:14 The Christian Heritage of the West
41:15 Separation of Powers and the Mosaic Constitution
44:37 Separation of Church and State
48:29 The Concept of Empire
59:00 The Role of Kings and the State
01:00:17 Eschatology and the Future of Nations