Wayne Daniel on Rasing Over $250,000 in Under 8 Weeks (#009)

Raise $250,000 in under 8 weeks? No problem!

That's just one of the success stories Wayne Daniel from WAYSU Marketing & PR talks to us about in this episode of the Pocket Mastermind podcast.

Wayne also shares his career path that led him to setting up his own Marketing and PR agency and how WAYSU uses a full-service model to deliver incredible results for their clients.

You can find out more and view details of case studies at https://waysu.co.uk/

Transcript

[00:00:00] David: [00:00:00] Wayne, welcome to the Pocket Mastermind podcast. How are you?

[00:00:17] Wayne: [00:00:17] I'm good, thank you. Thanks for having me, Dave.

[00:00:19] Welcome mate.

[00:00:21] So you're

[00:00:22] David: [00:00:22] the founder, director of WAYSU, Marketing and PR. Um, but before we get into talking about. What WAYSU does and how you do it and what makes you guys different. I want to take it back to the start of your career.

[00:00:36] How did you get into, you know, a career within marketing PR in the first place? What, what attracted you into that and what kind of, what route did you take from making that decision to kind of where you are now.

[00:00:50] Wayne: [00:00:50] Yeah. And so I guess I've been quite lucky. I'm during my A Levels. I decided that I wanted to either do psychology or [00:01:00] marketing psychology cause I was watching a lot of, um, Robbie Coltrane in Cracker and I was studying A Level and I was doing business studies at A Level as well.

[00:01:11] So I had a chat with her. Um. A good few people who had taken both routes and it seemed that psychology seemed to be a lot of statistics a lot of theory, a lot of real, real scientific work, which wasn't how I had perceived it. So, um, I quite liked to advertise in branding consumer behavior. So I then literally.

[00:01:34] Did, um, a degree in marketing at the university of central Lancashire where I met some of my best friends for life. So, um, I've been doing marketing for over 20 years now. Um, thankfully for me in the 3rd year doing the traditional milk round, um, I applied for six or seven graduate jobs. And one of those was with Vodafone on a kind of [00:02:00] innovative, um, graduate scheme, which was over two years.

[00:02:04] I thankfully managed to get onto that scheme and I've been working in marketing ever since, growing and evolving through what was, um, offline marketing to a broad based digital marketing platform now. So you've seen quite a big change in the industry since you first started from, I guess a lot of more.

[00:02:25] David: [00:02:25] And when you say offline, I assume a lot of that's kind of a

[00:02:27] Wayne: [00:02:27] paper based, newspaper

[00:02:28] David: [00:02:28] based stuff. Outdoor stuff.

[00:02:31] Wayne: [00:02:31] Yeah.

[00:02:31] David: [00:02:31] So digital stuff, right?

[00:02:34] Wayne: [00:02:34] Absolutely. So when I first started, um, leaflets door drops as we call them, DMs were a big thing. Um, but now as you know, you get so many of them for your door. The, the rate of take up is quite poor, but the cost of them is so cheap.

[00:02:50] Some companies still finding them delivering a return on investment. Um, and just in terms of the cycle of where I've come from, I was there at the inception of [00:03:00] marketing on mobile phones. So those first chunky WAP phones back in the day, the pre G a GPRS days, I was actually doing some marketing for Vodafone on those um devices.

[00:03:14] So yeah, it has really come full circle and it's, it's been a really interesting journey to be quite honest.

[00:03:21] David: [00:03:21] And how long were

[00:03:21] Wayne: [00:03:21] you a Voda for?

[00:03:24] Um, I was at Vodafone for four and a half years. Um, interestingly working across, um, B to B, B to C, and doing some account management stuff, but mainly working on handset marketing.

[00:03:39] So at my age, at the time, it was really a really exciting and pivotable pivotable time for me to be involved. So we were working on, and not just consumers, so cutting edge retail store, what the these phones actually do, but also how do we market to consumers who've just bought these [00:04:00] phones so that we can push our services to them.

[00:04:02] So it was really cutting edge stuff. Very interesting.

[00:04:06] David: [00:04:06] And then where did you go from Voda and what was the, what was the motivation for the change.

[00:04:12] Wayne: [00:04:12] Yeah. So, so there the couple of motivations. So I've always said I want to keep things fresh. So, um, I left Voda and went to do some contracting work, first to expand my knowledge base, um, and then I wound up working in financial services marketing.

[00:04:34] Which again, in terms of where I've got to today and owning my own business has been absolutely invaluable because financial services marketing is a completely different set of parameters in terms of the target audiences and what emotional triggers you're trying to obviously, um, attach yourself to, in terms of the market.

[00:04:53] And so it was all quite different in the approach. So, yeah. Um,

[00:05:00] [00:05:00] David: [00:05:00] What would you say the biggest things you learned from that change in industry were. How did that, how did that add to, you know, the skills that you now. You now have, you know, getting, you know, like you just said, a range, a range of experience from different categories, kind of building in towards how that's become valuable now . What do you think those key things were?

[00:05:21] Wayne: [00:05:21] So one of them is a hundred percent a longer sales cycle. So. You're not very impulsively buying financial services and identity theft protection, which is one of the market services that we were selling. It's not an impulsive decision, whereas mobile phones and some of these fast moving consumer goods that I've marketed since such time are impulse based.

[00:05:44] So it's looking at different triggers in consumer behavior. It's also made me a lot more process driven as well because anyone who works in banking and finance understands that there are quite a lot of milestones and processes and [00:06:00] legal departments and risk teams to work with. Before you can put things to market.

[00:06:06] Um, and also working with regulatory bodies to understand what you can and cannot say in your claims. So it matured me a lot in terms of, um, my approach to marketing. I can't say it was as fun because it wasn't.

[00:06:22] David: [00:06:22] I've worked in financial services as well. It's certainly not the most fun arena, sorry to anyone who's working in financial services. It's a little more restrictive than telecoms.

[00:06:32] Wayne: [00:06:32] Yeah, but you can make it fun. You can obviously put different angles to it, as you know, there's certain companies in the market such as Compare the Market, for example, who put a different spin. I'm sure Direct Line and a couple of others have put their own spin on it. So yeah, it doesn't have to be, you know, that's one of the things I've been trying to instill in WAYSU is to bring back some passion and some fun and enthusiasm into what can be quite an stayed [00:07:00] transactional based, um, process driven service.

[00:07:04] David: [00:07:04] And then so other steps then along the journey from, from that point to where you are now, what w what were some of the key decisions that you've felt that you feel you've made on that journey, and what were the drivers behind those decisions? Did you kind of, did you know you at some point you potentially wanted to set up on your own?

[00:07:26] Or is that something that's grown over the time that you've. Uh, been we working throughout your career?

[00:07:33] Wayne: [00:07:33] No, it's a, it's a good question. I guess for me, I, I came to a decision a good few years ago that I didn't want to manage within a corporate structure, a team of 10 to 20 people. If I was going to run a team of 10 to 20 people, I wanted to do it my way.

[00:07:53] I didn't want the macro environment pressures and the minutias of HR and those [00:08:00] kinds of pressures, um, impacting on the way that I ran my team. So I quite early on, um, found myself quite niche roles where I could control agencies instead. So I would work with creative agencies, design agencies.

[00:08:15] Customer service and teams, and I would work with them and I would manage them kind of in a dotted line through to my management team. That is a skill that I've been able to hone and they've evolve and is definitely helping me in what I now do today because I'm my own boss now, so I have various different stakeholders, so I've got to understand the nuances of managing them in different ways.

[00:08:40] David: [00:08:40] So, again, going back to the financial services, managing large stakeholders is probably been quite beneficial from that standpoint. And then, like you say, managing remote, you know, virtual colleagues, I guess you'd probably call them, uh, has also been quite pivotal. Um, what do you think are some of the, [00:09:00] the, the, the key roles that have really made the biggest difference to get to get you to a point where you felt comfortable.

[00:09:09] Wayne: [00:09:09] Yeah.

[00:09:10] David: [00:09:10] And starting out on your own really. I think some people might be thinking, I've been in it, I've been in a career doing whatever, maybe doing exactly what you're doing for 10 or 15 years or so, and maybe have an ambition to start a business, but haven't really known what the, what the right point is, when is it okay to do that? When's a good time to do that? And what would you say to anyone who's potentially in that position, you know, what, what was that experience like for you?

[00:09:41] Wayne: [00:09:41] So it's interesting. So there's two. There's two ways that I could answer that. First of all is when did it start to potentially click for me and the confidence levels of how this might be something that I could do is, interestingly, when I met you in the company that we were at Virgin Media, and I found that the [00:10:00] teams and the individuals that I was working with at Virgin Media.

[00:10:03] We're full of brilliant minds, motivated people, best in class. Superb at trying to generate change and affect change before then. Um, in some of my roles it hadn't been like that, so I learnt a lot from them so that it became quite natural to me to work in a different type of way. So I would say that, um, yeah, working with different people, you obviously you don't want to be the cleverest guy in the room, but you also don't want to be out of your depth.

[00:10:33] So it was good to have that really good mix of people and characters and personalities and within Virgin, and I bounced and learn from them. Um, what I would say as a. Nice. Um, elevation to that is when I started working, um, for, um, Yell, they, is a very structured process driven environment. So it was very [00:11:00] focused on the sales and the ROI and sweating the dollar, so to speak. And although as an employee, sometimes that can be a little bit grating and it can at times be a little bit intense. I learned a phenomenal amount in that process and doing that role, which now I'm running my own business and having to account for every penny that we spend, and every client penny that we spend.

[00:11:28] That has been absolutely invaluable. So it's vast experience as well that if I hadn't heard that. It would have been very difficult for me to just flip the switch, go from what can be seen sometimes as cozy corporate life. Sometimes it's easy to find that you can find the niche and like you said yourself, you can be there for 10, 15, 20 years.

[00:11:47] Before you know it, you're 55 with gray hair wondering what the hell happened to your life.

[00:11:52] David: [00:11:52] Or no hair!

[00:11:54]Wayne: [00:11:54] Yeah. Yeah. I can choose to shave mine.

[00:11:59] David: [00:11:59] I [00:12:00] could claim the same if I sat like this.

[00:12:03] Wayne: [00:12:03] So yes, I would say that those two roles was super pivotable. Um, for me, in terms of. Um, the people who I met and then the processes that were underpinning what I was doing, um, the second company, Yell. In terms of what that advice would be in towards people who might want to take this jump themselves is, I think you need to be honest.

[00:12:30] You need a few things. You need confidence in yourself and your abilities. This isn't something that you can wing. Yeah. This isn't football. The territory where you've got a natural home skill and you can just phone it in. You really do need to have a skill and a trade and be able to evolve that skill and that trade so that you don't get left behind.

[00:12:52] I think, um, if you can juggle initially anyway, um, the, what some people would call the [00:13:00] side hustle or the, uh, additional revenue stream or the learning to set up your business alongside the day job, that would be a key piece of advice that I would provide. Definitely that takes a lot of the pressure off and you can find your feet in your own time and you've also got that support network that I talked about in the Virgin Media days.

[00:13:22] You've got that support network of people, while you're still working, who you can pick their brains, you can get ideas from them and you can say, these are the types of things that gaps in the market that I found there. I'm looking to launch this product, et cetera, et cetera, or get some feedback and support from them.

[00:13:40] And then the third one I would say is, um. You've got to look at capital. There's an, there's no point jumping into this with no money behind you at all, because again, it's all about you don't want pressure. Um, a good friend of mine talked about the best way out of the rat race. Is to actually accumulate [00:14:00] some property or some revenue or some, some income to be able to sustain you for that first three to six months when you take the leap.

[00:14:08] So even if you've got a cracking idea, you've got to have something behind you. For example, who knew that this pandemic was coming. For example, or if there's going to be a recession or if God forbid you or your partner fall ill, or the people who you're working with, you fall out with. You know, these, these unknown dynamics can drastically change what was a great business idea or a great business premise that you had can quickly change.

[00:14:37] So you do need some capital behind you.

[00:14:40] David: [00:14:40] What are some of the, the general skills that you've either. Found that you had and grateful for having, or maybe some, some of the skills that you've then developed since setting up on your own. That you didn't necessarily consider maybe beforehand, but you'd probably suggest that the [00:15:00] general skills, you know, that might apply to anyone who started thinking about starting a business themselves.

[00:15:07] Wayne: [00:15:07] That's a really good question. And there are a good few skills. I'll get. Try and rattle off a few quite quickly without boring anyone. But that's a really good question. So one of those would be the art of delegation. So people are quite happy to say, yes, yes, yes, I'll take that on, I'll do that. Such and such client is a really good client.

[00:15:29] I'll do those eight things. Yes, that's a really good supplier. I'll do those 20 things. But you've got to be able to not just prioritise, but delegate to other people. So in terms of push back and say, well, if you can provide me with X, Y, and Z, I can deliver by the end of the week. Um, if I defer that down to one of my specialists, and then I look at it at the 80% stage, that is better for everyone involved than me trying to take it on in the initial stage.

[00:16:00] [00:16:00] And also when you're like having a meeting with your specialist in terms of empowering them. That's what you've employed them to do is crack on and nail this. Google, problem or this Facebook marketing task or this coding issue with a client's website. You've empowered them to do that. Let them get on.

[00:16:19] Don't try and own it all. So I'd say delegation is key. Um, one of the things that I like to think that I've got is being able to articulate myself in a very clear and simple way. And as a business owner, that's key key to picking up business key to ensuring that your suppliers, your contractors, the people that you work with, interpret exactly what you need them to do.

[00:16:46] There was nothing worse than, as a small business owner having a meeting with someone on the Friday thinking they understood what you thought, and then them delivering something back seven days later and it's completely missed the brief. We don't have the time as a small business to go [00:17:00] back to the start.

[00:17:01] So being very clear and articulate what you want, it's not a natural skill to some people, but if you can develop some of those skills. There's lots of videos on YouTube in terms of voice projection understanding, breathing as you talk. That kind of stuff. It really does help. Um, and then one that I'm particularly good at is Excel. So I've never, I've never gravitated towards accountancy, bookkeeping or anything like that, so I've had to be quite

[00:17:34] David: [00:17:34] The natural home of a marketeer of course.

[00:17:36] Wayne: [00:17:36] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, in terms of just the things from um splitting out, um, itemising invoices, bookkeeping for my accountant, that stuff doesn't come naturally to me.

[00:17:51] I'm. I doer, in the creative sense, in the account management sense, in the content creation sense and the [00:18:00] team building sense, but in terms of, um, finance and those financial disciplines, that is something that I've had to learn on the job. So, um, yeah, YouTube and as I said, friends and colleagues or your friends, utilise them where you can to, to their strengths.

[00:18:19] David: [00:18:19] And I guess things like, um. Outsourcing that you just mentioned, the accounts and that kind of stuff is don't try and do everything and too much because you know you get completely snowed under.

[00:18:33] Wayne: [00:18:33] Yeah. So it's funny you should say that. That's, that's one of the things that I'm keen to instill in what we do about WAYSU is lots of our clients try and do it at all.

[00:18:44] So they're doing a little bit of social media marketing. They're trying to handle the customer database. They're tinkering around with their own websites, sometimes in a quite reasonably effective manner. Sometimes horribly. Um, they're not looking at, say, customer [00:19:00] journeys. They're not looking at lead generation.

[00:19:03] And then you've got clients who try and make their own logos. You've got clients who think that they're quite witty and very, um, positive in the approach to their products and where it might work on one social media channel, such as Instagram, it falls flat on LinkedIn. So it's my job as a marketing agency owner to take that stream and to clear that path for our clients.

[00:19:34] So we have the initial consultation with the clients where we listen to them and it's done what their problems are. So it's. We've got no voice in the market, or we're looking to launch this product, or people come to our website and they leave without buying anything, that kind of thing. And then as you listen to them, you understand that they are literally trying to do 30 different things.

[00:19:58] Between them and two or [00:20:00] three of us stakeholders, which is an impossible, an impossible thing to do for a small to medium business. So again, that plays back to one, that delegation, but two, having that skill to know, right, I need to outsource these particular elements and I need to let an expert in and see what they can do, which works quite well in my respect.

[00:20:21] David: [00:20:21] I think. Obviously the aversion of a lot of these things when you're starting a business or running one is trying to find ways of trying to not spend money in certain areas. But there are certain things like, you know, lead generation for one, probably being the most important, you know, it's the start of the funnel.

[00:20:41] Getting people through the door is probably where you want to be investing the time and the money, um, and getting the experts in because, um it's all good and well having a great team of people ready to serve customers, but if there aren't any your business falls flat on its face, I guess it's probably, [00:21:00] this is a good opportunity then to transition into talking a bit about WAYSU.

[00:21:06] Really kind of, wait, wait, wait, wait, how you got started and then what you, what you kind of specialise in and some key tips for, for people, where there's probably a an opportunity to do something a bit a bit better and how you can add the value to the business.

[00:21:21] Wayne: [00:21:21] No. Perfect. So I guess from my perspective, what we found is that I was being more and more asked for advice.

[00:21:30] So within my day job, as I said, as I transitioned from, um, lots of newspaper radio. And DM physical advertising to start to get into digital marketing. More and more people would ask for advice because they understood that I was more of an innovator and I was for the businesses and the teams I was working on was on the cutting edge of what was happening.

[00:21:55] Um, one of the interesting things that I. Saw and has helped me [00:22:00] massively is marketing was sometimes back in the day, seen as quite, um, a superficial, um. Element business element. So people would make jokes about it as we colour, we colour things in, we do the pretty pictures and the finance guys and the product development guys.

[00:22:19] They're the guys who drive the business and yeah, I've got a friend of mine in my ear I can imagine now.

[00:22:24] David: [00:22:24] I know exactly who you're talking about. I may have made the jokes about the crayons.

[00:22:32] Wayne: [00:22:32] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what. Um, I found really changed that dynamic is Google and Facebook. And Amazon. So when people then started to realise that Facebook understood everything about you and the data being used on Google, then drove what you then returned in searches.

[00:22:56] And Amazon was then able to provide you from their [00:23:00] massive databanks provides you with marketed solutions for what you require, and people then didn't see it even as intrusive. It's like, okay, I understand that they know all about me, but they're now servicing my need. The role of the marketeer became a lot more.

[00:23:16] Sexy, a lot more relevant, a lot more cutting edge, and that then became a lot easier for marketers like myself to push ourselves forward, to get our voices heard in organisations, which were sales led, and then became more marketing then. So yeah, that's definitely one of the changes that I've seen in um industry and then the environment over the last 10 years.

[00:23:43] Um, in terms of what you were initially talking about in terms of how that change was made, so people were asking a lot of questions. People were saying, social media, I don't really know how to jump in and what channels to get involved in. Um, should I outsource building a website or should I go to Wix and [00:24:00] start trying to do on myself?

[00:24:02] Um, so I understood that there was a need. For specialists out there, and I didn't just want to be a gun for hire consultant who just added a little bit of information there on an hourly basis. I wanted to develop a kind of full service marketing agency so that for startups and entrepreneurs, small business owners who were like, I've got this amazing product and I have no idea how to bring it to market.

[00:24:29] I'm the innovator behind building it, but I don't know what to do with it next. I quite liked that idea and I quite liked using my experiences to help those businesses. Not going to say it's completely altruistic. You've got to pay the bills. But, um, everyone wants to do something in life that they enjoy and I quite enjoy tasks and challenges and logical problem solving. So, um, some clients come in with a Facebook conundrum or they're [00:25:00] looking in terms of the, as you were talking about, their lead funnel is completely dried up due to competitor entering the market. But they've still got the same product they had before and they've dropped their price, but they're still struggling.

[00:25:12] Then I like to help them using marketing strategy and marketing techniques to get back in the game. So yeah, that's definitely how I've come to set up my own agency. And then just finally, um, in terms of how this actually happened, um, as I've mentioned to a few people, I think I've got a piece about it on our actual website.

[00:25:36] Um, it was a conversation in a pub with a friend of a friend who came up to me and asked, and for my advice, he said, a friend that says that you're in, I'm leaving names out of all of you. So.

[00:25:53] A friend of a friend has said that you, you do digital marketing. I've got a really cool invention as an all in one [00:26:00] barbecue. I mean, it literally does everything from being a pizza oven. It's a smoker of fish. It does wok. It does a roast, it even has an internal kettle to make your tea and it's fantastic, but I can barely use WhatsApp.

[00:26:17] So I don't really know how to bring this to market, so I was like, okay, sounds incredibly interesting. I always listen to the client first. That's a hundred percent key. You're not trying to prescribe something to them immediately. You're trying to understand what are their objectives, what are they trying to get?

[00:26:34] What's their problem? So had a couple of conversations with him, was joined by his wife and it seemed like something I'd be quite interested in doing so during some very long weekends cause I'm a NightOwl. Um, I started working on what could be the proposition to bring this to market.

[00:26:54] It quickly then snowballed into a multi channel [00:27:00] marketing launch. His whole thing was he needed to make a certain amount of money, raise a certain amount of money so that he could tool up in China to get this product made. Because I am a digital marketing expert. And, my partner is a public relations expert. We were able to devise with one of our trusted specialists who we still use today and devise a marketing plan and strategy to bring that to market via YouTube, via Facebook, via instagram and via dedicated proper, um, prospect, email campaign to like minded people who would want this barbecue. So playing on the consumer market, but also going further a field and then looking at scout associations and, um, all sorts of outdoor orienteering type organizations here around in the U.S. And then the Far East who would be interested in [00:28:00] this, um, proposition.

[00:28:02] So that specific, um, product launch was what really got me into thinking, actually, I'd like to start doing this for myself as opposed to trying to juggle this as some kind of weekend activity. And that's how we started on the path.

[00:28:20] David: [00:28:20] And, um, so talk, are you able to talk a little bit more about the results of that.

[00:28:25] Wayne: [00:28:25] Yes.

[00:28:26] David: [00:28:26] That campaign. So I think that's really interesting. The fact that it's in multichannel coordinated, um, campaign probably, you know, for a lot of smaller businesses, start-up businesses isn't necessarily something that they, they think of and, maybe, you know, or they try and do it, like you've said before, try and do it themselves.

[00:28:45] It's not as easy as it seems to, to kind of try and coordinate that. Even trying to post on three social media channels in one goes hard work, nevermind create a coordinated campaign approach. So maybe talk to us a bit more [00:29:00] about how you, how you kind of executed that, what it looked like and then kind of some of the results you're able to drive.

[00:29:07] Wayne: [00:29:07] I know you're right, it is sometimes only when you talk about these things, you realise the Herculean challenges that were involved in actually bringing this to launch, considering as I've said, the digital, the inadequacies of the inventor, um, that I literally, with my team, had to do a lot of this ourselves.

[00:29:26] So there's a lot of planning and structure, which goes back to when I was working in the financial services sector, putting in place a plan that says, okay, we're going to do this in six stages. Stage one is what are we going to do? We're going to do a press release telling certain people that we're going to launch this.

[00:29:42] Okay. How do you do a press release? Right? Because my partner's a PR specialist. It was like, okay, you need a contact strategy. You need a little black book, or you need people who you're trying to target and tell them about your service or your product. Okay. Social media is going to be massive, but you then got [00:30:00] to understand what product or service you're selling,  and what market and platform that works on, so everyone knows now you've got everything from TiK Tok to Snapchat, to Instagram, to Facebook, to Twitter, to Reddit to YouTube, to LinkedIn. It's understanding which of those will work for the client. You're trying to sweat every dollar. You're trying to ensure that they're not wasting a thousand pounds going down a particular Avenue.

[00:30:28] Cause one, it impacts badly on you. And perception is about what you're trying to do for them. But also ultimately there is then less money for them to spend on marketing to get it right. So, um, we're quite methodical about the way that we do the planning. There's gotta be some test and learn and AB testing, as we all know, but there's got to be a planning process in place, which you've got to hand hold certain, um, clients through.

[00:30:54] So that is one of the key things that we did. Is the planning process. [00:31:00] Secondly, is skill up the team that you want on that project in the right way. So are you going to need someone to build a website and landing pages? If so, do you get someone in there who is design minded? So it looks aesthetically. Bob on.

[00:31:18] But also you then need the copywriter who can write the copy so that it's got SEO value so that it gets picked up by the right search engine algorithms. So there's a lot of elements behind building a campaign that, as I was saying to you earlier, clients sometimes don't understand when they try and do it all at once.

[00:31:37] So lots of processes, lots of putting people in the right places, putting together a plan and then presenting that plan back to the clients and them going, yeah, okay. I can see where the ROI is in that, because a lot of this marketing and kind of what we've got with the current pandemic is one of the first things that a lot of companies cut is marketing.

[00:32:00] [00:31:59] So you kind of trying to instill in them that it's not about likes and engaging um, comments from your audience. You're trying to generate leads or you're trying to build a lasting sentiment in the mind of the consumer that you are a brand who's credible than a prime that they should use. So there was quite a few elements that we pulled together anyway, as I was saying, you put together the plan, go through the plan with the client, and then we've got that phased approach.

[00:32:28] Here's what we're trying to do at the very beginning. Create some awareness. Okay. When you've created the awareness, what are you trying to do? Then? What are you trying to stimulate your consumer or your audience to? Do you want them to buy? Do you want them to go to a website? Do you want them to just fill out a form for now?

[00:32:45] Do you want them to tell you, tell their friends, or do you want them to come as what this particular activity was, is to go to a crowdfunding insight. What we wanted to do is we wanted to show them how amazing this product was and it's multi functional [00:33:00] capabilities and it's relatively cheap price point for all these things it could do, and then get them to go to the crowdfunding platform and say, I want a bit of that, I'll buy this. That then gave them a bigger pot of money that they would then be able to then use to do the tooling in China.

[00:33:18] So just to round that piece off, we were kind of given a challenge of generating 40,000 U.S. Dollars. Um, so they could do the tooling. The success of the digital marketing campaign that we generated enabled us to raise 250,000 U.S. Dollars in six and a half to eight weeks, and that was for us, that convinced me, one, this is exciting two we know what we're doing on the, we're on the right path. And three, it's quite, um. Good to then get the feedbacks from the clients, obviously, and understandably, this is worked. Can you do more of this? I'm [00:34:00] going to introduce you to a friend who they've got their own business and they are doing X, and then that's how these things can start to snowball.

[00:34:07] And it was quite exciting because we do. We use a professional to make a video, like a free minute video that we would then edit into different, um, editable bite-size consumables and for different channels. And then that would get picked up in random places like Japan or in Sydney. And they would then be talking about it on their blogs or on their Facebook user groups.

[00:34:34] And then we'd be getting back links to our, the client's landing page. Talking about this revolutionary only one barbecue. So obviously that then helps us in our marketing to understand there is a lot of power behind digital marketing. It's instantaneous as well. You can literally put something out there and it's not, it's quite [00:35:00] easy and cliche to say, Oh, something can go viral.

[00:35:02] It's what you want that viral to be. If you get a hundred thousand likes and ultimately you get two orders. It's gone viral, but it hasn't generated anything for you. Ultimately, if you get a hundred thousand orders and you can only service 20 you've got a very disappointed initial customer base and first impressions count and those customers won't come back.

[00:35:25] So it's putting together a very clever and nuanced marketing strategy and in channel tactics to make these things work.

[00:35:34] David: [00:35:34] I think is really interesting because. I think we're conditioned just in our personal lives that likes, likes are the thing, right. And I think that ends up getting carried over a lot of times into, into business.

[00:35:50] And you know, if you are a small business, you're not going to be an expert at everything, is not possible, right? But yet you kind of try and build in your own sales [00:36:00] funnel effectively is the case for, for many people, I think. And I think. Um, utilising the expert skills, like someone like yourself to actually build that strategy.

[00:36:12] What are you trying to achieve? What does the, what is the point of the funnel? Like you just said, is it filling in a form? Is it clicking an order? Is it going on to some other stage is absolutely essential for, for any business. And I think that's probably probably one of the gaps I see. Just in general, you know, when I see advertise a lot of advertising marketing around.

[00:36:34] Not really sure that the, the, the ad that you see matches what, I perceive the call to action to actually be, do you know, um, so it's quite, yeah, quite interesting. I think, um, more people should spend a bit more time thinking about what they actually want that funnel to look like. Any other areas that you see quite consistently?

[00:36:57] With kind of small, medium businesses [00:37:00] where you kind of gone, you've gone kind of gone in and made that, that difference. Does that make sense as a question?

[00:37:08] Wayne: [00:37:08] No, no. It's something that I'm quite passionate about, to be quite honest, is the data. So it's interesting and it's a complete opposite of me not being excited by Excel is.

[00:37:20] Actually understanding the data within your business. They're two completely different things. So I might go into a client who's got Google analytics set up for that website, but they've never looked at it and they wonder why no one is buying or converting on their website and their competitors are eating their lunch.

[00:37:39] So for me to be able to go into Google analytics and look at their visitor numbers, their traffic by day. Um, the bounce rate of people who come and immediately leave, where on the website they actually visit. Um, why are they not going to this page or this portal or his section? [00:38:00] What is the average time on site?

[00:38:02] Oh, you're saying they're only spending 20 seconds on your website, but they used to spend three minutes on your website. Have you not wondered why that might be. If you get into the data or you pay someone to get into the data, all of a sudden things can be a lot easier than pushing that boulder up the hill.

[00:38:20] So that's definitely something that I've found is that people either don't understand or take the time to understand the data. I then send them a few customised WAYSU reports, and you see the scales fall from their eyes as they realise where their customers are, where their prospects. Are going to and how they can convert more of them.

[00:38:42] And again, as a marketeer, that's quite exciting to see them then get back on the phone having received the presentation deck and go, that's amazing. I've seen more in this deck than I've seen, talked about my business from any expert in the last couple of years, and that's because we've gone into, it's not [00:39:00] just Google analytics.

[00:39:01] You can go into Google ad words and see what kind of ads they were um, previously, um, doing paid ads for, or even just going into their Instagram business account and seeing exactly what people are doing, what the demographics are of their Instagram base, um, what was getting, not just as many likes, but getting more impressions and then having them understand that, okay.

[00:39:27] Right. So that post did got 17 times more impressions than this one. How could that be? And then you start looking at the hashtags. You start looking at the words that they were using in the post. You start looking at, well, that's when you started using video clips as opposed to just static images.

[00:39:46] So yeah. It's all about the data. And that's one of the things that digital market and brings you. So not like with radio or newspaper advertising. It's quite hard to justify the [00:40:00] ROI sometimes, especially initially, but with digital marketing. It's where they can literally see what WAYSU is doing, they can see the money that WAYSU is spending for them, YouTube or Facebook or, um, through LinkedIn.

[00:40:16] And then they can see where their ROI is and where their cost per lead is.

[00:40:21] David: [00:40:21] And that's the, I think the interesting thing with digital is if you know what you're doing, you can save a fortune. And if you don't, you can definitely spend a fortune and end up with uh, no results. Right? Cause you know, an advert that doesn't actually have a clear call to action or it's not clear what the product is or the service is, or you've hit the wrong people.

[00:40:44] You ha, you know, the amount of the, the thing with Facebook and advertising in those kinds of platforms, very powerful if you know what you're doing. But a minefield, I think if you don't.

[00:40:56] Wayne: [00:40:56] Yeah. And unfortunately, um, [00:41:00] I was working with someone who thought they were helping by spending some of their own money as we were just starting to understand what they needed and what channels we were going to operate for in them.

[00:41:16] They started spending their own money trying to boost their own posts, and they spent a lot of money, unfortunately, and wasted a lot of money. Getting a hell of a lot of likes and a hell of a lot of engagement from people saying, this looks really cool, but it was not generating any form submissions, which is ultimately what they wanted.

[00:41:38] And that goes back to what I was originally saying that then harms the campaign, because if there's money being wasted, there's less money to spend in getting it right. Um, and then just just on that bit, cause you, you mentioned an interesting bit about them not knowing sometimes, um, at my old company Yell, one of the, one of the key things [00:42:00] was, is kind of, we do a certain job so that you can do your job.

[00:42:04] So for example, one of the analogies used was. We take care of the digital marketing so you can go up the ladder and fix people's roofs. It's that kind of philosophy that works really well as in, let us do our job. It's all very transparent because it's digital marketing, but let us do our jobs. Let us guide you along the way.

[00:42:28] We'll listen, we'll understand what you're trying to achieve, but then let us crack on and show you the results. Some of these results are not instantaneous. You can't just generate from zero to a hundred miles an hour in some channels. But we can show you the proof points that work and we can give you some nice little quick wins along the way.

[00:42:49] Because every website that I've looked at needs some form of optimisation. I mean literally we could together the three of us look at 10 websites now and we'd find different [00:43:00] things where we go, well, on mobile that looks ghastly on an Android, or I look at that on an iPhone and I don't really understand that.

[00:43:08] Or why is it seven clicks to do that way instead of two clicks, or I wouldn't really click on that website because they don't appear to have that little um lock at the top, which is the SSL certificate. They don't really have that. So I wouldn't really put my credit card details in there.

[00:43:24] So there were lots of elements that business owners, when they've got websites need to be doing to evolve and bring their website and their marketing to some extent into the current, um, environment.

[00:43:41] David: [00:43:41] And so probably brings us on to, if anyone wants to find you, where do they track you down Wayne?

[00:43:50] Wayne: [00:43:50] No. So, um, so obviously we are available at waysu.co.uk. Whiskey alpha Yankee, [00:44:00] Susie. Umbrella dot co dot UK, sometimes people spell it with a Z. So um, yeah, I just emphasise that. And we're also on all the available social channels. Um, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. Um, and I can be contacted on the phone as well on 0118 44992524.

[00:44:24] And what I always like to do is I'm happy to have a chat with anyone who is a business owner, or a startup. Understand a little bit about what they do from a market perspective. Then taking a phased approach with them, as in what do you need first? Everyone wants to generate more money first, but I'm trying to get some of those steps in place because maybe your website is really, really old.

[00:44:51] Or maybe you're just about to launch a product and you need to set those different channels up, or it might just be that the [00:45:00] competition is out there is really fierce. You've now been hit, right? A pandemic. So what are you going to be doing to differentiate and stand out in the market? So using lots of different elements to just come back to them with a two pronged approach. One, how can they make some money quickly? But two, how can we underpin it with some medium to long term principles, which will help them going forward over the next five to 10 years? People now understand even more than ever that they got to be in the digital space. People are spending a hell of a lot more time online at this moment in time on their phones.

[00:45:38] Glued to them, sat at home, bored when they're not on Netflix and on their laptop searching for whatever when they're not on Amazon. So it's been, it's taking your business in front of that now expanded audience and giving them something that elevates you above your competitors. So yeah, it's been beneficial in some [00:46:00] respects because you get a lot more inquiries and it's just how you convert those inquiries by providing sensible, rational plans.

[00:46:11] David: [00:46:11] And, um, you've obviously been used to work in, uh, remotely for quite a while anyway. So I guess, has there been much change for you in the way you operate? Fewer face to face, I suppose, but is there a fair amount of your, your client interaction I assume has been fairly remote anyway?

[00:46:32] Wayne: [00:46:32] Um yeah. As you've just said? Quite rightly, said. We've been quite lucky in the respect that I work from home permanently anyway, so we have an office here in our extended, um, house, which works really, really well for us. It gives me an enclosed space to crack on. Actually I have hosted clients here before cause we've got a massive screen and a technical, um, area here so I can take them through the presentations and we can go [00:47:00] through what competitors do on youTube. So it's all, it's all really good. But there's been less of those meetings due to the lockdown and my client meetings. Zoom has been absolutely invaluable. I was using it long before the um influx of new people to the platform, so that's been really great for me.

[00:47:19] Um, so yeah, nothing much has changed. We've obviously got, um, two children who are at home at the moment, so that creates it's own challenges. But less though, less so than for a lot of parents, because obviously we've done this before and because my partner works part time, she's able to help out in a lot more hands on manner that some people.

[00:47:43] David: [00:47:43] Quite fortunate in that regard.

[00:47:44]Wayne: [00:47:44] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:47:46] David: [00:47:46] It's been really interesting. Um, and thank you very much for giving up your time to share your story. I think, um, sharing the path that you've taken and some of the decisions that you've taken, and then [00:48:00] really sharing how each of those different roles have added skills to the bow that of may got you to a place where you're then able to set up on your own, I think is really helpful for, for anybody who is also, you know, following that path or at some point is thinking, I'd really love to go and do something for myself. And also, you know, obviously sharing the experience with WAYSU, it's itself and the skills that you can bring. And I'd highly recommend people, anyone listening now who's thinking we need a, we need to come up with a plan to get customers through the door, and particularly at a time like this, right. I think you touched on earlier. The first thing that a lot of places a lot of companies will cut is marketing spend.

[00:48:46] Wayne: [00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:47] David: [00:48:47] But if anything, you probably, that's probably where you need to maintain spend.

[00:48:51] You need to keep busy. It's very competitive, and there's lots of, you just touched on eyes on screens. It's a lot of flicking through, so you've got to, you've got to [00:49:00] come up with something that's meaningful and stand out. That's gonna make sure that actually this, this situation doesn't make a bad situation worse, because you're not playing in the game.

[00:49:10] Wayne: [00:49:10] Yeah. No. First of all, thank you for having me. I quite enjoyed um talking to you and Steve about what we do and just giving it a little bit of flavour about what digital marketing is and what it can be, um, in the market place. And yeah, as I was explaining before, I'm always open to a call to anyone who wants to discuss their existing marketing or how to take their marketing to the next level.

[00:49:38] And obviously we are a public relations agency as well. So also around content, contact strategies, content creation, um, press releases and all that kind of intrinsic um communication, focus strategy elements. We're really, really happy [00:50:00] to speak to businesses and individuals about that as well. I think that was one of the things that I want to get across from this is it's all about communication.

[00:50:09] Some people have got some fantastic ideas, but don't know how to execute them. It doesn't have to be as expensive or as, as painful or time consuming as you think. Sometimes it's literally about literally visiting the website. Uh. Dropping in inquiry, you'll actually see on our website, we've got, um, our products as a section, and then you can actually see, um, some of the case studies and some of the work that we've done with clients.

[00:50:39] Um, sorry, our work, you'll see that there's quite a few of the case studies and digital marketing activities and campaigns that we've done. So it kind of brings it to life for quite a few of the people that I've spoken to recently, when they actually go and have a look at our work on the website, they go, okay, so that's what you did for the [00:51:00] crowdfunding company.

[00:51:00] Okay. So that's how you would do a Facebook sponsored advertising campaign, which isn't just a couple of posts. This is what you would do in the space of developing an integrated marketing campaign across various channels, and it kind of brings it to life, Dave. So yeah, I would recommend having a look at our website and giving us a call.

[00:51:22] David: [00:51:22] Definitely. We've got links to your site and all of your social channels on our website. So if anyone watching this or listening to this wants to find you easily, we've got all of the links that they'll need.

[00:51:35]Wayne: [00:51:35] Perfect. Appreciate that.

[00:51:37] David: [00:51:37] Amazing. Cheers for your time Wayne.

[00:51:38] Wayne: [00:51:38] You too.

[00:51:40] David: [00:51:40] Bye

[00:51:41] Wayne: [00:51:41] Bye. [00:52:00]