Dolly Chugh is an award-winning associate professor and social psychologist at the Stern School of Business at New York University. Her research focuses on the “psychology of good people”. How and why most of us, however well-intended, are still prone to race and gender bias, as well as what she calls “bounded ethicality.”
Dolly sits down with Kurt and Tim on this episode, to talk about the concept of “good-ish” which is a central theme to her book The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe. Psychology and neuroscience have proven that our minds do things on autopilot. These shortcuts (or heuristics) are laden with unconscious biases, which are juxtaposed to our self identity as a “good” person; one that isn’t racist, sexist or homophobic. Dolly believes we should set a higher standard for ourselves by being good-ish people. By implementing a Growth Mindset, a concept pioneered by Carol Dweck, we don’t hang on too tightly to our identity. We learn to change, and to be taught and to grow.
In our conversation with Dolly we learn about her beautiful analogy of headwinds and tailwinds that describe the invisible biases and systemic issues that many people in our world face. She explains the “Hmmm Framework” that she came up with after the January 6th Attack on the Capitol. And, of course, we discuss music and how Dolly incorporates it into her teaching and her writing.
In our focused Grooving Session, Tim and Kurt extract the meaningful ways that we can apply Dolly’s work into our everyday lives. We summarize the key parts of our interview with her and how we can each challenge ourselves to find our good-ish groove!
What You Will Learn from Dolly Chugh(2:41) Speed round questions
(4:12) What is the difference between good and good-ish?
(9:09) Why is a growth mindset so difficult?
(12:28) Why we should integrate psychology more into our educational and political systems
(15:48) How systemic racism and unconscious bias are related
(29:12) Hmmm Framework and thought experiments
(34:04) How do we discover our own blind spots?
(38:58) How Dolly incorporates music into her teaching and writing
(43:21) Applications from our interview with Dolly in our Grooving Session:
© 2021 Behavioral Grooves
LinksDolly Chugh: http://www.dollychugh.com/about-dolly
Dolly Chugh, The Person You Mean to Be: How Good People Fight Bias https://amzn.to/35tGwMe
Carol Dweck, Mindset, The New Psychology of Success https://amzn.to/3wDv10I
Episode 196: Living Happier By Making the World Better with Max Bazerman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/living-happier-by-making-the-world-better-with-max-bazerman/
Mahzarin Banaji https://psychology.fas.harvard.edu/people/mahzarin-r-banaji
Molly Kern https://www.molly-kern.com/
Happy Days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee0gziqT2Yk&ab_channel=ChiefScheiderChiefScheider
Grey’s Anatomy https://youtu.be/dSGLObjyFvA
Steve Martin and Nuala Walsh, Episode 209: GAABS and Improving the Future for Every Applied Behavioral Scientist https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/improving-the-future-for-every-applied-behavioral-scientist/
Katy Milkman, How to Change https://amzn.to/3wDZHzc
Confronting the legacy of housing discrimination https://www.cbs.com/shows/cbs_this_morning/video/vLnaRgBIed_ph_NxZa2ZaivfdC_FeD1f/white-americans-confront-legacy-of-housing-discrimination/
Harvard Implicit Association Test https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/
Alec Lacamoire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Lacamoire
Lake Wobegon Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wobegon
Episode 214: Observing the Non-Obvious: How to Spot Trends Around You with Rohit Bhargava https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/the-non-obvious-rohit-bhargava/
Musical LinksHamilton “Alexander Hamilton” https://youtu.be/VhinPd5RRJw
In the Heights “Blackout” https://youtu.be/T0V2cCjf1Tk
Something Rotten! “A Musical” https://youtu.be/1KFNcy9VjQI
Bruno Mars “The Lazy Song” https://youtu.be/fLexgOxsZu0
38 Special “Hold On Loosely” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtf7R_oVaw
Buffalo Springfield “For What It’s Worth” https://youtu.be/80_39eAx3z8
The Surprising Benefits of Talking to Strangers | Nick Epley [Republish]
Ask the Right Question, Get the Best Answer | Jeff Wetzler
Break Autopilot with Intentional Living | Norman Farb and Zindel Segal
The Secret Power of Rituals | Michael Norton
The Science of Influence: Nudges in Action | Silvia Saccardo
Unlock Workplace Happiness | Gonzalo Camiña Ceballos
Tuned In or Tuned Out? | Nuala Walsh
The Burnout Breakthrough | Kandi Wiens
Turning Anxiety into Assurance | Dr. Julia DiGangi
Grooving on: Starting a Movement
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...Ridiculous Ep. 3: Children of Unlikely Parents
...Ridiculous Ep. 2: Importing Psychology
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Make Great Decisions | Elspeth Kirkman
Trailer: They Thought We Were Ridiculous
Unlocking Intimacy: The Power of Questions | Topaz Adizes
The Key to Boosting Retirement Savings | John Beshears
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